Someone who plays NW go find out how they worked this over there. Because now there's a possibility we can get a solution (or at least a temporary fix) for the AFK problem over here.
You're missing an important piece of what Bluegeek pointed out - this doesn't solve the underlying problem nor will it curb the AFK/leeching behavior. You may not get teamed with a leecher you put on ignore, but the next person will and that leecher still gets a reward.
And it will take time for the leechers to run out of people to leech off of. Sure it is a slow solution but it is better than what we have now. Once the afk and leech crowd find only themselves and like people to play with they will get the message.
If someone is legitimately trying (undergeared or not) they should never be punished for it.
The people that run around shooting balloons or making sure the officers die in ground infected are the ones that TRIBBLE me off.
AFKers too, I never actually understood why they do it. Mine trap is a hot bed of it, too. You get more mark the more you do, so why sit afk? It just drags everyone else down, and youd benefit more in the long run by actually assisting and raising everyones pool at the end, including yours.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I agree it could be abused, but on the other hand I would not mind if people put me on their ignore list just because I made a stupid mistake, for example borg stfs when we blow the probes to early by mistake and some jerk just freaks out, and most of the time leaves the game leaving only four players I would not playing with that hot head any more, see it can go both ways.
one way to solve that would be each player would have to do so much dps damage and I they don't they do not get any credit for the game, so all of those people who just stand there like colony invasion for example, would have no reason to que for games if they do not participate.
Saw him the other day. It seems the 77th Elite Squadron isn't so much elite as they are AFK. I'm half inclined to track down their guild leader and start harassing them about it, but I suspect they don't care.
You never know. I'm an officer in a large fleet and we have no real way of monitoring the behavior of 450 people every day. But every so often we'll get a mail that so-and-so is trolling on Drozana and they'll get whatever punishment they're due.
And until that happens, the leechers and AFKers still get rewarded for doing nothing. It's not solving the underlying problem. Removing the reward for non-participators (as it would seem they have done for PvP in NW) is immediate.
Perhaps this forum is getting attention behind closed doors. The NW team made what appears to be the first move. I too wish there was a way to remove rewards from the leechers and afkers the only legit way to do it would to be to have a moderator available 24-7 to handle just this sort of complaint like Disney does. So I guess we will have to wait and see what type of system comes out of this.
Perhaps we could use a Infraction System get reported you get a infraction.
This thread isn't about getting Cryptic to fix a problem, it's about giving more power to neckbeards in-game so they can wield more virtual muscle and address/not address w/e qualms or imagined problems they perceive to have. We've heard this all before.
This. A big +1.
In any case, such a system would turn STO into an elitist members-only club of "dude-bros" and power gamers/virtual munchkins. New players would lose a lot of opportunities to learn from their mistakes and learn from others. To hell with that.
This game is called a MMO for a reason. If one does not like it, they should go back to Call of Duty. Simple as that.
one way to solve that would be each player would have to do so much dps damage and I they don't they do not get any credit for the game, so all of those people who just stand there like colony invasion for example, would have no reason to que for games if they do not participate.
Sorry, I'll have to side with the opposition on this one. Eng/Sci Healers and CC types don't directly contribute to DPS but they do have a beneficial effect. So DPS can't be the only factor.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Perhaps this forum is getting attention behind closed doors. The NW team made what appears to be the first move. I too wish there was a way to remove rewards from the leechers and afkers the only legit way to do it would to be to have a moderator available 24-7 to handle just this sort of complaint like Disney does. So I guess we will have to wait and see what type of system comes out of this.
Perhaps we could use a Infraction System get reported you get a infraction.
5 Infractions 24 hr ban from PvP and PVE queques
10 Infractions 72 Hrs
20 Infractions 1 week suspension from all play.
40 lifetime ban.
Oh Galaxy, no. That WOULD be abused. Can you imagine people getting lifetime bans solely on the word of other players?
The backlash would be of Q-like proportions.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Oh Galaxy, no. That WOULD be abused. Can you imagine people getting lifetime bans solely on the word of other players?
The backlash would be of Q-like proportions.
It is my understanding that there is a way to look and see what damage/healing was done in a STF/PvP. All it would take is for a Moderator to go back and check before handing down an infraction. That seems simple enough.
Besides the fact that that is waay too easy to abuse, Cryptic would NEVER, EVER, put social restrictive elements into one of their games. Taking away social interaction <on any level> not only is counter-productive to the whole "social media experience", but it is also just plain bad business.
In an MMO you need to maximize the amount of social interaction, this is one of the most direct factors determining mmorpg's success. Its kinda like MMO 101. So, sorry but, not gonna happen.
It is my understanding that there is a way to look and see what damage/healing was done in a STF/PvP. All it would take is for a Moderator to go back and check before handing down an infraction. That seems simple enough.
You're basically describing something like "Report to GM", aren't you? And that doesn't seem to be working, does it?
I think it's probably a question of scale. Before human beings at PWE can get involved in making a decision about specific incidents, there needs to be some kind of winnowing process that gets the numbers down to a manageable level. They could maybe hire more GM's, but I'm not sure they can hire enough of them to do the job.
Now maybe if there was a live data collection process that basically did something like this, it might be feasible and fair:
1. A report was filed about user X.
2. Was the report about AFK/leeching?
2A. If no - process report normally
2. Was user X in a team scenario near the time of the report?
2A. If no - process report normally
3. Was user X AFK for at least y minutes during the scenario?
3A. If yes - Does X have an AFK warning or infraction on his account?
3A1. If no - issue a warning
3A2. If yes - issue an infraction [X can dispute offline]
4. Did user X participate during the scenario (defined by some reasonable formula)?
4A. If yes - dismiss report
4B. If no - Does X have a Non-Participation warning or infraction on his account?
4B1. If no - issue a warning
4B2. If yes - issue an infraction [X can dispute offline]
But wouldn't be easier all the way around if they just took away rewards for non-participation according to some appropriate formula? Kind of like they took away inappropriate rewards for the Foundry.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
We have all been there either in a STF or a PvP. Everybody but one person is pulling thier weight. This person is usually underequipped or inexperienced or just there to farm the reward. Finally I got sick and tired of these types of people and I have devised a simple but elegant solution.
ATTENTION DEVS:
We need to use the ignore list from chat zone to effectively keep people from teaming up. Example: I get teamed up with John Doe, he goes AFK or does some stupid thing like deliberately aggroing enemies. I simply add him to the ignore list, then from now on I can no longer be teamed up with him in a PvP or STF pick up group. This would cut down on a huge number of complaints about behavior and give some relief to players who have the bad luck of being teamed with these AFK'ers. It would be as simple as a few lines of code written into the ignore command. This way these guys will find it harder and harder to do these events because people have blocked them from teaming up. They will eventually change thier behavior or it will take them longer to find a team they haven't made angry. This puts real consequences and accountability back into the game. You TRIBBLE up you suffer the consequences not the other players who got stuck with you. You have one chance to do the right thing use it wisely....
I apologize as I have not read the whole thread before making these comments. I just had to reply.
OK! We do not live in a world where we have to live up to someone else's standards for video game etiquette. I for one live a casual life playing a casual game. Many of those people I play with in my fleet are the same way. I do not expect the same from everyone else though. Many of us have kids and lives and get interrupted often. I try to be respectful of not going AFK etc. But sometimes you go to do something you think will take a minute takes minutes or hours. This is reality! I am not saying this is the norm. I am saying we all go AFK a little or a lot! There can be no penalty for doing this. I don't want no thought police or time limit limiting my access to open ques etc. I have certain thing I do in game to help the team if someone is AFK. One thing I do is send a private message to the person that may not be there. This is very respectful because if you degrade them in open channel they will not take kindly to being embarrassed and called out in public. Also if someone is AFK for whatever reason I try to lead or follow the group and help out the mission while we are short handed. Also if IMO the group is way under powered and the mission will take 45 min or more. I just tell the group to just stop and let the mission fail. Because I don't want to reward someone if they are going AFK on purpose. And the mission ends much faster if the mission fails faster. No purpose is served by teaking two hours to finish an STF. My average time for a PUG is about 12min.
What bothers me is the ppl that can't seem to understand that some times things happen without notice, and because of this some ppl just have to go afk for a few mins, this actually just happened to me in Vault Ensnared, I was doing my usual going around taking out the tholian web makers and midway through I had someone come to the door.
Kind of hard to just sit and not answer the door, so I went and answered it, told the team *brb* an by the time I got back the rest of the team had finished the mission and 1 of the other players smarts off at me with *if you going brb why did you even start - should report you*
This to me is just trolling, there is a difference between an actual afker that starts off afk and someone who actually helps out an then midway something comes up an they need to go deal with what ever came up.
I will start adding them to ignore list.
another way is report them tight click on joh doe you will see report to gm
if that player gets enough reports for afk john doe will be banned
You take your chance with a PUG, whether it's elite or not. If you want to control who you team is, go private. Maybe a box you check that says... I'm an elite STF player. Then only these players would cobble together and ban each other... Also, maybe you could get a halo on top of your ship if you've banned more than 5 players lifetime. Don't get me wrong, you get all kinds of peeps in the elite games that don't know what they are doing and many of them are flying Romulan ships around lately... it can be frustrating, but we already have the tools at hand to control who we run an STF with and playing with hardcore players who shout at you because you are dive bombing (and blowing up) Donata when she's only got 12 percent health because you are within 5 km of her are the other end of the spectrum and as much fun to put up with as the true AFK player; there is no telling which Captain of which faction is going to show up at an STF - no guarantee that they are going to run the perfect STF plan per your expectation. If you want it a little more militant, get together with the like-minded and play STF with others who feel the same as you do.
Just like the thread says. I'm sick of earning free marks for afk players in Vault Ensnared and Azure Nebula while I try to grind out Nukara rep.
Because of the leaver penalty, I have the dubious choice of fighting at a disadvantage to win free marks for leeches, or leaving the group and being penalized with a cooldown.
Why is there a penalty for leaving a group but no penalty for cheating your group by not playing?
yeh i hate the leeches as well...nothing to do but leave or finish the round get your points and go. i wish we could say the names of these leechers...maybe start a list of shame or something but im sure you cant...gotta protect the leechers and TRIBBLE the legit players...
I report every AFKer in AZ and Vault but as OP says its become such a greater problem than I've ever noticed before.
Cryptic ... Please work on a solution for this. These are battle missions where multiple combinations of ASDW and mouse clicks are necessary.
How hard is it to code some monitoring agent that if these combos aren't seen in a 60sec window, the player gets a 10 sec warning before being dropped? And I'm talking combinations of various key/mouse uses ... not some one off key strike to imply action where there really isn't any.
You play STO too. This doesn't just drive you nuts?
Perhaps something should be considered to detect a player's idle status in PvE's. If no action is taken by the player in the first minute, a warning message will be displayed. And after the second minute the player would be removed, and the first in line in the queue will be immediately added to take his place.
Two minutes may be a long time for a PvE, and STF especially, but one must still give a fair chance, in case of situations of unintentional AFK's, like phone calls, emergency bathroom runs, or Mom calling for you to take the trash out immediately (reference GalaxyQuest :P)
Another possible idea, should this removal idea be unworkable, or bug-inducing... something simpler, where if a player reads as idle for a set amount of time, the leaver penalty would be cancelled... but there is the possibility of abuse and exploit with this one, I fear.
Comments
They just did this in NW last night:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?243972-Patch-Notes-NW-1-20130416a-23&p=3193252&viewfull=1#post3193252
Someone who plays NW go find out how they worked this over there. Because now there's a possibility we can get a solution (or at least a temporary fix) for the AFK problem over here.
Mine Trap Supporter
And it will take time for the leechers to run out of people to leech off of. Sure it is a slow solution but it is better than what we have now. Once the afk and leech crowd find only themselves and like people to play with they will get the message.
The people that run around shooting balloons or making sure the officers die in ground infected are the ones that TRIBBLE me off.
AFKers too, I never actually understood why they do it. Mine trap is a hot bed of it, too. You get more mark the more you do, so why sit afk? It just drags everyone else down, and youd benefit more in the long run by actually assisting and raising everyones pool at the end, including yours.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
so if someone sits afk they get nadda.
and the more u put into a fight.missions.event. the bigger ur reward is
i think this system is best to aviod afkers. since afk = no rewards
best players = highest reward. its win win
You never know. I'm an officer in a large fleet and we have no real way of monitoring the behavior of 450 people every day. But every so often we'll get a mail that so-and-so is trolling on Drozana and they'll get whatever punishment they're due.
The worst that can happen is nothing.
Perhaps this forum is getting attention behind closed doors. The NW team made what appears to be the first move. I too wish there was a way to remove rewards from the leechers and afkers the only legit way to do it would to be to have a moderator available 24-7 to handle just this sort of complaint like Disney does. So I guess we will have to wait and see what type of system comes out of this.
Perhaps we could use a Infraction System get reported you get a infraction.
5 Infractions 24 hr ban from PvP and PVE queques
10 Infractions 72 Hrs
20 Infractions 1 week suspension from all play.
40 lifetime ban.
This. A big +1.
In any case, such a system would turn STO into an elitist members-only club of "dude-bros" and power gamers/virtual munchkins. New players would lose a lot of opportunities to learn from their mistakes and learn from others. To hell with that.
This game is called a MMO for a reason. If one does not like it, they should go back to Call of Duty. Simple as that.
Sorry, I'll have to side with the opposition on this one. Eng/Sci Healers and CC types don't directly contribute to DPS but they do have a beneficial effect. So DPS can't be the only factor.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Oh Galaxy, no. That WOULD be abused. Can you imagine people getting lifetime bans solely on the word of other players?
The backlash would be of Q-like proportions.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
It is my understanding that there is a way to look and see what damage/healing was done in a STF/PvP. All it would take is for a Moderator to go back and check before handing down an infraction. That seems simple enough.
In an MMO you need to maximize the amount of social interaction, this is one of the most direct factors determining mmorpg's success. Its kinda like MMO 101. So, sorry but, not gonna happen.
Ever.
Yeah, that's right.
You're basically describing something like "Report to GM", aren't you? And that doesn't seem to be working, does it?
I think it's probably a question of scale. Before human beings at PWE can get involved in making a decision about specific incidents, there needs to be some kind of winnowing process that gets the numbers down to a manageable level. They could maybe hire more GM's, but I'm not sure they can hire enough of them to do the job.
Now maybe if there was a live data collection process that basically did something like this, it might be feasible and fair:
1. A report was filed about user X.
2. Was the report about AFK/leeching?
2A. If no - process report normally
2. Was user X in a team scenario near the time of the report?
2A. If no - process report normally
3. Was user X AFK for at least y minutes during the scenario?
3A. If yes - Does X have an AFK warning or infraction on his account?
3A1. If no - issue a warning
3A2. If yes - issue an infraction [X can dispute offline]
4. Did user X participate during the scenario (defined by some reasonable formula)?
4A. If yes - dismiss report
4B. If no - Does X have a Non-Participation warning or infraction on his account?
4B1. If no - issue a warning
4B2. If yes - issue an infraction [X can dispute offline]
But wouldn't be easier all the way around if they just took away rewards for non-participation according to some appropriate formula? Kind of like they took away inappropriate rewards for the Foundry.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I apologize as I have not read the whole thread before making these comments. I just had to reply.
OK! We do not live in a world where we have to live up to someone else's standards for video game etiquette. I for one live a casual life playing a casual game. Many of those people I play with in my fleet are the same way. I do not expect the same from everyone else though. Many of us have kids and lives and get interrupted often. I try to be respectful of not going AFK etc. But sometimes you go to do something you think will take a minute takes minutes or hours. This is reality! I am not saying this is the norm. I am saying we all go AFK a little or a lot! There can be no penalty for doing this. I don't want no thought police or time limit limiting my access to open ques etc. I have certain thing I do in game to help the team if someone is AFK. One thing I do is send a private message to the person that may not be there. This is very respectful because if you degrade them in open channel they will not take kindly to being embarrassed and called out in public. Also if someone is AFK for whatever reason I try to lead or follow the group and help out the mission while we are short handed. Also if IMO the group is way under powered and the mission will take 45 min or more. I just tell the group to just stop and let the mission fail. Because I don't want to reward someone if they are going AFK on purpose. And the mission ends much faster if the mission fails faster. No purpose is served by teaking two hours to finish an STF. My average time for a PUG is about 12min.
The idea where you vote to leave the stf is the best of the bunch imo.
Kind of hard to just sit and not answer the door, so I went and answered it, told the team *brb* an by the time I got back the rest of the team had finished the mission and 1 of the other players smarts off at me with *if you going brb why did you even start - should report you*
This to me is just trolling, there is a difference between an actual afker that starts off afk and someone who actually helps out an then midway something comes up an they need to go deal with what ever came up.
another way is report them tight click on joh doe you will see report to gm
if that player gets enough reports for afk john doe will be banned
a couple of maps are already this way, should make them all like that
Because of the leaver penalty, I have the dubious choice of fighting at a disadvantage to win free marks for leeches, or leaving the group and being penalized with a cooldown.
Why is there a penalty for leaving a group but no penalty for cheating your group by not playing?
I report every AFKer in AZ and Vault but as OP says its become such a greater problem than I've ever noticed before.
Cryptic ... Please work on a solution for this. These are battle missions where multiple combinations of ASDW and mouse clicks are necessary.
How hard is it to code some monitoring agent that if these combos aren't seen in a 60sec window, the player gets a 10 sec warning before being dropped? And I'm talking combinations of various key/mouse uses ... not some one off key strike to imply action where there really isn't any.
You play STO too. This doesn't just drive you nuts?
Two minutes may be a long time for a PvE, and STF especially, but one must still give a fair chance, in case of situations of unintentional AFK's, like phone calls, emergency bathroom runs, or Mom calling for you to take the trash out immediately (reference GalaxyQuest :P)
Another possible idea, should this removal idea be unworkable, or bug-inducing... something simpler, where if a player reads as idle for a set amount of time, the leaver penalty would be cancelled... but there is the possibility of abuse and exploit with this one, I fear.
this reason is why I go for the first idea, of player removal after so long of idle time, replacing with someone active in the queue
it was understandable at first to consider the possibilities but
to many people are doing it for way to long to be a bug or
something.
starting to wonder if the afkers are gold bot sellers.