My biggest issue is cruisers in STFs. They simply take up a spot a perfectly good escort could be. They look pretty, I'll admit. That odyssey sure is appealing to the eyes...much like my ex-girlfriend, beautiful and useless
I'll tolerate them if they throw me a heal here and there but it seldoms happens
The effectiveness of cruisers really depends on the pilot. My current (and experimental) cruiser build is geared towards tanking and healing, and I do throw heals to teammates when they are in range (10km, and 7.5km for ExtSh).
Other cruiser pilots, like one of my ingame friends, has his Odyssey set up for damage - and can easily out-damage a PVE escort.
And then there are pilots who don't know the difference between cruisers and escorts... and unfortunately, if you're stuck with that guy, there's where your issues start cropping up.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
My biggest issue is cruisers in STFs. They simply take up a spot a perfectly good escort could be. They look pretty, I'll admit. That odyssey sure is appealing to the eyes...much like my ex-girlfriend, beautiful and useless
I'll tolerate them if they throw me a heal here and there but it seldoms happens
Cruisers are great ships IF they are properly built. There are dozens of posts in the forums about how to build a cruiser.
Lol don't look down on cruisers like that. Cruisers are very much capable of out damaging the average escorts. Over 10k dps cruisers do exist and they aren't hard to build.
you can outdps an avg escort with probably anything the game has to offer
a 10k dps cruiser is a waste of the captain commanding it (tho atleast it is useful to have, and (s)he is having fun)
So we're doing the new event CE, it's all nice and good; spamming the spacebar until the entity starts absorbing energy. And what do people do? Keep shooting at it close range.
People have no situational awareness.
well, properly built cruisers and science vessels can survive the shockwave the entity releases, and they need to keep shooting it if they want any chance at 1st, because, you know, DPS is king and all that other rot...
i'd be facepawing more over people completely ignoring large fragments, because those things HURT, and to add injury to injury, the explosion goes right through shields
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
The amazing thing is some of the...brain trusts...in the game will get themselves blown up every time the shockwave goes off and still somehow manage to score 1st place, despite respawn timers. Meanwhile, those of us who keep the add count down, avoid the shockwave, and control shards get the screws. It's so thoroughly irritating that after getting my second shard today, I considered not even doing the event at all in protest. Getting hit or killed by that shockwave should automatically disqualify you from placement in CE, period. Or, at least, count shard/tholian/MU summon kills. Ugh.
As far as my worst STF experience...well, after today I have a new one. I just bought and kitted out an MU star cruiser, and decided to run CSN to acclimate myself to cruiser play and test my build out in a decent environment. Four players guarding the Kang, the optional failed not because the timer ran out but rather the Kang got taken out (mind you, at the point the Kang got taken out I had taken down two cubes on my own), and I end up chewed out because I apparently let assimilated ships past me.
I don't think my cruiser play and gear setup was too bad four a first outing all things considered. I ended up soloing all three cubes, only got blown up once because I was mouse-looking around trying to figure out where the hell the other four players were rather than minding my self-heals.
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:
Recently on Khitomer in Stasis (Elite) had a failure because 3 people did not know how to properly play the mission. 2 of those had EV suits and died so many times and 1 of them was a Sci with a medic kit. 1 person left because of the frustration of bad players. I had to go in the room to lower the shield because the 3 remaining did not know what to do their. I would lower the shield but the 3 remaining had trouble destroying the generators because of pathetic damage. I had to tell the tactical players that 1 of them needs to use Strike Team to boost the teams attack and even with that they still had trouble and 1 of them left.
People need to stop entering elite missions with crappy gear and not knowing what to do.
well it seems some days publicelitestf is full of idiots that have not done elite stfs before and its very fustrating, it feels like ur pugging it lol
Exactly. Thank goodness I've done enough T5 projects to get my ships good space sets/weapons and tweaked my build to fit what I was planning on doing so I all I have to do now is focus on fleet stuff.
The amazing thing is some of the...brain trusts...in the game will get themselves blown up every time the shockwave goes off and still somehow manage to score 1st place, despite respawn timers. Meanwhile, those of us who keep the add count down, avoid the shockwave, and control shards get the screws. It's so thoroughly irritating that after getting my second shard today, I considered not even doing the event at all in protest. Getting hit or killed by that shockwave should automatically disqualify you from placement in CE, period. Or, at least, count shard/tholian/MU summon kills. Ugh.
Just a quick tip on this for anyone annoyed at people ignoring the shockwave. If you pack heals on your ship, use them on the people that get smashed up. They tweaked the scoring to now include healing done as a factor. I was able to get first place by running my sci heal/CC boat. I pack HE3 (heals over 30K total with 125 aux) and Aux2Structural (can be fired off every 15 seconds). I flew around and just healed everyone and ended up beating them all out over whatever dps they tried to do by sitting still and taking the shockwave in their face. So when I'm flying my sci ship, I love seeing those people now haha.
Just a quick tip on this for anyone annoyed at people ignoring the shockwave. If you pack heals on your ship, use them on the people that get smashed up. They tweaked the scoring to now include healing done as a factor. I was able to get first place by running my sci heal/CC boat. I pack HE3 (heals over 30K total with 125 aux) and Aux2Structural (can be fired off every 15 seconds). I flew around and just healed everyone and ended up beating them all out over whatever dps they tried to do by sitting still and taking the shockwave in their face. So when I'm flying my sci ship, I love seeing those people now haha.
Ugh. Maybe it's just my vindictive nature when it comes to bad play, but I'd rather see that shockwave's damage hotfixed through the roof and actually penalize players for gaming the mechanics. I just see that as a band-aid, allowing players to be competitive by enabling the bad play of others.
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:
Ugh. Maybe it's just my vindictive nature when it comes to bad play, but I'd rather see that shockwave's damage hotfixed through the roof and actually penalize players for gaming the mechanics. I just see that as a band-aid, allowing players to be competitive by enabling the bad play of others.
I totally understand that. Bad players should be penalized for bad play. However I'd like to offer a different point of view to it though, if you don't mind.
I played FFXI for many years and they had content there called "Campaign." The short version of it is that Campaign was a system where NPC armies would attack various outposts and bases throughout the world and we players had to band together to defend our bases or attack enemy bases. Rather than being a DPS fest they had all kinds of calculations like physical damage dealt, physical damage taken, magical damage dealt, magical damage taken, healing done, etc. Basically this made people play as their classes were intended rather than just OMGDPSEVERYTHING. Tanks tanked, healers healed, and the DPS guys did their thing. We all got rewarded for doing our jobs as they were meant to be played.
Now to come back to STO...I see the new healing calculation added in as a step in this direction, one that I dearly want this game to go in. Rather than just award the deeps for their work, we now have something that awards us healers for our work. Instead of everyone just sitting there and taking care of their own ships we now have people actually playing in a more authentic team setting. Cruisers can tank for us (and even take that shockwave), we sci's can keep everyone running with our heals, and the deeps can just do whatever the deeps always do. Is STO at the point where FFXI was years ago as far as rewarding team play? No not at all, it's not even close. But from my perspective this is a step in the right direction. A small step no doubt, but a step nonetheless.
Anyways my intention isn't to try to sway your mind or argue, just to offer another perspective. As I said earlier, I totally understand your frustrations about this. I really do. STO has a long way to go before it has the rich team scoring mechanics of FFXI, but in the meantime perhaps looking at this in a different light may help.
well, properly built cruisers and science vessels can survive the shockwave the entity releases, and they need to keep shooting it if they want any chance at 1st, because, you know, DPS is king and all that other rot...
Unless there was a very specific bug in the two instances of CE that I checked this in, energy weapons do 1 point of damage per hit whilst the Entity is in absorbtion mode. You could grind maybe 200-300 extra out of it by firing on it whilst it's absorbing. That's very rarely going to decide a position.
If you want to shoot it, use your torps and cutting beam. They still hurt it. I usually go after some fragments or down a Tholian or two.
I really wish they'd rebalance PvE to allow for better balance between the ship classes rather than the current DPS dominant meta we have now. Best Sci ship by a mile is the Vesta, because it can equip DHCs and has the turn rate to use them.
It's good to know that you get points for healing in CE, but it's still only three missions I can think of off the top of my head (the other being Starbase Blockade & NWS) where anything other than pure DPS is actually necessary.
I really wish they'd rebalance PvE to allow for better balance between the ship classes rather than the current DPS dominant meta we have now. Best Sci ship by a mile is the Vesta, because it can equip DHCs and has the turn rate to use them.
It's good to know that you get points for healing in CE, but it's still only three missions I can think of off the top of my head (the other being Starbase Blockade & NWS) where anything other than pure DPS is actually necessary.
Won't get any argument from me on that lol. I'm a sci captain main and I hate the "balance" (rather, the lack of) we have right now. I did eventually pick up the Vesta to stay somewhat relevant, but yeah we need a complete balance pass for sure.
Unless there was a very specific bug in the two instances of CE that I checked this in, energy weapons do 1 point of damage per hit whilst the Entity is in absorbtion mode. You could grind maybe 200-300 extra out of it by firing on it whilst it's absorbing. That's very rarely going to decide a position.
Not to mention extra DPS you get out of not repositioning yourself during and after absorption phases, and alpha striking with stuff like GDF right after the shockwave when you're at critical hull. That will decide position.
That said, I decided to do a few extra CE runs experimenting with ships and builds, today and last night just to see what's up. Now, I'm a science captain and haven't played long enough yet to have ground out T5 in NR/Omega, and the dilithium/zen to be kitted out in Z-store/lockbox ships with Mk XII purples, so I considered even having placed a success. I fully understand I won't be competitive with someone who has a Z-store ship, all the latest goodies, and a few hundred thousand dilithium sunk into their equipment, and I'm totally okay with that. My ships are the free prometheus, mirror universe sovereign, and mirror universe RSV; for the average level of gear (blue/purple Mk XI exchange and mission gear), they are equipped and slotted properly.
On my cruiser (6x disruptor, quantums fore and aft, by the by):
Run 1: Circled the CE nonstop spamming FaW and EPtW, ignoring and healing through shockwaves. Nada.
Run 2: Focused on keeping shards and tholian adds down, moved out of the way for shockwaves and to attack adds. Nada.
Run 3: Used heals and buffs on other players, moved out of the way for shockwaves, concentrated on CE. Nada.
On my science vessel (quantum x2 fore with technician doffs to ensure constant torp steam, beam arrays elsewhere):
Run 1: Exclusively healed and CC'ed shards and tholians. Moved out of the way of shockwaves. Nada.
Run 2: Focused damage on CE, used science boff powers on shards while healing. Avoided shockwaves. Nada.
Run 3: Same as run 2, but ignored shockwaves. That worked about as well as you'd figure in a science vessel.
Run 4: Swapped out my weapons to DBB x2 and photons fore, turrets aft, same as run 2. Still nothing.
On my escort (quantum x1, DBB x1, DHC x2 fore, all turrets aft):
Run 1: Focused on taking down adds with AE, avoided shockwave. Nothing.
Run 2: Focused on CE, avoided shockwave. Nothing.
Run 3: At this point I was a little loopy and decided to just be the biggest jackass I could during one run, to hell with results. I put on the Breen set, put dual rapid reload transphasics and dual DHC's fore, turrets aft, ignored everyone else and all adds, ignored the shockwaves, and just spammed every DPS ability I had on my bar. I blew up twice during the FA and still placed, whereas every prior attempt to actually play the event as apparently intended failed.
Either transphasics and the Breen set are just that freaking good and everyone who says they suck have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, or it's more advantageous to just game the encounter and bugger your teammates in the process.
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:
Or you just got a weak team on that last run. That's always going to be the biggest factor, because all that matters is how you performed relative to your team, so if they're all putting out 1k DPS and you put out 2k, yay you're awesome you got first place, if they're all putting out 12k and you put out 11k, you suck you get last place. Case in point: I took my Vesta into my first CE last night, chained Siphon and spammed TR and GW on the Entity, TBRed fragments when I noticed them getting too close to me or my team, ran away whenever it started absorbing, and spammed cannon fire and CSV from 2-4 km in between, and took first place. I didn't parse it, but I had to have been in the 4-7k DPS range, which your escort could probably beat, and since I didn't use heals on anyone else that's all that was getting counted.
Just finished a Khitomer Vortex (Elite) and I was the only escort. 3 other players in a Odyssey and 1 in a Vor'Cha and when fighting Donatra I took a torp spread taking heavy damage used my heals and was taking damage from her energy weapons. Barely able to survive before she cloaked. I said I could of used some heals. 1 person responded saying I am a tac I have no heals. The rest of the fight I got no heals from any of them having to rely on my heals only.
People are really pissing me off with doing stupid stuff and not helping people when they need it and so on.
That's always going to be the biggest factor, because all that matters is how you performed relative to your team...
I would be more amenable to this point, but for the fact on that last run I intentionally gimped my own load-out to the point of near non-viability and proceeded to intentionally play as poorly as I could in every aspect save max DPS on the CE. That includes having been destroyed twice, an event totally avoidable had I actually put forth half an effort to stay alive, during which time (counting respawn timer and repositioning) I was doing nothing at all that contributed to my own score. The only way in retrospect I could have played worse, was to not have used boff abilities or auto-attacked at all.
Of course I understand that FA performance is relative to that of others -- otherwise, I would not have mentioned I had no expectation of remaining competitive with top-, or even middle-, tier players who have put in the time, zen, and dilithium into their ships and characters at all. That doesn't change the fact that, even intentionally playing at the bottom of the barrel in level of skill and gear, but within reasonable expectation of a level 50 player, I still managed to place whereas in any other run I had done in the spirit of the encounter, within the intended parameters, I had not. Random selection, as one finds in PuG queues, alone cannot qualitatively account for that discrepancy.
Now, a word about the Vesta -- of course it's set up in a way that would make it extremely effective in CE. The CE and its shards are weakest against kinetic energy, and you can fly the Vesta without conceding science slots that provide kinetic damage and control in the form of TR, TBR, and GW, or dual heavy cannons and torpedoes that provide decent direct damage. Are you suggesting that's comparable to an escort with all Mk XI gear intentionally set up in a way to provide the least justifiable DPS of a level 50 player?
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:
I would be more amenable to this point, but for the fact on that last run I intentionally gimped my own load-out to the point of near non-viability and proceeded to intentionally play as poorly as I could in every aspect save max DPS on the CE.
But the only scoring mechanisms are DPS and HPS, and generating major HPS is pretty close to impossible, so the main thing is DPS. Dying could hurt that, but not necessarily enough. And as for the loadout, dual torps on an escort is generally considered viable with the right doffs (which many people run even with one torp), and while transphasics are generally weak the Breen set would help them some, bringing them closer to par. While less than ideal, it isn't that weak a loadout, particularly since the CE has no shields and you say it has lower resistance to kinetic.
As far as my Vesta, it doesn't have any torps, just the DHCs and turrets, and I run it mainly as a sci ship, with all the weaknesses that entails, and my equipment isn't high quality either. Actually, CE is the most useful I've felt in a long time: hard to kill, helping teamates stay alive with CC, and even debuffing the enemy some. But again, all it scores is DPS and HPS, I wasn't healing anyone else, so it comes down to DPS, and your escort gets stronger turrets, an extra weapon slot, and 4.5 more tac abilities (I have cannon CD doffs) versus my hangar and 3 damage dealing sci abilities.
I'm not saying that it should be working this way of course, I'm just saying that it actually is "working as intended". In any case we're pretty far off topic at this point, so I'll shut up on the subject.
While less than ideal, it isn't that weak a loadout, particularly since the CE has no shields and you say it has lower resistance to kinetic.
A torp build will go a long way in that encounter. After being unsatisfied with the performance of my regular escort characters I switched one of my engineers (no projectile spec) to one. 2x rare mk. XI quantums, 2 rare torp doffs, 4 rare mk X quantum consoles, 2x CRF 1, 2x HYIII in a regular 9-console patrol escort. Placed first on CE 5 times in a row so far...
I really don't know what some don't understand about "cease fire" though! I mean, the message usually pops up on screen, and yet on quite a few teams I've been on, the idiots have continued to shoot at it - and subsequently cried about being one-shotted by the resulting shockwave.
or why they don't move away, even after they've gotten destroyed in the first shockwave. even if you're sitting at 5 km there is usually enough time to comfortably reverse out. (unless there is a scumbag tholian who disables your engine at exactly that time. )
A torp build will go a long way in that encounter. After being unsatisfied with the performance of my regular escort characters I switched one of my engineers (no projectile spec) to one. 2x rare mk. XI quantums, 2 rare torp doffs, 4 rare mk X quantum consoles, 2x CRF 1, 2x HYIII in a regular 9-console patrol escort. Placed first on CE 5 times in a row so far...
Are you sure your escort was built right? I've done 6 CE missions in the last couple days and took first in 4 of them. I fly a fleet escort.
I am a man who plays alone
And when I'm pugging CSE
At night or queuing ISE
When the timer begins to count
I sometimes feel a little strange
A little anxious when I pug
Fear of the pug, fear of the pug
I have a constant fear the Kang guard
Isn't there
Fear of the pug, fear of the pug
I have a phobia that beamboats
Will be there
Have you run your fingers down
The wall
And have you felt your neck skin crawl
When you're searching for a team?
Sometimes when you're scared
To take a look
At the players on the team
You've sensed that someone's
Using beams
Have you ever done Kithomer Elite
Thought you saw Borg probes behind
And turned around and none are there?
And as you quicken up your pace
You find it hard to look again
Because you're sure there's
Borg probes there
Remember teammates from the night before
Debating roleplay and folklore
The unknown troubles on your mind
Maybe your team is playing tricks
You sense, and suddenly eyes fix
On warping borg probes from behind
Fear of the pug, fear of the pug
I have constant fear the Kang guard
Isn?t there
Fear of the pug, fear of the pug
I have a phobia that beamboats
Will be there
or why they don't move away, even after they've gotten destroyed in the first shockwave. even if you're sitting at 5 km there is usually enough time to comfortably reverse out. (unless there is a scumbag tholian who disables your engine at exactly that time. )
If you're in a Vesta and have all three consoles, you can hit the perfect shield right before the shockwave and laugh while everyone else goes boom. Or if you really want to be nasty, hit Feedback Pulse and Multi-dimensional Graviton Shield so that no matter what kind of damage the shockwave is it'll get reflected back and take a good chunk out of the CE even if you still go boom. Better if there's multiple Vestas in the group who can all do the same thing and reflect the damage back from multiple ships.
I am a man who plays alone
And when I'm pugging CSE
At night or queuing ISE
When the timer begins to count
I sometimes feel a little strange
A little anxious when I pug
Fear of the pug, fear of the pug
I have a constant fear the Kang guard
Isn?t there
Fear of the pug, fear of the pug
I have a phobia that beamboats
Will be there
Have you run your fingers down
The wall
And have you felt your neck skin crawl
When you're searching for a team?
Sometimes when you're scared
To take a look
At the players on the team
You've sensed that someone's
Using beams
Have you ever done Kithomer Elite
Thought you saw Borg probes behind
And turned around and none are there?
And as you quicken up your pace
You find it hard to look again
Because you're sure there's
Borg probes there
Remember teammates from the night before
Debating roleplay and folklore
The unknown troubles on your mind
Maybe your team is playing tricks
You sense, and suddenly eyes fix
On warping borg probes from behind
Fear of the pug, fear of the pug
I have constant fear the Kang guard
Isn?t there
Fear of the pug, fear of the pug
I have a phobia that beamboats
Will be there
When I'm Pugging CSE
I am a man who plays alone
Nice take on fear of the dark, although it's funny, it does point out a serious flaw with pugs, some people simply don't know how to build a ship and in other cases don't have a clue what to do.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Comments
I'll tolerate them if they throw me a heal here and there but it seldoms happens
Other cruiser pilots, like one of my ingame friends, has his Odyssey set up for damage - and can easily out-damage a PVE escort.
And then there are pilots who don't know the difference between cruisers and escorts... and unfortunately, if you're stuck with that guy, there's where your issues start cropping up.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Cruisers are great ships IF they are properly built. There are dozens of posts in the forums about how to build a cruiser.
My favorite, http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=280501
This one tells how to put together almost all the currently available cruisers. And they work!
Unfortunatly, the number of cruisers being used now vastly overwelm the number of people that read the forums. :eek:
you can outdps an avg escort with probably anything the game has to offer
a 10k dps cruiser is a waste of the captain commanding it (tho atleast it is useful to have, and (s)he is having fun)
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
i'd be facepawing more over people completely ignoring large fragments, because those things HURT, and to add injury to injury, the explosion goes right through shields
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The amazing thing is some of the...brain trusts...in the game will get themselves blown up every time the shockwave goes off and still somehow manage to score 1st place, despite respawn timers. Meanwhile, those of us who keep the add count down, avoid the shockwave, and control shards get the screws. It's so thoroughly irritating that after getting my second shard today, I considered not even doing the event at all in protest. Getting hit or killed by that shockwave should automatically disqualify you from placement in CE, period. Or, at least, count shard/tholian/MU summon kills. Ugh.
As far as my worst STF experience...well, after today I have a new one. I just bought and kitted out an MU star cruiser, and decided to run CSN to acclimate myself to cruiser play and test my build out in a decent environment. Four players guarding the Kang, the optional failed not because the timer ran out but rather the Kang got taken out (mind you, at the point the Kang got taken out I had taken down two cubes on my own), and I end up chewed out because I apparently let assimilated ships past me.
I don't think my cruiser play and gear setup was too bad four a first outing all things considered. I ended up soloing all three cubes, only got blown up once because I was mouse-looking around trying to figure out where the hell the other four players were rather than minding my self-heals.
Spock's Brain.
People need to stop entering elite missions with crappy gear and not knowing what to do.
Exactly. Thank goodness I've done enough T5 projects to get my ships good space sets/weapons and tweaked my build to fit what I was planning on doing so I all I have to do now is focus on fleet stuff.
Just a quick tip on this for anyone annoyed at people ignoring the shockwave. If you pack heals on your ship, use them on the people that get smashed up. They tweaked the scoring to now include healing done as a factor. I was able to get first place by running my sci heal/CC boat. I pack HE3 (heals over 30K total with 125 aux) and Aux2Structural (can be fired off every 15 seconds). I flew around and just healed everyone and ended up beating them all out over whatever dps they tried to do by sitting still and taking the shockwave in their face. So when I'm flying my sci ship, I love seeing those people now haha.
Edit: Picture proof of sci heal boat first place trophy.
Mine Trap Supporter
Ugh. Maybe it's just my vindictive nature when it comes to bad play, but I'd rather see that shockwave's damage hotfixed through the roof and actually penalize players for gaming the mechanics. I just see that as a band-aid, allowing players to be competitive by enabling the bad play of others.
Spock's Brain.
I totally understand that. Bad players should be penalized for bad play. However I'd like to offer a different point of view to it though, if you don't mind.
I played FFXI for many years and they had content there called "Campaign." The short version of it is that Campaign was a system where NPC armies would attack various outposts and bases throughout the world and we players had to band together to defend our bases or attack enemy bases. Rather than being a DPS fest they had all kinds of calculations like physical damage dealt, physical damage taken, magical damage dealt, magical damage taken, healing done, etc. Basically this made people play as their classes were intended rather than just OMGDPSEVERYTHING. Tanks tanked, healers healed, and the DPS guys did their thing. We all got rewarded for doing our jobs as they were meant to be played.
Now to come back to STO...I see the new healing calculation added in as a step in this direction, one that I dearly want this game to go in. Rather than just award the deeps for their work, we now have something that awards us healers for our work. Instead of everyone just sitting there and taking care of their own ships we now have people actually playing in a more authentic team setting. Cruisers can tank for us (and even take that shockwave), we sci's can keep everyone running with our heals, and the deeps can just do whatever the deeps always do. Is STO at the point where FFXI was years ago as far as rewarding team play? No not at all, it's not even close. But from my perspective this is a step in the right direction. A small step no doubt, but a step nonetheless.
Anyways my intention isn't to try to sway your mind or argue, just to offer another perspective. As I said earlier, I totally understand your frustrations about this. I really do. STO has a long way to go before it has the rich team scoring mechanics of FFXI, but in the meantime perhaps looking at this in a different light may help.
Mine Trap Supporter
Unless there was a very specific bug in the two instances of CE that I checked this in, energy weapons do 1 point of damage per hit whilst the Entity is in absorbtion mode. You could grind maybe 200-300 extra out of it by firing on it whilst it's absorbing. That's very rarely going to decide a position.
If you want to shoot it, use your torps and cutting beam. They still hurt it. I usually go after some fragments or down a Tholian or two.
I really wish they'd rebalance PvE to allow for better balance between the ship classes rather than the current DPS dominant meta we have now. Best Sci ship by a mile is the Vesta, because it can equip DHCs and has the turn rate to use them.
It's good to know that you get points for healing in CE, but it's still only three missions I can think of off the top of my head (the other being Starbase Blockade & NWS) where anything other than pure DPS is actually necessary.
Won't get any argument from me on that lol. I'm a sci captain main and I hate the "balance" (rather, the lack of) we have right now. I did eventually pick up the Vesta to stay somewhat relevant, but yeah we need a complete balance pass for sure.
Mine Trap Supporter
Not to mention extra DPS you get out of not repositioning yourself during and after absorption phases, and alpha striking with stuff like GDF right after the shockwave when you're at critical hull. That will decide position.
That said, I decided to do a few extra CE runs experimenting with ships and builds, today and last night just to see what's up. Now, I'm a science captain and haven't played long enough yet to have ground out T5 in NR/Omega, and the dilithium/zen to be kitted out in Z-store/lockbox ships with Mk XII purples, so I considered even having placed a success. I fully understand I won't be competitive with someone who has a Z-store ship, all the latest goodies, and a few hundred thousand dilithium sunk into their equipment, and I'm totally okay with that. My ships are the free prometheus, mirror universe sovereign, and mirror universe RSV; for the average level of gear (blue/purple Mk XI exchange and mission gear), they are equipped and slotted properly.
On my cruiser (6x disruptor, quantums fore and aft, by the by):
Run 1: Circled the CE nonstop spamming FaW and EPtW, ignoring and healing through shockwaves. Nada.
Run 2: Focused on keeping shards and tholian adds down, moved out of the way for shockwaves and to attack adds. Nada.
Run 3: Used heals and buffs on other players, moved out of the way for shockwaves, concentrated on CE. Nada.
On my science vessel (quantum x2 fore with technician doffs to ensure constant torp steam, beam arrays elsewhere):
Run 1: Exclusively healed and CC'ed shards and tholians. Moved out of the way of shockwaves. Nada.
Run 2: Focused damage on CE, used science boff powers on shards while healing. Avoided shockwaves. Nada.
Run 3: Same as run 2, but ignored shockwaves. That worked about as well as you'd figure in a science vessel.
Run 4: Swapped out my weapons to DBB x2 and photons fore, turrets aft, same as run 2. Still nothing.
On my escort (quantum x1, DBB x1, DHC x2 fore, all turrets aft):
Run 1: Focused on taking down adds with AE, avoided shockwave. Nothing.
Run 2: Focused on CE, avoided shockwave. Nothing.
Run 3: At this point I was a little loopy and decided to just be the biggest jackass I could during one run, to hell with results. I put on the Breen set, put dual rapid reload transphasics and dual DHC's fore, turrets aft, ignored everyone else and all adds, ignored the shockwaves, and just spammed every DPS ability I had on my bar. I blew up twice during the FA and still placed, whereas every prior attempt to actually play the event as apparently intended failed.
Either transphasics and the Breen set are just that freaking good and everyone who says they suck have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, or it's more advantageous to just game the encounter and bugger your teammates in the process.
Spock's Brain.
Or you just got a weak team on that last run. That's always going to be the biggest factor, because all that matters is how you performed relative to your team, so if they're all putting out 1k DPS and you put out 2k, yay you're awesome you got first place, if they're all putting out 12k and you put out 11k, you suck you get last place. Case in point: I took my Vesta into my first CE last night, chained Siphon and spammed TR and GW on the Entity, TBRed fragments when I noticed them getting too close to me or my team, ran away whenever it started absorbing, and spammed cannon fire and CSV from 2-4 km in between, and took first place. I didn't parse it, but I had to have been in the 4-7k DPS range, which your escort could probably beat, and since I didn't use heals on anyone else that's all that was getting counted.
People are really pissing me off with doing stupid stuff and not helping people when they need it and so on.
I would be more amenable to this point, but for the fact on that last run I intentionally gimped my own load-out to the point of near non-viability and proceeded to intentionally play as poorly as I could in every aspect save max DPS on the CE. That includes having been destroyed twice, an event totally avoidable had I actually put forth half an effort to stay alive, during which time (counting respawn timer and repositioning) I was doing nothing at all that contributed to my own score. The only way in retrospect I could have played worse, was to not have used boff abilities or auto-attacked at all.
Of course I understand that FA performance is relative to that of others -- otherwise, I would not have mentioned I had no expectation of remaining competitive with top-, or even middle-, tier players who have put in the time, zen, and dilithium into their ships and characters at all. That doesn't change the fact that, even intentionally playing at the bottom of the barrel in level of skill and gear, but within reasonable expectation of a level 50 player, I still managed to place whereas in any other run I had done in the spirit of the encounter, within the intended parameters, I had not. Random selection, as one finds in PuG queues, alone cannot qualitatively account for that discrepancy.
Now, a word about the Vesta -- of course it's set up in a way that would make it extremely effective in CE. The CE and its shards are weakest against kinetic energy, and you can fly the Vesta without conceding science slots that provide kinetic damage and control in the form of TR, TBR, and GW, or dual heavy cannons and torpedoes that provide decent direct damage. Are you suggesting that's comparable to an escort with all Mk XI gear intentionally set up in a way to provide the least justifiable DPS of a level 50 player?
Spock's Brain.
But the only scoring mechanisms are DPS and HPS, and generating major HPS is pretty close to impossible, so the main thing is DPS. Dying could hurt that, but not necessarily enough. And as for the loadout, dual torps on an escort is generally considered viable with the right doffs (which many people run even with one torp), and while transphasics are generally weak the Breen set would help them some, bringing them closer to par. While less than ideal, it isn't that weak a loadout, particularly since the CE has no shields and you say it has lower resistance to kinetic.
As far as my Vesta, it doesn't have any torps, just the DHCs and turrets, and I run it mainly as a sci ship, with all the weaknesses that entails, and my equipment isn't high quality either. Actually, CE is the most useful I've felt in a long time: hard to kill, helping teamates stay alive with CC, and even debuffing the enemy some. But again, all it scores is DPS and HPS, I wasn't healing anyone else, so it comes down to DPS, and your escort gets stronger turrets, an extra weapon slot, and 4.5 more tac abilities (I have cannon CD doffs) versus my hangar and 3 damage dealing sci abilities.
I'm not saying that it should be working this way of course, I'm just saying that it actually is "working as intended". In any case we're pretty far off topic at this point, so I'll shut up on the subject.
A torp build will go a long way in that encounter. After being unsatisfied with the performance of my regular escort characters I switched one of my engineers (no projectile spec) to one. 2x rare mk. XI quantums, 2 rare torp doffs, 4 rare mk X quantum consoles, 2x CRF 1, 2x HYIII in a regular 9-console patrol escort. Placed first on CE 5 times in a row so far...
or why they don't move away, even after they've gotten destroyed in the first shockwave. even if you're sitting at 5 km there is usually enough time to comfortably reverse out. (unless there is a scumbag tholian who disables your engine at exactly that time.
Are you sure your escort was built right? I've done 6 CE missions in the last couple days and took first in 4 of them. I fly a fleet escort.
Having a blast in the CE's!!!
I am a man who plays alone
And when I'm pugging CSE
At night or queuing ISE
When the timer begins to count
I sometimes feel a little strange
A little anxious when I pug
Fear of the pug, fear of the pug
I have a constant fear the Kang guard
Isn't there
Fear of the pug, fear of the pug
I have a phobia that beamboats
Will be there
Have you run your fingers down
The wall
And have you felt your neck skin crawl
When you're searching for a team?
Sometimes when you're scared
To take a look
At the players on the team
You've sensed that someone's
Using beams
Have you ever done Kithomer Elite
Thought you saw Borg probes behind
And turned around and none are there?
And as you quicken up your pace
You find it hard to look again
Because you're sure there's
Borg probes there
Remember teammates from the night before
Debating roleplay and folklore
The unknown troubles on your mind
Maybe your team is playing tricks
You sense, and suddenly eyes fix
On warping borg probes from behind
Fear of the pug, fear of the pug
I have constant fear the Kang guard
Isn?t there
Fear of the pug, fear of the pug
I have a phobia that beamboats
Will be there
When I'm Pugging CSE
I am a man who plays alone
If you're in a Vesta and have all three consoles, you can hit the perfect shield right before the shockwave and laugh while everyone else goes boom. Or if you really want to be nasty, hit Feedback Pulse and Multi-dimensional Graviton Shield so that no matter what kind of damage the shockwave is it'll get reflected back and take a good chunk out of the CE even if you still go boom. Better if there's multiple Vestas in the group who can all do the same thing and reflect the damage back from multiple ships.
Nice take on fear of the dark, although it's funny, it does point out a serious flaw with pugs, some people simply don't know how to build a ship and in other cases don't have a clue what to do.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius