Returning player here and a little out of the loop.
I am going to invest in a C store ship and intend to return to my Esort roots for end game and PvP my main is an engineer at level 43 so will soon be running STF and wish to be useful. Reading thru this awesome thread has been inspiring and helpful yet in equal measure i am a tad confused, my questions are:
I intend to buy a premium escort so its either the defiant-r or the MVAC.
1) I see more using the defiant-r on this thread, with the recent console changes would reliant-r captains change ship if they could? Clearly there must be a reason why this ship is more popular i am wondering why?
2) The advantage of the MVAC is the science BOFF and gravity well ...... (I noticed Tykens mentioned as well i have a Vulcan BOFF that does both) But its very hard to see any info on how useful the MVAC aspect is and is non existen in this thread, would i be gimping myself and the team by seperating the ships sections?
So i need advice, i will soon be buying one of these ships for end game content notably STF's and PvP what would you do with 5000 C store points?
I do slightly lean towards the MVAC but thats purely for cosmetic reasons as i am a sucker for gadgets and pets, and i am not fussed about cloacking i have a klink for that kind of caper. If there are situations where using the MVAC ( or when you definitely shouldnt) then could you please explain and add it to the guide for us noobs
So guys arguments for an against the MVAC? i will hit 50 soon and need to decide in the next day or two.
Be carefull with gadgets and pets. Some of them are just that, gadgets and pets, which have no useful purpose. I myself have one of those little brown cubs which I call a cat/dog. It follows me everywhere I go on the ground but serves no useful purpose. I also have a several ship that I've purchaced that are now being used for parts storage.
Most of the time you are just spending Cryptic Points on stuff which is completely useless. You may have to buy a useless ship to get a console what appeals to your liking. You may want to buy a bridge officer which has some ability that you think you need.
Research these things to death before you spend the points. Some of them you can find discarded on the exchange. Some items, start out stong but end up getting a nerf later in the game which renders them useless.
1) I see more using the defiant-r on this thread, with the recent console changes would reliant-r captains change ship if they could? Clearly there must be a reason why this ship is more popular i am wondering why?
The Defiant has cloak, which is awesome for PVP, along with the fastest turn rate of all the Escorts and well... Its a Defiant
1) I see more using the defiant-r on this thread, with the recent console changes would reliant-r captains change ship if they could? Clearly there must be a reason why this ship is more popular i am wondering why?
Plus, the Defiant-R used to be free before F2P, so a lot of players have it. And it is still free for 600-day veteran reward. MVAE has always been C-store.
Currently I run 3x Mk XI blue phaser dual cannons. I intend to buy 3x Mk XII purple STF weapons. Is it universally better to go with DHCs vs. DCs? So I should get 3x MK XII Phaser DHCs?
I already have the Photon Torpedo Launcher Mk XII (STF purple) in the front. I also have the same except Quantum torpedoes. I ended up going for photons since they have higher DPS. Because so many Borg targets are "big and durable", I don't bother with timing myphoton attacks. I have it set to autofire, and spam the TorpSpread skill as often as I am allowed. I devoted one of my tac console slots to the photon prefire chamber. Is it worth keeping that, or should I exchange it for a 4th Mk X purple phaser relay?
Also, currently in the rear slots I use 3x Phaser Turret Mk XI (STF purple). Is it worth upgrading those to Mk XII? The minimal damage increase tells me, not particularly.
I have run many, many elite STFs with my current ship. I really like it's setup, it seems effective and is very easy to drive (2 complimentary sets of 4 BOFF powers that go every 15 secs). Honestly I don't really find it lacking in any way. Is it even worth upgrading my fore weaps to Mk XII?
With all the debate about a beam boat I decided to pull out my quantum torpedo launcher and build a cannon boat. I obviously needed to tweak my BOFFs, so I threw in APB- also inspired by this thread.
Defiant R
3 AP Dual Heavy Cannons MkXI
1 AP Dual Heavy Cannon MkXI [Borg]
3 AP Turrets MkXI
Borg Deflector
Borg Engine
MACO Shield
Eng Consoles- Field Generator, Neutronium Alloy, Shield Emmitter
Sci Consoles- Borg, Biofunction Monitor
Tac Consoles- 4 Mag Regulators
I got the MACO Engine Mk XI tonight so I'm planning on having the 2-piece bonus for MACO and Borg until I get the MACO deflector. Would anyone suggest otherwise?
I was using all crafted weapons but I've been slooowly replacing them with the [Borg] weapons from the STF vendors. Is anybody running with a full set of [Borg] weapons now? Are they any better than the crafted purples? I don't have enough of them to tell yet.
I don't have any hard numbers, but I seem to be doing much more damage. My concern is that I'm not using my BOFFs very efficiently. With this setup I am constantly using CSVII w/APB. It seems to work very well, but it means APO is hardly available. I've been using PH2 to get out of dodge when I need to break a tractor beam. My shields seems to stay up fairly well with two TT1 and distribute shield. The MACO shield seems to work way better than the borg shield did.
So with this build I do more damage, stay alive longer and die less. But I'm waisting a Cmdr Tac slot, an Ens Eng slot, and an Ens Sci slot. Any ideas on how I can improve this?
What do guys think? How should I switch around my BOFFs?
Seems like you're the only one that did an all cannon build Tactical Escort Retrofit, which is what I'm going for.
Did you ever figure out what to do with your Tactical officers? It feels like a waste, since the only ability I can use is the Tactical Team ability.
I've been contemplating doing an all beam ship, since I could use more abilities (target shields, for instance). But, also I would be able to maintain DPS, and keep my throttle up to increase defense.
I still love the all cannon build, and I would have wasted the MK XII Borg cannons I already redeemed. But, since I like having a tighter turn radius, perhaps it would be a better build if I just flew circles around my target and broadside them with 7 beam arrays.
However unless there was some ninja patch I'm totally unaware of cannon scatter volley does a lot less damage single target or otherwise than rapid fire.
In normal mode "non elite" you might be able to get away with using scatter volley.
But in elite where single target focus fire is key scatter volley is pretty much worthless.
You'll just end up getting agro from loads of npc's while doing very little damage to them. And getting loads of agro in an escort from elites is not a good idea lol...
Not to mention most of the people I see using scatter volley are using it from 8km - 9km away. Which basically turns your dual heavy cannon damage into not much more than turret damage.
Unless something changed these were the +damage percentages I remember.
Rapid fire 1 = +30% damage
Rapid fire 2 = +40% damage
Rapid fire 3 = +50% damage
As I said I agree with almost everything else, but imo @ elite -> ditch scatter volley - get 2 rapid fire's and stay close to the target, 2km - 3.5km if possible.
Anyway, that's just my take on it. I tried scatter volley several times and was never impressed.
I suppose if you had a pre-made team of all tactical captains, all using dhc's and all with scatter volley it would work better. But in pugs imo its pretty meh.
I think the arguement for scatter volley is that 125% damage to more than 1 target is a lot more DPS than 150% damage to one target. While it's true that it'll be slower on just one target, are large portion of STFs is crowd control. Be it probes at the gate, protecting Kang/taking down nanite generators below the cubes, or cleaning up nanite spheres after taking down a transformer, AOE damage comes out higher for overall DPS.
The Defiant has cloak, which is awesome for PVP, along with the fastest turn rate of all the Escorts and well... Its a Defiant
Except when the Multi-Vector is in Multi-Vector mode. I run circles around the Defiant with it.
To answer the question about the Multi-Vector, no, you would not gimp the team in normal mode with MV Mode. I use it all the time against multiple ships, and it works well. But I never use it against cubes. And I am just beginning Elite, so I cannot offer you any advice on that.
I think the arguement for scatter volley is that 125% damage to more than 1 target is a lot more DPS than 150% damage to one target. While it's true that it'll be slower on just one target, are large portion of STFs is crowd control. Be it probes at the gate, protecting Kang/taking down nanite generators below the cubes, or cleaning up nanite spheres after taking down a transformer, AOE damage comes out higher for overall DPS.
It may come out to higher dps when there's multiple targets, but in elite mode its not helpful dps - overall dps means nothing.
Its like shooting a tank in pvp for 15 minutes. Sure your endgame damage numbers are massive but you didn't do anything helpful.
In pugs@elite when on a good day you get 1 or 2 people with decent dps builds scatter volley is just not helpful. Especially considering the only real priority targets all happen to be single targets and have loads of hp.
Frankly this stuff is mmo 101. Would you aoe a boss to death??? :rolleyes:
Not to mention getting bigger hits = bigger crits, so anyone using dhc's with +crit severity 'antiproton' will see some massive numbers
Only about 10-20% of any of the STF's is spent firing at a single target. Using non-AOE skills only in STF's will only make them last nonger.
In fact, in regards to the Tac Cubes, I did a run with my fleet last night and had 3 escorts focus firing on one shield facing of the tac cube and it died as fast as I've ever seen it go down, and all of us were using Scatter volley.
Of course, you can also choose to run 1x Scatter volley AND 1x rapid fire if you wish. Using the tac officer skill that increases BO recharge times for 60 seconds will let you re-use one of those continuously for awhile unabated, so thats something to think about too.
In fact, in regards to the Tac Cubes, I did a run with my fleet last night and had 3 escorts focus firing on one shield facing of the tac cube and it died as fast as I've ever seen it go down, and all of us were using Scatter volley.
I suppose if you had a pre-made team of all tactical captains, all using dhc's and all with scatter volley it would work better. But in pugs imo its pretty meh.
Fleet pre-made's vs pugs are completely different. I would love to get into a pug with 3 solid tactical dps'ers. But frankly I'm lucky to see 3 people join the group with decent builds+the brains to use them in 1 out of 10 pugs...
Maybe its the time of day I usually play but some of the builds I see in elite stf's pugs just shouldn't be there.
Be it probes at the gate, protecting Kang/taking down nanite generators below the cubes, or cleaning up nanite spheres after taking down a transformer, AOE damage comes out higher for overall DPS.
The probes at the gate are easy mode with almost any build. Hell I've seen cruisers just pull up and park broadside to the probes travel path and do a fine job of it.
Protecting the Kang is easy as well until the raptors ect come along. - most good dps'ers can do all 3 side's of the kang solo. - again until the raptors and friends come along...
Taking the nanite generators down to 10% in elite is a bad example.
Even if you're 1km away from the closest generator the second generator is what 8km-9km away??? Which means the damage you're doing to the 2nd generator is extremely minimal. So essentially you're just killing the close generator 25% slower with scatter volley 3 than rapid fire 3.
Usually I have my generator @ 10% then have to go help with the others. And often the others I have to help are using scatter volley.
If you're rolling pre-mades generally you have good coordination/communication, decent builds and focus fire then sure I can see SV working well. But currently when doing elite pugs getting good dps'ers is pretty much a TRIBBLE shoot. Most of my time is spent helping others kill targets they've been pounding on for way toooo long.
I still think this thread is full of win. It's definitely helping more than its hurting. Props for it.
Yes, but in MVAM mode you loose survivability. So its not so great for STF's.
This is true to an extent, which is why I don't use MV Mode a whole lot in STFs. Only when I am in Khitomer Space, and even then, only against the probes/spheres. I do very well in that regard.
I run a Multi-Vector, so I have 7 Tac BOFF Power slots. Here are my 7 powers:
Torpedo Spread 1, Torpedo Spread 2, Tactical Team 1, Tactical Team 1, Cannon: Scatter Volley 2, Cannon: Scatter Volley 3, Cannon: Rapid Fire 3.
Using these powers, and the appropriate damage consoles, etc, I can tear through anything in normal STFs, and I do considerable damage in Elite mode. I tend to die in Elite mode more often, as whatever I decide to shoot usually decides to target me back (Over the others), but I get around, and I am trying to figure out a way to make myself more durable.
on elite STFs spheres and cubes tear me apart. I mean they look at me the wrong way and I'm at half hull.
3x Antiproton Heavy Cannons (but I might throw in a AP Dual Beam Bank if recommended), 1x Quantum torp
3x AP Turrets
MACO Shield XI
Retro borg deflector and engine
EPS Flow X, Neutronium XI
Borg Console, MVA console, Biofunction X
AP Mag X (3), Zero point X
(for some reason, the XI tac consoles don't offer any % damage boost over X. Glitch or intended?)
CMDR tac - Tac team 1, Scatter 1, HY 3, Rapid fire 3
Lt tac - Tac team 1, Rapid Fire 1
ensign tac - Spread 1
engineer - EPtS 1, Auxillary to Dampeners 1
science - Transfer Shield 1, Hazard 2, Gravity Well
Also saving up C creds from the exchange for a respec, what's good skills to 9, and what else is good to have but NOT at 9 and how far should I go? Anyone got a good build setup?
on elite STFs spheres and cubes tear me apart. I mean they look at me the wrong way and I'm at half hull.
3x Antiproton Heavy Cannons (but I might throw in a AP Dual Beam Bank if recommended), 1x Quantum torp
3x AP Turrets
MACO Shield XI
Retro borg deflector and engine
EPS Flow X, Neutronium XI
Borg Console, MVA console, Biofunction X
AP Mag X (3), Zero point X
(for some reason, the XI tac consoles don't offer any % damage boost over X. Glitch or intended?)
CMDR tac - Tac team 1, Scatter 1, HY 3, Rapid fire 3
Lt tac - Tac team 1, Rapid Fire 1
ensign tac - Spread 1
engineer - EPtS 1, Auxillary to Dampeners 1
science - Transfer Shield 1, Hazard 2, Gravity Well
Also saving up C creds from the exchange for a respec, what's good skills to 9, and what else is good to have but NOT at 9 and how far should I go? Anyone got a good build setup?
One thing to remember about the STF Sets (Maco, Omega) is that a full set offers you some serious bonuses. I wouldn't recommend running Elite at all until you complete at least one set. Even with a full MACO set, the Borg on Elite run me through if I don't have heavy heals from a teammate. Biggest thing to remember about running an escort is that your best defense is to kill something before I can hit you too hard, or too many times.
The spheres I have very little trouble with going 1v1. Multiple spheres rip me apart. Remember to initiate MV Mode against spheres, but use sparingly (IMO) against any cubes.
As for the Console %s, a blue X offers the same as a green XI, so just upgrade to a blue or purple XI if you want the best available without completing a ton of Elite STFs.
on elite STFs spheres and cubes tear me apart. I mean they look at me the wrong way and I'm at half hull.
engineer - EPtS 1, Auxillary to Dampeners 1
Borg Console, MVA console, Biofunction X
My only suggestion is to swap the biofunction for a Field Generator and run reverse shield polarity or another emergancy power to shields instead of the auxillary to dampeners.
Also, get a MACO MK XI shield ASAP, it will help you survive those spheres/cubes.
I've been testing out different powers for the MVAE LtCom Sci slot. I think Repulsors work much better than Gravity Well. If you blow the generators in Infected, you can push the spheres far enough away to give your team enough time to blow the transformer. In Cure, you can push back the Raptors and Neg'var if necessary. Same deal for Khitomer Accords. It's not as precise, but with some good flying, you're good.
@Vizmu
I run a Multi-Vector, so I have 7 Tac BOFF Power slots. Here are my 7 powers:
Torpedo Spread 1, Torpedo Spread 2, Tactical Team 1, Tactical Team 1, Cannon: Scatter Volley 2, Cannon: Scatter Volley 3, Cannon: Rapid Fire 3.
Using these powers, and the appropriate damage consoles, etc, I can tear through anything in normal STFs, and I do considerable damage in Elite mode. I tend to die in Elite mode more often, as whatever I decide to shoot usually decides to target me back (Over the others), but I get around, and I am trying to figure out a way to make myself more durable.
You're prolly as durable as you can get. As you said in your reply to platewearingbird, kill it before it kills you.
If you're already well geared and correctly skilled then killing it fast and not getting all the agro is the only thing left to do.
I usually run in a bop with all universal slots. This isn't my normal setup but even when running 2 x epts 3, 1 aux to sif 3, 2x engy team and rsp + 125 weaps, 121 shields when I get agro from multiple mobs in elite there's only so long I can last.
At this point I only run elites stf's. But I have the same agro issue. Its one of the reasons I ditched scatter volley @ elite mode. When you hit like a truck the borg get pretty ****ed at you lol.
In a normal mmo we would have a tank to get and hold the agro. Unfortunately tanks in this game don't do enough damage. Even when skilled into threat they can't get and hold the agro once a good tactical opens up.
Slightly OT:
It would be really nice if there was a semi pre-made queue. Like a queue you could join that only allowed x number of each ship type.
Or something where a player could make a game and others were allowed to queue for it. But the person that made it could inspect the players ships/builds in queue before accepting them.
The last elite pug I joined I saw 3 engy's and 1 sci. After seeing 2 of them zoom outta the spawn and each auto fire torps @ shields I left it. I would rather take the "leaver" penalty "which is absurd I might add" than sit in there for an hour watching them fly in circles blasting with unbuffed beams and tossing torps at shields lol...
One thing to remember about the STF Sets (Maco, Omega) is that a full set offers you some serious bonuses. I wouldn't recommend running Elite at all until you complete at least one set. Even with a full MACO set, the Borg on Elite run me through if I don't have heavy heals from a teammate. Biggest thing to remember about running an escort is that your best defense is to kill something before I can hit you too hard, or too many times.
That's mainly because the MACO/Omega sets don't actually offer any tanking set bonuses at all Setwise, the MACO offers a bit better base power, drain resistance and a tractorbeam, the Omega offers a bit of tetryon damage and a turn stopper, while it's the Borg set that offers the chance at shield/hull regen and resists with 3/4 parts. That's why the OP suggests the MACO Shield with the Borg Console, Deflector, and Engines.
I'll be returning to STO after about a year and a half absence this week, and this thread has been immensely helpful in figuring out what I'm going to need to do when I get back in since my main is (and always was) a Tac/Escort VA. That said, I did have a couple of comments/questions...
1. Is it better to run a rank 3 APO/APB in the Cmdr Tax slot, or a rank 3 weapon ability like CSV or TS? I'm fairly sure that I'll have ready access to most of those, but it sounds like Exchange prices are crazy, and I'd like to make an informed choice. I know that there was some discussion of this upthread, but it didn't seem like a firm consensus was reached.
2. While the thread has been a huge help, it's also lacking one thing that the Dragon Flagship cruiser thread has, and the one thing that I think would be most helpful for a returning player to comprehend the changes to the game: sample Captain skill builds for each of the ship builds. I'm not looking to have a cookie-cutter build handed to me, but a starting point to think about the changes in a practical way would be nice.
3. This is of less concern, but I'll probably be flying an MVAE/Advanced once I've gotten myself caught up on gear and BOffs enough to do anything serious, and I was pondering whether it's possible to cram the beam boat build into one, and whether it's possible/worthwhile to add a torpedo to the beam boat.
Thanks for a fantastic thread, and thanks in advance for the help on my questions!
I'll try going full MACO while keeping my borg pieces and maybe swap out my Scatter Volley for a Beam overload and my Spread 1 for a Target shields 1 (so I don't have to rely on splitting as much) with a DBB.
I don't know why people swear by the AoE attacks for elites, they don't hit any much harder then their single-target companions, and they're huge aggro magnets.
I took a look at Takticer's build in the engine and came up with this for my respec
Max:
Tac - Patterns, Weapon training, Energy, Projectile, Targeting
Eng - Electro-Plasma, Hull Repair, Efficiency, Potential, Shield Performance
Sci - Emitters and Systems
6:
Tac - Both Specialization
Eng - Battery, Armor reinforce, Integrity, Hull plating, engine and weapon performance
3: Flow Capacitor (for beam target shield), Particle Generator (for grav well), and Sensors (fire on my mark)
New Boff:
Tac Team 1 (x2), High yield torpedo 2, HYT 3, BO 2, Rapid Fire 3, Target shield 1
Emergency to shield 1, Reverse Polarity 1
Transfer 1, Emitters 2, Gravity well 1
using x2 Heavy cannon, DBB, and Quantum + 3 Turret
You might want to skip Graviton Generator- it currently increases the effect of GW at .01 - they're going to make it increase the radius of the Well, but it still won't have much impact on GW.
You might want to skip Graviton Generator- it currently increases the effect of GW at .01 - they're going to make it increase the radius of the Well, but it still won't have much impact on GW.
1. Is it better to run a rank 3 APO/APB in the Cmdr Tax slot, or a rank 3 weapon ability like CSV or TS? I'm fairly sure that I'll have ready access to most of those, but it sounds like Exchange prices are crazy, and I'd like to make an informed choice. I know that there was some discussion of this upthread, but it didn't seem like a firm consensus was reached.
2. While the thread has been a huge help, it's also lacking one thing that the Dragon Flagship cruiser thread has, and the one thing that I think would be most helpful for a returning player to comprehend the changes to the game: sample Captain skill builds for each of the ship builds. I'm not looking to have a cookie-cutter build handed to me, but a starting point to think about the changes in a practical way would be nice.
3. This is of less concern, but I'll probably be flying an MVAE/Advanced once I've gotten myself caught up on gear and BOffs enough to do anything serious, and I was pondering whether it's possible to cram the beam boat build into one, and whether it's possible/worthwhile to add a torpedo to the beam boat.
1) Yes, its better to run a commander level Attack Pattern than a Scatter Volley/Rapid fire. APB3 for example, is -50% resist to target, which applies to everyone shooting at it, so its a big help. And APO3 gives some really good stats too.
The exception is if you are using an escort with a Officer who doesn't have any skill points into Attack Patterns (like say a Sci or Eng who usually files Cruisers/Sci ships) then its a better idea to use a Commander level Scatter Volley 3.
2) I listed a build at one point in this thread, the build I'm still using, but there are still some issues with what skills do what and which ones actually work, so its hard for me to personally say "Use this Skill build" with any certainty. Theres a good thread in the Skill forum that lists what skills do what to help you decide how to allocate your points.
3) Yes, you can do a Beam Boat with a MVAM/Advanced. Thats actually a build I've been using for PVP/Kerrat, which allows me to combine it with Feedback Pulse.
Using a torpedo with the beam boat is pointless, as you are trying to broadside as much as possible with that setup.
Thanks for the reply, Kostamojen. Really appreciate all the help that you're being for the Escort community and myseld in particular. I might have to get in touch with you in-game once I can get back in and am able to see what I have at my disposal, if you're open to that.
I'll look back and bookmark the individual post with your skill build, too - thanks again!
The exception is if you are using an escort with a Officer who doesn't have any skill points into Attack Patterns (like say a Sci or Eng who usually files Cruisers/Sci ships) then its a better idea to use a Commander level Scatter Volley 3..
Nah, I am Science in an Escort and I have APB3. Just ask a Tactical Fleetmate to train up one of your BO's,
Same goes for ANY Commander skill. Just ask a Fleetmate to train it up for you.
Take all the gear off your BO, find Tactical Player in your fleet, trade BO, wait a minute, trade back, done and done.
Nah, I am Science in an Escort and I have APB3. Just ask a Tactical Fleetmate to train up one of your BO's,
Same goes for ANY Commander skill. Just ask a Fleetmate to train it up for you.
Take all the gear off your BO, find Tactical Player in your fleet, trade BO, wait a minute, trade back, done and done.
I was more concerned about folks who might be Sci or Eng captains and don't actually have ANY skill points into attack patterns. Neither of my Eng/Sci captains do, so when I fly escorts with them I use Scatter Volley 3 instead of an attack pattern.
I was more concerned about folks who might be Sci or Eng captains and don't actually have ANY skill points into attack patterns. Neither of my Eng/Sci captains do, so when I fly escorts with them I use Scatter Volley 3 instead of an attack pattern.
Comments
I am going to invest in a C store ship and intend to return to my Esort roots for end game and PvP my main is an engineer at level 43 so will soon be running STF and wish to be useful. Reading thru this awesome thread has been inspiring and helpful yet in equal measure i am a tad confused, my questions are:
I intend to buy a premium escort so its either the defiant-r or the MVAC.
1) I see more using the defiant-r on this thread, with the recent console changes would reliant-r captains change ship if they could? Clearly there must be a reason why this ship is more popular i am wondering why?
2) The advantage of the MVAC is the science BOFF and gravity well ...... (I noticed Tykens mentioned as well i have a Vulcan BOFF that does both) But its very hard to see any info on how useful the MVAC aspect is and is non existen in this thread, would i be gimping myself and the team by seperating the ships sections?
So i need advice, i will soon be buying one of these ships for end game content notably STF's and PvP what would you do with 5000 C store points?
I do slightly lean towards the MVAC but thats purely for cosmetic reasons as i am a sucker for gadgets and pets, and i am not fussed about cloacking i have a klink for that kind of caper. If there are situations where using the MVAC ( or when you definitely shouldnt) then could you please explain and add it to the guide for us noobs
So guys arguments for an against the MVAC? i will hit 50 soon and need to decide in the next day or two.
Awesome thread and +1 for sticky.
Be carefull with gadgets and pets. Some of them are just that, gadgets and pets, which have no useful purpose. I myself have one of those little brown cubs which I call a cat/dog. It follows me everywhere I go on the ground but serves no useful purpose. I also have a several ship that I've purchaced that are now being used for parts storage.
Most of the time you are just spending Cryptic Points on stuff which is completely useless. You may have to buy a useless ship to get a console what appeals to your liking. You may want to buy a bridge officer which has some ability that you think you need.
Research these things to death before you spend the points. Some of them you can find discarded on the exchange. Some items, start out stong but end up getting a nerf later in the game which renders them useless.
So research research and research some more.
Plus, the Defiant-R used to be free before F2P, so a lot of players have it. And it is still free for 600-day veteran reward. MVAE has always been C-store.
Currently I run 3x Mk XI blue phaser dual cannons. I intend to buy 3x Mk XII purple STF weapons. Is it universally better to go with DHCs vs. DCs? So I should get 3x MK XII Phaser DHCs?
I already have the Photon Torpedo Launcher Mk XII (STF purple) in the front. I also have the same except Quantum torpedoes. I ended up going for photons since they have higher DPS. Because so many Borg targets are "big and durable", I don't bother with timing myphoton attacks. I have it set to autofire, and spam the TorpSpread skill as often as I am allowed. I devoted one of my tac console slots to the photon prefire chamber. Is it worth keeping that, or should I exchange it for a 4th Mk X purple phaser relay?
Also, currently in the rear slots I use 3x Phaser Turret Mk XI (STF purple). Is it worth upgrading those to Mk XII? The minimal damage increase tells me, not particularly.
I have run many, many elite STFs with my current ship. I really like it's setup, it seems effective and is very easy to drive (2 complimentary sets of 4 BOFF powers that go every 15 secs). Honestly I don't really find it lacking in any way. Is it even worth upgrading my fore weaps to Mk XII?
Did you ever figure out what to do with your Tactical officers? It feels like a waste, since the only ability I can use is the Tactical Team ability.
I've been contemplating doing an all beam ship, since I could use more abilities (target shields, for instance). But, also I would be able to maintain DPS, and keep my throttle up to increase defense.
I still love the all cannon build, and I would have wasted the MK XII Borg cannons I already redeemed. But, since I like having a tighter turn radius, perhaps it would be a better build if I just flew circles around my target and broadside them with 7 beam arrays.
I think the arguement for scatter volley is that 125% damage to more than 1 target is a lot more DPS than 150% damage to one target. While it's true that it'll be slower on just one target, are large portion of STFs is crowd control. Be it probes at the gate, protecting Kang/taking down nanite generators below the cubes, or cleaning up nanite spheres after taking down a transformer, AOE damage comes out higher for overall DPS.
Except when the Multi-Vector is in Multi-Vector mode. I run circles around the Defiant with it.
To answer the question about the Multi-Vector, no, you would not gimp the team in normal mode with MV Mode. I use it all the time against multiple ships, and it works well. But I never use it against cubes. And I am just beginning Elite, so I cannot offer you any advice on that.
Its like shooting a tank in pvp for 15 minutes. Sure your endgame damage numbers are massive but you didn't do anything helpful.
In pugs@elite when on a good day you get 1 or 2 people with decent dps builds scatter volley is just not helpful. Especially considering the only real priority targets all happen to be single targets and have loads of hp.
Frankly this stuff is mmo 101. Would you aoe a boss to death??? :rolleyes:
Not to mention getting bigger hits = bigger crits, so anyone using dhc's with +crit severity 'antiproton' will see some massive numbers
Only about 10-20% of any of the STF's is spent firing at a single target. Using non-AOE skills only in STF's will only make them last nonger.
In fact, in regards to the Tac Cubes, I did a run with my fleet last night and had 3 escorts focus firing on one shield facing of the tac cube and it died as fast as I've ever seen it go down, and all of us were using Scatter volley.
Of course, you can also choose to run 1x Scatter volley AND 1x rapid fire if you wish. Using the tac officer skill that increases BO recharge times for 60 seconds will let you re-use one of those continuously for awhile unabated, so thats something to think about too.
Fleet pre-made's vs pugs are completely different. I would love to get into a pug with 3 solid tactical dps'ers. But frankly I'm lucky to see 3 people join the group with decent builds+the brains to use them in 1 out of 10 pugs...
Maybe its the time of day I usually play but some of the builds I see in elite stf's pugs just shouldn't be there.
The probes at the gate are easy mode with almost any build. Hell I've seen cruisers just pull up and park broadside to the probes travel path and do a fine job of it.
Protecting the Kang is easy as well until the raptors ect come along. - most good dps'ers can do all 3 side's of the kang solo. - again until the raptors and friends come along...
Taking the nanite generators down to 10% in elite is a bad example.
Even if you're 1km away from the closest generator the second generator is what 8km-9km away??? Which means the damage you're doing to the 2nd generator is extremely minimal. So essentially you're just killing the close generator 25% slower with scatter volley 3 than rapid fire 3.
Usually I have my generator @ 10% then have to go help with the others. And often the others I have to help are using scatter volley.
If you're rolling pre-mades generally you have good coordination/communication, decent builds and focus fire then sure I can see SV working well. But currently when doing elite pugs getting good dps'ers is pretty much a TRIBBLE shoot. Most of my time is spent helping others kill targets they've been pounding on for way toooo long.
I still think this thread is full of win. It's definitely helping more than its hurting. Props for it.
After trying SV3 and CRF3 back and forth for a couple weeks, I'll never go back to CRF in any slot.
This is true to an extent, which is why I don't use MV Mode a whole lot in STFs. Only when I am in Khitomer Space, and even then, only against the probes/spheres. I do very well in that regard.
@Vizmu
I run a Multi-Vector, so I have 7 Tac BOFF Power slots. Here are my 7 powers:
Torpedo Spread 1, Torpedo Spread 2, Tactical Team 1, Tactical Team 1, Cannon: Scatter Volley 2, Cannon: Scatter Volley 3, Cannon: Rapid Fire 3.
Using these powers, and the appropriate damage consoles, etc, I can tear through anything in normal STFs, and I do considerable damage in Elite mode. I tend to die in Elite mode more often, as whatever I decide to shoot usually decides to target me back (Over the others), but I get around, and I am trying to figure out a way to make myself more durable.
on elite STFs spheres and cubes tear me apart. I mean they look at me the wrong way and I'm at half hull.
3x Antiproton Heavy Cannons (but I might throw in a AP Dual Beam Bank if recommended), 1x Quantum torp
3x AP Turrets
MACO Shield XI
Retro borg deflector and engine
EPS Flow X, Neutronium XI
Borg Console, MVA console, Biofunction X
AP Mag X (3), Zero point X
(for some reason, the XI tac consoles don't offer any % damage boost over X. Glitch or intended?)
CMDR tac - Tac team 1, Scatter 1, HY 3, Rapid fire 3
Lt tac - Tac team 1, Rapid Fire 1
ensign tac - Spread 1
engineer - EPtS 1, Auxillary to Dampeners 1
science - Transfer Shield 1, Hazard 2, Gravity Well
Also saving up C creds from the exchange for a respec, what's good skills to 9, and what else is good to have but NOT at 9 and how far should I go? Anyone got a good build setup?
One thing to remember about the STF Sets (Maco, Omega) is that a full set offers you some serious bonuses. I wouldn't recommend running Elite at all until you complete at least one set. Even with a full MACO set, the Borg on Elite run me through if I don't have heavy heals from a teammate. Biggest thing to remember about running an escort is that your best defense is to kill something before I can hit you too hard, or too many times.
The spheres I have very little trouble with going 1v1. Multiple spheres rip me apart. Remember to initiate MV Mode against spheres, but use sparingly (IMO) against any cubes.
As for the Console %s, a blue X offers the same as a green XI, so just upgrade to a blue or purple XI if you want the best available without completing a ton of Elite STFs.
Also, get a MACO MK XI shield ASAP, it will help you survive those spheres/cubes.
If you're already well geared and correctly skilled then killing it fast and not getting all the agro is the only thing left to do.
I usually run in a bop with all universal slots. This isn't my normal setup but even when running 2 x epts 3, 1 aux to sif 3, 2x engy team and rsp + 125 weaps, 121 shields when I get agro from multiple mobs in elite there's only so long I can last.
At this point I only run elites stf's. But I have the same agro issue. Its one of the reasons I ditched scatter volley @ elite mode. When you hit like a truck the borg get pretty ****ed at you lol.
In a normal mmo we would have a tank to get and hold the agro. Unfortunately tanks in this game don't do enough damage. Even when skilled into threat they can't get and hold the agro once a good tactical opens up.
Slightly OT:
It would be really nice if there was a semi pre-made queue. Like a queue you could join that only allowed x number of each ship type.
Or something where a player could make a game and others were allowed to queue for it. But the person that made it could inspect the players ships/builds in queue before accepting them.
The last elite pug I joined I saw 3 engy's and 1 sci. After seeing 2 of them zoom outta the spawn and each auto fire torps @ shields I left it. I would rather take the "leaver" penalty "which is absurd I might add" than sit in there for an hour watching them fly in circles blasting with unbuffed beams and tossing torps at shields lol...
That's mainly because the MACO/Omega sets don't actually offer any tanking set bonuses at all
1. Is it better to run a rank 3 APO/APB in the Cmdr Tax slot, or a rank 3 weapon ability like CSV or TS? I'm fairly sure that I'll have ready access to most of those, but it sounds like Exchange prices are crazy, and I'd like to make an informed choice. I know that there was some discussion of this upthread, but it didn't seem like a firm consensus was reached.
2. While the thread has been a huge help, it's also lacking one thing that the Dragon Flagship cruiser thread has, and the one thing that I think would be most helpful for a returning player to comprehend the changes to the game: sample Captain skill builds for each of the ship builds. I'm not looking to have a cookie-cutter build handed to me, but a starting point to think about the changes in a practical way would be nice.
3. This is of less concern, but I'll probably be flying an MVAE/Advanced once I've gotten myself caught up on gear and BOffs enough to do anything serious, and I was pondering whether it's possible to cram the beam boat build into one, and whether it's possible/worthwhile to add a torpedo to the beam boat.
Thanks for a fantastic thread, and thanks in advance for the help on my questions!
I don't know why people swear by the AoE attacks for elites, they don't hit any much harder then their single-target companions, and they're huge aggro magnets.
I took a look at Takticer's build in the engine and came up with this for my respec
Max:
Tac - Patterns, Weapon training, Energy, Projectile, Targeting
Eng - Electro-Plasma, Hull Repair, Efficiency, Potential, Shield Performance
Sci - Emitters and Systems
6:
Tac - Both Specialization
Eng - Battery, Armor reinforce, Integrity, Hull plating, engine and weapon performance
3: Flow Capacitor (for beam target shield), Particle Generator (for grav well), and Sensors (fire on my mark)
New Boff:
Tac Team 1 (x2), High yield torpedo 2, HYT 3, BO 2, Rapid Fire 3, Target shield 1
Emergency to shield 1, Reverse Polarity 1
Transfer 1, Emitters 2, Gravity well 1
using x2 Heavy cannon, DBB, and Quantum + 3 Turret
Reference: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=250103
Edit: Misread Particle Generator as Gravity... whoops! Still, the above information may be useful.
where you you suggest those points go then?
The exception is if you are using an escort with a Officer who doesn't have any skill points into Attack Patterns (like say a Sci or Eng who usually files Cruisers/Sci ships) then its a better idea to use a Commander level Scatter Volley 3.
2) I listed a build at one point in this thread, the build I'm still using, but there are still some issues with what skills do what and which ones actually work, so its hard for me to personally say "Use this Skill build" with any certainty. Theres a good thread in the Skill forum that lists what skills do what to help you decide how to allocate your points.
3) Yes, you can do a Beam Boat with a MVAM/Advanced. Thats actually a build I've been using for PVP/Kerrat, which allows me to combine it with Feedback Pulse.
Using a torpedo with the beam boat is pointless, as you are trying to broadside as much as possible with that setup.
I'll look back and bookmark the individual post with your skill build, too - thanks again!
Edit: Is this the right post/skill tree?
Nah, I am Science in an Escort and I have APB3. Just ask a Tactical Fleetmate to train up one of your BO's,
Same goes for ANY Commander skill. Just ask a Fleetmate to train it up for you.
Take all the gear off your BO, find Tactical Player in your fleet, trade BO, wait a minute, trade back, done and done.
EXCELLENT WORK! Keep it up!
@celloman
That makes more sense now.