Then why did those people I fought blow up? You are ignoring facts.
Wait, you killed them with transphasics or FBP? Be honest now, it was FBP that did at least 90% of your damage. I know cause its the ONLY thing that hurt me in our 1v1
saying 2x EptS is the same as 2xTSS is not that bright since 2xTSS has a 50% downtime...
Also, instead of burning up your TSS heals on yourself for resistance, if EptS gives the same resistance to yourself, you could be using the TSS's for teammates like you say this build is meant to do
Ah, I see it. You are talking about the first build from post #1. That build has evolved considerably. You will find the transphasic torpedo build a few pages back.
I've looked through the last ten or so pages and I can't see anything in the way of an alternate build posted.
That said, it's probably not necessary since I can tell you right now that a transphasics catboat is a straight up troll build. Even assuming you could pop off a single HY:T in a balls-in-molasses turn rate carrier, the bleed'll get outhealed by HE1, Borg stuff, hell, ****ing crew would patch it up. Have you ever fought an escort that takes TB? You'd get blind-spotted on your flank and summarily ripped a new *******.
I've looked through the last ten or so pages and I can't see anything in the way of an alternate build posted.
That said, it's probably not necessary since I can tell you right now that a transphasics catboat is a straight up troll build. Even assuming you could pop off a single HY:T in a balls-in-molasses turn rate carrier, the bleed'll get outhealed by HE1, Borg stuff, hell, ****ing crew would patch it up. Have you ever fought an escort that takes TB? You'd get blind-spotted on your flank and summarily ripped a new *******.
Yeah, the spike from an escort is what he's counting on with his FBP though. Full aux tac buffed FBP reflecting an alpha strike back in the escorts face has blown a few ppl here up. He then uses the argument that he's killed them a couple of times to validate his build and the use of torps...
Seems about right. They usually stop shooting at 10% of their hull. And then find that their hull heals are insufficient to stand the buffed transphasics keeping on firing.
Yes, currently that only works against escorts, and some escorts from a fleet nobody expects seem to be able to dish out enough damage in the 15 second gap to defeat the Tolerance. (However, they are able to do that regardless of whether I use 2 EPTS or not, which has been tested.) But I am looking forward to the transphasics buff.
Sure, it may work in 1v1's, but you continually fold in a 5v5 situation. Its quite easy to survive in a 1v1 without a good build. In our 1v1, I brought a lol/build galor to prove that point. Its not a ship layout I'd run in a premade, but in 1v1, it killed you twice, both times in less than 3 minutes, and it only took me that long because I had to ride out an rsp and a FBP.
less than 3 minutes in a cruiser....
Let me put it another way. Your build didnt withstand the dps of a cruiser....
Yeah, the spike from an escort is what he's counting on with his FBP though. Full aux tac buffed FBP reflecting an alpha strike back in the escorts face has blown a few ppl here up. He then uses the argument that he's killed them a couple of times to validate his build and the use of torps...
My bad, like I said I hadn't seen his "updated" build since the original post hasn't been edited. FBP is something of a gimmick (and one that isn't even dependent on a Tac-buffed ship); I wouldn't say it's terrible on an Atrox but it's a totally different issue to putting torps on it. In an actual team/5 v. 5 game there are too many ways to counter an FPB-oriented ship to make it competitive.
OP, I'm not remotely emotional about this whatsoever. You asked for us explicitly in the thread title to talk about the USS Tolerance and that's what we're doing.
My bad, like I said I hadn't seen his "updated" build since the original post hasn't been edited. FBP is something of a gimmick (and one that isn't even dependent on a Tac-buffed ship); I wouldn't say it's terrible on an Atrox but it's a totally different issue to putting torps on it. In an actual team/5 v. 5 game there are too many ways to counter an FPB-oriented ship to make it competitive.
OP, I'm not remotely emotional about this whatsoever. You asked for us explicitly in the thread title to talk about the USS Tolerance and that's what we're doing.
Actually a lot of ppl HAVE confirmed that FBP is indeed tac buffable making it particularly nasty when popped at full aux. While in a premade situation, the use of FBP may be questionable, in a 1v1 situation, which is sophie's preferred engagement, it becomes pretty viable since there are no other players to shoot at. In 5v5, he easily folds, and instead of realizing he has a bad build, he says that it only due to focus fire.
Well, it is linked - because torps allow to use full aux power.
Then carry on.
You can manage power to put out consistent beam pressure with an Atrox, and keeping yourself at 125 Aux just for FPB instead of real cross-heals is a one-trick-pony with a prohibitively long cooldown. Hell, I'd sooner take cannons over torps. If you manage to hit someone with a 6-per-second turn rate and a 90 degree arc, let me know.
You can keep trying to convince him that the world is flat, or round, or let him live in the world that makes him happy. In the end it doesn't matter. Not. One. Bit.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
Yeah, but it is not just the FBP. HE1, for example, heals as many hitpoints at full aux as HE3 does at 50 aux. TSS is stronger and gives more resistance. And so on.
Okay, but you still haven't explained to me your reasoning in trying to make the carrier a torp boat. The "first" build was bad enough but I was so preoccupied with your BOff layout I forgot about it. I need a legitimate answer to how you intend to hit anything with a torp firing arc, especially when you have nothing in the way of CC for your Sci slots.
I can't believe I am posting in the look at me thread again.
Just wanted to ask Soph... have you used a parser at all ?
I ask because I would bet a large sum of money that 50%+ of your hull healing your so worried about is coming from your borg procs... which means you don't need to worry about having every engi slot be a hull heal.
Most people run at least one EPTS cause the opportunity cost is so low... really what are you trading for EPTS 1 hull heal wise.... ONE copy of Engi team 1... a 6k hull heal every 30 seconds. (15 if you have some doffs I guess)... with no resist added. Vs a 66% uptime resist and power bump.... for most people its a no brainer to run that power in the ensign slot at the min. Its cool that you want to do it different... however I'm sorry not running epts on that tub is holding you back in anything other then 1 on 1s.
Really though get a parser and look over the numbers... your borg hull procs do 10x the healing of one copy of engi team 1... you can afford to loose it... keep your shields hard and let the borg set play for you.
Well, the aft firing arc is really the strong point. Escorts with their forward-firing weaponry that want to target you will have to do so from behind if you keep a straight line course, so they will inevitably end up in your rear arc. Other ships could theoretically broadside you all the time, but all you need to do to prevent that is turn away from them, and again... they're in your rear arc. What also works is of course targetting subsystems with the single beam array in the front.
No it doesn't.
And your torps? Don't do significant damage. The only kills you score in 1v1s is when someone lucky crits themselves on your fbp3 with an overload.
I victimized you, fore aft and sideways at will in our last bout. There was no "moving back into arc" on your part.
I came in, like a rhino on your fore. I took everything you had to throw, plus the reflected dps and lived.
I parked on your backside and let you bombard me, and your repeated shots didn't lower my hull any farther.
My ship -still- tanks better than yours. I was taking 180 percent (IIRC) of my own dps, with 50 percent of it going through my shields. Plus your own pitiful TRIBBLE T Torps, and I still had more hull than you at the end of my first two strikes.
And then I decided to get serious, and changed my weapon load out and officers then you warped. claiming yourself a victor. Victors don't warp when they are overall at 2-7.
As I said previously, your ship is just a free damage boost for my go down fighting before I run off to go kill one of your allies. sure it "works" in a 1v1. But only because you don't fight scis. and you haven't fought a Cannon Torp boat yet. And hell, you haven't fought anyone like me that took you seriously. What was going to be my 3rd run you ran away from and Warped.
In an arena your ship is a dangerous liability to yourself, and your allies. You'd get almost One Passed and then spend every heal you had to not die to any subsequent fire... leaving your allies starved of precious heals. Your crowd control is non existent, so it's not like anyone actually has any incentive to remove you from the battlefield. And your DPS is equally a farce. We could just ignore you after dumping a quick alpha run into you once each kill set. Never kill you, and send your team mates to the respawn point.
I am glad you are back to posting in this thread rather than TRIBBLE on the serious carrier thread.
As in actually dropping my hull by percentage points. I tanked your torps like a Boss. Parked at nearly 0 forward speed. Those lil yellow numbers? that is the Raw damage not after Resistances, and Defense. Raw. So those 1000s? more like 100s. And my hull repair rate is superior to that.
And still they did not out do my native repair rate, and failed miserably at keeping up with my Borg. And you shot me with quite a few torps. And only like maybe 3 hits actually dropped my hull by any margin. And then it was promptly repaired.
Had I decided not to shoot you at all at any point with your FPB up, I wouldn't take any damage at all from you.
Seriously you moron, do you think I didn't notice the damage I was dealing being reflected that some how I didn't see blue white death coming back for me? Do you think that some how in 2 years of pvping, that I wouldn't have learned to Stop Shooting the FBP? Tell me, why do you think I kept wailing on you? "to kill me" you say? I could have waited for fpb to be over with for that. It's not like you had anything to stop me from doing so.
Funny, You Warped. Everyone that was there will tell you you did. Hell I didn't even use my standard DBB. I was testing Accuracy properities on DBBs at the time, and frankly I got what I needed to learn from the first pair of runs. You literally lived only because a DBB missed you twice. Which would not have happened with my normal DBB on.
You are 2 and 7 overall.
You are completely inept in arenas to the point of liability status.
You know damn well what happens to your ship in a real arena against people on my level or higher. Infact I just described what would happen.
I let you wail on me with torpedoes. Forward and aft. I decided to attack you twice from the flank and make it impossible to shoot me and I did. Twice, and the only time you got back into firing arc was when I allowed you to. Not on your discretion. Mine.
I simply put, toyed with you. My DBB raced off with an overload because I felt like doing so to finish frying myself. Frankly had I gotten serious with you, I wouldn't even bother using my mvam. I'd use an Advanced Escort and put torps through your sorry hull. I used a Team Ship, on your "dueling ship". And you could barely survive. It took literally everything you had, coupled with me not using APD to further Debuff your hull and finish the job. In an arena I could shoot you down to 30, you'd pop your green diaper and FPB3, and by then I'd already be off shooting someone else while you burned every single hull heal you had to fix yourself.
You however, mistook this apparently for me being serious and trying super hard.
Ask the Raptor pilot, what it was like flying against me after you Ran Like A Girl. Ask him how hard it was to get himself into position and he had a Raptor. A ship that is tremendously more agile than your pile of junk.
I was hoping that little episode would have taught you that even with your FPB3 you are far from safe. Had my crits been existent, or had my overloads hit more frequently you would have Died. Both of which were entirely possible given the weapon configuaration I was running. Had I been running torps instead of a DBB your biggest damage dealer would have lost more than 50 percent of it's output. Which means the risk of me killing myself is dramatically reduced should I decide to go the "just shoot him anyway" route. You still almost died. Every Single Time I lined up a pass on you. Even when I had already nearly fried myself on a previous run and not let my hull come back before taking more shots. Even after you fixed yourself I still nearly sent you to the respawn point. Even when I had dramatically less time to lay into you.
Your ship is TRIBBLE. It can't tank. It doesn't have crowd control to stop me from doing whatever I please in an arena, and it doesn't put out damage on it's own to put any pressure on me or my healers.
I recommend you either decomission your ship or start offering to give Kilawapiteh (Kila.. the Carrier Thread author) blow jobs to get his sage advice. Because as it stands? your ship is so vastly inferior to anything he has -ever- built that I can't help but think that frankly, you're just pvping for the attention.
Lets see who the real pvper is. I'll even make it more even. We should que up as a team. I'll go get my Tac Recon so I don't just instantly run roughshod over whatever pathetic #s you'll put up in an arena.
Edit: If you have any doubts about how that fight went, I suggest you ask the many witnesses.
By the way, I can now confirm that this build also works against at least one Kar'fi. Which broke off the attack before it was killed, so I had to follow up burning Deuterium and an engine battery and using evasive maneuvers, only to see him fly away again with his own engine battery... and then loosing the final 2% hull against my fighters' thoron devices. It was an awesome fight, and my opponent was, while still learning to use a carrier, quite perceptive, I must say.
By witnesses you mean the squirrels working the keyboard while you issue commands?
I don't claim to be able to do many things in this game well, but I can run a Kar'fi. I will destroy you in it no matter what arc you turn that tub in. You were, by your own admission, flying against a novice in the Kar'fi who died to your pets, not torps or fbp or anything really related to your build.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
By witnesses you mean the squirrels working the keyboard while you issue commands?
I don't claim to be able to do many things in this game well, but I can run a Kar'fi. I will destroy you in it no matter what arc you turn that tub in. You were, by your own admission, flying against a novice in the Kar'fi who died to your pets, not torps or fbp or anything really related to your build.
Nah. I brought in like 7 or 8 witnesses to watch me play around with lil sophietia there.
Naturally he wouldn't vs any of them either when they asked for a 1v1.
The raptor who had the balls to fight after you Ran, I lost two, twice. I couldn't seal the deal because his ship, is more resilient than mine. He out flew me, and out lasted me.
You on the other hand, well your best hope is that I decide to shoot against myself all the way through my HPs.
Kila's tac carrier? He shut me down completely. I couldn't move, and could not shoot back effectively without frying myself. And in the time frames between his fpbs. I was chronitoned, tractored, by him, his pets, sub system lock downed.
He actually beat me. I tried 100 percent on him and failed.
You on the other hand? No son I'm sorry. I let myself get fried.
Comments
Five torps? What...?
Are we even talking about the same post here? The one where you had two (?) fore photons, BO2 (for some reason) and two energy consoles?
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Wait, you killed them with transphasics or FBP? Be honest now, it was FBP that did at least 90% of your damage. I know cause its the ONLY thing that hurt me in our 1v1
Also, instead of burning up your TSS heals on yourself for resistance, if EptS gives the same resistance to yourself, you could be using the TSS's for teammates like you say this build is meant to do
I've looked through the last ten or so pages and I can't see anything in the way of an alternate build posted.
That said, it's probably not necessary since I can tell you right now that a transphasics catboat is a straight up troll build. Even assuming you could pop off a single HY:T in a balls-in-molasses turn rate carrier, the bleed'll get outhealed by HE1, Borg stuff, hell, ****ing crew would patch it up. Have you ever fought an escort that takes TB? You'd get blind-spotted on your flank and summarily ripped a new *******.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Yeah, the spike from an escort is what he's counting on with his FBP though. Full aux tac buffed FBP reflecting an alpha strike back in the escorts face has blown a few ppl here up. He then uses the argument that he's killed them a couple of times to validate his build and the use of torps...
Sure, it may work in 1v1's, but you continually fold in a 5v5 situation. Its quite easy to survive in a 1v1 without a good build. In our 1v1, I brought a lol/build galor to prove that point. Its not a ship layout I'd run in a premade, but in 1v1, it killed you twice, both times in less than 3 minutes, and it only took me that long because I had to ride out an rsp and a FBP.
less than 3 minutes in a cruiser....
Let me put it another way. Your build didnt withstand the dps of a cruiser....
My bad, like I said I hadn't seen his "updated" build since the original post hasn't been edited. FBP is something of a gimmick (and one that isn't even dependent on a Tac-buffed ship); I wouldn't say it's terrible on an Atrox but it's a totally different issue to putting torps on it. In an actual team/5 v. 5 game there are too many ways to counter an FPB-oriented ship to make it competitive.
OP, I'm not remotely emotional about this whatsoever. You asked for us explicitly in the thread title to talk about the USS Tolerance and that's what we're doing.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Actually a lot of ppl HAVE confirmed that FBP is indeed tac buffable making it particularly nasty when popped at full aux. While in a premade situation, the use of FBP may be questionable, in a 1v1 situation, which is sophie's preferred engagement, it becomes pretty viable since there are no other players to shoot at. In 5v5, he easily folds, and instead of realizing he has a bad build, he says that it only due to focus fire.
You can manage power to put out consistent beam pressure with an Atrox, and keeping yourself at 125 Aux just for FPB instead of real cross-heals is a one-trick-pony with a prohibitively long cooldown. Hell, I'd sooner take cannons over torps. If you manage to hit someone with a 6-per-second turn rate and a 90 degree arc, let me know.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
You do understand that resistances stack, right? If your focus fired, TSS3+EptS2>TSS3. It only helps your tank build to have it
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
Okay, but you still haven't explained to me your reasoning in trying to make the carrier a torp boat. The "first" build was bad enough but I was so preoccupied with your BOff layout I forgot about it. I need a legitimate answer to how you intend to hit anything with a torp firing arc, especially when you have nothing in the way of CC for your Sci slots.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Just wanted to ask Soph... have you used a parser at all ?
I ask because I would bet a large sum of money that 50%+ of your hull healing your so worried about is coming from your borg procs... which means you don't need to worry about having every engi slot be a hull heal.
Most people run at least one EPTS cause the opportunity cost is so low... really what are you trading for EPTS 1 hull heal wise.... ONE copy of Engi team 1... a 6k hull heal every 30 seconds. (15 if you have some doffs I guess)... with no resist added. Vs a 66% uptime resist and power bump.... for most people its a no brainer to run that power in the ensign slot at the min. Its cool that you want to do it different... however I'm sorry not running epts on that tub is holding you back in anything other then 1 on 1s.
Really though get a parser and look over the numbers... your borg hull procs do 10x the healing of one copy of engi team 1... you can afford to loose it... keep your shields hard and let the borg set play for you.
No it doesn't.
And your torps? Don't do significant damage. The only kills you score in 1v1s is when someone lucky crits themselves on your fbp3 with an overload.
I victimized you, fore aft and sideways at will in our last bout. There was no "moving back into arc" on your part.
I came in, like a rhino on your fore. I took everything you had to throw, plus the reflected dps and lived.
I parked on your backside and let you bombard me, and your repeated shots didn't lower my hull any farther.
My ship -still- tanks better than yours. I was taking 180 percent (IIRC) of my own dps, with 50 percent of it going through my shields. Plus your own pitiful TRIBBLE T Torps, and I still had more hull than you at the end of my first two strikes.
And then I decided to get serious, and changed my weapon load out and officers then you warped. claiming yourself a victor. Victors don't warp when they are overall at 2-7.
As I said previously, your ship is just a free damage boost for my go down fighting before I run off to go kill one of your allies. sure it "works" in a 1v1. But only because you don't fight scis. and you haven't fought a Cannon Torp boat yet. And hell, you haven't fought anyone like me that took you seriously. What was going to be my 3rd run you ran away from and Warped.
In an arena your ship is a dangerous liability to yourself, and your allies. You'd get almost One Passed and then spend every heal you had to not die to any subsequent fire... leaving your allies starved of precious heals. Your crowd control is non existent, so it's not like anyone actually has any incentive to remove you from the battlefield. And your DPS is equally a farce. We could just ignore you after dumping a quick alpha run into you once each kill set. Never kill you, and send your team mates to the respawn point.
I am glad you are back to posting in this thread rather than TRIBBLE on the serious carrier thread.
And still they did not out do my native repair rate, and failed miserably at keeping up with my Borg. And you shot me with quite a few torps. And only like maybe 3 hits actually dropped my hull by any margin. And then it was promptly repaired.
Had I decided not to shoot you at all at any point with your FPB up, I wouldn't take any damage at all from you.
Seriously you moron, do you think I didn't notice the damage I was dealing being reflected that some how I didn't see blue white death coming back for me? Do you think that some how in 2 years of pvping, that I wouldn't have learned to Stop Shooting the FBP? Tell me, why do you think I kept wailing on you? "to kill me" you say? I could have waited for fpb to be over with for that. It's not like you had anything to stop me from doing so.
Funny, You Warped. Everyone that was there will tell you you did. Hell I didn't even use my standard DBB. I was testing Accuracy properities on DBBs at the time, and frankly I got what I needed to learn from the first pair of runs. You literally lived only because a DBB missed you twice. Which would not have happened with my normal DBB on.
You are 2 and 7 overall.
You are completely inept in arenas to the point of liability status.
You know damn well what happens to your ship in a real arena against people on my level or higher. Infact I just described what would happen.
I let you wail on me with torpedoes. Forward and aft. I decided to attack you twice from the flank and make it impossible to shoot me and I did. Twice, and the only time you got back into firing arc was when I allowed you to. Not on your discretion. Mine.
I simply put, toyed with you. My DBB raced off with an overload because I felt like doing so to finish frying myself. Frankly had I gotten serious with you, I wouldn't even bother using my mvam. I'd use an Advanced Escort and put torps through your sorry hull. I used a Team Ship, on your "dueling ship". And you could barely survive. It took literally everything you had, coupled with me not using APD to further Debuff your hull and finish the job. In an arena I could shoot you down to 30, you'd pop your green diaper and FPB3, and by then I'd already be off shooting someone else while you burned every single hull heal you had to fix yourself.
You however, mistook this apparently for me being serious and trying super hard.
Ask the Raptor pilot, what it was like flying against me after you Ran Like A Girl. Ask him how hard it was to get himself into position and he had a Raptor. A ship that is tremendously more agile than your pile of junk.
I was hoping that little episode would have taught you that even with your FPB3 you are far from safe. Had my crits been existent, or had my overloads hit more frequently you would have Died. Both of which were entirely possible given the weapon configuaration I was running. Had I been running torps instead of a DBB your biggest damage dealer would have lost more than 50 percent of it's output. Which means the risk of me killing myself is dramatically reduced should I decide to go the "just shoot him anyway" route. You still almost died. Every Single Time I lined up a pass on you. Even when I had already nearly fried myself on a previous run and not let my hull come back before taking more shots. Even after you fixed yourself I still nearly sent you to the respawn point. Even when I had dramatically less time to lay into you.
Your ship is TRIBBLE. It can't tank. It doesn't have crowd control to stop me from doing whatever I please in an arena, and it doesn't put out damage on it's own to put any pressure on me or my healers.
I recommend you either decomission your ship or start offering to give Kilawapiteh (Kila.. the Carrier Thread author) blow jobs to get his sage advice. Because as it stands? your ship is so vastly inferior to anything he has -ever- built that I can't help but think that frankly, you're just pvping for the attention.
Lets see who the real pvper is. I'll even make it more even. We should que up as a team. I'll go get my Tac Recon so I don't just instantly run roughshod over whatever pathetic #s you'll put up in an arena.
By witnesses you mean the squirrels working the keyboard while you issue commands?
I don't claim to be able to do many things in this game well, but I can run a Kar'fi. I will destroy you in it no matter what arc you turn that tub in. You were, by your own admission, flying against a novice in the Kar'fi who died to your pets, not torps or fbp or anything really related to your build.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Nah. I brought in like 7 or 8 witnesses to watch me play around with lil sophietia there.
Naturally he wouldn't vs any of them either when they asked for a 1v1.
Infact I don't.
The raptor who had the balls to fight after you Ran, I lost two, twice. I couldn't seal the deal because his ship, is more resilient than mine. He out flew me, and out lasted me.
You on the other hand, well your best hope is that I decide to shoot against myself all the way through my HPs.
Kila's tac carrier? He shut me down completely. I couldn't move, and could not shoot back effectively without frying myself. And in the time frames between his fpbs. I was chronitoned, tractored, by him, his pets, sub system lock downed.
He actually beat me. I tried 100 percent on him and failed.
You on the other hand? No son I'm sorry. I let myself get fried.