would you let fleas go unchecked in you home or would you set their and watch them multiply? these leecher are no different and with players and a dev that dont seem to care that is what will happen
You do the smart things in taking care of fleas.
First you keep the pets outside until after you've bathed them. You also fumigate the house and vacuum the carpet/floors/furniture, etc etc etc.
Getting people to play THEIR game YOUR way is a whole different issue.
Normally, you control you. But as is clearly evident here from a lot of the postings, the AFKers are controlling a lot of you players with the situation in the instances.
Every single time that you queue up with an AFKer then stick around to play out the match while being mad at them, they win.
Every single time that you come here to the forums and complain, they win.
At any point when you finally realize this and take responsibility for your own gaming and choose to exercise your options by playing with people that you can count on, the AFKers lose. And they don't have anyone to leech off of. And they don't get any attention in-game or on the forums. See how easy that is?
I don't see any victims here. Just enablers that keep allowing someone else to dictate how well they enjoy STO.
ppl talk about how i should take some responsibility but i think that door goes both ways
i mean i give good somes of money at times to this game and this is the game behavior that is more or less tolerated by some players and they say i should fell the same way to
I don't see why they can't just add a voting option, if 3 or more people vote yes to kick person form the team, then goodbye slacker, hello replacement.
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one." ~Spock
I don't see why they can't just add a voting option, if 3 or more people vote yes to kick person form the team, then goodbye slacker, hello replacement.
"Hey guys, you know what will be funny? Instead of leeching off these poor rubes, let's let them get ALMOST done with the mission, then boot them right before the end, so they get no rewards, and are on CD for the mission! Man, I'm super glad they added this vote option!"
So, yeah, no, I don't think a vote is a good idea.
"Hey guys, you know what will be funny? Instead of leeching off these poor rubes, let's let them get ALMOST done with the mission, then boot them right before the end, so they get no rewards, and are on CD for the mission! Man, I'm super glad they added this vote option!"
So, yeah, no, I don't think a vote is a good idea.
All the more reason in that scenario to have pre-formed a full team you can trust. Which you can do now...
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
I shouldn't have let myself get back into that. See that folks? Taking personal responsibility. I really am out this time. Seriously though, there is no possible universe in which this vote/kick thing would not be abused. That's just basic human sociology
"Hey guys, you know what will be funny? Instead of leeching off these poor rubes, let's let them get ALMOST done with the mission, then boot them right before the end, so they get no rewards, and are on CD for the mission! Man, I'm super glad they added this vote option!"
So, yeah, no, I don't think a vote is a good idea.
Your example is nonsense.
The act of leeching requires only the leecher to do it.
The act of vote kicking requires 3 other people to do it.
Who is the leecher talking to in your example when he says "Hey guys..." and "Instead of leeching off these poor rubes..."?
You seem to have overlooked that anyone can team with 2 friends with the express intent of abusing the system.
I didn't overlook anything. On the otherhand, you seem to have overlooked that a leecher can abuse the current system without help from other leechers.
Again, i'm going to repeat this one more time:
The act of leeching requires only the leecher to do it.
The act of vote kicking requires 3 other people to do it.
I didn't overlook anything. On the otherhand, you seem to have overlooked that a leecher can abuse the current system without help from other leechers.
Again, i'm going to repeat this one more time:
The act of leeching requires only the leecher to do it.
The act of vote kicking requires 3 other people to do it.
They can't do that if you preform your team. how are you not getting this?
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
I said i'll only repeat it once more, so read my reply above.
I believe I was very specific when I said 3 people can team in advance with the intent of abuse. Does it need to be more specific than that? This is just a tired issue that is only going in circles because you guys just restate the same defeated points over and over.
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
I believe I was very specific when I said 3 people can team in advance with the intent of abuse. Does it need to be more specific than that? This is just a tired issue that is only going in circles because you guys just restate the same defeated points over and over.
1 person abuses 4.
4 people abuse 1.
Which of these causes "more abuse"? "How are you not getting this?" :rolleyes:
Which of these causes "more abuse"? "How are you not getting this?" :rolleyes:
The 1 person abuses 4 is an argument that has been answered dozens, if not hundreds of time in this thread. You just don't like that that's extra work for you? Don't want to be patient and pre-form a team? What is your specific problem with preforming a team vs creating a system that doesn't need to be created if you would just entertain logic for 30 seconds.
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
The act of leeching requires only the leecher to do it.
The act of vote kicking requires 3 other people to do it.
Who is the leecher talking to in your example when he says "Hey guys..." and "Instead of leeching off these poor rubes..."?
Sorry, I thought it was totally clear. I typically run STFs with some fleet-mates. A partial pre-made, basically. Say there are three of us, and we decide (over teamspeak, or fleet chat, so the other two players don't hear) to grief the other two players by booting them right before the mission ends, so they did basically all the work, but got none of the rewards. That is a stupid system. Just because you or I won't take advantage of it, doesn't mean others can't.
Beyond which, a vote system quickly becomes a coercive tool used to enforce "proper" play on anyone who is perceived to be having wrongbadfun. Show up in a cruiser or sci ship? Gone. Mess up the 10% rule? Gone. Have a character or ship name I don't like? Gone. etc.
If leechers really bother you, you have a few options. You can send them a tell to let them know you will report them. You can report them. You can leave the mission. You can choose to not let it bother you, especially if you are going to finish the mission and get the optional anyway. Finally, you can choose to build a network of friends you can trust to play with, instead of pugging.
The 1 person abuses 4 is an argument that has been answered dozens, if not hundreds of time in this thread. You just don't like that that's extra work for you? Don't want to be patient and pre-form a team? What is your specific problem with preforming a team vs creating a system that doesn't need to be created if you would just entertain logic for 30 seconds.
There are only two logical reasons to deny a vote kick system:
1.) You want to leech.
-or-
2.) You have an anxiety disorder.
I didn't overlook anything. On the otherhand, you seem to have overlooked that a leecher can abuse the current system without help from other leechers.
Again, i'm going to repeat this one more time:
The act of leeching requires only the leecher to do it.
The act of vote kicking requires 3 other people to do it.
Please correct your idea to reflect reality:
"The act of leeching requires 4 others enabling it to be done".
"The act of harassing by vote requires 3 other players to do it."
You guys keep enabling them to leech by staying in the instance with them. LEAVE the damn instance and let them sit there alone. Or better still, round up some people that you know won't leech and group with them.
Quit pushing your responsibility for and to yourself on others or the company!
Sorry, I thought it was totally clear. I typically run STFs with some fleet-mates. A partial pre-made, basically. Say there are three of us, and we decide (over teamspeak, or fleet chat, so the other two players don't hear) to grief the other two players by booting them right before the mission ends, so they did basically all the work, but got none of the rewards. That is a stupid system. Just because you or I won't take advantage of it, doesn't mean others can't.
Beyond which, a vote system quickly becomes a coercive tool used to enforce "proper" play on anyone who is perceived to be having wrongbadfun. Show up in a cruiser or sci ship? Gone. Mess up the 10% rule? Gone. Have a character or ship name I don't like? Gone. etc.
If leechers really bother you, you have a few options. You can send them a tell to let them know you will report them. You can report them. You can leave the mission. You can choose to not let it bother you, especially if you are going to finish the mission and get the optional anyway. Finally, you can choose to build a network of friends you can trust to play with, instead of pugging.
Leechers don't leech because they want to grief. They leech because they don't need to be there to reap the rewards.
On the other hand, 4 people are not rewarded by kicking 1 other person.
Do you believe the amount of people abusing the vote kick system will be anywhere near as high as the people leeching right now?
This thread is hilarious. I know I for one would prefer running the risk of being troll kicked from the odd pug than know there are people being used by leechbots running unchecked. Now for some /sarcasm
IMO any player vote system is open to abuse and will do more harm than good, so they're a bad idea.
Ya I agree that democracy is a bad idea too. We should just go back to letting inbred monarchies dictate to all us peasants how we should live because they were chosen by God to lead us.
This thread is hilarious. I know I for one would prefer running the risk of being troll kicked from the odd pug than know there are people being used by leechbots running unchecked. Now for some /sarcasm
Ya I agree that democracy is a bad idea too. We should just go back to letting inbred monarchies dictate to all us peasants how we should live because they were chosen by God to lead us.
Seriously though, there is no possible universe in which this alcohol thing would not be abused. That's just basic human sociology
There should be no abusable thing in human society. So let us now shutdown the internet.
That is a terrible argument. You're talking about creating something entirely new to be abused like any similar system is already abused.
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
that can be reversed back at ya only your the leecher
So don't team with him when you're pre-forming your group to avoid leechers? This is a completely ridiculous thread. All there is is circular argument that cannot escape the fact that this already has a solution.
I'll sell you some weapons from New Romulus. Never fired, only dropped once.
So don't team with him when you're pre-forming your group to avoid leechers? This is a completely ridiculous thread. All there is is circular argument that cannot escape the fact that this already has a solution.
again i must do this why cant ppl who abuse something get a spanking ? the way ppl talk like this more it make me want to join them or leave the game for good because it's going to get worse before it gets better and im not going to sit in zone spaming looking for this and that and or join player made chats to and im going to keep on for
I can't abuse it without 3 others. ...unlike you, abusing the current system all by yourself.
I can't be "abused" by a leecher at all in the current system, because as a rational adult, I understand that I have responses to that behavior, like leaving the match or teaming up with people I know and trust. Under a vote kick system, I suddenly become vulnerable to bad behavior by others, when I wasn't before.
Moreover, in the current system, if I get annoyed by a leecher, I have several options - I can continue the mission if I would rather just have my marks/dil and be done. I can GM report and leave. I can send a tell to the person asking them politely to participate so we all get more rewards. If I'm feeling especially passive-aggressive, I can grab aggro from a bunch of enemies, pull them over to the leecher, and then cloak, so the leecher gets killed. I can do a lot of things. Crucially, when I see someone AFK, I can choose to participate or not. If in the end I feel like my time was wasted because we failed, or whatever, that was still my choice. On the other hand, if people grief me by booting me from the mission, my time has been wasted, and I have no real recourse beyond hoping I got the @handles for the other players, so I can report them.
Finally anyone making the argument that leechers are worse because they "abuse" more people needs a more nuanced understanding of the world. In Star Trek parlance, the needs of the many do not, in fact, always outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. In the real world, needs and wants must be ranked against each other according to both the number of people they affect, and their severity. Here, at best, you are proposing a system that solves a minor annoyance for many people by exposing a smaller group to a much greater harm. That's not a valid or acceptable approach.
Comments
You do the smart things in taking care of fleas.
First you keep the pets outside until after you've bathed them. You also fumigate the house and vacuum the carpet/floors/furniture, etc etc etc.
Getting people to play THEIR game YOUR way is a whole different issue.
Normally, you control you. But as is clearly evident here from a lot of the postings, the AFKers are controlling a lot of you players with the situation in the instances.
Every single time that you queue up with an AFKer then stick around to play out the match while being mad at them, they win.
Every single time that you come here to the forums and complain, they win.
At any point when you finally realize this and take responsibility for your own gaming and choose to exercise your options by playing with people that you can count on, the AFKers lose. And they don't have anyone to leech off of. And they don't get any attention in-game or on the forums. See how easy that is?
I don't see any victims here. Just enablers that keep allowing someone else to dictate how well they enjoy STO.
i mean i give good somes of money at times to this game and this is the game behavior that is more or less tolerated by some players and they say i should fell the same way to
system Lord Baal is dead
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Hey guys, you know what will be funny? Instead of leeching off these poor rubes, let's let them get ALMOST done with the mission, then boot them right before the end, so they get no rewards, and are on CD for the mission! Man, I'm super glad they added this vote option!"
So, yeah, no, I don't think a vote is a good idea.
All the more reason in that scenario to have pre-formed a full team you can trust. Which you can do now...
out back out back lol this remind me of hobbits
system Lord Baal is dead
Your example is nonsense.
The act of leeching requires only the leecher to do it.
The act of vote kicking requires 3 other people to do it.
Who is the leecher talking to in your example when he says "Hey guys..." and "Instead of leeching off these poor rubes..."?
You seem to have overlooked that anyone can team with 2 friends with the intent of abusing the system.
I didn't overlook anything. On the otherhand, you seem to have overlooked that a leecher can abuse the current system without help from other leechers.
Again, i'm going to repeat this one more time:
The act of leeching requires only the leecher to do it.
The act of vote kicking requires 3 other people to do it.
They can't do that if you preform your team. how are you not getting this?
And people can't vote kick you if you preform your team. How are you not getting this?
Because it's totally unnecessary and opens a door for more abuse when you already have a perfectly viable option?
You didn't specify how it causes "more abuse".
I said i'll only repeat it once more, so read my reply above.
I believe I was very specific when I said 3 people can team in advance with the intent of abuse. Does it need to be more specific than that? This is just a tired issue that is only going in circles because you guys just restate the same defeated points over and over.
1 person abuses 4.
4 people abuse 1.
Which of these causes "more abuse"? "How are you not getting this?" :rolleyes:
The 1 person abuses 4 is an argument that has been answered dozens, if not hundreds of time in this thread. You just don't like that that's extra work for you? Don't want to be patient and pre-form a team? What is your specific problem with preforming a team vs creating a system that doesn't need to be created if you would just entertain logic for 30 seconds.
Sorry, I thought it was totally clear. I typically run STFs with some fleet-mates. A partial pre-made, basically. Say there are three of us, and we decide (over teamspeak, or fleet chat, so the other two players don't hear) to grief the other two players by booting them right before the mission ends, so they did basically all the work, but got none of the rewards. That is a stupid system. Just because you or I won't take advantage of it, doesn't mean others can't.
Beyond which, a vote system quickly becomes a coercive tool used to enforce "proper" play on anyone who is perceived to be having wrongbadfun. Show up in a cruiser or sci ship? Gone. Mess up the 10% rule? Gone. Have a character or ship name I don't like? Gone. etc.
If leechers really bother you, you have a few options. You can send them a tell to let them know you will report them. You can report them. You can leave the mission. You can choose to not let it bother you, especially if you are going to finish the mission and get the optional anyway. Finally, you can choose to build a network of friends you can trust to play with, instead of pugging.
There are only two logical reasons to deny a vote kick system:
1.) You want to leech.
-or-
2.) You have an anxiety disorder.
Please correct your idea to reflect reality:
"The act of leeching requires 4 others enabling it to be done".
"The act of harassing by vote requires 3 other players to do it."
You guys keep enabling them to leech by staying in the instance with them. LEAVE the damn instance and let them sit there alone. Or better still, round up some people that you know won't leech and group with them.
Quit pushing your responsibility for and to yourself on others or the company!
system Lord Baal is dead
There is only 1 logical reason for you to keep pushing this vote kick system - you want to abuse it to vote kick people.
Quite a lot of people are not ok with the spam report feature as a large number of us have seen it abused with intent first hand.
Leechers don't leech because they want to grief. They leech because they don't need to be there to reap the rewards.
On the other hand, 4 people are not rewarded by kicking 1 other person.
Do you believe the amount of people abusing the vote kick system will be anywhere near as high as the people leeching right now?
Ya I agree that democracy is a bad idea too. We should just go back to letting inbred monarchies dictate to all us peasants how we should live because they were chosen by God to lead us.
Seriously though, there is no possible universe in which this alcohol thing would not be abused. That's just basic human sociology
There should be no abusable thing in human society. So let us now shutdown the internet.
That is a terrible argument. You're talking about creating something entirely new to be abused like any similar system is already abused.
that can be reversed back at ya only your the leecher
system Lord Baal is dead
I can't abuse it without 3 others. ...unlike you, abusing the current system all by yourself.
So don't team with him when you're pre-forming your group to avoid leechers? This is a completely ridiculous thread. All there is is circular argument that cannot escape the fact that this already has a solution.
again i must do this why cant ppl who abuse something get a spanking ? the way ppl talk like this more it make me want to join them or leave the game for good because it's going to get worse before it gets better and im not going to sit in zone spaming looking for this and that and or join player made chats to and im going to keep on for
1 vote to kick
2 make it all Soleable
3 tie the ignore in to pug
3 i would take over all really
system Lord Baal is dead
I can't be "abused" by a leecher at all in the current system, because as a rational adult, I understand that I have responses to that behavior, like leaving the match or teaming up with people I know and trust. Under a vote kick system, I suddenly become vulnerable to bad behavior by others, when I wasn't before.
Moreover, in the current system, if I get annoyed by a leecher, I have several options - I can continue the mission if I would rather just have my marks/dil and be done. I can GM report and leave. I can send a tell to the person asking them politely to participate so we all get more rewards. If I'm feeling especially passive-aggressive, I can grab aggro from a bunch of enemies, pull them over to the leecher, and then cloak, so the leecher gets killed. I can do a lot of things. Crucially, when I see someone AFK, I can choose to participate or not. If in the end I feel like my time was wasted because we failed, or whatever, that was still my choice. On the other hand, if people grief me by booting me from the mission, my time has been wasted, and I have no real recourse beyond hoping I got the @handles for the other players, so I can report them.
Finally anyone making the argument that leechers are worse because they "abuse" more people needs a more nuanced understanding of the world. In Star Trek parlance, the needs of the many do not, in fact, always outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. In the real world, needs and wants must be ranked against each other according to both the number of people they affect, and their severity. Here, at best, you are proposing a system that solves a minor annoyance for many people by exposing a smaller group to a much greater harm. That's not a valid or acceptable approach.