Over multiple firing cycles yes, however you are in an Atrox. Realistically in Arena play you won't be able to utilize the rapid reload potential of photon torpedoes.
Quantums per shot do the best bleedthrough in the game. (and with Torp Doffs it doesn't matter what the CD is on your torps if you are using torp doffs... so there's no reason to NOT use Quantums)
You will never get the crits out of photons that you can get out of Quantums.
Also when HYT or Torp Spread is factored in the Damage Multipliers make quantums bar none the best at everything.
You really need a log parser man. Or you need to be shown to at least be able to pick through the god awfull unsorted mess of the standard combat log.
This is stuff we all tested time and time again over the last two years.
2 Minutes. for a mere 14 percent hull. (no heal being used on my part either)
Vs. 10 seconds.
You need something with more bite, regardless of what you decide on. Tacs shouldn't be taking 2 minutes just to deal a meager 14 percent damage, with no damage done to shield facings.
Do yourself a favor and get an Atrox. Then try that out. Build one before you give advice.
Thing is your dps with those torps is so low that your addition really isn't present. Imagine, my Vorcha or my Escorts shooting a target, with another shooting it too. Now take that same helper and put it with you instead of me. Which one of us is going to murder the victim faster?
Galaxy Xs flew at the same speed and turned like your Atrox. (full spec for agility a high engine power and 3 rcs consoles and it still turned at 9 it's gotten a boost since then but it's still a Pig and I'm glad I discharged that ship years ago) I flew one of those at one time. Trust me, 6 beams is the only way to go on something that's slow. It's easy to do broadsides in arenas man. Just don't think in straight vectors. Think in arcs. Fly at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle and cant your nose just to the side when you head towards your opponents. There you go easy, sustained broadsides.
The slower your ship, the more you NEED beams. not the other way around. You won't find a single person that will argue the point otherwise. WebDeath for example, who is probably the most sage and savvy carrier pilot around will also tell you this. You need to adjust your flying. It's not the beams fault.
So what I'd do is Tac team 1 (which you have) I would then put either attack pattern Delta, or Beta 1 in. (FAW2 is optional but not required given what sci abilities we'll be putting on your ship)
LTC engineer. I would use EPTS1 EPTS2, or EPTS1, RSP1, with Warp Plasma1 or DEM2 (tacs can buff DEM2 to be pretty substantial over it's duration. It certainly will do = damage to what your 2 minutes of T torps were doing.. plus you'll actually be hurting shields with the beam fire still More dmg = more dmg. No two ways about it)
Warp plasma, because ships if you noticed like to park on Fat Ki... Ships backsides. You can pop evasive and engine battery and full reverse with this and catch people. You can also set up zone control against other carriers with this. Also in Arenas you'll probably catch more than your initial target. Even if all you do is force a premature Hazard Burn, that's a 10-20k heal and strong resist that you just denied them. Also, tac damage with warp plasma gets kind of crazy if the enemy doesn't clear it with hazards. If they take the full burn, it really gibs people's durability cycle.
LTC Sci. I would put Tractor Beam1 in your ensign slot here. You need the ability to shut down movement in modern pvp. Otherwise people can and will run rings around you. In Arenas, you have to worry about a great deal more attack vectors than you do in 1v1. Tractor beam helps close those off, and it can be used both offensive, and defensively. (defensive, snare them when you see them ramping up an alpha but still aren't pointing at you, or whoever on your team is about to Eat It) Transfer Shield Strength 2. Third I would put Sci Team 3 here. Sci Team 3s heal especially once you get the Dev Lab Scientists to knock it to it's global is Ridiculous. Especially for us poor tacs. We need every bit of shield we can get. Also it can be thrown to a buddy. Couple it with TSS2 and their shield will definitely linger until an ally can throw Extends around.
Commander Sci. I would consider either Hazard 1 or Polarize hull 1 here. Next up TBR1 as a possiblity.
It does 1k dps with tac buffs boosting it. It does this through shields as well. It also pushes targets away from you, or you can push people away from friendly healing with it. Giving it a triple use.
FPB2. You are going to need -something- even after all of this to keep them off your ship in live matches. FBP2 with tac buffs and full aux is more than enough for this.
Finally I would mount the following (and have alternate bridge crew to swap in and out as needed or until you find out which you like best) Viral Matrix 3, (with 3 doffs? yeah.. this is pretty much a Perma Shut Down you won't get to use it often with your slow speed but it's great for an opener)
Gravity Well 3 (with aftershock doff this is another Ridiculous one. Especially since it gets tac buffed. My Recon's DPS just from GW3 is somewhere around 1500-2800 depending on when I pop my go down fighting and if my doff procs) Again GW3 can be used to either clear spam (so it can shut down enemy carriers), Suck in Fat Ki.. Ships (like Oddys, carriers, bortas) and still do TRIBBLE tons of damage.
And finally, Tractor Beam Repulsors3... mine can do about 2k in my recon per second. Through Shields. It also has a ludicrously strong repel if you are specced for it. Which like TBR1 can be obnoxious. Glorious thing about TBR? Not Arc Depdendant. Also TBR3, unlike PSW3 (though this is still a good choice and is one of the other ways Web Fried Me) has abit more reach out and touch people potential. You also get multiple shots with TBR3.
If you don't want to go with 6 beams try 4. 2 fore and 2 aft. With Chrono torps in your aft section. Chroniton procs are ungodly in their cheese. (and maybe get an alternate tac boff with Torp Spread 2). Upfront mount a Tricobalt. Why a tric? a tric if it lands will give you far more damage per 2 minute cycles than your three constant 2 minute long barrages of T Torps.
Also when I say Can Do. I mean that as a minimum. I've had TBR3 do 13k Crits. And then it Chains Crits. (which means each pulse is a crit on that target. 4 pulses = someone is dead) I have One Passed Bops in my Recon because of TBR3 crit chains. Didn't even use a single other ability. Killed him in one pass, and nearly killed 2 of his friends as well. Had anyone been shooting me at the time I was also running FBP2 I would have probably wiped a whole team with just 2 boff skills and some tac buffs.
Something else to note here. All of those sci skills with the exception of the heals, Grav Well and FBP2 are NOT aux dependent to do damage. Meaning, you can easily run Full to Guns, and murder the **** out of someone with sci skills at the same time, and just use aux bats or switch to an aux setting when you either need heals or FBP2. Also ST3 isn't aux dependent. Giving you a very healthy boost to healing without needing to go to aux.
Also, when you can if you really want to TRIBBLE everyone off switch to Phasers. Their proc is insanely broken. (it's actually worse than it used to be and it was already OP compared to where it was before) It's basically a free miniature non firing arced Viral Matrix that can also pop shields off.
I can train ST3 for you if you want to give the full build a try. Not a partial build, the full thing. I don't think you'll even think about your original builds anymore once you get into the swing of this one. Other than maybe to smile and giggle.
(Trust me we've all had Fail Builds that we thought were Hot Stuff when we first started out It's not something just exclusive to you. Though most of us took the time, to sit down with our friends and enemies alike that were trying to help out and figure out how things work )
A gal X is no sci boff layout ship. So go, get an Atrox, test your little theory.
As a general comment: You got it backwards. I am not looking for the best ship for my captain. Instead, I have a carrier and want it to do damage.
Yes, for the thousandth time, I know that this is not optimal. But it's fun.
A Gal X is every bit as fail for a tac especially the old one as the carrier. It turned at -9- WITH Turn rate boosts.
I also fly a Recon. A ship with much the same limitations for dealing damage as your carrier. It has a crappy inertia which makes it's turn rate decieving. It has a grand total of -one- more tac slot than yours. (but yours has an eng slot.. which has a much better choice of damage dealing powers. Warp Plas or DEM2)
I know what you are trying to do. What I don't think you understand your approach has been wrong this whole time.
And if you want to do Damage, then you're going to have to try my loadout. It's LOADED with Damage dealing powers. Your healing potential is much the same, your crowd control increases, and your durability in large matches will actually improve. I don't think you quite grasp what tac buffs do to sci damage skills.
It will work. It will wreck havoc, and you will love it.
You are going to get to do Energy Weapon DPS to supplement. You're doing FAR MORE damage when not being shot at. And you still have FBP2 out of the deal. You are literally losing nothing and gaining everything here man. What about this do you not get?
i truly hope you got through to him this time. this information is simply the truth, we have had 2 and a half years to figure out every possible combination of things. at face value a tac in a science ship sounds silly, but this info about that match up proves that we have literally tried everything.
we have this stuff down to a science, to show up and argue with what we have all seen works best, and what we have seen actually faceroll us is ignorant and arrogant, and its why the regulars have been so harsh. after 2 and a half years, there is nothing new under the sun regarding builds. any changes in game are under 100 micro scopes immediately, it becomes a known quantity in an hour. those sci skills under tac buffs are absolutely as deadly as he says, its arguably the most deadly thing you can encounter in game right now.
and torpedoes, any torpedoes, unless you can fire them as soon as you can reload every time, they have non existent dps. quantums are really the only torp that you don't want fireing as soon as they are ready, they should be saved for alphas. though with HY they bleed more damage then trans torps, hilariously enough. being a shield piercer primarily, if your transphasics arent firing as soon as they reload every time, a turret will deal more bleed damage to the hull then a trans torp will by the time a battle is over. what you give up in constant energy damage dps compared to slotting a torpedo in its place adds up very quickly. the bleed from a beam array with 90% up time will do 100 times the bleed a transphasic will do during the same fight. 1000 every 30 seconds or so is not spike, its not decisive killing blow damage. putting torpedoes on something as slow as a carrier is like equipping tactical consoles that doesn't buff any of the weapons your using.
The technician Doffs reduce the recharge rate of ALL Bridge officer powers.
Granted it won't bring everything down as low as the Sci team doffs, but it will get pretty close.
Here's the Build Idea I have in mind:
Lt Tac: Tac team 1, Beta/Delta 1
Engi LtC: EptS 1, Aux 2 Bat 1, DEM 2
LtC Sci: Tractor Beam 1, HE 2, FBP 2
Cmd Sci: TSS 1, Sci team 2, TBR 2, GW 3
Weapons:
Fore: 3x single Beam array
Aft: 3x Single Beam array or 2x Single Beam array 1x Chrono Mine
Now my math sucks.. and I might be doing this wrong but this would be the recharges on all powers every pop of Aux to bat that you'd be useing:
Tac/Sci team: 21 second cool down
TBR: 28 Second cool down
FBP: 42 Second cool down
GW: 42 second cool down
TSS: 31.5 second cool down
HE: 31.5 Second cool down
Delta/Beta 1: 31.5 Second cool down
(Didn't have Dem to check it's cool down but I know it's very low)
You'd also have to carry Aux Batteries to much on during Aux 2 Bat Down times but if you poped it after using HE, TSS, FBP, or GW you'd probobly be able to switch to weapon power anyway.
I'd use the build Idea my self to test around with it, but I don't have the Doffs needed. Being Lazy.. having 9 Toons.. = Not enough good Doffs to test these things out. Where's husnakx when I need him.. I know he's done a TON of Aux2bat Tests! :frown:
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
The technician Doffs reduce the recharge rate of ALL Bridge officer powers.
Granted it won't bring everything down as low as the Sci team doffs, but it will get pretty close.
Here's the Build Idea I have in mind:
Lt Tac: Tac team 1, Beta/Delta 1
Engi LtC: EptS 1, Aux 2 Bat 1, DEM 2
LtC Sci: Tractor Beam 1, HE 2, FBP 2
Cmd Sci: TSS 1, Sci team 2, TBR 2, GW 3
Weapons:
Fore: 3x single Beam array
Aft: 3x Single Beam array or 2x Single Beam array 1x Chrono Mine
Now my math sucks.. and I might be doing this wrong but this would be the recharges on all powers every pop of Aux to bat that you'd be useing:
Tac/Sci team: 21 second cool down
TBR: 28 Second cool down
FBP: 42 Second cool down
GW: 42 second cool down
TSS: 31.5 second cool down
HE: 31.5 Second cool down
Delta/Beta 1: 31.5 Second cool down
(Didn't have Dem to check it's cool down but I know it's very low)
You'd also have to carry Aux Batteries to much on during Aux 2 Bat Down times but if you poped it after using HE, TSS, FBP, or GW you'd probobly be able to switch to weapon power anyway.
I'd use the build Idea my self to test around with it, but I don't have the Doffs needed. Being Lazy.. having 9 Toons.. = Not enough good Doffs to test these things out. Where's husnakx when I need him.. I know he's done a TON of Aux2bat Tests! :frown:
I think once I get some technician doffs I'm going to be rebuilding two of my Recons.
I'd use the build Idea my self to test around with it, but I don't have the Doffs needed. Being Lazy.. having 9 Toons.. = Not enough good Doffs to test these things out. Where's husnakx when I need him.. I know he's done a TON of Aux2bat Tests! :frown:
I'm around but I'm not at home so don't have nothing I don't remember around.
Aux to bat is a good idea for a carrier...
If i was going to run a tac carrier... which I would never do however as engi is 10x better in a carrier....
Aux to bat 1 would be on it for sure....
I would use it before every TBR to kill off the push value. I would run things that don't need aux like Scramble... perhaps VM if I could live with the arc issues.... I would run energy weapons.... cause trying to land torps in a boat that doesn't turn would be frustrations galor... not to mention the DPS would suck never being on target... I can keep up to cannon escorts with a torpedo escort on the DPS board... however that is because I can stay on target almost all the time.
With aux to bat... I can't quote times cause I am not home... you have to remember that longer cool down skills (1 min +) you can use aux to bat on twice... you can also keep ONE copy of EPTS up 2 seconds shy of 100% of the time.
DEM ends up being pretty much always on if you are going to run it... I wouldn't on a carrier but on a cruiser its an option for some extra dps.
GW... depending on how strict you are on the role can be aux to batted twice.
VM... can also be aux to batted twice...
Really the best ship to use aux to bat on is a Real Sci Ship... the Recon is the best choice for a tactical in a sci ship hands down. On that ship ya TBR 3 + VM 1 + Gravity well 1 for the win... it menas always on VM (by the time it expires on one target you can reapply very annoying). My tac recon when I was running it would go....
Full aux power -> Tac Buff -> GW 1 + VM 1 -> Aux to Bat -> TBR 3 -> FAW 2 + Tac Team -> ****
So you have 2 and a half years experience with an Atrox. Interesting. How did you do that?
I don't think you've come to the realization yet that sci skills are infact sci skills regardless of what ship they are mounted on.
And good (great) powers don't stop being good/great powers just because you're flying another ship.
You simply put don't know how to use abilities yet. What do you think that some how magically TBR, GW3's damage will nerf themselves because you got in a kitty carrier? Or that 6 beams are some how not going to do any dps for you, because you are in a kitty carrier? Or that some how EPTS's resist value changes from ship to ship?
So what I'd do is Tac team 1 (which you have) I would then put either attack pattern Delta, or Beta 1 in. (FAW2 is optional but not required given what sci abilities we'll be putting on your ship)
LTC engineer. I would use EPTS1 EPTS2, or EPTS1, RSP1, with Warp Plasma1 or DEM2 (tacs can buff DEM2 to be pretty substantial over it's duration. It certainly will do = damage to what your 2 minutes of T torps were doing.. plus you'll actually be hurting shields with the beam fire still More dmg = more dmg. No two ways about it)
Warp plasma, because ships if you noticed like to park on Fat Ki... Ships backsides. You can pop evasive and engine battery and full reverse with this and catch people. You can also set up zone control against other carriers with this. Also in Arenas you'll probably catch more than your initial target. Even if all you do is force a premature Hazard Burn, that's a 10-20k heal and strong resist that you just denied them. Also, tac damage with warp plasma gets kind of crazy if the enemy doesn't clear it with hazards. If they take the full burn, it really gibs people's durability cycle.
LTC Sci. I would put Tractor Beam1 in your ensign slot here. You need the ability to shut down movement in modern pvp. Otherwise people can and will run rings around you. In Arenas, you have to worry about a great deal more attack vectors than you do in 1v1. Tractor beam helps close those off, and it can be used both offensive, and defensively. (defensive, snare them when you see them ramping up an alpha but still aren't pointing at you, or whoever on your team is about to Eat It) Transfer Shield Strength 2. Third I would put Sci Team 3 here. Sci Team 3s heal especially once you get the Dev Lab Scientists to knock it to it's global is Ridiculous. Especially for us poor tacs. We need every bit of shield we can get. Also it can be thrown to a buddy. Couple it with TSS2 and their shield will definitely linger until an ally can throw Extends around.
Commander Sci. I would consider either Hazard 1 or Polarize hull 1 here. Next up TBR1 as a possiblity.
It does 1k dps with tac buffs boosting it. It does this through shields as well. It also pushes targets away from you, or you can push people away from friendly healing with it. Giving it a triple use.
FPB2. You are going to need -something- even after all of this to keep them off your ship in live matches. FBP2 with tac buffs and full aux is more than enough for this.
Finally I would mount the following (and have alternate bridge crew to swap in and out as needed or until you find out which you like best) Viral Matrix 3, (with 3 doffs? yeah.. this is pretty much a Perma Shut Down you won't get to use it often with your slow speed but it's great for an opener)
Gravity Well 3 (with aftershock doff this is another Ridiculous one. Especially since it gets tac buffed. My Recon's DPS just from GW3 is somewhere around 1500-2800 depending on when I pop my go down fighting and if my doff procs) Again GW3 can be used to either clear spam (so it can shut down enemy carriers), Suck in Fat Ki.. Ships (like Oddys, carriers, bortas) and still do TRIBBLE tons of damage.
And finally, Tractor Beam Repulsors3... mine can do about 2k in my recon per second. Through Shields. It also has a ludicrously strong repel if you are specced for it. Which like TBR1 can be obnoxious. Glorious thing about TBR? Not Arc Depdendant. Also TBR3, unlike PSW3 (though this is still a good choice and is one of the other ways Web Fried Me) has abit more reach out and touch people potential. You also get multiple shots with TBR3.
If you don't want to go with 6 beams try 4. 2 fore and 2 aft. With Chrono torps in your aft section. Chroniton procs are ungodly in their cheese. (and maybe get an alternate tac boff with Torp Spread 2). Upfront mount a Tricobalt. Why a tric? a tric if it lands will give you far more damage per 2 minute cycles than your three constant 2 minute long barrages of T Torps.
Also when I say Can Do. I mean that as a minimum. I've had TBR3 do 13k Crits. And then it Chains Crits. (which means each pulse is a crit on that target. 4 pulses = someone is dead) I have One Passed Bops in my Recon because of TBR3 crit chains. Didn't even use a single other ability. Killed him in one pass, and nearly killed 2 of his friends as well. Had anyone been shooting me at the time I was also running FBP2 I would have probably wiped a whole team with just 2 boff skills and some tac buffs.
Something else to note here. All of those sci skills with the exception of the heals, Grav Well and FBP2 are NOT aux dependent to do damage. Meaning, you can easily run Full to Guns, and murder the **** out of someone with sci skills at the same time, and just use aux bats or switch to an aux setting when you either need heals or FBP2. Also ST3 isn't aux dependent. Giving you a very healthy boost to healing without needing to go to aux.
Also, when you can if you really want to TRIBBLE everyone off switch to Phasers. Their proc is insanely broken. (it's actually worse than it used to be and it was already OP compared to where it was before) It's basically a free miniature non firing arced Viral Matrix that can also pop shields off.
I can train ST3 for you if you want to give the full build a try. Not a partial build, the full thing. I don't think you'll even think about your original builds anymore once you get into the swing of this one. Other than maybe to smile and giggle.
(Trust me we've all had Fail Builds that we thought were Hot Stuff when we first started out It's not something just exclusive to you. Though most of us took the time, to sit down with our friends and enemies alike that were trying to help out and figure out how things work )
And Hussi, stop inventing nicknames for people. You are about as good at it as I am.
To correct your miss information... I will post properly tested parser numbers for you tomorrow when I am home...
Seriously though think about it... if you spit a torp ever single second... how the heck does the lower dmg torp with no extra bonuses (like penetration or dots ect) manage to do higher dps again ?
At least you are so obviously wrong I think even newer players see the flaw in the logic.
PS If you are going by Cryptics little DPS tag on the weapons... that is based on standard recharge times... not doff proced recharge times.
And Hussi, stop inventing nicknames for people. You are about as good at it as I am.
Oh Sophie Sophie Sophie...
Don't be upset that I knew you where a girl. Your circular logic reminds me so much of my first 2 wives that your gender was plainly obvious. (no offense to that gender in general).
Oh and everyone knows I'm Qaw... or Hus... Caaa Qaw Sophie.
And Hussi, stop inventing nicknames for people. You are about as good at it as I am.
Up until this post here, I was more then willing to have insightful and helpful conversations to assist in the possible further growth of your game play.
But after this posted replies to Husnakx.. And reading what I read in Organized_PVP.. I'm done.
Sir, you obviously have your head WAY up your TRIBBLE. I've been a nice guy, and I usually try to refrain from bringing my temper to this forum, but **** it. I'm done being nice. Your absoulte disregard for not only helpful information, but this higher then thou additude has definitely got to stop. If you ****ing think that you know more then Husnakx, to respond in such an insulting way that you did, go some place else. We don't want your kind here. You just ranked up there, for me, in the same area as Thegrandnagus. And actually I almost like him better then you at this point.
So go back under your bridge you disgusting little ****tard of a troll. And take that stupid peice of garbage you call a carrier before I decide to go back into my BoP again and start hunting after you every chance I get. And believe me. I can, and will pop that little carrier of yours every time I can. Up until now you've been seeing my helpful and nice side. And with that said.. I leave you with a simple..
GFLL which translates to Get ****ing lost, loser! :mad:
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Up until this post here, I was more then willing to have insightful and helpful conversations to assist in the possible further growth of your game play.
But after this posted replies to Husnakx.. And reading what I read in Organized_PVP.. I'm done.
Sir, you obviously have your head WAY up your TRIBBLE. I've been a nice guy, and I usually try to refrain from bringing my temper to this forum, but **** it. I'm done being nice. Your absoulte disregard for not only helpful information, but this higher then thou additude has definitely got to stop. If you ****ing think that you know more then Husnakx, to respond in such an insulting way that you did, go some place else. We don't want your kind here. You just ranked up there, for me, in the same area as Thegrandnagus. And actually I almost like him better then you at this point.
So go back under your bridge you disgusting little ****tard of a troll. And take that stupid peice of garbage you call a carrier before I decide to go back into my BoP again and start hunting after you every chance I get. And believe me. I can, and will pop that little carrier of yours every time I can. Up until now you've been seeing my helpful and nice side. And with that said.. I leave you with a simple..
GFLL which translates to Get ****ing lost, loser! :mad:
YEA what he said. And i am not sure how the thread lasted this long.
So you have 2 and a half years experience with an Atrox. Interesting. How did you do that?
you... you cant be this stupid. there has been ships with both a LTC sci station and COM sci station since day 1. it doesn't mater if these abilities are used on your cat box or a recon sci, they do the same thing.
the only difference with your cat box is that it doesn't have the maneuverability to leverage abilities as well as other actual science ships.
Feedback Pulse and Transphasics may work surprising well in PuGs as well.
Think of it.
Two PuG Escorts fly around. Let's call them Ehla and Charo. The see a Carrier. "WTF SPAMMER!" they think. "LOL NO EPTZ! NOOB" they think. "Focus Fire on => Feline Supplement"
CRF and APB/APO start their 10-15 second cycles. Carriers starts its FBP and a bit later RSP and at some point Transfer Shield Strength, firing of Transphasics
30 seconds later he's probably whittled down. But maybe so are the Escorts. 1 dead Atrox, 2 dead Escorts, team Atrox is winning by a 1:2 advantage.
It falls apart if someone throws a subnuke or the Escorts do not repeat the mistake.
And of course, I am not sure if RSP + TSS will really make you last long enough to deal with the Escorts with Transphasics and FBP.
At least with 40 % bleedthrough, the chances are getting better. May be interesting to see the metagame evolve here, if it turns into a problem. Maybe some Escorts will start relying on Evasive DOFFs + 1 EPtS and 1 Aux2SIF? Or everyone will fly Fleet Escort/Armitage?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
And Hussi, stop inventing nicknames for people. You are about as good at it as I am.
wow...........sophlogimo, im not even going to read this anymore. i think everyone should stop. mav made a wall of text that i read. i doubt you did. you still act like a prick to people that are being nothing but nice to you. did you notice the change in attitude? they are trying to help. yet your acting like an TRIBBLE. i still cant get how mav of all people still dealing with you. do you know he spends alot of time in chat helping people with questions? actually they all do. im always using a pm on these guys for advice and hoping im not going to annoy them with build advice and questions. unlike you i actually want help. you know it took me close to 300 days just to get my escourt where i want it. i had no help, over 40 respecs. yes i wanted to get it there myself. no i had no 1 there to help me. i did ask a few people a few times but people told me figure it out myself. fine i did and im happy i got it. the engy was easier. its there for healing and some dps. the sci carrier is a thorn in my side. in truth the sci carrier just cant hold up like an escourt or even the oddy. least thats how it seems to me. but these guys take all thier time to help you and you just argure back? are you even looking for help? i doubt it you are.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
Some. But there others who, at this point, are merely trying to prove (or even just claim) that they are right. Hence the "Sophie" designation, which I find rather annoying - and they are aware of that, of course.
If he actually had wanted to help, he would have refrained from using such nicknames, from posting that he "knew my gender" and other such nonsense, and he would not just have made claims but provided some math or empirical evidence for his claim. Or at least some kind of argument.
It took almost 70 pages of look at me posts before I decided you sounded like one of my ex wives and started calling you Sophie.
Anyway... if you can't get 3 torps to hit the global you have bad doffs... 3 purple torp doffs (if that is your main dmg type you should be running 3). Every single torp will hit the global... Chrons I found do sometimes skip one here or there... but really 20% chance x 3... and the fact that each proc will reduce the cool downs on ALL torps loaded means 1 per second is the norm.
Doff Proc Math
1 - ( ( 1 - x ) ^ y )
This tells me that each torp fire has a 48% chance to proc a 5 second reduction.
I know I can fire 3 torps before I run into a cool down with out doffs.... so I get 3 fires at 48% so. In those 3 fires I have a 87% chance to proc one reduction.... so in general with 8 second and faster torps the chances of firing all 3 and having to wait 5 seconds for the next firing round is 12%... really you can count on the doffs with 3 launchers.
There is also a chance that multiple doffs proc on one launcher completely resetting ALL torp tubes.
Now to DPS numbers on torps... I have ran multiple tests in both PvE (where I will run similer spec torps... for my torps generaly crithx3... cause its what I have 3 of every type, I will also use the same ship and same skill load, I even try as best I can to run each run exactly like the last) I run SB24 3 times with each type and average the numbers...
For PvP I have crunched numbers with my Brel torp bop... and yes I have used every type I won't include numbers cause honesty there all over the place... bottom line is in general the pve test numbers hold true for pvp.
Any way drum roll.... Survey says..
First Place
Plasma Highest DPS torpedo
With Spread 3... average 320k dmg in SB24 runs
With no buffs... average 280k dmg in SB24 runs
Second Place
Quantum
With Spread 3.. average 270k dmg
with no buffs... average 220k dmg
Third Place
Photon
With Spread 3... average 250k dmg
with no buffs... average 200k dmg
Fourth Place
Chroniton (there dmg numbers where very close to photon... which is interesting seeing as photon get no prcos)
With Spread 3... average 250k dmg
with no buffs... average 200k dmg
Fifth place
Transphasic
With Spread 3... average 210k dmg
with no buffs... average 160k dmg
One other note on torpedo viability... my SB24 all cannon runs... DPS is almost identical to the plasma torp numbers.
One other note I know I didn't inlcude any pvp numbers for you.. interesting note though unbuffed plasma torps end up with almost as high a dps number as buffed ones in pvp... I would make a pretty safe educated guess that that has to do with the unbuffed version of the torp having a 100% chance to proc the burn proc.
One last note please understand I am not saying plasma is the best torp in every situation hands down... every torp has its uses. (which make torps a ton of fun imo) Plasmas are far from the highest burst dmg torp... I am talking about pure Damage Over Time (DPS) here.
Husanak, do you know if plasma torps are affected by the set shield resists? I ask because there are other occasions where the game differentiates between two similar energy types (e.g. spiral waves, plasma energy consoles don't boost plasma torps, etc.)
Husanak, do you know if plasma torps are affected by the set shield resists? I ask because there are other occasions where the game differentiates between two similar energy types (e.g. spiral waves, plasma energy consoles don't boost plasma torps, etc.)
Pretty sure its only energy plasma... could be wrong though... really the burn proc does most of the dmg in pvp and that is right to hull.
Husanak, do you know if plasma torps are affected by the set shield resists? I ask because there are other occasions where the game differentiates between two similar energy types (e.g. spiral waves, plasma energy consoles don't boost plasma torps, etc.)
If you look at Plasma Torps. They are kinetic damage first. The Plasma Part is a proc, that as Husnakx said, is straight to hull damage. So unless the target has Consoles helping to resist that kind of damage, the Torps proc should burn at the same damage all the time.
Also, that damage does get buffed by buffs/resist debuffs. So if you have Attack Pattern Delta/Beta, Fire on my Mark, A sensor Scan, and tac buffs you can expect the Dot damage to increase as well, obviously.
At least this is how I have witnessed it when in PVP.
*Note: This was a reply to some one else concerning information that I felt was relevent, and not an attempt to further along Sophie's thread.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
If you look at Plasma Torps. They are kinetic damage first. The Plasma Part is a proc, that as Husnakx said, is straight to hull damage. So unless the target has Consoles helping to resist that kind of damage, the Torps proc should burn at the same damage all the time.
Also, that damage does get buffed by buffs/resist debuffs. So if you have Attack Pattern Delta/Beta, Fire on my Mark, A sensor Scan, and tac buffs you can expect the Dot damage to increase as well, obviously.
At least this is how I have witnessed it when in PVP.
*Note: This was a reply to some one else concerning information that I felt was relevent, and not an attempt to further along Sophie's thread.
That's actually really interesting, I had no idea the DoT could be buffed too. And resistance-wise, they'd only be affected by kinetics (rather than any type of plasma), right?
That's actually really interesting, I had no idea the DoT could be buffed too. And resistance-wise, they'd only be affected by kinetics (rather than any type of plasma), right?
Exactly... the plasma dot is very strong and effective... however understand the dot alone will likely never kill anyone... (outside of extremely dedicated dot builds... like my Full Kinetic Cloaked B'rel... which stays cloaked for more dmg and uses KHG for kinetic buffs ect).
What it is great for however is tons of very good pressure dmg... I will often not be on the focus target with my plasma builds... I will stay on a healer or CC ship and force them to focus on themselves or at the very least use there hazards on themselves.
Plasma heavy teams are also a good counter to Glider teams... as the borg 3 piece shield proc removes dots... glider means no free dot removal.
Comments
Quantums per shot do the best bleedthrough in the game. (and with Torp Doffs it doesn't matter what the CD is on your torps if you are using torp doffs... so there's no reason to NOT use Quantums)
You will never get the crits out of photons that you can get out of Quantums.
Also when HYT or Torp Spread is factored in the Damage Multipliers make quantums bar none the best at everything.
You really need a log parser man. Or you need to be shown to at least be able to pick through the god awfull unsorted mess of the standard combat log.
This is stuff we all tested time and time again over the last two years.
I'm talking full on Arenas.
Or even 3v3s.
Also T Torps again do -less- bleedthrough than Quantums due to their inferior damage multiplier. Especially when HYT or tac buffs are factored in.
Also you saw how long it took you. 2 minutes.
2 Minutes. for a mere 14 percent hull. (no heal being used on my part either)
Vs. 10 seconds.
You need something with more bite, regardless of what you decide on. Tacs shouldn't be taking 2 minutes just to deal a meager 14 percent damage, with no damage done to shield facings.
In a full on arena you won't be shooting the same target for 2 minutes straight. Not with a 90 degree set of weapons on the kitty carrier at least.
Thing is your dps with those torps is so low that your addition really isn't present. Imagine, my Vorcha or my Escorts shooting a target, with another shooting it too. Now take that same helper and put it with you instead of me. Which one of us is going to murder the victim faster?
Galaxy Xs flew at the same speed and turned like your Atrox. (full spec for agility a high engine power and 3 rcs consoles and it still turned at 9 it's gotten a boost since then but it's still a Pig and I'm glad I discharged that ship years ago) I flew one of those at one time. Trust me, 6 beams is the only way to go on something that's slow. It's easy to do broadsides in arenas man. Just don't think in straight vectors. Think in arcs. Fly at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle and cant your nose just to the side when you head towards your opponents. There you go easy, sustained broadsides.
The slower your ship, the more you NEED beams. not the other way around. You won't find a single person that will argue the point otherwise. WebDeath for example, who is probably the most sage and savvy carrier pilot around will also tell you this. You need to adjust your flying. It's not the beams fault.
Bridge Officers: 1 Lieutenant Tactical, 1 Lieutenant Commander Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Commander Science, 1 Commander Science
So what I'd do is Tac team 1 (which you have) I would then put either attack pattern Delta, or Beta 1 in. (FAW2 is optional but not required given what sci abilities we'll be putting on your ship)
LTC engineer. I would use EPTS1 EPTS2, or EPTS1, RSP1, with Warp Plasma1 or DEM2 (tacs can buff DEM2 to be pretty substantial over it's duration. It certainly will do = damage to what your 2 minutes of T torps were doing.. plus you'll actually be hurting shields with the beam fire still More dmg = more dmg. No two ways about it)
Warp plasma, because ships if you noticed like to park on Fat Ki... Ships backsides. You can pop evasive and engine battery and full reverse with this and catch people. You can also set up zone control against other carriers with this. Also in Arenas you'll probably catch more than your initial target. Even if all you do is force a premature Hazard Burn, that's a 10-20k heal and strong resist that you just denied them. Also, tac damage with warp plasma gets kind of crazy if the enemy doesn't clear it with hazards. If they take the full burn, it really gibs people's durability cycle.
LTC Sci. I would put Tractor Beam1 in your ensign slot here. You need the ability to shut down movement in modern pvp. Otherwise people can and will run rings around you. In Arenas, you have to worry about a great deal more attack vectors than you do in 1v1. Tractor beam helps close those off, and it can be used both offensive, and defensively. (defensive, snare them when you see them ramping up an alpha but still aren't pointing at you, or whoever on your team is about to Eat It) Transfer Shield Strength 2. Third I would put Sci Team 3 here. Sci Team 3s heal especially once you get the Dev Lab Scientists to knock it to it's global is Ridiculous. Especially for us poor tacs. We need every bit of shield we can get. Also it can be thrown to a buddy. Couple it with TSS2 and their shield will definitely linger until an ally can throw Extends around.
Commander Sci. I would consider either Hazard 1 or Polarize hull 1 here. Next up TBR1 as a possiblity.
It does 1k dps with tac buffs boosting it. It does this through shields as well. It also pushes targets away from you, or you can push people away from friendly healing with it. Giving it a triple use.
FPB2. You are going to need -something- even after all of this to keep them off your ship in live matches. FBP2 with tac buffs and full aux is more than enough for this.
Finally I would mount the following (and have alternate bridge crew to swap in and out as needed or until you find out which you like best) Viral Matrix 3, (with 3 doffs? yeah.. this is pretty much a Perma Shut Down you won't get to use it often with your slow speed but it's great for an opener)
Gravity Well 3 (with aftershock doff this is another Ridiculous one. Especially since it gets tac buffed. My Recon's DPS just from GW3 is somewhere around 1500-2800 depending on when I pop my go down fighting and if my doff procs) Again GW3 can be used to either clear spam (so it can shut down enemy carriers), Suck in Fat Ki.. Ships (like Oddys, carriers, bortas) and still do TRIBBLE tons of damage.
And finally, Tractor Beam Repulsors3... mine can do about 2k in my recon per second. Through Shields. It also has a ludicrously strong repel if you are specced for it. Which like TBR1 can be obnoxious. Glorious thing about TBR? Not Arc Depdendant. Also TBR3, unlike PSW3 (though this is still a good choice and is one of the other ways Web Fried Me) has abit more reach out and touch people potential. You also get multiple shots with TBR3.
If you don't want to go with 6 beams try 4. 2 fore and 2 aft. With Chrono torps in your aft section. Chroniton procs are ungodly in their cheese. (and maybe get an alternate tac boff with Torp Spread 2). Upfront mount a Tricobalt. Why a tric? a tric if it lands will give you far more damage per 2 minute cycles than your three constant 2 minute long barrages of T Torps.
Also when I say Can Do. I mean that as a minimum. I've had TBR3 do 13k Crits. And then it Chains Crits. (which means each pulse is a crit on that target. 4 pulses = someone is dead) I have One Passed Bops in my Recon because of TBR3 crit chains. Didn't even use a single other ability. Killed him in one pass, and nearly killed 2 of his friends as well. Had anyone been shooting me at the time I was also running FBP2 I would have probably wiped a whole team with just 2 boff skills and some tac buffs.
Something else to note here. All of those sci skills with the exception of the heals, Grav Well and FBP2 are NOT aux dependent to do damage. Meaning, you can easily run Full to Guns, and murder the **** out of someone with sci skills at the same time, and just use aux bats or switch to an aux setting when you either need heals or FBP2. Also ST3 isn't aux dependent. Giving you a very healthy boost to healing without needing to go to aux.
Also, when you can if you really want to TRIBBLE everyone off switch to Phasers. Their proc is insanely broken. (it's actually worse than it used to be and it was already OP compared to where it was before) It's basically a free miniature non firing arced Viral Matrix that can also pop shields off.
I can train ST3 for you if you want to give the full build a try. Not a partial build, the full thing. I don't think you'll even think about your original builds anymore once you get into the swing of this one. Other than maybe to smile and giggle.
(Trust me we've all had Fail Builds that we thought were Hot Stuff when we first started out It's not something just exclusive to you. Though most of us took the time, to sit down with our friends and enemies alike that were trying to help out and figure out how things work
A Gal X is every bit as fail for a tac especially the old one as the carrier. It turned at -9- WITH Turn rate boosts.
I also fly a Recon. A ship with much the same limitations for dealing damage as your carrier. It has a crappy inertia which makes it's turn rate decieving. It has a grand total of -one- more tac slot than yours. (but yours has an eng slot.. which has a much better choice of damage dealing powers. Warp Plas or DEM2)
I know what you are trying to do. What I don't think you understand your approach has been wrong this whole time.
And if you want to do Damage, then you're going to have to try my loadout. It's LOADED with Damage dealing powers. Your healing potential is much the same, your crowd control increases, and your durability in large matches will actually improve. I don't think you quite grasp what tac buffs do to sci damage skills.
It will work. It will wreck havoc, and you will love it.
You are going to get to do Energy Weapon DPS to supplement. You're doing FAR MORE damage when not being shot at. And you still have FBP2 out of the deal. You are literally losing nothing and gaining everything here man. What about this do you not get?
we have this stuff down to a science, to show up and argue with what we have all seen works best, and what we have seen actually faceroll us is ignorant and arrogant, and its why the regulars have been so harsh. after 2 and a half years, there is nothing new under the sun regarding builds. any changes in game are under 100 micro scopes immediately, it becomes a known quantity in an hour. those sci skills under tac buffs are absolutely as deadly as he says, its arguably the most deadly thing you can encounter in game right now.
and torpedoes, any torpedoes, unless you can fire them as soon as you can reload every time, they have non existent dps. quantums are really the only torp that you don't want fireing as soon as they are ready, they should be saved for alphas. though with HY they bleed more damage then trans torps, hilariously enough. being a shield piercer primarily, if your transphasics arent firing as soon as they reload every time, a turret will deal more bleed damage to the hull then a trans torp will by the time a battle is over. what you give up in constant energy damage dps compared to slotting a torpedo in its place adds up very quickly. the bleed from a beam array with 90% up time will do 100 times the bleed a transphasic will do during the same fight. 1000 every 30 seconds or so is not spike, its not decisive killing blow damage. putting torpedoes on something as slow as a carrier is like equipping tactical consoles that doesn't buff any of the weapons your using.
First.. Doffs:
3x Technician Doffs (Very rare) + 2x Shield Technician Doffs (Very rare)
The technician Doffs reduce the recharge rate of ALL Bridge officer powers.
Granted it won't bring everything down as low as the Sci team doffs, but it will get pretty close.
Here's the Build Idea I have in mind:
Lt Tac: Tac team 1, Beta/Delta 1
Engi LtC: EptS 1, Aux 2 Bat 1, DEM 2
LtC Sci: Tractor Beam 1, HE 2, FBP 2
Cmd Sci: TSS 1, Sci team 2, TBR 2, GW 3
Weapons:
Fore: 3x single Beam array
Aft: 3x Single Beam array or 2x Single Beam array 1x Chrono Mine
Now my math sucks.. and I might be doing this wrong but this would be the recharges on all powers every pop of Aux to bat that you'd be useing:
Tac/Sci team: 21 second cool down
TBR: 28 Second cool down
FBP: 42 Second cool down
GW: 42 second cool down
TSS: 31.5 second cool down
HE: 31.5 Second cool down
Delta/Beta 1: 31.5 Second cool down
(Didn't have Dem to check it's cool down but I know it's very low)
You'd also have to carry Aux Batteries to much on during Aux 2 Bat Down times but if you poped it after using HE, TSS, FBP, or GW you'd probobly be able to switch to weapon power anyway.
I'd use the build Idea my self to test around with it, but I don't have the Doffs needed.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Which parser dd you use ?
How exactly did you manage to come up with the idea that photons out dmg quantums with torp doffs ? lol
Photons are NOT the highest DPS torps...
Quantums are NOT the highest DPS torps...
Phasics... nope there not either.
Better break out your parser bud.
I think once I get some technician doffs I'm going to be rebuilding two of my Recons.
I'm around but I'm not at home so don't have nothing I don't remember around.
Aux to bat is a good idea for a carrier...
If i was going to run a tac carrier... which I would never do however as engi is 10x better in a carrier....
Aux to bat 1 would be on it for sure....
I would use it before every TBR to kill off the push value. I would run things that don't need aux like Scramble... perhaps VM if I could live with the arc issues.... I would run energy weapons.... cause trying to land torps in a boat that doesn't turn would be frustrations galor... not to mention the DPS would suck never being on target... I can keep up to cannon escorts with a torpedo escort on the DPS board... however that is because I can stay on target almost all the time.
With aux to bat... I can't quote times cause I am not home... you have to remember that longer cool down skills (1 min +) you can use aux to bat on twice... you can also keep ONE copy of EPTS up 2 seconds shy of 100% of the time.
DEM ends up being pretty much always on if you are going to run it... I wouldn't on a carrier but on a cruiser its an option for some extra dps.
GW... depending on how strict you are on the role can be aux to batted twice.
VM... can also be aux to batted twice...
Really the best ship to use aux to bat on is a Real Sci Ship... the Recon is the best choice for a tactical in a sci ship hands down. On that ship ya TBR 3 + VM 1 + Gravity well 1 for the win... it menas always on VM (by the time it expires on one target you can reapply very annoying). My tac recon when I was running it would go....
Full aux power -> Tac Buff -> GW 1 + VM 1 -> Aux to Bat -> TBR 3 -> FAW 2 + Tac Team -> ****
I don't think you've come to the realization yet that sci skills are infact sci skills regardless of what ship they are mounted on.
And good (great) powers don't stop being good/great powers just because you're flying another ship.
You simply put don't know how to use abilities yet. What do you think that some how magically TBR, GW3's damage will nerf themselves because you got in a kitty carrier? Or that 6 beams are some how not going to do any dps for you, because you are in a kitty carrier? Or that some how EPTS's resist value changes from ship to ship?
Game mechanics do not work that way.
keep on a facerollin!
Bridge Officers: 1 Lieutenant Tactical, 1 Lieutenant Commander Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Commander Science, 1 Commander Science
So what I'd do is Tac team 1 (which you have) I would then put either attack pattern Delta, or Beta 1 in. (FAW2 is optional but not required given what sci abilities we'll be putting on your ship)
LTC engineer. I would use EPTS1 EPTS2, or EPTS1, RSP1, with Warp Plasma1 or DEM2 (tacs can buff DEM2 to be pretty substantial over it's duration. It certainly will do = damage to what your 2 minutes of T torps were doing.. plus you'll actually be hurting shields with the beam fire still More dmg = more dmg. No two ways about it)
Warp plasma, because ships if you noticed like to park on Fat Ki... Ships backsides. You can pop evasive and engine battery and full reverse with this and catch people. You can also set up zone control against other carriers with this. Also in Arenas you'll probably catch more than your initial target. Even if all you do is force a premature Hazard Burn, that's a 10-20k heal and strong resist that you just denied them. Also, tac damage with warp plasma gets kind of crazy if the enemy doesn't clear it with hazards. If they take the full burn, it really gibs people's durability cycle.
LTC Sci. I would put Tractor Beam1 in your ensign slot here. You need the ability to shut down movement in modern pvp. Otherwise people can and will run rings around you. In Arenas, you have to worry about a great deal more attack vectors than you do in 1v1. Tractor beam helps close those off, and it can be used both offensive, and defensively. (defensive, snare them when you see them ramping up an alpha but still aren't pointing at you, or whoever on your team is about to Eat It) Transfer Shield Strength 2. Third I would put Sci Team 3 here. Sci Team 3s heal especially once you get the Dev Lab Scientists to knock it to it's global is Ridiculous. Especially for us poor tacs. We need every bit of shield we can get. Also it can be thrown to a buddy. Couple it with TSS2 and their shield will definitely linger until an ally can throw Extends around.
Commander Sci. I would consider either Hazard 1 or Polarize hull 1 here. Next up TBR1 as a possiblity.
It does 1k dps with tac buffs boosting it. It does this through shields as well. It also pushes targets away from you, or you can push people away from friendly healing with it. Giving it a triple use.
FPB2. You are going to need -something- even after all of this to keep them off your ship in live matches. FBP2 with tac buffs and full aux is more than enough for this.
Finally I would mount the following (and have alternate bridge crew to swap in and out as needed or until you find out which you like best) Viral Matrix 3, (with 3 doffs? yeah.. this is pretty much a Perma Shut Down you won't get to use it often with your slow speed but it's great for an opener)
Gravity Well 3 (with aftershock doff this is another Ridiculous one. Especially since it gets tac buffed. My Recon's DPS just from GW3 is somewhere around 1500-2800 depending on when I pop my go down fighting and if my doff procs) Again GW3 can be used to either clear spam (so it can shut down enemy carriers), Suck in Fat Ki.. Ships (like Oddys, carriers, bortas) and still do TRIBBLE tons of damage.
And finally, Tractor Beam Repulsors3... mine can do about 2k in my recon per second. Through Shields. It also has a ludicrously strong repel if you are specced for it. Which like TBR1 can be obnoxious. Glorious thing about TBR? Not Arc Depdendant. Also TBR3, unlike PSW3 (though this is still a good choice and is one of the other ways Web Fried Me) has abit more reach out and touch people potential. You also get multiple shots with TBR3.
If you don't want to go with 6 beams try 4. 2 fore and 2 aft. With Chrono torps in your aft section. Chroniton procs are ungodly in their cheese. (and maybe get an alternate tac boff with Torp Spread 2). Upfront mount a Tricobalt. Why a tric? a tric if it lands will give you far more damage per 2 minute cycles than your three constant 2 minute long barrages of T Torps.
Also when I say Can Do. I mean that as a minimum. I've had TBR3 do 13k Crits. And then it Chains Crits. (which means each pulse is a crit on that target. 4 pulses = someone is dead) I have One Passed Bops in my Recon because of TBR3 crit chains. Didn't even use a single other ability. Killed him in one pass, and nearly killed 2 of his friends as well. Had anyone been shooting me at the time I was also running FBP2 I would have probably wiped a whole team with just 2 boff skills and some tac buffs.
Something else to note here. All of those sci skills with the exception of the heals, Grav Well and FBP2 are NOT aux dependent to do damage. Meaning, you can easily run Full to Guns, and murder the **** out of someone with sci skills at the same time, and just use aux bats or switch to an aux setting when you either need heals or FBP2. Also ST3 isn't aux dependent. Giving you a very healthy boost to healing without needing to go to aux.
Also, when you can if you really want to TRIBBLE everyone off switch to Phasers. Their proc is insanely broken. (it's actually worse than it used to be and it was already OP compared to where it was before) It's basically a free miniature non firing arced Viral Matrix that can also pop shields off.
I can train ST3 for you if you want to give the full build a try. Not a partial build, the full thing. I don't think you'll even think about your original builds anymore once you get into the swing of this one. Other than maybe to smile and giggle.
(Trust me we've all had Fail Builds that we thought were Hot Stuff when we first started out It's not something just exclusive to you. Though most of us took the time, to sit down with our friends and enemies alike that were trying to help out and figure out how things work
To correct your miss information... I will post properly tested parser numbers for you tomorrow when I am home...
Seriously though think about it... if you spit a torp ever single second... how the heck does the lower dmg torp with no extra bonuses (like penetration or dots ect) manage to do higher dps again ?
At least you are so obviously wrong I think even newer players see the flaw in the logic.
PS If you are going by Cryptics little DPS tag on the weapons... that is based on standard recharge times... not doff proced recharge times.
Oh Sophie Sophie Sophie...
Don't be upset that I knew you where a girl. Your circular logic reminds me so much of my first 2 wives that your gender was plainly obvious. (no offense to that gender in general).
Oh and everyone knows I'm Qaw... or Hus... Caaa Qaw Sophie.
Up until this post here, I was more then willing to have insightful and helpful conversations to assist in the possible further growth of your game play.
But after this posted replies to Husnakx.. And reading what I read in Organized_PVP.. I'm done.
Sir, you obviously have your head WAY up your TRIBBLE. I've been a nice guy, and I usually try to refrain from bringing my temper to this forum, but **** it. I'm done being nice. Your absoulte disregard for not only helpful information, but this higher then thou additude has definitely got to stop. If you ****ing think that you know more then Husnakx, to respond in such an insulting way that you did, go some place else. We don't want your kind here. You just ranked up there, for me, in the same area as Thegrandnagus. And actually I almost like him better then you at this point.
So go back under your bridge you disgusting little ****tard of a troll. And take that stupid peice of garbage you call a carrier before I decide to go back into my BoP again and start hunting after you every chance I get. And believe me. I can, and will pop that little carrier of yours every time I can. Up until now you've been seeing my helpful and nice side. And with that said.. I leave you with a simple..
GFLL which translates to Get ****ing lost, loser! :mad:
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
YEA what he said. And i am not sure how the thread lasted this long.
you... you cant be this stupid. there has been ships with both a LTC sci station and COM sci station since day 1. it doesn't mater if these abilities are used on your cat box or a recon sci, they do the same thing.
the only difference with your cat box is that it doesn't have the maneuverability to leverage abilities as well as other actual science ships.
cool build tho perhaps I'm wrong
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Think of it.
Two PuG Escorts fly around. Let's call them Ehla and Charo. The see a Carrier. "WTF SPAMMER!" they think. "LOL NO EPTZ! NOOB" they think. "Focus Fire on => Feline Supplement"
CRF and APB/APO start their 10-15 second cycles. Carriers starts its FBP and a bit later RSP and at some point Transfer Shield Strength, firing of Transphasics
30 seconds later he's probably whittled down. But maybe so are the Escorts. 1 dead Atrox, 2 dead Escorts, team Atrox is winning by a 1:2 advantage.
It falls apart if someone throws a subnuke or the Escorts do not repeat the mistake.
And of course, I am not sure if RSP + TSS will really make you last long enough to deal with the Escorts with Transphasics and FBP.
At least with 40 % bleedthrough, the chances are getting better. May be interesting to see the metagame evolve here, if it turns into a problem. Maybe some Escorts will start relying on Evasive DOFFs + 1 EPtS and 1 Aux2SIF? Or everyone will fly Fleet Escort/Armitage?
wow...........sophlogimo, im not even going to read this anymore. i think everyone should stop. mav made a wall of text that i read. i doubt you did. you still act like a prick to people that are being nothing but nice to you. did you notice the change in attitude? they are trying to help. yet your acting like an TRIBBLE. i still cant get how mav of all people still dealing with you. do you know he spends alot of time in chat helping people with questions? actually they all do. im always using a pm on these guys for advice and hoping im not going to annoy them with build advice and questions. unlike you i actually want help. you know it took me close to 300 days just to get my escourt where i want it. i had no help, over 40 respecs. yes i wanted to get it there myself. no i had no 1 there to help me. i did ask a few people a few times but people told me figure it out myself. fine i did and im happy i got it. the engy was easier. its there for healing and some dps. the sci carrier is a thorn in my side. in truth the sci carrier just cant hold up like an escourt or even the oddy. least thats how it seems to me. but these guys take all thier time to help you and you just argure back? are you even looking for help? i doubt it you are.
It took almost 70 pages of look at me posts before I decided you sounded like one of my ex wives and started calling you Sophie.
Anyway... if you can't get 3 torps to hit the global you have bad doffs... 3 purple torp doffs (if that is your main dmg type you should be running 3). Every single torp will hit the global... Chrons I found do sometimes skip one here or there... but really 20% chance x 3... and the fact that each proc will reduce the cool downs on ALL torps loaded means 1 per second is the norm.
Doff Proc Math
1 - ( ( 1 - x ) ^ y )
This tells me that each torp fire has a 48% chance to proc a 5 second reduction.
I know I can fire 3 torps before I run into a cool down with out doffs.... so I get 3 fires at 48% so. In those 3 fires I have a 87% chance to proc one reduction.... so in general with 8 second and faster torps the chances of firing all 3 and having to wait 5 seconds for the next firing round is 12%... really you can count on the doffs with 3 launchers.
There is also a chance that multiple doffs proc on one launcher completely resetting ALL torp tubes.
Now to DPS numbers on torps... I have ran multiple tests in both PvE (where I will run similer spec torps... for my torps generaly crithx3... cause its what I have 3 of every type, I will also use the same ship and same skill load, I even try as best I can to run each run exactly like the last) I run SB24 3 times with each type and average the numbers...
For PvP I have crunched numbers with my Brel torp bop... and yes I have used every type I won't include numbers cause honesty there all over the place... bottom line is in general the pve test numbers hold true for pvp.
Any way drum roll.... Survey says..
First Place
Plasma Highest DPS torpedo
With Spread 3... average 320k dmg in SB24 runs
With no buffs... average 280k dmg in SB24 runs
Second Place
Quantum
With Spread 3.. average 270k dmg
with no buffs... average 220k dmg
Third Place
Photon
With Spread 3... average 250k dmg
with no buffs... average 200k dmg
Fourth Place
Chroniton (there dmg numbers where very close to photon... which is interesting seeing as photon get no prcos)
With Spread 3... average 250k dmg
with no buffs... average 200k dmg
Fifth place
Transphasic
With Spread 3... average 210k dmg
with no buffs... average 160k dmg
One other note on torpedo viability... my SB24 all cannon runs... DPS is almost identical to the plasma torp numbers.
One other note I know I didn't inlcude any pvp numbers for you.. interesting note though unbuffed plasma torps end up with almost as high a dps number as buffed ones in pvp... I would make a pretty safe educated guess that that has to do with the unbuffed version of the torp having a 100% chance to proc the burn proc.
One last note please understand I am not saying plasma is the best torp in every situation hands down... every torp has its uses. (which make torps a ton of fun imo) Plasmas are far from the highest burst dmg torp... I am talking about pure Damage Over Time (DPS) here.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Pretty sure its only energy plasma... could be wrong though... really the burn proc does most of the dmg in pvp and that is right to hull.
If you look at Plasma Torps. They are kinetic damage first. The Plasma Part is a proc, that as Husnakx said, is straight to hull damage. So unless the target has Consoles helping to resist that kind of damage, the Torps proc should burn at the same damage all the time.
Also, that damage does get buffed by buffs/resist debuffs. So if you have Attack Pattern Delta/Beta, Fire on my Mark, A sensor Scan, and tac buffs you can expect the Dot damage to increase as well, obviously.
At least this is how I have witnessed it when in PVP.
*Note: This was a reply to some one else concerning information that I felt was relevent, and not an attempt to further along Sophie's thread.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
why you no like husanak?
he's a pretty rockin dude.
i think you should shut up and take notes kid.
Very true, Husanak is one of the best Players in the game imo and any advice he give you i would listen to.:D
That's actually really interesting, I had no idea the DoT could be buffed too. And resistance-wise, they'd only be affected by kinetics (rather than any type of plasma), right?
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Exactly... the plasma dot is very strong and effective... however understand the dot alone will likely never kill anyone... (outside of extremely dedicated dot builds... like my Full Kinetic Cloaked B'rel... which stays cloaked for more dmg and uses KHG for kinetic buffs ect).
What it is great for however is tons of very good pressure dmg... I will often not be on the focus target with my plasma builds... I will stay on a healer or CC ship and force them to focus on themselves or at the very least use there hazards on themselves.
Plasma heavy teams are also a good counter to Glider teams... as the borg 3 piece shield proc removes dots... glider means no free dot removal.