You really do need to use the combat logs for an accurate picture, because of constantly changing ship lower levels and buffs it really does change the DPS/Damage numbers of each weapon dramatically.
You really do need to use the combat logs for an accurate picture, because of constantly changing ship lower levels and buffs it really does change the DPS/Damage numbers of each weapon dramatically.
^ Truth.
I watch my cannon damage unbuffed averages ~2k/shot on average. I hit all my buffs? Can top over 7k, more if I crit.
Now, granted it's possible to come up with a fairly accurate theoretical DPS # assuming everything is on equal footing (buffs affect both weps the same, same type etc). Otherwise load up what you're testing, start with a clear log, kill a bunch of the same enemy. copy/paste your log somewhere & analyze the #'s. swap items, do it again.
On that note, anyone write a parser for those combat logs? Would be great to have.
I recently went with this build on my Prometheus and it seems to work ok
I'm open to suggestions on this build
All weapons are Borg Mk Xii
Fore
2 x Antiproton Dual Beams
1 x Antiproton Beam
1 x Quantum Torp
Aft
2 x Antiproton Beams
1 x Quantum Torp
Full Maco Space Vet set
Consoles
18% Kinetic and Energy resist
35% Plasma and Tet Resist
35% Shield Cap
Borg Uni Console
4 x Antiproton Mags 26% each
Boffs
Cmd Tact Tact Team 1 THS 2 & 3 Attack Pattern Omega 3
Lt Tact FAW 1 and Tact Team 2
Ensign Tact Beam Over Load 1
Lt Engineer Engineer team 1 and Emergency Power to Shields 2
Lt Cmd Science Hazard Emitters 1 and Polarize Hull 2 and Transfer Sheild Strength 3 < thinking of changing this to Gravity Well 1
Reason i went all beams is Escorts are fairly fragile and with cannons you only have a 45 degree firing arc meaning to maximise your damage, one shield has to face the enemy therefore all damage you take is on that shield not practical with the Borgs ability to cut through shields, with beams you have the Escorts ability to turn but keep a minimum 90 degree firing arc open at all times meaning you can distrubute shield damage far better.
I find my Prommie lasts a hell of a lot longer with this build due to being able to turn and get a charged shield facing the enemy with only losing a Torp firing arc.
Hit THS 3 FAW 1 Attack Pattern Alpha and Omega 3 and the damage tallies up
Yea after 40 minutes...
1. Read the 1st post in this thread.
2. If you're not gonna use heavy cannons just get in a cruiser and be done with it.
3. The Defiant and Fleet Escort are just as "good" / worthless with full beams.
4. Use distribute shields+tactical team - running the escort for its turning ability to distribute shield damage is absurd.
Just try parsing the damage using that setup then swap to a heavy cannon setup and re-parse. http://sourceforge.net/projects/stocombat/
/combatlog 1 to start parsing /combatlog 0 to finish.
Sorry for being so blunt. I'm just sick of 35+ minute elite runs.
Works for me does more damage than a cruiser and i can turn. Win Win.
I'm happy not being carried in any space mission i'm playing so no problems with this setup
Rear:
2x antiproton turrets and 1x tricobalt device
Everything looks good but the Tricobalt in the reat. Add another turret.
DHCs & Turrets are the heart of Escort damage dealing.
A torp or similar in the rear is at best an attack of rare opportunity, it's used on Cruisers because enemies can often get behind them and stay there - Escorts have the maneuverability to deal with that.
I recently went with this build on my Prometheus and it seems to work ok
I'm open to suggestions on this build
All weapons are Borg Mk Xii
Fore
2 x Antiproton Dual Beams
1 x Antiproton Beam
1 x Quantum Torp
Aft
2 x Antiproton Beams
1 x Quantum Torp
Full Maco Space Vet set
Consoles
18% Kinetic and Energy resist
35% Plasma and Tet Resist
35% Shield Cap
Borg Uni Console
4 x Antiproton Mags 26% each
Boffs
Cmd Tact Tact Team 1 THS 2 & 3 Attack Pattern Omega 3
Lt Tact FAW 1 and Tact Team 2
Ensign Tact Beam Over Load 1
Lt Engineer Engineer team 1 and Emergency Power to Shields 2
Lt Cmd Science Hazard Emitters 1 and Polarize Hull 2 and Transfer Sheild Strength 3 < thinking of changing this to Gravity Well 1
Reason i went all beams is Escorts are fairly fragile and with cannons you only have a 45 degree firing arc meaning to maximise your damage, one shield has to face the enemy therefore all damage you take is on that shield not practical with the Borgs ability to cut through shields, with beams you have the Escorts ability to turn but keep a minimum 90 degree firing arc open at all times meaning you can distrubute shield damage far better.
I find my Prommie lasts a hell of a lot longer with this build due to being able to turn and get a charged shield facing the enemy with only losing a Torp firing arc.
You might be more maneuverable to keep yourself alive, but you will never out damage or come close to the damage output of a cannon/turret escort build.
So yes you will "last longer" in combat, but so will your enemies. And to be honest, I'm not seeing the added survivability.
The longer your enemies live, the more damage you will take and the longer you must be forced to survive it.
Why do I say this?
Your rear weapons do not favor your front weapon load out.
Your DBBs only have a 90 degree arc, which means they have a large blind spot if you're trying to broadside an enemy and at that point neither of your Torpedos can fire on target.
So circling around and broadsiding means you only have 3 beam arrays on target.
Works for me does more damage than a cruiser and i can turn. Win Win.
I'm happy not being carried in any space mission i'm playing so no problems with this setup
How do you know it does more damage than a Cruiser?
A good Beam focused Cruiser will have 6-8 Beam Arrays all targeting an enemy while broadsiding. Your build only has 3 Beam Arrays for this.
When you switch to forward facing to deal damage with your 2x DBBs and 1 Beam Array, any Escort with 3 x DHCs or DCs with 3 Rear Turrets will far, far outstrip your damage capabilities.
The simple fact is they will have 3 higher damage dealing weapons + 3 turrets on top of that - meaning just their Front weapons alone will be out damaging you, much less when the Turrets are added in.
This doesn't even take into account Cannon Scatter Volley & Rapid Fire - two dedicated DPS BOFF abilities that Beam weapons simply have no answer for.
I recently went with this build on my Prometheus and it seems to work ok
I'm open to suggestions on this build
All weapons are Borg Mk Xii
Fore
2 x Antiproton Dual Beams
1 x Antiproton Beam
1 x Quantum Torp
Aft
2 x Antiproton Beams
1 x Quantum Torp
Full Maco Space Vet set
Consoles
18% Kinetic and Energy resist
35% Plasma and Tet Resist
35% Shield Cap
Borg Uni Console
4 x Antiproton Mags 26% each
Boffs
Cmd Tact Tact Team 1 THS 2 & 3 Attack Pattern Omega 3
Lt Tact FAW 1 and Tact Team 2
Ensign Tact Beam Over Load 1
Lt Engineer Engineer team 1 and Emergency Power to Shields 2
Lt Cmd Science Hazard Emitters 1 and Polarize Hull 2 and Transfer Sheild Strength 3 < thinking of changing this to Gravity Well 1
I really doubt that this will outdamage an Excelsior or Odyssey/Bortas with Lt. Com tactical. Works doesn't automatically equal works well.
The problem with your build are not beams in general, since an escort can do well with them (Tactical, Advanced, Fleet, Raptor or Destroyer doesn't matter) but the arcs of your weapons. Front = only 2 DBB + 1 BA; Side = only 3 BA; Aft = only 2 BA. The point of escorts is, they are fast and maneuverable enough to keep the enemy in front of as much weapons as possible and you are splitting your firepower way too much. DHCs and Turrets provide the most damage with the most narrow arc. If you want to go beams, go either all single arrays and play like a cruiser (= broadsides) or dual beam banks front and turrets aft and play like a fast cruiser (Vorcha for example), but in this case DHCs would be the better choice.
Thanks for the opinions but i'm liking the setup, it def works for me. the aft may not match up with the fore, but it def feels like i have a cruiser in a quick turning escort. Yes the forward Alpha strike isn't as devastating without cannons
Maybe it is the turn rate that is deceiving me but it def feels that this setup is stronger than when i was running 3 x DHC and 2 turrets aft with a 1 quantum fore and aft thrown in which is what i run on a Defiant but i find the Prometheus and certainly the Akira/Thunderchild work well with beams.
I don;t usually use escorts due to the fact that they can punch but can't take one back. This setup seems to have balance.
Thanks for the opinions but i'm liking the setup, it def works for me. the aft may not match up with the fore, but it def feels like i have a cruiser in a quick turning escort. Yes the forward Alpha strike isn't as devastating without cannons
I have no problem with you playing a set up you enjoy, but do understand this thread is specifically for optimizing an Escort, which means for damage and the ability to survive long enough to deal damage.
That's why you'll see such strong opinions, this isn't really about general PvE builds.
Maybe it is the turn rate that is deceiving me but it def feels that this setup is stronger than when i was running 3 x DHC and 2 turrets aft with a 1 quantum fore and aft thrown in which is what i run on a Defiant but i find the Prometheus and certainly the Akira/Thunderchild work well with beams.
The Defiant has a better turn rate than both the Prometheus and the Akira.
I think you're being deceived by the notion that running all cannons + turrets means that you must sacrifice your mobility and turn rate.
You have a handful of options, like going in reverse and then back to forward to maintain a specific position.
Effectively the same as sitting still, just more annoying to manage.
Or you can actually fly at half impulse and park your nose on the target.
Which still takes me to the target, just without any maneuverability while being shot at. And, for stationary groups, i still have to turn around eventually, which renders the whole point moot.
OK, what's the final consensus on weapon type? I know the top 3 are phaser (I will NOT be using quads) for the system shutdown, disruptors for the hull debuff, and AP for the crit dmg. I can see tets helping to drop shields, but the borg go down fairly quickly in the STFs Ive ran, and I don't think polarons will do anything to the borg.
OK, what's the final consensus on weapon type? I know the top 3 are phaser (I will NOT be using quads) for the system shutdown, disruptors for the hull debuff, and AP for the crit dmg. I can see tets helping to drop shields, but the borg go down fairly quickly in the STFs Ive ran, and I don't think polarons will do anything to the borg.
Well now with the +polaron damage with the 2-piece Jem'hadar set that might make it worth trying Polarons (especially if you are lucky enough to have a Jemmie Bug... +2.5% chance at debuffing target!) and the Plasma-Disruptor Hybrid dual heavy cannons from Past Imperfect have really gaudy stats and are worth trying.
But in general, Phaser/Disruptor/AP are still tops.
Otherwise Im running the consoles suggested, and I just destroy everything. The DPS I burn through is just ridiculous, and thats also the reason I have DCs instead of DHCs on the front, its sacrificing that blunt damage for more DPS.
As an engineer running this build I am nigh untouchable in an STF, I like that I can basically slot into any role and do my job well, whether its protecting the kang, or crowd control on probes, or just flat out destroying something REALLY effing fast.
I thank you for the tips provided here.
EDIT
Just a note, I know this is supposed to be specialized for damage and "3 turrets is tops" and all, but with cannons the rotation never worked for me, it always seemed like something wasnt firing the way it was supposed to, I have found any more than 5 cannons/turrets and the rotation of weapons fire gets off and something ends up not firing at all in the end. Thats why I have a tric back there, plus MKXII DMGx3, it eats cubes as I fly on to my next target.
I just wanted to say thanks a lot for taking the time to write this excellent guide! I just started playing STO this week, and found the initial amount of things to learn overwhelming. I decided to temporarily halt my Science/Cruiser character, and make a new Tactical/Escort character using this guide for advice. Since then I have been dominating the Starbase 24 missions Ive been running, coming top in most of them, which has let me score some great gear.
I am currently in a heavy escort, and will move to a tactical escort when I hit Captain. I like the look of the fleet escort for the next tier after that, and saw that it was mentioned in your list of ships. Is the Fleet Escort superior to the Advanced Escort? Did you include it for people who have no intention of buying a C-store ship, or is it actually competitive with the Tactical Escort Retrofit/MVAE? I assume that the Vice-Admiral ships are superior?
Experamenting with it now. I went and bought 3 DC XI Borg AP's.
Ok, I ran half a dozen Normal STF's with 3 DC's and I'm really not seeing very much difference if any between 3 DC and 3 DHC. I also ran the Distress Call, Sh'mar and 3 Karrats. The only one I saw a big difference in was Sh'Mar where it took under 1.5 minutes to kill all the ships. That might have been just dumb luck.
I am currently in a heavy escort, and will move to a tactical escort when I hit Captain. I like the look of the fleet escort for the next tier after that, and saw that it was mentioned in your list of ships. Is the Fleet Escort superior to the Advanced Escort? Did you include it for people who have no intention of buying a C-store ship, or is it actually competitive with the Tactical Escort Retrofit/MVAE? I assume that the Vice-Admiral ships are superior?
The Fleet Escort is competitive.
I prefer it compared directly to the basic Advanced Escort, specifically the BOFF & console layout.
The MVAE is a great ship with interesting capabilities, but you don't need it to be competitive on STFs.
Comments
^ Truth.
I watch my cannon damage unbuffed averages ~2k/shot on average. I hit all my buffs? Can top over 7k, more if I crit.
Now, granted it's possible to come up with a fairly accurate theoretical DPS # assuming everything is on equal footing (buffs affect both weps the same, same type etc). Otherwise load up what you're testing, start with a clear log, kill a bunch of the same enemy. copy/paste your log somewhere & analyze the #'s. swap items, do it again.
On that note, anyone write a parser for those combat logs? Would be great to have.
3x dual heavy antiproton + one quantum
Rear:
2x antiproton turrets and 1x tricobalt device
All the borg modified equipment
Wondering if this setup is any good and also what consoles go well with this setup?
I'm open to suggestions on this build
All weapons are Borg Mk Xii
Fore
2 x Antiproton Dual Beams
1 x Antiproton Beam
1 x Quantum Torp
Aft
2 x Antiproton Beams
1 x Quantum Torp
Full Maco Space Vet set
Consoles
18% Kinetic and Energy resist
35% Plasma and Tet Resist
35% Shield Cap
Borg Uni Console
4 x Antiproton Mags 26% each
Boffs
Cmd Tact Tact Team 1 THS 2 & 3 Attack Pattern Omega 3
Lt Tact FAW 1 and Tact Team 2
Ensign Tact Beam Over Load 1
Lt Engineer Engineer team 1 and Emergency Power to Shields 2
Lt Cmd Science Hazard Emitters 1 and Polarize Hull 2 and Transfer Sheild Strength 3 < thinking of changing this to Gravity Well 1
Reason i went all beams is Escorts are fairly fragile and with cannons you only have a 45 degree firing arc meaning to maximise your damage, one shield has to face the enemy therefore all damage you take is on that shield not practical with the Borgs ability to cut through shields, with beams you have the Escorts ability to turn but keep a minimum 90 degree firing arc open at all times meaning you can distrubute shield damage far better.
I find my Prommie lasts a hell of a lot longer with this build due to being able to turn and get a charged shield facing the enemy with only losing a Torp firing arc.
Actually this setup works very well on this ship the same with the Akira/Thunderchild. These ships are cruiser escort hybrids
Bascially i have a cruiser build with the speed and manoverbility of a escort and i do pretty well in Elite STF with this build.
Hit THS 3 FAW 1 Attack Pattern Alpha and Omega 3 and the damage tallies up
The only ships that don't work well with beams are the Defiant and Fleet Escort
1. Read the 1st post in this thread.
2. If you're not gonna use heavy cannons just get in a cruiser and be done with it.
3. The Defiant and Fleet Escort are just as "good" / worthless with full beams.
4. Use distribute shields+tactical team - running the escort for its turning ability to distribute shield damage is absurd.
Just try parsing the damage using that setup then swap to a heavy cannon setup and re-parse.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/stocombat/
/combatlog 1 to start parsing /combatlog 0 to finish.
Sorry for being so blunt. I'm just sick of 35+ minute elite runs.
4x DHC's + 3x Turrets is amazing with 2x rapid fires at close range
I'm happy not being carried in any space mission i'm playing so no problems with this setup
Everything looks good but the Tricobalt in the reat. Add another turret.
DHCs & Turrets are the heart of Escort damage dealing.
A torp or similar in the rear is at best an attack of rare opportunity, it's used on Cruisers because enemies can often get behind them and stay there - Escorts have the maneuverability to deal with that.
You might be more maneuverable to keep yourself alive, but you will never out damage or come close to the damage output of a cannon/turret escort build.
So yes you will "last longer" in combat, but so will your enemies. And to be honest, I'm not seeing the added survivability.
The longer your enemies live, the more damage you will take and the longer you must be forced to survive it.
Why do I say this?
Your rear weapons do not favor your front weapon load out.
Your DBBs only have a 90 degree arc, which means they have a large blind spot if you're trying to broadside an enemy and at that point neither of your Torpedos can fire on target.
So circling around and broadsiding means you only have 3 beam arrays on target.
There is nothing about the Prometheus that makes it a "Cruiser escort hybrid".
1) Ok, how much damage? Can you post a number?
2) Your second point does not make sense.
How do you know it does more damage than a Cruiser?
A good Beam focused Cruiser will have 6-8 Beam Arrays all targeting an enemy while broadsiding. Your build only has 3 Beam Arrays for this.
When you switch to forward facing to deal damage with your 2x DBBs and 1 Beam Array, any Escort with 3 x DHCs or DCs with 3 Rear Turrets will far, far outstrip your damage capabilities.
The simple fact is they will have 3 higher damage dealing weapons + 3 turrets on top of that - meaning just their Front weapons alone will be out damaging you, much less when the Turrets are added in.
This doesn't even take into account Cannon Scatter Volley & Rapid Fire - two dedicated DPS BOFF abilities that Beam weapons simply have no answer for.
I really doubt that this will outdamage an Excelsior or Odyssey/Bortas with Lt. Com tactical. Works doesn't automatically equal works well.
The problem with your build are not beams in general, since an escort can do well with them (Tactical, Advanced, Fleet, Raptor or Destroyer doesn't matter) but the arcs of your weapons. Front = only 2 DBB + 1 BA; Side = only 3 BA; Aft = only 2 BA. The point of escorts is, they are fast and maneuverable enough to keep the enemy in front of as much weapons as possible and you are splitting your firepower way too much. DHCs and Turrets provide the most damage with the most narrow arc. If you want to go beams, go either all single arrays and play like a cruiser (= broadsides) or dual beam banks front and turrets aft and play like a fast cruiser (Vorcha for example), but in this case DHCs would be the better choice.
Maybe it is the turn rate that is deceiving me but it def feels that this setup is stronger than when i was running 3 x DHC and 2 turrets aft with a 1 quantum fore and aft thrown in which is what i run on a Defiant but i find the Prometheus and certainly the Akira/Thunderchild work well with beams.
I don;t usually use escorts due to the fact that they can punch but can't take one back. This setup seems to have balance.
I have no problem with you playing a set up you enjoy, but do understand this thread is specifically for optimizing an Escort, which means for damage and the ability to survive long enough to deal damage.
That's why you'll see such strong opinions, this isn't really about general PvE builds.
The Defiant has a better turn rate than both the Prometheus and the Akira.
I think you're being deceived by the notion that running all cannons + turrets means that you must sacrifice your mobility and turn rate.
You think like a Cruiser captain, which means you probably fly an Escort like a Cruiser, which is completely wrong.
The thing that kills me is the idea of bringing my escort to a stop so I can keep all-forward against my target. :eek:
You never need come to a full stop.
You have a handful of options, like going in reverse and then back to forward to maintain a specific position.
Or you can actually fly at half impulse and park your nose on the target.
I use one or the other depending on the situation.
Effectively the same as sitting still, just more annoying to manage.
Which still takes me to the target, just without any maneuverability while being shot at. And, for stationary groups, i still have to turn around eventually, which renders the whole point moot.
But in general, Phaser/Disruptor/AP are still tops.
The modifications I made were to fit my playstyle a little better though.
Quads-DC>DMGx3(MKXI)-DC>DMGx3(MKXI)-QTorp(MKXI*ACC/DMGx2)--All Phasers
MACO Deflector
MACO Engines
MACO Shields
Turret(STF Store)Tricobalt(MKXII*DMGx3)Turret(STF Store)--Phasers Again
Otherwise Im running the consoles suggested, and I just destroy everything. The DPS I burn through is just ridiculous, and thats also the reason I have DCs instead of DHCs on the front, its sacrificing that blunt damage for more DPS.
As an engineer running this build I am nigh untouchable in an STF, I like that I can basically slot into any role and do my job well, whether its protecting the kang, or crowd control on probes, or just flat out destroying something REALLY effing fast.
I thank you for the tips provided here.
EDIT
Just a note, I know this is supposed to be specialized for damage and "3 turrets is tops" and all, but with cannons the rotation never worked for me, it always seemed like something wasnt firing the way it was supposed to, I have found any more than 5 cannons/turrets and the rotation of weapons fire gets off and something ends up not firing at all in the end. Thats why I have a tric back there, plus MKXII DMGx3, it eats cubes as I fly on to my next target.
Well, given that the PD-DHCs give the disruptor (and plasma) proc and count as disruptors as far as consoles go
No.
Sitting still incurs a negative defense penalty.
Uhh Hu... If you don't know how to fly it, then don't knock it.
I'm just wondering if anyone else has tested this?
DCs with [Borg] are superior to DHCs in STFs. They fire more shots per cycle and therefore give you some additional 1.000 damage procs.
Experamenting with it now. I went and bought 3 DC XI Borg AP's.
I am currently in a heavy escort, and will move to a tactical escort when I hit Captain. I like the look of the fleet escort for the next tier after that, and saw that it was mentioned in your list of ships. Is the Fleet Escort superior to the Advanced Escort? Did you include it for people who have no intention of buying a C-store ship, or is it actually competitive with the Tactical Escort Retrofit/MVAE? I assume that the Vice-Admiral ships are superior?
Ok, I ran half a dozen Normal STF's with 3 DC's and I'm really not seeing very much difference if any between 3 DC and 3 DHC. I also ran the Distress Call, Sh'mar and 3 Karrats. The only one I saw a big difference in was Sh'Mar where it took under 1.5 minutes to kill all the ships. That might have been just dumb luck.
I'll play a few more and see what happens.
The Fleet Escort is competitive.
I prefer it compared directly to the basic Advanced Escort, specifically the BOFF & console layout.
The MVAE is a great ship with interesting capabilities, but you don't need it to be competitive on STFs.