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  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    uhhh, maybe to prove to ignorant idiots who don't know what the hell they're talking about that rainbows are just as effective as a single color save for an EXTREMELY minor DPV loss, that you aren't even going to notice if you're running any combination of EPtW, plasmonic leech, NI, aux2batt, weapons batteries, RMC, or any other myriad of powers that boost damage or power levels

    Minor DPV-Loss over a whole STF is not really minor ;)

    While I agree with you, that a experienced player wont have any trouble to make a dps-rainbow-boat, he still makes more dmg with a single energytype.

    Most people forget cause and effect: Its not because someone flies a rainbowboat and doesnt do damage that he is a noob. Its the other way around ;)
  • satanailofhwbgsatanailofhwbg Member Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I made a skittles boat once, just for the fun of it - the prefire chamber consoles are like 10k EC on the exchange for Rare Mk XI, so i got 5 of them and it was worth it for the sake of the experiment. I dumped all the types of [Borg] DHCs and turrets I had (disruptor, tetryon, polaron, antiproton) and I PuG-ed. The difference was that the things didn't die as fast as they did. At the time I was in fleet advanced escort....so my DPS with multi-colour was the same as a single colour weapons and 4 tactical consoles instead of five. But there is no way you're going to do 3500 DPS if you've done 7000 before that.....let alone 2000-ish.
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I made a skittles boat once, just for the fun of it - the prefire chamber consoles are like 10k EC on the exchange for Rare Mk XI, so i got 5 of them and it was worth it for the sake of the experiment. I dumped all the types of [Borg] DHCs and turrets I had (disruptor, tetryon, polaron, antiproton) and I PuG-ed. The difference was that the things didn't die as fast as they did. At the time I was in fleet advanced escort....so my DPS with multi-colour was the same as a single colour weapons and 4 tactical consoles instead of five. But there is no way you're going to do 3500 DPS if you've done 7000 before that.....let alone 2000-ish.

    For the real pug-feeling you must fly with 125 engine power und 50+x shields ;)
  • ferdzso0ferdzso0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    woodwhity wrote: »
    For the real pug-feeling you must fly with 125 engine power und 50+x shields ;)

    that is just stupid. why would you want 50+ shield power? you need 125 engine power so you gain mobility on your odyssey and the rest should go to aux even if you dont have sci powers, simply because aux power effects procrate of weapons, so you would gain more dmg through the different weapon types than from one single type with full weapon power. it is proven by many fin examples

    10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
  • smokeybacon90smokeybacon90 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    uhhh, maybe to prove to ignorant idiots who don't know what the hell they're talking about that rainbows are just as effective as a single color save for an EXTREMELY minor DPV loss, that you aren't even going to notice if you're running any combination of EPtW, plasmonic leech, NI, aux2batt, weapons batteries, RMC, or any other myriad of powers that boost damage or power levels

    Of course you will, a consolidated energy type build would benefit from those buffs also, and the damage difference due to consoles and set boosts would never be mitigated. There is no defence for an intentional rainbow build, especially not that wild fantasy about proc synergies.
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  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    ferdzso0 wrote: »
    that is just stupid. why would you want 50+ shield power? you need 125 engine power so you gain mobility on your odyssey and the rest should go to aux even if you dont have sci powers, simply because aux power effects procrate of weapons, so you would gain more dmg through the different weapon types than from one single type with full weapon power. it is proven by many fin examples

    You do realise that he was just joking/being sarcastic, right?

    Not to mention aux power has no effect on proc rate. Could you provide the examples you mention?

    Edit: Wait, my bad, you were being sarcastic too. *Disembowels self to atone*
  • fraghul2000fraghul2000 Member Posts: 1,590 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Shadowfang is still right, though, that the fact alone that it's a rainbow/skittleship doesn't account for the fact that it's doing low dps. There are about a hundred different things that will cause a much bigger loss of DPS or performance, they just aren't as obvious.

    People just call it out, because they don't have the attention or the grasp to notice anything else happening, like a cannon/torp escort constantly buffing itself with BO, or some people will put down players who just seem to be running rainbow builds (anyone flying a Galor at the time it was released will understand me here). Those are the same dimwits that think that the amount of accolade points are an indicator as to how good someone will perform in an STF or Fleet Event.

    As i have mentioned before: Anyone who puts down rainbows or skittles should post his/her setup in this thread and I'll bet you people in here could take 98% of them apart and find DPS losses greater than the difference between an Mk.XII pure energy and Mk.X rainbow build.
  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Well I had an interesting one yesterday.

    Was running ISE with 3 other Feds and a Klingon in a BoP. We burn down the first few mobs in no time. So far so good. We then go to the left transformer and get to work. Everyone follows 10% and we knock it out no problems. Everything's still good. Suddenly the BoP cloaks and runs away and leaves the rest of us to fight the nanite spheres. He then sits over on the other side of the map next to the cube above the right hand side transformer. After a minute or so he starts complaining in team chat. "Waiting on you guys to finish off the spheres." "Still waiting so I can ambush this cube."

    At this point the other 4 of us are like WTF are you doing? Come help us fight you ****. He starts saying things like how BoPs are supposed to be ambush craft and not direct fighters or some BS like that. We finish off the spheres and start moving over to the right transformer. By now it's pretty much just the 4 of us fighting since this BoP is a moron. Throughout the whole rest of the fight he keeps complaining about how BoPs have paper hulls and can't fight. He then starts going off on why we expected him to do anything because his captain's name was, and I quote, "Arabic for Infidel." LOLwut? Anyways the 4 of us managed to make the optional and did damn good despite this idiot. He kept complaining all the way up to the point where I grabbed my loot bag and warped out. So ridiculous.
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  • stardestroyer001stardestroyer001 Member Posts: 2,615 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    lan451 wrote: »
    Well I had an interesting one yesterday.

    Was running ISE with 3 other Feds and a Klingon in a BoP. We burn down the first few mobs in no time. So far so good. We then go to the left transformer and get to work. Everyone follows 10% and we knock it out no problems. Everything's still good. Suddenly the BoP cloaks and runs away and leaves the rest of us to fight the nanite spheres. He then sits over on the other side of the map next to the cube above the right hand side transformer. After a minute or so he starts complaining in team chat. "Waiting on you guys to finish off the spheres." "Still waiting so I can ambush this cube."

    At this point the other 4 of us are like WTF are you doing? Come help us fight you ****. He starts saying things like how BoPs are supposed to be ambush craft and not direct fighters or some BS like that. We finish off the spheres and start moving over to the right transformer. By now it's pretty much just the 4 of us fighting since this BoP is a moron. Throughout the whole rest of the fight he keeps complaining about how BoPs have paper hulls and can't fight. He then starts going off on why we expected him to do anything because his captain's name was, and I quote, "Arabic for Infidel." LOLwut? Anyways the 4 of us managed to make the optional and did damn good despite this idiot. He kept complaining all the way up to the point where I grabbed my loot bag and warped out. So ridiculous.


    And that, in a nutshell, is the ultimate problem with noobs in STFs. Not that they can't help out, it's when they refuse to even try.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    lan451 wrote: »
    After a minute or so he starts complaining in team chat. "Waiting on you guys to finish off the spheres." "Still waiting so I can ambush this cube."

    At this point the other 4 of us are like WTF are you doing? Come help us fight you ****. He starts saying things like how BoPs are supposed to be ambush craft and not direct fighters or some BS like that.

    some people just take the intended role of their ships way too seriously

    i can take a guess as to why his ship has paper-thin hull, and it's not because of the BoP's low base HP
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • leonshayleonshay Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Cure Found, space elite.

    Me: fleet heavy cruiser retro, specced heal/tank.

    Them:
    • Defiant. Good DPS and knew the strat, but would pointedly leave teammates struggling with spawns instead of helping kill them.
    • Prometheus. Oh lord, this captain. Took no actions except sitting motionless and unloading on cubes. Died dozens of times due to total lack of self-preservation instinct. Never touched a BoP or spawn, even when they flew right past him. Advocated for counter-productive strats such as killing the cubes early.
    • Two Odysseys. Apparent cube-phobia, because they never approached to help with probes. That's okay though, because they somehow had their hands full desperately trying to kill BoPs.

    With only the Defiant and me on probes (I'm not counting the Prometheus with all the time spent dead/damaged), things were slow. The total lack of teamwork meant Negh'var/Raptor spawns were also a hot mess, and I had already given up on optional. Still, things were basically under control until we started popping cubes. By the time we popped the second, the two poor Odysseys had totally lost control of the situation and the Kang was at 20%. I swept in to heal but it was too late, and we lose the match outright.

    It was the Wizard of Oz group. The Defiant needed a heart, the Odysseys needed courage, and the Prometheus needed a gorram brain.
  • edited April 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • dkratascodkratasco Member Posts: 585 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    No, the weirdest thing is to see those cruisers being killed by single probe in few seconds.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    dkratasco wrote: »
    No, the weirdest thing is to see those cruisers being killed by single probe in few seconds.

    if a player gets killed by a probe in cure, that is a truly epic fail because those probes have no weapons :P

    same goes for probes in khitomer; they have weapons, but they don't fire on you
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • leonshayleonshay Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    if a player gets killed by a probe in cure, that is a truly epic fail because those probes have no weapons :P

    Always fun to see people throwing Jam Sensors on Khitomer/Cure probes as well. Good job guys; now you're safe.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    leonshay wrote: »
    Always fun to see people throwing Jam Sensors on Khitomer/Cure probes as well. Good job guys; now you're safe.
    people actually do that? *double facepaw* (because one just isn't enough)
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • stardestroyer001stardestroyer001 Member Posts: 2,615 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    people actually do that? *double facepaw* (because one just isn't enough)

    Yes, they do. It's quite sad.

    In my mind, any ship that is killed by one sphere is a fail. A sphere takes a while to take down (if not a Tac in an Escort), but by itself, its weapons are hardly lethal.
    stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
    Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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  • nightsistersnightsisters Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    How about those player's that don't repair their injuries and have like a dozen or more during a match...


    Hmmm how about those that dps warp gates at close range and get themself's killed repeatly over & over & over and don't even learn...

    I'll add another..

    How about a those doing probe duty in Khitomer and can't nail all the probes before they warp out and you fail the bonus...
  • ferdzso0ferdzso0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    yesterday was fun.
    joined an ise. there was a ody (simple ody no dps), a rainbow intrepid, an afker escort and a beamscort...
    at the generators I started to work on one, but beamscort joined at 40% so I brought down another to around 10%, while the two others brought the 3rd one to 60% and left one alone. the problem was, that our beamscort friend couldnt realize the low dps, so blew early, and with the low dmg done overall (1500 dps was the highest of theirs...) we pretty much failed the optional as one grav well from me was not enough, while they went off fighting spheres...

    when we brought the cube, it was all over me, so I decided to have fun, and pretty much took it down to 40% alone, while everyone else took the gate down to a similar level (yeah right...). when I finally died because I was peeking where them were. I died. went back to the 40% gate killed it, and then I just bugged out to start a new ise as I needed to get a nice parse (overall I pretty much did 8k dps, while tanking cube, doing everything, and only left them a 40% cube, so noone can really balme me for anything but spending 15 minutes in an ise, which is a crime in itself)

    10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    tactical consoles boost a weapon's base damage, before anything else is added; replacing a blue mk xi specific console with the general one would take the DPS boost of a common mk xi beam array from its base of 210 DPV + the 26% boost of a specialized console, which is an added 54.6 and totals 264.6, down to 246.75 (210 *17.5% equaling 36.75), for a grand total DPV loss of 17.85 for that one beam array...big freaking whoop
    Without any other variables, with only 6 weapons, that's 107.1 DPV, which for a Beam Array translates to 87 DPS.

    That's a loss of 26,100 in a good 5 minute run, a loss of 52,200 in an alright 10 minute run, and a loss of 78,300 in a minimal 15 minute run.

    Why would anyone who knows what they're doing give up damage for no reason?
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    darkjeff wrote: »
    Without any other variables, with only 6 weapons, that's 107.1 DPV, which for a Beam Array translates to 87 DPS.

    That's a loss of 26,100 in a good 5 minute run, a loss of 52,200 in an alright 10 minute run, and a loss of 78,300 in a minimal 15 minute run.

    Why would anyone who knows what they're doing give up damage for no reason?
    fun, maybe? last i checked, this was still a GAME, and people play GAMES to have FUN

    if someone wants to have fun by using a rainbow setup, who are you to tell them they can't?
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Some people have fun griefing others too. Who are you to tell them they can't ruin everybody else's fun? That's an indefensible position and I don't see your point. The assumption is that everyone wants to do their best, especially in a group event. If you don't, then you're a bad teammate and negatively affecting everyone else. This is a thread of over nineteen hundred posts condemning that very thing.

    So the question stands - why would anyone choose to be less effective? Generally they don't, so it's out of ignorance. If they're ignorant about something basic like that (basic because it's readily available information on tooltips), they're probably ignorant about other stuff too.

    It's a common indicator of ignorance, not the cause of incompetence (which is ignorance itself). There's no reason for anyone to choose rainbows if they intend to contribute as much to the team as possible. If they don't intend to do their best, that's a separate issue entirely.
  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I've no issue with rainbows usually, but I have less patience for injuries.

    I've just had my worst ISE run in my STO experience, not all of use performed admirably but one ship was just...well, let me show you (names edited out).

    I hope it was a troll, because I don't want to believe players to this intentionally. Rainbows are not that great, but these are just terrible.
  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    coupaholic wrote: »
    well, let me show you (names edited out).

    At least you can only have a max of 50 injuries. He is half way to not getting any worse.
  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    coupaholic wrote: »
    I've no issue with rainbows usually, but I have less patience for injuries.

    I've just had my worst ISE run in my STO experience, not all of use performed admirably but one ship was just...well, let me show you (names edited out).

    I hope it was a troll, because I don't want to believe players to this intentionally. Rainbows are not that great, but these are just terrible.

    :S

    I think some of them actually don't understand the injury system and that it really hampers your ships performance. Either that or they don't even know that there's an injury system in place. The other day I was running my Defera dalies and clicked on a ship I didn't recognize (sometimes at first glace I don't recognize what the ship is in passing) and it had a whole bar of injuries like your screenshot there.

    Now that I think about it, maybe some other sort of mechanism to let players know they are injured are is needed. Instead of just a bar down by your other buffs perhaps something like the low ship HP screen flashing or maybe some display that says "Alert! Ship systems damaged!" or...I don't know...something. Make it irritating enough that people will actually want to fix their damage instead of charging right back into the fight. Hmm... I may have to think more on that idea for a bit.

    Edit: You know what...yeah now that I think about those damage icons are blue as shown in your screenshot. Some might be mistaking it for a buff icon and not a bad damage icon. I propose we need another system for alerting players that their ship has been damaged and needs repairs.
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  • jake81499jake81499 Member Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    fun, maybe? last i checked, this was still a GAME, and people play GAMES to have FUN

    if someone wants to have fun by using a rainbow setup, who are you to tell them they can't?

    Some of us just like to finish the optionals in 4 minutes or less rather that 4 minutes or more.
  • dashrendar1138dashrendar1138 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Someone yelled at me yesterday for coming in to an STF with a "Vesta class with cannons". I didn't get it. Would they prefer a weaker weapon?
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  • ferdzso0ferdzso0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Someone yelled at me yesterday for coming in to an STF with a "Vesta class with cannons". I didn't get it. Would they prefer a weaker weapon?

    they were obviously right. the vesta hasnt the turnrate for cannons. you should put all turrets on it, different colors each, because sci ships have a bonus for proc rate, so you would disable the enemies subsystems while doing plasma which deals more dmg because of the disruptor proc. I do this, and it is very effective, things just melt

    10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
  • dkratascodkratasco Member Posts: 585 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    lan451 wrote: »
    :S

    I think some of them actually don't understand the injury system and that it really hampers your ships performance. Either that or they don't even know that there's an injury system in place. The other day I was running my Defera dalies and clicked on a ship I didn't recognize (sometimes at first glace I don't recognize what the ship is in passing) and it had a whole bar of injuries like your screenshot there.

    Now that I think about it, maybe some other sort of mechanism to let players know they are injured are is needed. Instead of just a bar down by your other buffs perhaps something like the low ship HP screen flashing or maybe some display that says "Alert! Ship systems damaged!" or...I don't know...something. Make it irritating enough that people will actually want to fix their damage instead of charging right back into the fight. Hmm... I may have to think more on that idea for a bit.

    Edit: You know what...yeah now that I think about those damage icons are blue as shown in your screenshot. Some might be mistaking it for a buff icon and not a bad damage icon. I propose we need another system for alerting players that their ship has been damaged and needs repairs.

    Most of them know pretty well about their injuries. Just ask them to repair them and you will hear that they wan't spend EC for components and use them at STF because they can repair for free in Starbase.
  • notorycznynotoryczny Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    FED fleet alert. Defiant with tractor repulsors and skittles Atrox, also with repulsors. They enjoyed pushing stuff away and chasing it so much that the game ended with timer fail.
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