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Dear Devs: Reman 3 pc bonus is useless
redricky
Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
If I'm completely mistaken regarding how this works, please correct me, but I encourage everyone to put the set on, take some hull heals, and let NPCs shoot at you. Don't redistribute or heal your shields. Open the Defense tab under your ship menu. You will see the max sp increase with nothing but the base regen healing you. If you have a parser the Capacitance Cel doesn't even register as healing.
Devs, please consider reworking this.
I'm going to use simple numbers, I have 100 shields for the moment.
A. I get hit with an attack for 10 then I have 90/100.
B. The Capacitance Cel procs, I have 90/105. Am I better off? Nope. This has done absolutely nothing for me.
C. 5 seconds later, shot again, proc again, 80/110
D. Assuming every shot misses me after the first two, I have a shield heal available 5 seconds later, I use it bringing my shields to 108/110.
E. 5 seconds later the Capacitance Cel wears off because the stacks don't refresh and I'm back to 105/105.
F. 5 seconds later the other Capacitance Cel wears off and I'm back to 100/100, the same situation I'd be in if it had never proc'd.
Consider one of the following:
1. Changing the proc to actually provide healing, so B. would be 95/105.
2. Leaving the shield points as "temporary" so F. would leave 108/100.
3. Make each application refresh the stack, so players could heal into the extra capacity effectively.
4. All of the above, since it's the grindiest set to upgrade with a gated event.
Stacks refreshing would probably be the easiest.
The capacity of the shield is not competitive with the other end game shields, so I'd like a buff there too, but that's really about making it more effective. The 3 pc bonus is, currently, completely useless, and deserving of a pass, especially considering there is an entire event devoted to upgrading it. And it's pretty.
Devs, please consider reworking this.
I'm going to use simple numbers, I have 100 shields for the moment.
A. I get hit with an attack for 10 then I have 90/100.
B. The Capacitance Cel procs, I have 90/105. Am I better off? Nope. This has done absolutely nothing for me.
C. 5 seconds later, shot again, proc again, 80/110
D. Assuming every shot misses me after the first two, I have a shield heal available 5 seconds later, I use it bringing my shields to 108/110.
E. 5 seconds later the Capacitance Cel wears off because the stacks don't refresh and I'm back to 105/105.
F. 5 seconds later the other Capacitance Cel wears off and I'm back to 100/100, the same situation I'd be in if it had never proc'd.
Consider one of the following:
1. Changing the proc to actually provide healing, so B. would be 95/105.
2. Leaving the shield points as "temporary" so F. would leave 108/100.
3. Make each application refresh the stack, so players could heal into the extra capacity effectively.
4. All of the above, since it's the grindiest set to upgrade with a gated event.
Stacks refreshing would probably be the easiest.
The capacity of the shield is not competitive with the other end game shields, so I'd like a buff there too, but that's really about making it more effective. The 3 pc bonus is, currently, completely useless, and deserving of a pass, especially considering there is an entire event devoted to upgrading it. And it's pretty.
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CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Post edited by redricky on
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a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
i am working hard to get another reman set fully upgraded to level 12. i need 17 more datalogs for my final shield upgrade to level 12.
so what strength are the shields you tested?
Also, does the capacitor cell bonus actualyl boost your capacitiy with empty or full shields? (Meaning does it only boost your maximum hitpoint limit or does it actually also fill that extra with shields) Haha.
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It boosts your max SP only. I mentioned regen because that's the only SP you'll see coming back if you test it. Max SP will go up and down as the proc comes and goes, but no meaningful SP will be added aside from your base regen.
So it is meaningless if you're at less than full shields, and if you actually use the extra capacity by healing into it, after 15 seconds you lose it because the stacks don't refresh.
On a related note, the improved plasma torp from the 2 pc is really fun. Watching that thing do a U-turn and move with a purpose after somebody trying to run is enough to make me giggle. I've watched Cars more times than I care to think about with my son and I always hear Mater (Larry the Cable Guy) yelling that Frank the Tractor is going to get you when I see one of those torps hauling TRIBBLE after someone.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Reman capacitance bonus is almost perfectly suited for science ships and cruisers..and its horrible for escorts.
Escort's speed means very high defense bonus so they get missed a lot. That alone runs you into the 'reset timer' issue. Plus an escort doesn't carry the self-healing abilities the sci/eng ships do.
Try your test in a science that is set for shield tanking (particularly using regen abilities not insta heals). The ship will get hit nonstop keeping the shield bonus amount at max nonstop and the regeneration setup keeps that shield amount filled up.
While yes, when the timer on the first proc runs out you will lose 5% of the shield max bonus amount.. but think about it.. if you're getting hit constantly that 5% is already 'gone' anyways. The whole point is that this ability provides an extra buffer shield amount. In a couple of hits you regain that 5% with another proc.
Now the real question is just what exactly does the reman set do to plasma high yield torpedoes. The TRIBBLE poor description of it doesnt say much.
I'm saying it doesn't provide an extra buffer. You actually get penalized for utilizing the increased capacity. Yes, you regain that 5%, but it's empty. If you already healed into it it's the same as being hit for 5% of your SP.
My shield is at 100/100
hit/proc takes it to 90/105
Should I heal? Or wait?
If I heal it could go to 103/105, but if the buff drops off I'll lose that 3.
So I wait, get hit again, 80/105. Now I want to heal, because I won't lose those 3 points.
There is no incentive to heal into the bonus capacity.
Regen builds? First of all, AFAIK Sci team is the only shield heal without a regen component (and RSP I guess), so I'm not sure what you're trying to steer me towards. Most regen builds I've seen have included Shield Emitter Amplifiers and a high regen shield. It's always seemed that regen builds were less about the abilities and more about the ship. We're stuck with a Covariant here, so I'm not seeing it.
Sorry if I'm missing your point about it being better for certain kinds of ships, but I still stand by the argument that, regardless of ship or captain, there is no incentive to heal into the bonus capacity, making it useless.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Here's an example:
Science ship using relatively high shield power setting (~80) and using transfer shield strength and emergency power to shields (each gives a bonus to shield regeneration) and has shield emitter consoles (at least two) equipped.
To use your own example:
My shield is at 100/100
hit/proc takes it to 90/105
... you hit the transfer shield strength heal (III and II preferably) and you will get a huge number of hitpoints back to the shield but in a 'heal over time' effect.
As you take more hits the amount of shield can go up to 125 ... with a big regen heal ticking it doesnt matter if your shield fluctuates between 100 and 125 when one of the 5% bonuses times out..the moment you get another proc the regen fills it back up again for you. emergency power to shields gives you a small shield heal and boosts the shield resist plus regen rate up a notch as well. The small heal is enough to give you back nearly 20% of your shields.
The setup itself depends a lot on your ship boff station slots. Personally if I was going to use the full reman set i'd make sure to have transfer shield strength 3, emg pwr to shield 3, sci team 1 and IF its a science ship and I have a second science station (LT) I'd put transfer shield strength 2 on it so i can keep a constant regen bonus.
However I do not see a point of using this set for tanking bonus at all considering the insane benefit the borg set has for tanking.
And how do you get a proc? By taking damage. And even on a science ship with the setup you've described there is no way that regen is going to compensate for incoming damage. Yes, you can heal, not regen, into the gap, but this brings me back to my point that you would be better served to wait until you get hit a few more times to avoid healing into the temporary capacity.
This is my sign that you're just spitballing this on paper. "IF it's a science ship"? What else besides a science ship (Neb, D'kyr, and Atrox) can run EPTS3 and TSS3? A BoP? Seriously man, you're not speaking from any kind of experience with this bonus.
You can't regen into it, and healing into it gets penalized. My points stands and the bonus clearly deserves a pass from the devs.
I would really like somebody else to take this bonus out and tell me if you can get 5 stacks to stick. I can't. So it looks like the max sustainable stack is 4. Yet another reason to make the stacks refresh.
Devs, if you're listening, if you leave it an empty max SP bonus you might consider making the proc include a bonus to incoming healing to offset the penalty for losing a stack.
I'd also like to point out that utilizing the Cap bonus is senseless in every situation save solo PvE. In an STF or PvP using a heal to keep your shields completely full take it away from a teammate who might otherwise need it. Are you going to top off your capacitance cel or throw a heal on the Kang?
Again, this looks shiny on paper, but take it out into the cold, unforgiving reaches of borg space, or heck, take it to normal PvE with a couple of mirandas shooting at you, and you will find that it is a non-factor in the fight.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Borg ftw.
Thank you for giving attention to the Reman set.
One thing about the Tribble changes that bugs me is that the timer on the Capacitance Cel buff icon only applies to the most recent stack. So you will see stacks drop off while there is lots of time on the clock. This is irritating and reflects badly on the design. Sorry for being harsh.
Also, the Plasma HYT that generates so much of my warm fuzzies for this set is bugging out. On about 3 of the 15 that I fired last night it reached the target, then flew slowly in space without detonating.
With the death of 3 piece borg + Shield I'm excited that other sets will come into consideration. I love this set and I want to see it be competitive with other sets and worth its own event.
I. The stacks should refresh each other.
Currently the Capacitance Cel is fighting itself and still only marginally funtional. The bonus provided by the most recent stack is subtracted by the oldest stack. I aggro'd almost a dozen ships and the highest I got was 7 procs, most of the time I had 2 or 3. 2 is the same as none, 3 is the same as 1. If they refresh you would get the "real" sp on application and keep the increased capacity to be healed into.
II. Expiration should not cut into your normal shield points.
Like, imagine if it was a life bar in a 2d fighter. You have your normal green life bar, then the capacitance cel gives you like a yellow life bar on the end of it that gets eaten through first. If you heal back up into that yellow bar you should be penalized if it expires, but it shouldn't affect the green.
I understand that this would seem to be "free" healing and potentially overpowered, but not if the stacks refresh. If they do not refresh then yes, you get a free 5% heal with every proc with no downside. But if they refresh you would actually hit the max stacks and stop getting heals.
III. Overall set competitiveness.
A. Deflector: SubD is the only notable thing on there, and that's only because it was placed so high in the skill tree. ID is not needed, 6 points gets you what you need in the skill tree. Grav Gens is ok, but on most ships the skills that benefit from Graviton Generators and Subspace Decompilers will be competing with each other for a boff slot. This is bad.
Make the Deflector fit the theme of the set: Plasma Damage and Shields. Particle Generators, Weapons Training, Shield Systems, Shield Emitters.
B. Engines: Please see this thread for what is wrong with this engine. Basically, at end game you will not have less than 50 engine power even at the lowest setting so Combat Engines have no place in an end game set.
C. Shields: This is a Covariant Capx2 and nothing else. The KHG is the other Covariant and comes with a placate and debuff built in.
First, see I and II above to make the Capacitance Cel useful. Then, remove it from the 3 piece bonus and just make it part of the shield. Compared to shields that provide resists it might be competitive then. The MACO gets a 10% resist slapped on without needing to be shot or maintain stacks. The capacity of the Reman shield needs to be enormous to make up for the lack of innate resists and bleedthrough reduction.
IV. 3 piece bonus.
Something new. More plasma and more shields? Bonus to EWP, free EWP like ability? Chance for plasma fires to do something else (subsystem disable, movement debuff, etc.)?
Or, Plasma fires heal you. So you blow your Plasma HYT at close range and get caught in the explosion for the DoT which becomes a HoT.
Or, Bonus to something (power levels, damage, targeting) while Plasma HYT is loaded and for 5 seconds after firing.
Or, leave the Capacitance Cel but buff the shield. Buff it a lot.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe