You apparently misunderstood my question. The description of the skill "Starship Energy Weapons" claims that this skill only increases weapon damage, and nothing else is mentioned.
With only 1 beam weapon (and that one only for the ship's innate subsystem targetting) and operating at full aux, the actual damage of that beam is completely irrelevant anyway, so my reasoning goes that I won't need that skill at all.
But if that very skill also affects Accuracy, that's a different matter entirelly...
no it dont
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
I have never claimed that the transphasics build could, currently, destroy a cruiser with all its potential for hull heals.
My One Hull Heal, which I only used when I was shooting you with FPB3 up, and if an overload fled out from my ship.
Also, Vorchas? It only has 5k more hull than an Escort, and comparable SPs. (I think there's only like a 200 point difference at most in shield totals)
Without me trying to heal, it took you 2 minutes to get me down to 86 percent, of -constant- bombardment. Also in an Arena (totally different animal than 1v1) you will hardly ever get shots off on whoever the primary target is. This is again shooting at a klink ship and not a fed ship which would likely have at least a handful of human boffs to boost passive repair rates. And it's also a ship with a good deal less Defense Score to play with. The Vorcha I built is basically an Obese Escort, it's slower does TRIBBLE tons of damage and utilizes good shield tanking, and warp plasma, to make it capable of speed and survival both while maintaining damage I ate almost all of my eng slots but two. And only one of those extra slots was a hull heal. 1 ET3 the other was RSP (which I won't need to use at all against ships like yours once I do my next respec on my klink I never ranked INsulators).
In 10 seconds on the other hand without using my overload I got you to 75 percent. This is a ship that is using Antiprotons (which have a horrendous miss rate), and only has access to CRF1.
Do you see why I question why you even bother using T torps yet? PS, if you want to try to do bleedthrough damage it might be in your best interest to just use Quantums with highyield. After you factor in HY of T torps vs Q Torps due to how damage multipliers, and crit multipliers work, Quantums can and will do far more bleedthrough.
Your entire offense is entirely too dependent on being Shot At. And your ship can't safely live during those periods. You -need- at least EPTS1 if you plan on actually pvping, and not just playing double fbp in 1v1s. Your ship provides very little reason to be shot at, it does no damage to speak of, it's crowd control is terrible, and all it takes to get you to eat a very large swath of your heals is an escort unloading half his alpha into you and then moving on.
Your previous setup was actually Better than what you have now for arena play.
Over multiple firing cycles yes, however you are in an Atrox. Realistically in Arena play you won't be able to utilize the rapid reload potential of photon torpedoes.
Quantums per shot do the best bleedthrough in the game. (and with Torp Doffs it doesn't matter what the CD is on your torps if you are using torp doffs... so there's no reason to NOT use Quantums)
You will never get the crits out of photons that you can get out of Quantums.
Also when HYT or Torp Spread is factored in the Damage Multipliers make quantums bar none the best at everything.
You really need a log parser man. Or you need to be shown to at least be able to pick through the god awfull unsorted mess of the standard combat log.
This is stuff we all tested time and time again over the last two years.
2 Minutes. for a mere 14 percent hull. (no heal being used on my part either)
Vs. 10 seconds.
You need something with more bite, regardless of what you decide on. Tacs shouldn't be taking 2 minutes just to deal a meager 14 percent damage, with no damage done to shield facings.
Do yourself a favor and get an Atrox. Then try that out. Build one before you give advice.
Thing is your dps with those torps is so low that your addition really isn't present. Imagine, my Vorcha or my Escorts shooting a target, with another shooting it too. Now take that same helper and put it with you instead of me. Which one of us is going to murder the victim faster?
Galaxy Xs flew at the same speed and turned like your Atrox. (full spec for agility a high engine power and 3 rcs consoles and it still turned at 9 it's gotten a boost since then but it's still a Pig and I'm glad I discharged that ship years ago) I flew one of those at one time. Trust me, 6 beams is the only way to go on something that's slow. It's easy to do broadsides in arenas man. Just don't think in straight vectors. Think in arcs. Fly at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle and cant your nose just to the side when you head towards your opponents. There you go easy, sustained broadsides.
The slower your ship, the more you NEED beams. not the other way around. You won't find a single person that will argue the point otherwise. WebDeath for example, who is probably the most sage and savvy carrier pilot around will also tell you this. You need to adjust your flying. It's not the beams fault.
So what I'd do is Tac team 1 (which you have) I would then put either attack pattern Delta, or Beta 1 in. (FAW2 is optional but not required given what sci abilities we'll be putting on your ship)
LTC engineer. I would use EPTS1 EPTS2, or EPTS1, RSP1, with Warp Plasma1 or DEM2 (tacs can buff DEM2 to be pretty substantial over it's duration. It certainly will do = damage to what your 2 minutes of T torps were doing.. plus you'll actually be hurting shields with the beam fire still More dmg = more dmg. No two ways about it)
Warp plasma, because ships if you noticed like to park on Fat Ki... Ships backsides. You can pop evasive and engine battery and full reverse with this and catch people. You can also set up zone control against other carriers with this. Also in Arenas you'll probably catch more than your initial target. Even if all you do is force a premature Hazard Burn, that's a 10-20k heal and strong resist that you just denied them. Also, tac damage with warp plasma gets kind of crazy if the enemy doesn't clear it with hazards. If they take the full burn, it really gibs people's durability cycle.
LTC Sci. I would put Tractor Beam1 in your ensign slot here. You need the ability to shut down movement in modern pvp. Otherwise people can and will run rings around you. In Arenas, you have to worry about a great deal more attack vectors than you do in 1v1. Tractor beam helps close those off, and it can be used both offensive, and defensively. (defensive, snare them when you see them ramping up an alpha but still aren't pointing at you, or whoever on your team is about to Eat It) Transfer Shield Strength 2. Third I would put Sci Team 3 here. Sci Team 3s heal especially once you get the Dev Lab Scientists to knock it to it's global is Ridiculous. Especially for us poor tacs. We need every bit of shield we can get. Also it can be thrown to a buddy. Couple it with TSS2 and their shield will definitely linger until an ally can throw Extends around.
Commander Sci. I would consider either Hazard 1 or Polarize hull 1 here. Next up TBR1 as a possiblity.
It does 1k dps with tac buffs boosting it. It does this through shields as well. It also pushes targets away from you, or you can push people away from friendly healing with it. Giving it a triple use.
FPB2. You are going to need -something- even after all of this to keep them off your ship in live matches. FBP2 with tac buffs and full aux is more than enough for this.
Finally I would mount the following (and have alternate bridge crew to swap in and out as needed or until you find out which you like best) Viral Matrix 3, (with 3 doffs? yeah.. this is pretty much a Perma Shut Down you won't get to use it often with your slow speed but it's great for an opener)
Gravity Well 3 (with aftershock doff this is another Ridiculous one. Especially since it gets tac buffed. My Recon's DPS just from GW3 is somewhere around 1500-2800 depending on when I pop my go down fighting and if my doff procs) Again GW3 can be used to either clear spam (so it can shut down enemy carriers), Suck in Fat Ki.. Ships (like Oddys, carriers, bortas) and still do TRIBBLE tons of damage.
And finally, Tractor Beam Repulsors3... mine can do about 2k in my recon per second. Through Shields. It also has a ludicrously strong repel if you are specced for it. Which like TBR1 can be obnoxious. Glorious thing about TBR? Not Arc Depdendant. Also TBR3, unlike PSW3 (though this is still a good choice and is one of the other ways Web Fried Me) has abit more reach out and touch people potential. You also get multiple shots with TBR3.
If you don't want to go with 6 beams try 4. 2 fore and 2 aft. With Chrono torps in your aft section. Chroniton procs are ungodly in their cheese. (and maybe get an alternate tac boff with Torp Spread 2). Upfront mount a Tricobalt. Why a tric? a tric if it lands will give you far more damage per 2 minute cycles than your three constant 2 minute long barrages of T Torps.
Also when I say Can Do. I mean that as a minimum. I've had TBR3 do 13k Crits. And then it Chains Crits. (which means each pulse is a crit on that target. 4 pulses = someone is dead) I have One Passed Bops in my Recon because of TBR3 crit chains. Didn't even use a single other ability. Killed him in one pass, and nearly killed 2 of his friends as well. Had anyone been shooting me at the time I was also running FBP2 I would have probably wiped a whole team with just 2 boff skills and some tac buffs.
Something else to note here. All of those sci skills with the exception of the heals, Grav Well and FBP2 are NOT aux dependent to do damage. Meaning, you can easily run Full to Guns, and murder the **** out of someone with sci skills at the same time, and just use aux bats or switch to an aux setting when you either need heals or FBP2. Also ST3 isn't aux dependent. Giving you a very healthy boost to healing without needing to go to aux.
Also, when you can if you really want to TRIBBLE everyone off switch to Phasers. Their proc is insanely broken. (it's actually worse than it used to be and it was already OP compared to where it was before) It's basically a free miniature non firing arced Viral Matrix that can also pop shields off.
I can train ST3 for you if you want to give the full build a try. Not a partial build, the full thing. I don't think you'll even think about your original builds anymore once you get into the swing of this one. Other than maybe to smile and giggle.
(Trust me we've all had Fail Builds that we thought were Hot Stuff when we first started out It's not something just exclusive to you. Though most of us took the time, to sit down with our friends and enemies alike that were trying to help out and figure out how things work )
A gal X is no sci boff layout ship. So go, get an Atrox, test your little theory.
As a general comment: You got it backwards. I am not looking for the best ship for my captain. Instead, I have a carrier and want it to do damage.
Yes, for the thousandth time, I know that this is not optimal. But it's fun.
A Gal X is every bit as fail for a tac especially the old one as the carrier. It turned at -9- WITH Turn rate boosts.
I also fly a Recon. A ship with much the same limitations for dealing damage as your carrier. It has a crappy inertia which makes it's turn rate decieving. It has a grand total of -one- more tac slot than yours. (but yours has an eng slot.. which has a much better choice of damage dealing powers. Warp Plas or DEM2)
I know what you are trying to do. What I don't think you understand your approach has been wrong this whole time.
And if you want to do Damage, then you're going to have to try my loadout. It's LOADED with Damage dealing powers. Your healing potential is much the same, your crowd control increases, and your durability in large matches will actually improve. I don't think you quite grasp what tac buffs do to sci damage skills.
It will work. It will wreck havoc, and you will love it.
You are going to get to do Energy Weapon DPS to supplement. You're doing FAR MORE damage when not being shot at. And you still have FBP2 out of the deal. You are literally losing nothing and gaining everything here man. What about this do you not get?
i truly hope you got through to him this time. this information is simply the truth, we have had 2 and a half years to figure out every possible combination of things. at face value a tac in a science ship sounds silly, but this info about that match up proves that we have literally tried everything.
we have this stuff down to a science, to show up and argue with what we have all seen works best, and what we have seen actually faceroll us is ignorant and arrogant, and its why the regulars have been so harsh. after 2 and a half years, there is nothing new under the sun regarding builds. any changes in game are under 100 micro scopes immediately, it becomes a known quantity in an hour. those sci skills under tac buffs are absolutely as deadly as he says, its arguably the most deadly thing you can encounter in game right now.
and torpedoes, any torpedoes, unless you can fire them as soon as you can reload every time, they have non existent dps. quantums are really the only torp that you don't want fireing as soon as they are ready, they should be saved for alphas. though with HY they bleed more damage then trans torps, hilariously enough. being a shield piercer primarily, if your transphasics arent firing as soon as they reload every time, a turret will deal more bleed damage to the hull then a trans torp will by the time a battle is over. what you give up in constant energy damage dps compared to slotting a torpedo in its place adds up very quickly. the bleed from a beam array with 90% up time will do 100 times the bleed a transphasic will do during the same fight. 1000 every 30 seconds or so is not spike, its not decisive killing blow damage. putting torpedoes on something as slow as a carrier is like equipping tactical consoles that doesn't buff any of the weapons your using.
The technician Doffs reduce the recharge rate of ALL Bridge officer powers.
Granted it won't bring everything down as low as the Sci team doffs, but it will get pretty close.
Here's the Build Idea I have in mind:
Lt Tac: Tac team 1, Beta/Delta 1
Engi LtC: EptS 1, Aux 2 Bat 1, DEM 2
LtC Sci: Tractor Beam 1, HE 2, FBP 2
Cmd Sci: TSS 1, Sci team 2, TBR 2, GW 3
Weapons:
Fore: 3x single Beam array
Aft: 3x Single Beam array or 2x Single Beam array 1x Chrono Mine
Now my math sucks.. and I might be doing this wrong but this would be the recharges on all powers every pop of Aux to bat that you'd be useing:
Tac/Sci team: 21 second cool down
TBR: 28 Second cool down
FBP: 42 Second cool down
GW: 42 second cool down
TSS: 31.5 second cool down
HE: 31.5 Second cool down
Delta/Beta 1: 31.5 Second cool down
(Didn't have Dem to check it's cool down but I know it's very low)
You'd also have to carry Aux Batteries to much on during Aux 2 Bat Down times but if you poped it after using HE, TSS, FBP, or GW you'd probobly be able to switch to weapon power anyway.
I'd use the build Idea my self to test around with it, but I don't have the Doffs needed. Being Lazy.. having 9 Toons.. = Not enough good Doffs to test these things out. Where's husnakx when I need him.. I know he's done a TON of Aux2bat Tests! :frown:
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
The technician Doffs reduce the recharge rate of ALL Bridge officer powers.
Granted it won't bring everything down as low as the Sci team doffs, but it will get pretty close.
Here's the Build Idea I have in mind:
Lt Tac: Tac team 1, Beta/Delta 1
Engi LtC: EptS 1, Aux 2 Bat 1, DEM 2
LtC Sci: Tractor Beam 1, HE 2, FBP 2
Cmd Sci: TSS 1, Sci team 2, TBR 2, GW 3
Weapons:
Fore: 3x single Beam array
Aft: 3x Single Beam array or 2x Single Beam array 1x Chrono Mine
Now my math sucks.. and I might be doing this wrong but this would be the recharges on all powers every pop of Aux to bat that you'd be useing:
Tac/Sci team: 21 second cool down
TBR: 28 Second cool down
FBP: 42 Second cool down
GW: 42 second cool down
TSS: 31.5 second cool down
HE: 31.5 Second cool down
Delta/Beta 1: 31.5 Second cool down
(Didn't have Dem to check it's cool down but I know it's very low)
You'd also have to carry Aux Batteries to much on during Aux 2 Bat Down times but if you poped it after using HE, TSS, FBP, or GW you'd probobly be able to switch to weapon power anyway.
I'd use the build Idea my self to test around with it, but I don't have the Doffs needed. Being Lazy.. having 9 Toons.. = Not enough good Doffs to test these things out. Where's husnakx when I need him.. I know he's done a TON of Aux2bat Tests! :frown:
I think once I get some technician doffs I'm going to be rebuilding two of my Recons.
I'd use the build Idea my self to test around with it, but I don't have the Doffs needed. Being Lazy.. having 9 Toons.. = Not enough good Doffs to test these things out. Where's husnakx when I need him.. I know he's done a TON of Aux2bat Tests! :frown:
I'm around but I'm not at home so don't have nothing I don't remember around.
Aux to bat is a good idea for a carrier...
If i was going to run a tac carrier... which I would never do however as engi is 10x better in a carrier....
Aux to bat 1 would be on it for sure....
I would use it before every TBR to kill off the push value. I would run things that don't need aux like Scramble... perhaps VM if I could live with the arc issues.... I would run energy weapons.... cause trying to land torps in a boat that doesn't turn would be frustrations galor... not to mention the DPS would suck never being on target... I can keep up to cannon escorts with a torpedo escort on the DPS board... however that is because I can stay on target almost all the time.
With aux to bat... I can't quote times cause I am not home... you have to remember that longer cool down skills (1 min +) you can use aux to bat on twice... you can also keep ONE copy of EPTS up 2 seconds shy of 100% of the time.
DEM ends up being pretty much always on if you are going to run it... I wouldn't on a carrier but on a cruiser its an option for some extra dps.
GW... depending on how strict you are on the role can be aux to batted twice.
VM... can also be aux to batted twice...
Really the best ship to use aux to bat on is a Real Sci Ship... the Recon is the best choice for a tactical in a sci ship hands down. On that ship ya TBR 3 + VM 1 + Gravity well 1 for the win... it menas always on VM (by the time it expires on one target you can reapply very annoying). My tac recon when I was running it would go....
Full aux power -> Tac Buff -> GW 1 + VM 1 -> Aux to Bat -> TBR 3 -> FAW 2 + Tac Team -> ****
So you have 2 and a half years experience with an Atrox. Interesting. How did you do that?
I don't think you've come to the realization yet that sci skills are infact sci skills regardless of what ship they are mounted on.
And good (great) powers don't stop being good/great powers just because you're flying another ship.
You simply put don't know how to use abilities yet. What do you think that some how magically TBR, GW3's damage will nerf themselves because you got in a kitty carrier? Or that 6 beams are some how not going to do any dps for you, because you are in a kitty carrier? Or that some how EPTS's resist value changes from ship to ship?
So what I'd do is Tac team 1 (which you have) I would then put either attack pattern Delta, or Beta 1 in. (FAW2 is optional but not required given what sci abilities we'll be putting on your ship)
LTC engineer. I would use EPTS1 EPTS2, or EPTS1, RSP1, with Warp Plasma1 or DEM2 (tacs can buff DEM2 to be pretty substantial over it's duration. It certainly will do = damage to what your 2 minutes of T torps were doing.. plus you'll actually be hurting shields with the beam fire still More dmg = more dmg. No two ways about it)
Warp plasma, because ships if you noticed like to park on Fat Ki... Ships backsides. You can pop evasive and engine battery and full reverse with this and catch people. You can also set up zone control against other carriers with this. Also in Arenas you'll probably catch more than your initial target. Even if all you do is force a premature Hazard Burn, that's a 10-20k heal and strong resist that you just denied them. Also, tac damage with warp plasma gets kind of crazy if the enemy doesn't clear it with hazards. If they take the full burn, it really gibs people's durability cycle.
LTC Sci. I would put Tractor Beam1 in your ensign slot here. You need the ability to shut down movement in modern pvp. Otherwise people can and will run rings around you. In Arenas, you have to worry about a great deal more attack vectors than you do in 1v1. Tractor beam helps close those off, and it can be used both offensive, and defensively. (defensive, snare them when you see them ramping up an alpha but still aren't pointing at you, or whoever on your team is about to Eat It) Transfer Shield Strength 2. Third I would put Sci Team 3 here. Sci Team 3s heal especially once you get the Dev Lab Scientists to knock it to it's global is Ridiculous. Especially for us poor tacs. We need every bit of shield we can get. Also it can be thrown to a buddy. Couple it with TSS2 and their shield will definitely linger until an ally can throw Extends around.
Commander Sci. I would consider either Hazard 1 or Polarize hull 1 here. Next up TBR1 as a possiblity.
It does 1k dps with tac buffs boosting it. It does this through shields as well. It also pushes targets away from you, or you can push people away from friendly healing with it. Giving it a triple use.
FPB2. You are going to need -something- even after all of this to keep them off your ship in live matches. FBP2 with tac buffs and full aux is more than enough for this.
Finally I would mount the following (and have alternate bridge crew to swap in and out as needed or until you find out which you like best) Viral Matrix 3, (with 3 doffs? yeah.. this is pretty much a Perma Shut Down you won't get to use it often with your slow speed but it's great for an opener)
Gravity Well 3 (with aftershock doff this is another Ridiculous one. Especially since it gets tac buffed. My Recon's DPS just from GW3 is somewhere around 1500-2800 depending on when I pop my go down fighting and if my doff procs) Again GW3 can be used to either clear spam (so it can shut down enemy carriers), Suck in Fat Ki.. Ships (like Oddys, carriers, bortas) and still do TRIBBLE tons of damage.
And finally, Tractor Beam Repulsors3... mine can do about 2k in my recon per second. Through Shields. It also has a ludicrously strong repel if you are specced for it. Which like TBR1 can be obnoxious. Glorious thing about TBR? Not Arc Depdendant. Also TBR3, unlike PSW3 (though this is still a good choice and is one of the other ways Web Fried Me) has abit more reach out and touch people potential. You also get multiple shots with TBR3.
If you don't want to go with 6 beams try 4. 2 fore and 2 aft. With Chrono torps in your aft section. Chroniton procs are ungodly in their cheese. (and maybe get an alternate tac boff with Torp Spread 2). Upfront mount a Tricobalt. Why a tric? a tric if it lands will give you far more damage per 2 minute cycles than your three constant 2 minute long barrages of T Torps.
Also when I say Can Do. I mean that as a minimum. I've had TBR3 do 13k Crits. And then it Chains Crits. (which means each pulse is a crit on that target. 4 pulses = someone is dead) I have One Passed Bops in my Recon because of TBR3 crit chains. Didn't even use a single other ability. Killed him in one pass, and nearly killed 2 of his friends as well. Had anyone been shooting me at the time I was also running FBP2 I would have probably wiped a whole team with just 2 boff skills and some tac buffs.
Something else to note here. All of those sci skills with the exception of the heals, Grav Well and FBP2 are NOT aux dependent to do damage. Meaning, you can easily run Full to Guns, and murder the **** out of someone with sci skills at the same time, and just use aux bats or switch to an aux setting when you either need heals or FBP2. Also ST3 isn't aux dependent. Giving you a very healthy boost to healing without needing to go to aux.
Also, when you can if you really want to TRIBBLE everyone off switch to Phasers. Their proc is insanely broken. (it's actually worse than it used to be and it was already OP compared to where it was before) It's basically a free miniature non firing arced Viral Matrix that can also pop shields off.
I can train ST3 for you if you want to give the full build a try. Not a partial build, the full thing. I don't think you'll even think about your original builds anymore once you get into the swing of this one. Other than maybe to smile and giggle.
(Trust me we've all had Fail Builds that we thought were Hot Stuff when we first started out It's not something just exclusive to you. Though most of us took the time, to sit down with our friends and enemies alike that were trying to help out and figure out how things work )
And Hussi, stop inventing nicknames for people. You are about as good at it as I am.
To correct your miss information... I will post properly tested parser numbers for you tomorrow when I am home...
Seriously though think about it... if you spit a torp ever single second... how the heck does the lower dmg torp with no extra bonuses (like penetration or dots ect) manage to do higher dps again ?
At least you are so obviously wrong I think even newer players see the flaw in the logic.
PS If you are going by Cryptics little DPS tag on the weapons... that is based on standard recharge times... not doff proced recharge times.
And Hussi, stop inventing nicknames for people. You are about as good at it as I am.
Oh Sophie Sophie Sophie...
Don't be upset that I knew you where a girl. Your circular logic reminds me so much of my first 2 wives that your gender was plainly obvious. (no offense to that gender in general).
Oh and everyone knows I'm Qaw... or Hus... Caaa Qaw Sophie.
And Hussi, stop inventing nicknames for people. You are about as good at it as I am.
Up until this post here, I was more then willing to have insightful and helpful conversations to assist in the possible further growth of your game play.
But after this posted replies to Husnakx.. And reading what I read in Organized_PVP.. I'm done.
Sir, you obviously have your head WAY up your TRIBBLE. I've been a nice guy, and I usually try to refrain from bringing my temper to this forum, but **** it. I'm done being nice. Your absoulte disregard for not only helpful information, but this higher then thou additude has definitely got to stop. If you ****ing think that you know more then Husnakx, to respond in such an insulting way that you did, go some place else. We don't want your kind here. You just ranked up there, for me, in the same area as Thegrandnagus. And actually I almost like him better then you at this point.
So go back under your bridge you disgusting little ****tard of a troll. And take that stupid peice of garbage you call a carrier before I decide to go back into my BoP again and start hunting after you every chance I get. And believe me. I can, and will pop that little carrier of yours every time I can. Up until now you've been seeing my helpful and nice side. And with that said.. I leave you with a simple..
GFLL which translates to Get ****ing lost, loser! :mad:
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Comments
no it dont
Its the Mo-ped of STO.
R.I.P
My One Hull Heal, which I only used when I was shooting you with FPB3 up, and if an overload fled out from my ship.
Also, Vorchas? It only has 5k more hull than an Escort, and comparable SPs. (I think there's only like a 200 point difference at most in shield totals)
Without me trying to heal, it took you 2 minutes to get me down to 86 percent, of -constant- bombardment. Also in an Arena (totally different animal than 1v1) you will hardly ever get shots off on whoever the primary target is. This is again shooting at a klink ship and not a fed ship which would likely have at least a handful of human boffs to boost passive repair rates. And it's also a ship with a good deal less Defense Score to play with. The Vorcha I built is basically an Obese Escort, it's slower does TRIBBLE tons of damage and utilizes good shield tanking, and warp plasma, to make it capable of speed and survival both while maintaining damage I ate almost all of my eng slots but two. And only one of those extra slots was a hull heal. 1 ET3 the other was RSP (which I won't need to use at all against ships like yours once I do my next respec on my klink I never ranked INsulators).
In 10 seconds on the other hand without using my overload I got you to 75 percent. This is a ship that is using Antiprotons (which have a horrendous miss rate), and only has access to CRF1.
Do you see why I question why you even bother using T torps yet? PS, if you want to try to do bleedthrough damage it might be in your best interest to just use Quantums with highyield. After you factor in HY of T torps vs Q Torps due to how damage multipliers, and crit multipliers work, Quantums can and will do far more bleedthrough.
Your entire offense is entirely too dependent on being Shot At. And your ship can't safely live during those periods. You -need- at least EPTS1 if you plan on actually pvping, and not just playing double fbp in 1v1s. Your ship provides very little reason to be shot at, it does no damage to speak of, it's crowd control is terrible, and all it takes to get you to eat a very large swath of your heals is an escort unloading half his alpha into you and then moving on.
Your previous setup was actually Better than what you have now for arena play.
Quantums per shot do the best bleedthrough in the game. (and with Torp Doffs it doesn't matter what the CD is on your torps if you are using torp doffs... so there's no reason to NOT use Quantums)
You will never get the crits out of photons that you can get out of Quantums.
Also when HYT or Torp Spread is factored in the Damage Multipliers make quantums bar none the best at everything.
You really need a log parser man. Or you need to be shown to at least be able to pick through the god awfull unsorted mess of the standard combat log.
This is stuff we all tested time and time again over the last two years.
I'm talking full on Arenas.
Or even 3v3s.
Also T Torps again do -less- bleedthrough than Quantums due to their inferior damage multiplier. Especially when HYT or tac buffs are factored in.
Also you saw how long it took you. 2 minutes.
2 Minutes. for a mere 14 percent hull. (no heal being used on my part either)
Vs. 10 seconds.
You need something with more bite, regardless of what you decide on. Tacs shouldn't be taking 2 minutes just to deal a meager 14 percent damage, with no damage done to shield facings.
In a full on arena you won't be shooting the same target for 2 minutes straight. Not with a 90 degree set of weapons on the kitty carrier at least.
Thing is your dps with those torps is so low that your addition really isn't present. Imagine, my Vorcha or my Escorts shooting a target, with another shooting it too. Now take that same helper and put it with you instead of me. Which one of us is going to murder the victim faster?
Galaxy Xs flew at the same speed and turned like your Atrox. (full spec for agility a high engine power and 3 rcs consoles and it still turned at 9 it's gotten a boost since then but it's still a Pig and I'm glad I discharged that ship years ago) I flew one of those at one time. Trust me, 6 beams is the only way to go on something that's slow. It's easy to do broadsides in arenas man. Just don't think in straight vectors. Think in arcs. Fly at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle and cant your nose just to the side when you head towards your opponents. There you go easy, sustained broadsides.
The slower your ship, the more you NEED beams. not the other way around. You won't find a single person that will argue the point otherwise. WebDeath for example, who is probably the most sage and savvy carrier pilot around will also tell you this. You need to adjust your flying. It's not the beams fault.
Bridge Officers: 1 Lieutenant Tactical, 1 Lieutenant Commander Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Commander Science, 1 Commander Science
So what I'd do is Tac team 1 (which you have) I would then put either attack pattern Delta, or Beta 1 in. (FAW2 is optional but not required given what sci abilities we'll be putting on your ship)
LTC engineer. I would use EPTS1 EPTS2, or EPTS1, RSP1, with Warp Plasma1 or DEM2 (tacs can buff DEM2 to be pretty substantial over it's duration. It certainly will do = damage to what your 2 minutes of T torps were doing.. plus you'll actually be hurting shields with the beam fire still More dmg = more dmg. No two ways about it)
Warp plasma, because ships if you noticed like to park on Fat Ki... Ships backsides. You can pop evasive and engine battery and full reverse with this and catch people. You can also set up zone control against other carriers with this. Also in Arenas you'll probably catch more than your initial target. Even if all you do is force a premature Hazard Burn, that's a 10-20k heal and strong resist that you just denied them. Also, tac damage with warp plasma gets kind of crazy if the enemy doesn't clear it with hazards. If they take the full burn, it really gibs people's durability cycle.
LTC Sci. I would put Tractor Beam1 in your ensign slot here. You need the ability to shut down movement in modern pvp. Otherwise people can and will run rings around you. In Arenas, you have to worry about a great deal more attack vectors than you do in 1v1. Tractor beam helps close those off, and it can be used both offensive, and defensively. (defensive, snare them when you see them ramping up an alpha but still aren't pointing at you, or whoever on your team is about to Eat It) Transfer Shield Strength 2. Third I would put Sci Team 3 here. Sci Team 3s heal especially once you get the Dev Lab Scientists to knock it to it's global is Ridiculous. Especially for us poor tacs. We need every bit of shield we can get. Also it can be thrown to a buddy. Couple it with TSS2 and their shield will definitely linger until an ally can throw Extends around.
Commander Sci. I would consider either Hazard 1 or Polarize hull 1 here. Next up TBR1 as a possiblity.
It does 1k dps with tac buffs boosting it. It does this through shields as well. It also pushes targets away from you, or you can push people away from friendly healing with it. Giving it a triple use.
FPB2. You are going to need -something- even after all of this to keep them off your ship in live matches. FBP2 with tac buffs and full aux is more than enough for this.
Finally I would mount the following (and have alternate bridge crew to swap in and out as needed or until you find out which you like best) Viral Matrix 3, (with 3 doffs? yeah.. this is pretty much a Perma Shut Down you won't get to use it often with your slow speed but it's great for an opener)
Gravity Well 3 (with aftershock doff this is another Ridiculous one. Especially since it gets tac buffed. My Recon's DPS just from GW3 is somewhere around 1500-2800 depending on when I pop my go down fighting and if my doff procs) Again GW3 can be used to either clear spam (so it can shut down enemy carriers), Suck in Fat Ki.. Ships (like Oddys, carriers, bortas) and still do TRIBBLE tons of damage.
And finally, Tractor Beam Repulsors3... mine can do about 2k in my recon per second. Through Shields. It also has a ludicrously strong repel if you are specced for it. Which like TBR1 can be obnoxious. Glorious thing about TBR? Not Arc Depdendant. Also TBR3, unlike PSW3 (though this is still a good choice and is one of the other ways Web Fried Me) has abit more reach out and touch people potential. You also get multiple shots with TBR3.
If you don't want to go with 6 beams try 4. 2 fore and 2 aft. With Chrono torps in your aft section. Chroniton procs are ungodly in their cheese. (and maybe get an alternate tac boff with Torp Spread 2). Upfront mount a Tricobalt. Why a tric? a tric if it lands will give you far more damage per 2 minute cycles than your three constant 2 minute long barrages of T Torps.
Also when I say Can Do. I mean that as a minimum. I've had TBR3 do 13k Crits. And then it Chains Crits. (which means each pulse is a crit on that target. 4 pulses = someone is dead) I have One Passed Bops in my Recon because of TBR3 crit chains. Didn't even use a single other ability. Killed him in one pass, and nearly killed 2 of his friends as well. Had anyone been shooting me at the time I was also running FBP2 I would have probably wiped a whole team with just 2 boff skills and some tac buffs.
Something else to note here. All of those sci skills with the exception of the heals, Grav Well and FBP2 are NOT aux dependent to do damage. Meaning, you can easily run Full to Guns, and murder the **** out of someone with sci skills at the same time, and just use aux bats or switch to an aux setting when you either need heals or FBP2. Also ST3 isn't aux dependent. Giving you a very healthy boost to healing without needing to go to aux.
Also, when you can if you really want to TRIBBLE everyone off switch to Phasers. Their proc is insanely broken. (it's actually worse than it used to be and it was already OP compared to where it was before) It's basically a free miniature non firing arced Viral Matrix that can also pop shields off.
I can train ST3 for you if you want to give the full build a try. Not a partial build, the full thing. I don't think you'll even think about your original builds anymore once you get into the swing of this one. Other than maybe to smile and giggle.
(Trust me we've all had Fail Builds that we thought were Hot Stuff when we first started out It's not something just exclusive to you. Though most of us took the time, to sit down with our friends and enemies alike that were trying to help out and figure out how things work
A Gal X is every bit as fail for a tac especially the old one as the carrier. It turned at -9- WITH Turn rate boosts.
I also fly a Recon. A ship with much the same limitations for dealing damage as your carrier. It has a crappy inertia which makes it's turn rate decieving. It has a grand total of -one- more tac slot than yours. (but yours has an eng slot.. which has a much better choice of damage dealing powers. Warp Plas or DEM2)
I know what you are trying to do. What I don't think you understand your approach has been wrong this whole time.
And if you want to do Damage, then you're going to have to try my loadout. It's LOADED with Damage dealing powers. Your healing potential is much the same, your crowd control increases, and your durability in large matches will actually improve. I don't think you quite grasp what tac buffs do to sci damage skills.
It will work. It will wreck havoc, and you will love it.
You are going to get to do Energy Weapon DPS to supplement. You're doing FAR MORE damage when not being shot at. And you still have FBP2 out of the deal. You are literally losing nothing and gaining everything here man. What about this do you not get?
we have this stuff down to a science, to show up and argue with what we have all seen works best, and what we have seen actually faceroll us is ignorant and arrogant, and its why the regulars have been so harsh. after 2 and a half years, there is nothing new under the sun regarding builds. any changes in game are under 100 micro scopes immediately, it becomes a known quantity in an hour. those sci skills under tac buffs are absolutely as deadly as he says, its arguably the most deadly thing you can encounter in game right now.
and torpedoes, any torpedoes, unless you can fire them as soon as you can reload every time, they have non existent dps. quantums are really the only torp that you don't want fireing as soon as they are ready, they should be saved for alphas. though with HY they bleed more damage then trans torps, hilariously enough. being a shield piercer primarily, if your transphasics arent firing as soon as they reload every time, a turret will deal more bleed damage to the hull then a trans torp will by the time a battle is over. what you give up in constant energy damage dps compared to slotting a torpedo in its place adds up very quickly. the bleed from a beam array with 90% up time will do 100 times the bleed a transphasic will do during the same fight. 1000 every 30 seconds or so is not spike, its not decisive killing blow damage. putting torpedoes on something as slow as a carrier is like equipping tactical consoles that doesn't buff any of the weapons your using.
First.. Doffs:
3x Technician Doffs (Very rare) + 2x Shield Technician Doffs (Very rare)
The technician Doffs reduce the recharge rate of ALL Bridge officer powers.
Granted it won't bring everything down as low as the Sci team doffs, but it will get pretty close.
Here's the Build Idea I have in mind:
Lt Tac: Tac team 1, Beta/Delta 1
Engi LtC: EptS 1, Aux 2 Bat 1, DEM 2
LtC Sci: Tractor Beam 1, HE 2, FBP 2
Cmd Sci: TSS 1, Sci team 2, TBR 2, GW 3
Weapons:
Fore: 3x single Beam array
Aft: 3x Single Beam array or 2x Single Beam array 1x Chrono Mine
Now my math sucks.. and I might be doing this wrong but this would be the recharges on all powers every pop of Aux to bat that you'd be useing:
Tac/Sci team: 21 second cool down
TBR: 28 Second cool down
FBP: 42 Second cool down
GW: 42 second cool down
TSS: 31.5 second cool down
HE: 31.5 Second cool down
Delta/Beta 1: 31.5 Second cool down
(Didn't have Dem to check it's cool down but I know it's very low)
You'd also have to carry Aux Batteries to much on during Aux 2 Bat Down times but if you poped it after using HE, TSS, FBP, or GW you'd probobly be able to switch to weapon power anyway.
I'd use the build Idea my self to test around with it, but I don't have the Doffs needed.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Which parser dd you use ?
How exactly did you manage to come up with the idea that photons out dmg quantums with torp doffs ? lol
Photons are NOT the highest DPS torps...
Quantums are NOT the highest DPS torps...
Phasics... nope there not either.
Better break out your parser bud.
I think once I get some technician doffs I'm going to be rebuilding two of my Recons.
I'm around but I'm not at home so don't have nothing I don't remember around.
Aux to bat is a good idea for a carrier...
If i was going to run a tac carrier... which I would never do however as engi is 10x better in a carrier....
Aux to bat 1 would be on it for sure....
I would use it before every TBR to kill off the push value. I would run things that don't need aux like Scramble... perhaps VM if I could live with the arc issues.... I would run energy weapons.... cause trying to land torps in a boat that doesn't turn would be frustrations galor... not to mention the DPS would suck never being on target... I can keep up to cannon escorts with a torpedo escort on the DPS board... however that is because I can stay on target almost all the time.
With aux to bat... I can't quote times cause I am not home... you have to remember that longer cool down skills (1 min +) you can use aux to bat on twice... you can also keep ONE copy of EPTS up 2 seconds shy of 100% of the time.
DEM ends up being pretty much always on if you are going to run it... I wouldn't on a carrier but on a cruiser its an option for some extra dps.
GW... depending on how strict you are on the role can be aux to batted twice.
VM... can also be aux to batted twice...
Really the best ship to use aux to bat on is a Real Sci Ship... the Recon is the best choice for a tactical in a sci ship hands down. On that ship ya TBR 3 + VM 1 + Gravity well 1 for the win... it menas always on VM (by the time it expires on one target you can reapply very annoying). My tac recon when I was running it would go....
Full aux power -> Tac Buff -> GW 1 + VM 1 -> Aux to Bat -> TBR 3 -> FAW 2 + Tac Team -> ****
I don't think you've come to the realization yet that sci skills are infact sci skills regardless of what ship they are mounted on.
And good (great) powers don't stop being good/great powers just because you're flying another ship.
You simply put don't know how to use abilities yet. What do you think that some how magically TBR, GW3's damage will nerf themselves because you got in a kitty carrier? Or that 6 beams are some how not going to do any dps for you, because you are in a kitty carrier? Or that some how EPTS's resist value changes from ship to ship?
Game mechanics do not work that way.
keep on a facerollin!
Bridge Officers: 1 Lieutenant Tactical, 1 Lieutenant Commander Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Commander Science, 1 Commander Science
So what I'd do is Tac team 1 (which you have) I would then put either attack pattern Delta, or Beta 1 in. (FAW2 is optional but not required given what sci abilities we'll be putting on your ship)
LTC engineer. I would use EPTS1 EPTS2, or EPTS1, RSP1, with Warp Plasma1 or DEM2 (tacs can buff DEM2 to be pretty substantial over it's duration. It certainly will do = damage to what your 2 minutes of T torps were doing.. plus you'll actually be hurting shields with the beam fire still More dmg = more dmg. No two ways about it)
Warp plasma, because ships if you noticed like to park on Fat Ki... Ships backsides. You can pop evasive and engine battery and full reverse with this and catch people. You can also set up zone control against other carriers with this. Also in Arenas you'll probably catch more than your initial target. Even if all you do is force a premature Hazard Burn, that's a 10-20k heal and strong resist that you just denied them. Also, tac damage with warp plasma gets kind of crazy if the enemy doesn't clear it with hazards. If they take the full burn, it really gibs people's durability cycle.
LTC Sci. I would put Tractor Beam1 in your ensign slot here. You need the ability to shut down movement in modern pvp. Otherwise people can and will run rings around you. In Arenas, you have to worry about a great deal more attack vectors than you do in 1v1. Tractor beam helps close those off, and it can be used both offensive, and defensively. (defensive, snare them when you see them ramping up an alpha but still aren't pointing at you, or whoever on your team is about to Eat It) Transfer Shield Strength 2. Third I would put Sci Team 3 here. Sci Team 3s heal especially once you get the Dev Lab Scientists to knock it to it's global is Ridiculous. Especially for us poor tacs. We need every bit of shield we can get. Also it can be thrown to a buddy. Couple it with TSS2 and their shield will definitely linger until an ally can throw Extends around.
Commander Sci. I would consider either Hazard 1 or Polarize hull 1 here. Next up TBR1 as a possiblity.
It does 1k dps with tac buffs boosting it. It does this through shields as well. It also pushes targets away from you, or you can push people away from friendly healing with it. Giving it a triple use.
FPB2. You are going to need -something- even after all of this to keep them off your ship in live matches. FBP2 with tac buffs and full aux is more than enough for this.
Finally I would mount the following (and have alternate bridge crew to swap in and out as needed or until you find out which you like best) Viral Matrix 3, (with 3 doffs? yeah.. this is pretty much a Perma Shut Down you won't get to use it often with your slow speed but it's great for an opener)
Gravity Well 3 (with aftershock doff this is another Ridiculous one. Especially since it gets tac buffed. My Recon's DPS just from GW3 is somewhere around 1500-2800 depending on when I pop my go down fighting and if my doff procs) Again GW3 can be used to either clear spam (so it can shut down enemy carriers), Suck in Fat Ki.. Ships (like Oddys, carriers, bortas) and still do TRIBBLE tons of damage.
And finally, Tractor Beam Repulsors3... mine can do about 2k in my recon per second. Through Shields. It also has a ludicrously strong repel if you are specced for it. Which like TBR1 can be obnoxious. Glorious thing about TBR? Not Arc Depdendant. Also TBR3, unlike PSW3 (though this is still a good choice and is one of the other ways Web Fried Me) has abit more reach out and touch people potential. You also get multiple shots with TBR3.
If you don't want to go with 6 beams try 4. 2 fore and 2 aft. With Chrono torps in your aft section. Chroniton procs are ungodly in their cheese. (and maybe get an alternate tac boff with Torp Spread 2). Upfront mount a Tricobalt. Why a tric? a tric if it lands will give you far more damage per 2 minute cycles than your three constant 2 minute long barrages of T Torps.
Also when I say Can Do. I mean that as a minimum. I've had TBR3 do 13k Crits. And then it Chains Crits. (which means each pulse is a crit on that target. 4 pulses = someone is dead) I have One Passed Bops in my Recon because of TBR3 crit chains. Didn't even use a single other ability. Killed him in one pass, and nearly killed 2 of his friends as well. Had anyone been shooting me at the time I was also running FBP2 I would have probably wiped a whole team with just 2 boff skills and some tac buffs.
Something else to note here. All of those sci skills with the exception of the heals, Grav Well and FBP2 are NOT aux dependent to do damage. Meaning, you can easily run Full to Guns, and murder the **** out of someone with sci skills at the same time, and just use aux bats or switch to an aux setting when you either need heals or FBP2. Also ST3 isn't aux dependent. Giving you a very healthy boost to healing without needing to go to aux.
Also, when you can if you really want to TRIBBLE everyone off switch to Phasers. Their proc is insanely broken. (it's actually worse than it used to be and it was already OP compared to where it was before) It's basically a free miniature non firing arced Viral Matrix that can also pop shields off.
I can train ST3 for you if you want to give the full build a try. Not a partial build, the full thing. I don't think you'll even think about your original builds anymore once you get into the swing of this one. Other than maybe to smile and giggle.
(Trust me we've all had Fail Builds that we thought were Hot Stuff when we first started out It's not something just exclusive to you. Though most of us took the time, to sit down with our friends and enemies alike that were trying to help out and figure out how things work
To correct your miss information... I will post properly tested parser numbers for you tomorrow when I am home...
Seriously though think about it... if you spit a torp ever single second... how the heck does the lower dmg torp with no extra bonuses (like penetration or dots ect) manage to do higher dps again ?
At least you are so obviously wrong I think even newer players see the flaw in the logic.
PS If you are going by Cryptics little DPS tag on the weapons... that is based on standard recharge times... not doff proced recharge times.
Oh Sophie Sophie Sophie...
Don't be upset that I knew you where a girl. Your circular logic reminds me so much of my first 2 wives that your gender was plainly obvious. (no offense to that gender in general).
Oh and everyone knows I'm Qaw... or Hus... Caaa Qaw Sophie.
Up until this post here, I was more then willing to have insightful and helpful conversations to assist in the possible further growth of your game play.
But after this posted replies to Husnakx.. And reading what I read in Organized_PVP.. I'm done.
Sir, you obviously have your head WAY up your TRIBBLE. I've been a nice guy, and I usually try to refrain from bringing my temper to this forum, but **** it. I'm done being nice. Your absoulte disregard for not only helpful information, but this higher then thou additude has definitely got to stop. If you ****ing think that you know more then Husnakx, to respond in such an insulting way that you did, go some place else. We don't want your kind here. You just ranked up there, for me, in the same area as Thegrandnagus. And actually I almost like him better then you at this point.
So go back under your bridge you disgusting little ****tard of a troll. And take that stupid peice of garbage you call a carrier before I decide to go back into my BoP again and start hunting after you every chance I get. And believe me. I can, and will pop that little carrier of yours every time I can. Up until now you've been seeing my helpful and nice side. And with that said.. I leave you with a simple..
GFLL which translates to Get ****ing lost, loser! :mad:
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku