Anyone who doesn't simply parrot "ZOMG skittleboaaat!", but really does the math, will see that.
I'd bet you ten million EC, that if we take a closer look at the builds and playstyles of people who are yelling at technicolor/skitlleboats, we'll have a 99% chance to find flaws that will outweigh the use of m&m's and rainbows.
You don't need to do the math, just watch them. And yes, along with the DPS loss there is probably pleanty more wrong with the build.
My fleet requires the reading of certain parts of these forums. That includes this one and it's wonderful. Rest assured, I will not be using rainbows or skittles. They are banned in my fleet anyhow. I'm a newbe and I think all newbes should be required to read this. Its both educational and funny.
In NORMAL you blow the cubes as fast as you can, immediately, regardless of the condition of the probes under the next one.
IN NORMAL.
In ELITE, doing this is 99% of the time the single stupidest thing you CAN do-it blows the mission IMMEDIATELY.
EVEN WHEN YOU HAVE TIER 4 REP!!!!!!!!!!!!
are we clear? do we need diagrammes?
Elites do NOT WORK LIKE NORMAL RUNS!!!!
Twice tonight, separate toons, what should have been groups that could faceroll the map, same (bleeping) problem-some dickhead blows the left or right cube before the probes are even STARTED on the other two.
T4 Omega Rep shields and Romulan Hyper-Plasma torpedoes do not substitute for using your head, and when the Bird of Prey is drawing the AGGRO ff your Fedscort, Armitage, and/or Defiant, you have what is colloquially termed, "A PROBLEM".
I had a Negh'var chase me half way across the damn map again-cloaked.
TWICE. I KNOW I'm not doing THAT much DPS-I can READ.
Actually the guys on the EliteSTF channel like to do RML, nor MRRMLL. It's kinda funny tbh, esp when it fails and they all get mad at each other XD. But it's usually spectacular when it succeeds.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
In NORMAL you blow the cubes as fast as you can, immediately, regardless of the condition of the probes under the next one.
IN NORMAL.
In ELITE, doing this is 99% of the time the single stupidest thing you CAN do-it blows the mission IMMEDIATELY.
.
The solution I've found is to go mid and kill the probes by yourself. That way even if they do prematurely blow a cube, the 2nd cube should be prepped and ready to go..
95% of the time I'm usually done with my probe and negvar spawn before the other 3-4 people clear their cube.
Agreed - using a rainbow/skittle setup indicates that the player in question lacks some understanding of ship setups. Though to be fair, discounting those who argue that such setups are viable, it really is a classic case of "you don't know unless you are told otherwise".
Certainly, I ran a semi-rainbow build back in my VERY early days (up until I hit Lt-Commander) but soon learnt, from visiting the forums, that sticking to a single weapon type produces vastly superior results.
I think the "vastly" part is a bit exaggerated here on the forum. Maybe tomorrow ill post a parse of a skittle setup compared to a pure energy setup just to show the difference isn't really that big. It's about the same as the difference between a 4 and 5 tac console escort. On cruisers and sic ships, it's even less prevalent (not as many tac consoles). Of all the ways to TRIBBLE up your DPS, it's probably the most often cited, while also being on of the least attributing factors.
[...] when the Bird of Prey is drawing the AGGRO ff your Fedscort, Armitage, and/or Defiant, you have what is colloquially termed, "A PROBLEM".
I had a Negh'var chase me half way across the damn map again-cloaked.
TWICE. I KNOW I'm not doing THAT much DPS-I can READ.
I feel your pain.
Had that happen to me quite a lot on my KDF tac, in a Hegh'ta.
The problem isn't that I do inferior dps, per se. Just a straight up cannons and 1 quantum build, no trics or BO or any such threat generators. It's just that these fed escorts have 1-2 tactical consoles more, and should therefore be able to out-dps me easily, all other factors being equal.
In practice, this math rarely pans out.
Then again, I tend to have the same problem on my tac (mirror) Vor'cha, my eng Negh'var and my fed sci Wells.
Not true. There's a lot of stuff that maters. There's heals, cooperation, death, tanking, quite a bit of stuff. It would be way easy for a savy programmer to figure out.
I would rather have a group of 5 people each +6k DPS, that do not cooperate, bad at healing, so they are bad at tanking, so they die a lot.
owait! with 6k+ DPS stuff do not survive long enough to even kill you, so you do not need to heal nor tank anything. also you cant TRIBBLE up with that amount of DPS, because you can kill anything just in time, before anything bad could happen (also appearantly those who deal massive dps, somehow easily survive big enemies...)
so yeah, I would take DPS over anything else in this game.
also, I said 8k dps, because that is a fairly high number. tbh a group of 5k would breeze trhough anything.
yesterday I joined an ISE, where the 5th didnt show up, and we finished with 5 mins still on the clock. and to my surprise I only dealt 6k dps, but the other three team mates dealt 4k each.
in conclusion: STF=DPS, other parts of the game DPS=/=you can getaway with low dps if you are doing something else well
Maybe tomorrow ill post a parse of a skittle setup compared to a pure energy setup just to show the difference isn't really that big.
There's a big difference between posting the numbers and doing the mission. When you watch a skittle or rainbow/technicolor boat spend way too much time trying to kill a BOP then you know there is really something major wrong with the build. There is enough of a difference even in a well set up skittle boat to make it not worth a hoot. So why even bother with them. Let the noobes have their day with the skittles and rainbow/technicolor boom boats and the rest of us will go on doing all the killing.
Like I said and many others have said, we have all had our own rainbow/technicolor boats at one time or another. It took me one mission to see that it wasn't any good, it just takes others much much longer.
It's still fun to post about or experiances with them and watch them fumble around chasing a BOP all the way back to the Kang without making a dent in the shields. It's just not a lot of fun if we lose a mission because of them. But then too, there are a lot more ways to lose a mission than with a technicolor/rainbow boom boat.
There's a big difference between posting the numbers and doing the mission.)
No, there really isn't. The damage parse would come directly from an eSTF. If you'd like I'll post a video as well, although that might need to wait an extra day or two. 90% of skittle/rainbow boats DPS problems have little to do with their weapons selection.
I would rather have a group of 5 people each +6k DPS, that do not cooperate, bad at healing, so they are bad at tanking, so they die a lot.
A group of 5 people with +6k DPS might be a bit far and few between. I've done a number of STF's with excellent groups who could finish an STF in nothing flat. But the normal STF isn't all that great.
Just completed...
CSN
I pug in and say 'HI' as usual.
No responce.
I buzz over to the right and start on the nodes.
All four of the others head to the Kang.
I finish all the nodes, no help, and the Cube, no help.
I fly over to Kang and killing a couple Borg that the rest were strugling with.
I see one ship setting about 15K off in the distance.
Two of the others sport Rainbow/Technicolor beams and one is dead.
I fly to the Center and kill three of the nodes, still no help.
Boom, Kang dead.
I never noticed the optional fail. If I had I could have saved the Kang by going and doing what the Rainbow/Technicolor Boom Boats and the Farmer couldn't.
One side claims that, all other factors being in working order, skittles would not detract too much from damage/success.
The other side claims that no, skittles are ineffective and bad, because they almost always are an indication of the other problems present.
I think everybody generally agrees, here, but some are curious what the overall effect is of skittles vs non-skittles, if the ship is flown "correctly" other than that.
it's possible-not likely, but possible, I suppose, to have a rainboat and be effective-moderately, anywah.
run all torp consoles with HYT and Torp Spreads, all projectile DoFFs, and the right sci powers, maybe, so that it doesn't matter WHAT energy weps you're hauling, because it's all about the projectiles.
MAYBE.
.
A pure energy boat works just fine. It's not optimal, but I'd wager I could post higher damage numbers in a pure energy skittle setup than about 98% of the folks your likely to come across in pug eSTFs do in their single energy boats. It's far more about skills, key binds, etc than it is your weapon layout,
No, there really isn't. The damage parse would come directly from an eSTF. If you'd like I'll post a video as well, although that might need to wait an extra day or two. 90% of skittle/rainbow boats DPS problems have little to do with their weapons selection.
I've seen more than enough experiances with skittle boats, no video needed, no numbers needed.
So you admit it's the pilot then, and not the weapons. Works for me.
Yes, from what I've seen skittle and rainbow setups are normally flown by unexperianced pilots with lousy setup. In the hands of an experianced pilot they might do fair, but I've never seen one and don't really expect to. I've seen hundreds of skittles and rainbows and cringe every time. I've also seen shuttles in STF's before they were banned, Farmers, Sabateurs, Directors, Cryers, Lost Souls, Noobes and much much more. I'll always cringe when I see a Skittle and nothing will change that. No numbers, no videos or anything else.
If you want to see what other people think of Skittles and Rainbows, read the whole forum.
I'm gonna drop this. This sig is for posting or experiances with STF's and fleet events.
Nuff said. Back to the bad STF's.
Trouble is I don't think I've ever really seen an effective skittle/rainbow boat. They almost always have trouble taking down whatever they're shooting at without assistance, explode frequently, and then pretty much fly back in and repeat the exact same thing that sent them to respawn oblivion a few moments prior. They can be quite a menace too sometimes - fly in, get everything's attention, and then explode leaving everyone else to clean up their mess.
I've heard the argument, in Zone Chat, that equiping multiple weapon-types is more effective than using a single-type as the "enemies shields can't adapt to them all".
O, I was just summarising the argument, really. I didn't really see anybody disagreeing on that count, and I wouldn't ever go there myself. I was just pointing out that the argument wasn't really an argument, but confusion started by somebody wondering whether a good captain would be much hindered by mismatched weapon types.
I was horrendously bored, so I decided to go full skittle-raptor with my KDF tac toon. I warned my team-mates from the get-go, but they were cool with it (advantage to almost everyone in the PESTF channel being friendly with each other) and we got started. Sufficed to say, full skittle DHCs are actually still very effective, simply because they are DHCs on a raptor. I wasn't averaging my usual 3k per hit that I get from running full disruptors, instead I was down to about 2k per hit. But I was still able to do enough damage to get get aggro and donatra aggro every so often.
So sufficed to say, skittle-boats are viable, even if not as effective as pure ships. It's mostly the player it would seem (I like to think I am a decent player, at least for PvE, I have no illusions to my scrubness at PvP), and since I am a 5/10 player, I made a skittle-boat work. I much prefer my full disruptor build however.
Anyways, sufficed to say, we won, and my team-mates were laughing at me once they realized I wasn't kidding XD.
So TL;DR =
Heretic was dumb enough to do a skittle-boat. And it worked. Wasn't as effective as a pure energy build, but can still work. So it comes down to purely player it would seem. Since I only lost 30% of my damage.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
In which case it would seem that the majority of the players flying around in rainbow/skittle boats simply have bad ship setups.
It may not be bad ship setups so much as general incompetence in play. I mean, I was chaining abilities together like a boss, like most experienced players do (you know, constant TT uptime, CRF combined with APB and APO, the usual). A lot of those skittle and rainbow boats don't do that. Tbh, the majority of ships like that, I often wonder if they even have BOffs equipped, I see so few abilities activating.
But the reason why most of these skittle/rainbow boats die is they don't use tac team. I hardly ever see CRF/CSV/anything resembling an attack pattern. And EPtX? What's that? That's what really makes them weak and sets them apart. Their either lack of usage of BOff abilities, or incompetent usage if they do.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
I started as a noob with the normal stf's. I learned from people and when I was ready in skills, equipment, I started with the elites. These days I'm starting to believe that everyone is justing doing elites because it gives you lots more rewards...
Not only is it frustrating but it becomes harder and harder to find a random team that is able to get the job done..
I was going to respond to Heritic last night but as I was setting there my back popped out. Ouch ouch ouch.. The kids were wanting to play STO anyhow. Now I can't get out of bed. LOL.
Way back when the earth was young, (I'm well past my 1000 days) I tried the rainbow/technicolor thing. I'd just made admiral upper half. I didn't play constantly back then like I do now. My family has even gotten involved now which they weren't back then. WoW was what we were all doing and still do every now and then.
Anyhow I was having troubles with my build. I don't remember what ship I was flying but it was before the excelsior had come out. I read as much as I could on the ship builds from the forums but I still went boom often but really no more often than anyone else.
I do recall that I tried every type of weapon that I could, switching them back and forth until I settled for APs.
One day in a enemy signal contact I saw someone blasting away with rainbows. I didn't notice at that time if he was making a dent or not. I thought it looked cool and remembered the Borg in Star Trek and how the could adapt to the weapons. Rainbows suddenly made since.
I took out all but one AP front and rear and added one of each other weapons type until the slots were full. I filled the tactical slots with directed energy consoles and went looking for a fight.
I entered a Borg enemy signal contact and started shooting away.
Hmmmm. Something was wrong. The probes weren't dying as fast as they did before. It took several seconds longer. My numbers weren't in the thousand like they weren't before. I moused over the weapons and saw that the DPS was quite a bit lower than it was before. I have the exact figures in my STO notes but they are jumbled with something else so I'm thinking they are running about 30 to 100 DPS lower.
I continued the mission until everything was dead and waited for the next round. While waiting I put everything back the way it was before. All antiproton. The mission started and things went boom again and the DPS was back where it was before.
The mission ended and I reinstalled the rainbows the way they were the first go.
The mission started and down went the numbers.
Someone yelled in chat, "LOL Rainbows." There was another remark that came by also bit it had a lot of $j)/@ in it.
Anyhow, I tried a couple more times and the numbers were low enough to make me decide against using rainbows or skittles. Plus the remarks from others were not cool and I didn't want that kind of publicity.
Rainbows and skittles are banned within my fleet. If anyone is seen using them they will be kicked. It's a small fleet of mostly family members but they know better.
To this day, if I see a ship with rainbows I am going to say in chat, "LOL Rainbows" if I get the chance.
On another note, I recently helped one member set up a fleet boat with the polarized disruptor beams. Holy moly that ship has some DPS. :P
Reading this thread has given me excellent ideas as to what NOT to do in setting up a ship. For starters, I actually pick an energy type and stick to it (for instance, my Fed Prometheus [non-MVAE yet, too broke right now] has a pure phaser setup, my Klink Negh'var has a
pure tetryon setup, and my Klink BOP [level 31 so far lol] has a pure disruptor setup with quad disruptor cannons.
So far I haven't seen really terribad STFs, but that might be because for the time being I'm still in the process of getting my feet wet and running normal PUG STFs.
I'm so tired of incompetent people i could screem.
I just finished a csn. We won but barely.
At the beginning I went to the Kang first which is something I never do. ALL 4 TEAM MATES FOLLOWED!
Nobody flew left, nobody flew right, nobody flew to the center. Nobody was taking out cubes or nodes.
I typed, Is anyone going to take on the cubes? Nobody said or did anything. I left the group and flew over to the right cube and started attacking.
I get down to the cube and someone starts yelling 10% 10% only take the cube to 10%.
I said, this is a NORMAL! He said even in normal your only to take it to 10%.
I typed LOL and killed it.
Now the guy is peaved. :mad: He starts calling me a noob and tells me I need to leave and telling me we were going to lose the match because I killed the cube.
I just flew over to the middle and started shooting.
I then typed, If your so good then get out here and help. You don't need 4 people at the Kang.
Nobody came in to help. This guy was saying how he's going to report me and blackball me. I just typed LOL. Someone else is typing LOL now and LMAOROF. They said, Go Gettum Nelly! I laughed.
I'm at the third cube now. Three of the other ships come out of hiding and start helping. The loudmouth was still setting at the Kang.
The third cube is quickly dispatched.
The guy at the Kang doesn't hail the Kang like he should so I flew in to do it with only a couple seconds to spare while the other three worked on the the warships.
The carrier emerges and I finally see, low and behold, the loudmouth has rainbows. PLUS he keeps pushing the carrier away from us. :eek: Suprise Suprise
The mission ends, I type We're going to lose huh??? But the guy leaves without a word before I send it. I was happy though, I pulled 5 of the borg nural processors.
I'm so tired of incompetent people i could screem.
I just finished a csn. We won but barely.
At the beginning I went to the Kang first which is something I never do. ALL 4 TEAM MATES FOLLOWED!
Nobody flew left, nobody flew right, nobody flew to the center. Nobody was taking out cubes or nodes.
I typed, Is anyone going to take on the cubes? Nobody said or did anything. I left the group and flew over to the right cube and started attacking.
I get down to the cube and someone starts yelling 10% 10% only take the cube to 10%.
I said, this is a NORMAL! He said even in normal your only to take it to 10%.
I typed LOL and killed it.
Now the guy is peaved. :mad: He starts calling me a noob and tells me I need to leave and telling me we were going to lose the match because I killed the cube.
I just flew over to the middle and started shooting.
I then typed, If your so good then get out here and help. You don't need 4 people at the Kang.
Nobody came in to help. This guy was saying how he's going to report me and blackball me. I just typed LOL. Someone else is typing LOL now and LMAOROF. They said, Go Gettum Nelly! I laughed.
I'm at the third cube now. Three of the other ships come out of hiding and start helping. The loudmouth was still setting at the Kang.
The third cube is quickly dispatched.
The guy at the Kang doesn't hail the Kang like he should so I flew in to do it with only a couple seconds to spare while the other three worked on the the warships.
The carrier emerges and I finally see, low and behold, the loudmouth has rainbows. PLUS he keeps pushing the carrier away from us. :eek: Suprise Suprise
The mission ends, I type We're going to lose huh??? But the guy leaves without a word before I send it. I was happy though, I pulled 5 of the borg nural processors.
You know what the funniest part about this post was (despite the blatant but probably deserving arrogance of the poster)? Even on CSE we don't do 10%. That's an antiquated and inefficient method of doing the map. The standard now is MRRMLL, and for the really high DPS teams you see on EliteSTF and some of us bored guys gone bawlzy on PublicEliteSTF do RML. 10%? Whuzzat?
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to be arrogant. Aggravated would be a better word. I haven't seen, or at least not posted many bad STF's or Fleet Events in the last few days. That one was a wopper so I thougt I'd share.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to be arrogant. Aggravated would be a better word. I haven't seen, or at least not posted many bad STF's or Fleet Events in the last few days. That one was a wopper so I thougt I'd share.
Oh no, please, you are deserving of the arrogance, since your skill level was at that point. It was not meant to be sarcastic or insulting. XD
Probably one of those, who has read something and starts repeating it like a parrot....I guess it would have taken too long to explain that the 10% rule applies only to ISE.
These days I feel really lucky if there is another player in a PuG at around my level, especially in KASE - it makes the things much easier.
Let's see how today's changes will affect the behaviour of the NPCs. As far as I understood the things changed, the overall damage of the NPCs remains the same, just the variation of the magnitude would be more constant.
I really hope, that they wouldn't nerf the SSR from +1k to +50 per 6 sec. as I speculated yesterday in the fleet chat. If that is the "works as intended" value (+50), I would feel severely screwedup in choosing it instead of the kinetic damage proc.
Probably one of those, who has read something and starts repeating it like a parrot....I guess it would have taken too long to explain that the 10% rule applies only to ISE.
These days I feel really lucky if there is another player in a PuG at around my level, especially in KASE - it makes the things much easier.
Let's see how today's changes will affect the behaviour of the NPCs. As far as I understood the things changed, the overall damage of the NPCs remains the same, just the variation of the magnitude would be more constant.
I really hope, that they wouldn't nerf the SSR from +1k to +50 per 6 sec. as I speculated yesterday in the fleet chat. If that is the "works as intended" value (+50), I would feel severely screwedup in choosing it instead of the kinetic damage proc.
I have an inside source that said they would at most nerf SSR 20%. As for the NPCs, their overall damage has been reduced. By a lot. And the top cap has also been greatly reduced. Even though there will be fewer bottom duds, doesn't change the fact that a global 10% damage reduction, and a 20% plasma burn reduction are still significant.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Comments
You don't need to do the math, just watch them. And yes, along with the DPS loss there is probably pleanty more wrong with the build.
Actually the guys on the EliteSTF channel like to do RML, nor MRRMLL. It's kinda funny tbh, esp when it fails and they all get mad at each other XD. But it's usually spectacular when it succeeds.
The solution I've found is to go mid and kill the probes by yourself. That way even if they do prematurely blow a cube, the 2nd cube should be prepped and ready to go..
95% of the time I'm usually done with my probe and negvar spawn before the other 3-4 people clear their cube.
I think the "vastly" part is a bit exaggerated here on the forum. Maybe tomorrow ill post a parse of a skittle setup compared to a pure energy setup just to show the difference isn't really that big. It's about the same as the difference between a 4 and 5 tac console escort. On cruisers and sic ships, it's even less prevalent (not as many tac consoles). Of all the ways to TRIBBLE up your DPS, it's probably the most often cited, while also being on of the least attributing factors.
I feel your pain.
Had that happen to me quite a lot on my KDF tac, in a Hegh'ta.
The problem isn't that I do inferior dps, per se. Just a straight up cannons and 1 quantum build, no trics or BO or any such threat generators. It's just that these fed escorts have 1-2 tactical consoles more, and should therefore be able to out-dps me easily, all other factors being equal.
In practice, this math rarely pans out.
Then again, I tend to have the same problem on my tac (mirror) Vor'cha, my eng Negh'var and my fed sci Wells.
I would rather have a group of 5 people each +6k DPS, that do not cooperate, bad at healing, so they are bad at tanking, so they die a lot.
owait! with 6k+ DPS stuff do not survive long enough to even kill you, so you do not need to heal nor tank anything. also you cant TRIBBLE up with that amount of DPS, because you can kill anything just in time, before anything bad could happen (also appearantly those who deal massive dps, somehow easily survive big enemies...)
so yeah, I would take DPS over anything else in this game.
also, I said 8k dps, because that is a fairly high number. tbh a group of 5k would breeze trhough anything.
yesterday I joined an ISE, where the 5th didnt show up, and we finished with 5 mins still on the clock. and to my surprise I only dealt 6k dps, but the other three team mates dealt 4k each.
in conclusion: STF=DPS, other parts of the game DPS=/=you can getaway with low dps if you are doing something else well
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
There's a big difference between posting the numbers and doing the mission. When you watch a skittle or rainbow/technicolor boat spend way too much time trying to kill a BOP then you know there is really something major wrong with the build. There is enough of a difference even in a well set up skittle boat to make it not worth a hoot. So why even bother with them. Let the noobes have their day with the skittles and rainbow/technicolor boom boats and the rest of us will go on doing all the killing.
Like I said and many others have said, we have all had our own rainbow/technicolor boats at one time or another. It took me one mission to see that it wasn't any good, it just takes others much much longer.
It's still fun to post about or experiances with them and watch them fumble around chasing a BOP all the way back to the Kang without making a dent in the shields. It's just not a lot of fun if we lose a mission because of them. But then too, there are a lot more ways to lose a mission than with a technicolor/rainbow boom boat.
No, there really isn't. The damage parse would come directly from an eSTF. If you'd like I'll post a video as well, although that might need to wait an extra day or two. 90% of skittle/rainbow boats DPS problems have little to do with their weapons selection.
A group of 5 people with +6k DPS might be a bit far and few between. I've done a number of STF's with excellent groups who could finish an STF in nothing flat. But the normal STF isn't all that great.
Just completed...
CSN
I pug in and say 'HI' as usual.
No responce.
I buzz over to the right and start on the nodes.
All four of the others head to the Kang.
I finish all the nodes, no help, and the Cube, no help.
I fly over to Kang and killing a couple Borg that the rest were strugling with.
I see one ship setting about 15K off in the distance.
Two of the others sport Rainbow/Technicolor beams and one is dead.
I fly to the Center and kill three of the nodes, still no help.
Boom, Kang dead.
I never noticed the optional fail. If I had I could have saved the Kang by going and doing what the Rainbow/Technicolor Boom Boats and the Farmer couldn't.
One side claims that, all other factors being in working order, skittles would not detract too much from damage/success.
The other side claims that no, skittles are ineffective and bad, because they almost always are an indication of the other problems present.
I think everybody generally agrees, here, but some are curious what the overall effect is of skittles vs non-skittles, if the ship is flown "correctly" other than that.
A pure energy boat works just fine. It's not optimal, but I'd wager I could post higher damage numbers in a pure energy skittle setup than about 98% of the folks your likely to come across in pug eSTFs do in their single energy boats. It's far more about skills, key binds, etc than it is your weapon layout,
I've seen more than enough experiances with skittle boats, no video needed, no numbers needed.
So you admit it's the pilot then, and not the weapons. Works for me.
Yes, from what I've seen skittle and rainbow setups are normally flown by unexperianced pilots with lousy setup. In the hands of an experianced pilot they might do fair, but I've never seen one and don't really expect to. I've seen hundreds of skittles and rainbows and cringe every time. I've also seen shuttles in STF's before they were banned, Farmers, Sabateurs, Directors, Cryers, Lost Souls, Noobes and much much more. I'll always cringe when I see a Skittle and nothing will change that. No numbers, no videos or anything else.
If you want to see what other people think of Skittles and Rainbows, read the whole forum.
I'm gonna drop this. This sig is for posting or experiances with STF's and fleet events.
Nuff said. Back to the bad STF's.
O, I was just summarising the argument, really. I didn't really see anybody disagreeing on that count, and I wouldn't ever go there myself. I was just pointing out that the argument wasn't really an argument, but confusion started by somebody wondering whether a good captain would be much hindered by mismatched weapon types.
So sufficed to say, skittle-boats are viable, even if not as effective as pure ships. It's mostly the player it would seem (I like to think I am a decent player, at least for PvE, I have no illusions to my scrubness at PvP), and since I am a 5/10 player, I made a skittle-boat work. I much prefer my full disruptor build however.
Anyways, sufficed to say, we won, and my team-mates were laughing at me once they realized I wasn't kidding XD.
So TL;DR =
Heretic was dumb enough to do a skittle-boat. And it worked. Wasn't as effective as a pure energy build, but can still work. So it comes down to purely player it would seem. Since I only lost 30% of my damage.
It may not be bad ship setups so much as general incompetence in play. I mean, I was chaining abilities together like a boss, like most experienced players do (you know, constant TT uptime, CRF combined with APB and APO, the usual). A lot of those skittle and rainbow boats don't do that. Tbh, the majority of ships like that, I often wonder if they even have BOffs equipped, I see so few abilities activating.
But the reason why most of these skittle/rainbow boats die is they don't use tac team. I hardly ever see CRF/CSV/anything resembling an attack pattern. And EPtX? What's that? That's what really makes them weak and sets them apart. Their either lack of usage of BOff abilities, or incompetent usage if they do.
Not only is it frustrating but it becomes harder and harder to find a random team that is able to get the job done..
Way back when the earth was young, (I'm well past my 1000 days) I tried the rainbow/technicolor thing. I'd just made admiral upper half. I didn't play constantly back then like I do now. My family has even gotten involved now which they weren't back then. WoW was what we were all doing and still do every now and then.
Anyhow I was having troubles with my build. I don't remember what ship I was flying but it was before the excelsior had come out. I read as much as I could on the ship builds from the forums but I still went boom often but really no more often than anyone else.
I do recall that I tried every type of weapon that I could, switching them back and forth until I settled for APs.
One day in a enemy signal contact I saw someone blasting away with rainbows. I didn't notice at that time if he was making a dent or not. I thought it looked cool and remembered the Borg in Star Trek and how the could adapt to the weapons. Rainbows suddenly made since.
I took out all but one AP front and rear and added one of each other weapons type until the slots were full. I filled the tactical slots with directed energy consoles and went looking for a fight.
I entered a Borg enemy signal contact and started shooting away.
Hmmmm. Something was wrong. The probes weren't dying as fast as they did before. It took several seconds longer. My numbers weren't in the thousand like they weren't before. I moused over the weapons and saw that the DPS was quite a bit lower than it was before. I have the exact figures in my STO notes but they are jumbled with something else so I'm thinking they are running about 30 to 100 DPS lower.
I continued the mission until everything was dead and waited for the next round. While waiting I put everything back the way it was before. All antiproton. The mission started and things went boom again and the DPS was back where it was before.
The mission ended and I reinstalled the rainbows the way they were the first go.
The mission started and down went the numbers.
Someone yelled in chat, "LOL Rainbows." There was another remark that came by also bit it had a lot of $j)/@ in it.
Anyhow, I tried a couple more times and the numbers were low enough to make me decide against using rainbows or skittles. Plus the remarks from others were not cool and I didn't want that kind of publicity.
Rainbows and skittles are banned within my fleet. If anyone is seen using them they will be kicked. It's a small fleet of mostly family members but they know better.
To this day, if I see a ship with rainbows I am going to say in chat, "LOL Rainbows" if I get the chance.
On another note, I recently helped one member set up a fleet boat with the polarized disruptor beams. Holy moly that ship has some DPS. :P
A rainbow/technicolor boat can still be a tank. They just sacrifice weapons power. :eek:
So far I haven't seen really terribad STFs, but that might be because for the time being I'm still in the process of getting my feet wet and running normal PUG STFs.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
I just finished a csn. We won but barely.
At the beginning I went to the Kang first which is something I never do. ALL 4 TEAM MATES FOLLOWED!
Nobody flew left, nobody flew right, nobody flew to the center. Nobody was taking out cubes or nodes.
I typed, Is anyone going to take on the cubes? Nobody said or did anything. I left the group and flew over to the right cube and started attacking.
I get down to the cube and someone starts yelling 10% 10% only take the cube to 10%.
I said, this is a NORMAL! He said even in normal your only to take it to 10%.
I typed LOL and killed it.
Now the guy is peaved. :mad: He starts calling me a noob and tells me I need to leave and telling me we were going to lose the match because I killed the cube.
I just flew over to the middle and started shooting.
I then typed, If your so good then get out here and help. You don't need 4 people at the Kang.
Nobody came in to help. This guy was saying how he's going to report me and blackball me. I just typed LOL. Someone else is typing LOL now and LMAOROF. They said, Go Gettum Nelly! I laughed.
I'm at the third cube now. Three of the other ships come out of hiding and start helping. The loudmouth was still setting at the Kang.
The third cube is quickly dispatched.
The guy at the Kang doesn't hail the Kang like he should so I flew in to do it with only a couple seconds to spare while the other three worked on the the warships.
The carrier emerges and I finally see, low and behold, the loudmouth has rainbows. PLUS he keeps pushing the carrier away from us. :eek: Suprise Suprise
The mission ends, I type We're going to lose huh??? But the guy leaves without a word before I send it. I was happy though, I pulled 5 of the borg nural processors.
You know what the funniest part about this post was (despite the blatant but probably deserving arrogance of the poster)? Even on CSE we don't do 10%. That's an antiquated and inefficient method of doing the map. The standard now is MRRMLL, and for the really high DPS teams you see on EliteSTF and some of us bored guys gone bawlzy on PublicEliteSTF do RML. 10%? Whuzzat?
I laughed... though this is kind of the point of this topic
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
Oh no, please, you are deserving of the arrogance, since your skill level was at that point. It was not meant to be sarcastic or insulting. XD
Glad to be of service
These days I feel really lucky if there is another player in a PuG at around my level, especially in KASE - it makes the things much easier.
Let's see how today's changes will affect the behaviour of the NPCs. As far as I understood the things changed, the overall damage of the NPCs remains the same, just the variation of the magnitude would be more constant.
I really hope, that they wouldn't nerf the SSR from +1k to +50 per 6 sec. as I speculated yesterday in the fleet chat. If that is the "works as intended" value (+50), I would feel severely screwedup in choosing it instead of the kinetic damage proc.
I have an inside source that said they would at most nerf SSR 20%. As for the NPCs, their overall damage has been reduced. By a lot. And the top cap has also been greatly reduced. Even though there will be fewer bottom duds, doesn't change the fact that a global 10% damage reduction, and a 20% plasma burn reduction are still significant.