I mean, I get it that we can fall into the trap of "first impressions" - I would never name a ship anything "gang" or "hate group" related, but making assumptions in MMO land is pretty dangerous as well.
Nevermind "first impressions", how about second, third, forth, etc? The person who posted this thread is only perpetuating the typtical l33t PvP3r stereotype and making less people want to play with him, not more.
Nevermind "first impressions", how about second, third, forth, etc? The person who posted this thread is only perpetuating the typtical l33t PvP3r stereotype and making less people want to play with him, not more.
Never mind the poster in quote as he / she is only perpetuating the typtical l33t PvE3r stereotype and making less people want to play with him, not more.
Lets add to that that PvE3r never whine about how game mechanic is OP or broken.
I rest my case. Take your fragile ego and preserve it.
Never mind the poster in quote as he / she is only perpetuating the typtical l33t PvP3r stereotype and making less people want to play with him, not more.
Its funny when people try to be clever but their comment doesnt even make sense
Actually I would not be surprised if Tattooing similar to the what is found in some earth cultures of leaving the skin raised through deliberate scarring did not exist in the KDF culture.
Slum only to those whom don't see its true beauty and a more hospitable place than the sterile and passionless halls of star fleet academy.....
Haaay... one of our sterile & passionless STF halls has a locker in it...
And I know for a fact that after-hours..,. that locker is 'rockin'...
Never mind the poster in quote as he / she is only perpetuating the typtical l33t PvE3r stereotype and making less people want to play with him, not more.
Lets add to that that PvE3r never whine about how game mechanic is OP or broken.
I rest my case. Take your fragile ego and preserve it.
This post just ****ed me off.
The OP of this thread actually insults those who dont want to PvP with thim. James.T.Picard did not insult the OP, only said that he is perpetuating a stereotype. If his post struck a nerve with you then you may also fit into the stereotyptical PvPer mentality as well.
Passion is expressed in many ways but if you first raise a blade against your enemy, intent on spilling blood, don't be surprised that instead of seeing passion, you're met with cold resolve to protect those endangered rather than meet your challenge with the same zeal in which you offer it!
Only the Feds think we show blade first in all occassions and if our methods did not work of us we would not have an Empire.
The Federation makes mistakes, just like any other galactic group of civilizations. At least the Federation asks questions first and shoots later. I wish I could say the same for Klingons.
One uses what works, had the Borg succeeded in destroying your culture in its infancy, I imagine the human survivors (if any) would've been less trusting of others afterward.
Instead since you almost destroyed yourselves, you've adopted the ask first aproach.
To assume we do not have diplomancy is to not play the DOff missions, which have many negotaition with minor species and trade negotiation missions.
To think our butting heads with you humans is our only recourse is of action is short sighted.
Our ways are simply not your ways,
More often than not, is passion used as an excuse for many evils and decisions that should have been contemplated in depth before executed.
To quote a figure from your own ancient culture, "semantics".
The mark of experience is knowing when not to succumb to passion.
and when to embrace it.
Oh it's not the conflict I mind. I just don't see why I should dedicate my play sessions to one faction or another. If I'm paying for something, or spending my time on it, I'd like to experience it to its fullest. In MMO's this means I'll want to have characters in many factions and across all classes, at least until I know which factions/classes are more to my liking for various reasons.
I must say though that regarding the KDF, I would've liked that faction in STO a lot more if it actually were fleshed out and not as PvP-dependent.
It would be nice to have a fully fledged MMO is defintion as well as name..... Hopefully once the KDF deed is done the Romulans will be easier to implement.
I've always thought the greatest strength of STO would be its diversity of availible play. It has not reached that full potential yet....
The OP of this thread actually insults those who dont want to PvP with thim. James.T.Picard did not insult the OP, only said that he is perpetuating a stereotype. If his post struck a nerve with you then you may also fit into the stereotyptical PvPer mentality as well.
And at the same time JTP sterotyping of PvP'ers insults those whom are not elite of mindset or consider themselves Uber in skill becuase they PvP.............
And at the same time JTP sterotyping of PvP'ers insults those whom are not elite of mindset or consider themselves Uber in skill becuase they PvP.............
Except if they are not part of the stereotype then it doesnt apply to them. Also I did not simply say "typical PvPer stereotype", I said "typtical l33t PvP3r" stereotype. If you are not that kind of PvPer than my comment doesnt apply to you.
Only the Feds think we show blade first in all occasions and if our methods did not work of us we would not have an Empire.
Excuse me but one of my first encounters with the Klingon Empire happened near P'Jem, remember that one? And guess what...? Diplomatic relationships have failed and the Klingons simply attacked. No my friend to me as a Federation Officer, Klingon diplomacy appears to start when the Blade fails!
...had the Borg succeeded in destroying your culture in its infancy, I imagine the human survivors (if any) would've been less trusting of others afterward.
Had the Borg succeeded, the entire Galaxy would look differently. I wonder why is it then that the Borg have not yet tried to assimilate the Klingons the way they tried to do with Earth... oh, perhaps it's because the Federation are explorers and have encountered foes the galaxy wasn't ready to meet, while the Klingons are still busy subjugating "minor" species and thumping each-other in the chest while quoting Klingon Opera.
Instead since you almost destroyed yourselves, you've adopted the ask first approach.
It's the only way to ensure an enemy that can save you from a bigger enemy actually survives long enough to aid you! Perhaps there are some things you could learn from our culture(s) after all?
Alas your ways aren't unique to you either because if you study Earth cultures, we in our past have had many societies that thought as you and behaved as you. They are a part of the Federations' past as we hope you will one day put your hardheadedness behind you and join the Federation once more.
...It would be nice to have a fully fledged MMO is definition as well as name...
I've long since given up on that lofty idea and am settling for playing entertaining games... like the upcoming SWTOR, Champions Online and looking forward to re-starting STO as new post January 17th 2012!
...Hopefully once the KDF deed is done the Romulans will be easier to implement.
I've always thought the greatest strength of STO would be its diversity of available play. It has not reached that full potential yet....
Excuse me but one of my first encounters with the Klingon Empire happened near P'Jem, remember that one? And guess what...? Diplomatic relationships have failed and the Klingons simply attacked. No my friend to me as a Federation Officer, Klingon diplomacy appears to start when the Blade fails!
Come visit on KDF ballroom dance night and you will see a different side to the Empire.....
Ah, of course... the End Justifies the Means argument...
One of life's Universal fatal flaws that we all trip upon. SOme more than others but it works better for others as well....
sometimes we have even shared this opinion at the same time.
Had the Borg succeeded, the entire Galaxy would look differently. I wonder why is it then that the Borg have not yet tried to assimilate the Klingons the way they tried to do with Earth... oh, perhaps it's because the Federation are explorers and have encountered foes the galaxy wasn't ready to meet, while the Klingons are still busy subjugating "minor" species and thumping each-other in the chest while quoting Klingon Opera.
Klingons make poor Borg, or so a random memory tells me....
It's the only way to ensure an enemy that can save you from a bigger enemy actually survives long enough to aid you! Perhaps there are some things you could learn from our culture(s) after all?
Or not, Depends on the lesson. Some we have learned from your people against our will. Others have downright shocked us.
OK, moving out of character now, the DOff system is a cheap Jedi Mind Trick and I refuse to treat it as anything but.
Still I find it enjoyable if becuase its something to do nad I hold hope some of those DOff mission become Player missions oneday. I even thought of making mini-foundry missions out of some.
Back in character however, calling any species "minor" already shows where your diplomacy is rooted.
I never said that Klingons where any less assured of their superiority than humans.
Was it not Picard himself who told Q on first meeting, "We will adapt etc etc." in which Q found to be arrogance? Eyes of the beholder and all that.
Then stop butting heads and perhaps we'd see you in a better light?
But nture has given us such great heads to butt. Of all the Foes we have encounetred only the Humans have recipocated with such passion the level of arch-villiany we give you. Its is a redeeming qaulity your species have.
Alas your ways aren't unique to you either because if you study Earth cultures, we in our past have had many societies that thought as you and behaved as you. They are a part of the Federations' past as we hope you will one day put your hardheadedness behind you and join the Federation once more.
But thanks to the attack of the Hurq, we made it work for us. Thanks to Kahless and his beliefs it has made us stronger.
To quote another, "The pen is mightier than the sword."
According to the commercial its the painstick inside the box, the pen merely facilitated is delivery.
Embrace passion in creativity, not destruction. That's all that needs to be said regarding that!
And yet one of the most human of quotes is, " its always easier to destroy than create."
I've long since given up on that lofty idea and am settling for playing entertaining games... like the upcoming SWTOR, Champions Online and looking forward to re-starting STO as new post January 17th 2012!
I unfortuantely fall into hope, despair and then hope again on a regular cycle.
And on that, we definitely agree.
See, an agreement and everybody still has all the blood they started with in the begining.
Come visit on KDF ballroom dance night and you will see a different side to the Empire.....
You see... that's the KDF players, not the KDF itself as is designed, written and implemented by Cryptic. I've never played any MMO because of the community that plays it. I always play to experience the gameplay and story-telling, and not necessarily the communities that come with the MMO.
And that's basically the biggest reason I don't want to PvP or am not moved into primarily playing a KDF character. I'm not a PvP'er in the sense that when I do choose to PvP it's more a 1v1 duel or a C&H match but not the forced fake animosity that is arenas or the Ker'rat system.
I'd definitely enjoy deep story-telling missions that had PvP components to them, from both Fed and KDF, but alas that doesn't seem to be the direction Cryptic foresees for STO PvP.
...its nice to not have to feel the need to defend every action or viewpoint.:D
I believe discussion are about contrasting and comparing more about attacking and defending.
You know, what truly bugs me about the KDF is that I was thinking, long ago, about trying to write a KDF Foundry mission. I just couldn't really do it because I honestly couldn't come up with a story I actually wanted to tell that was KDF-centric.
The trash talkers and internet tough guys aren't the majority of PVP'ers. I have watched a guy talk smack and TRIBBLE for a couple of weeks on a PVP server. Then he would get called out, lose to a player who was under geared compared to him. Then would be silent for about a week or a few days then go right back to the smack talk.
Most of the trash talkers are kids. I just like the increased difficulty of PVP. It helps just to ignore anything that doesn't relate to the match.
I have seen just as much smack talk coming from PVE'ers. There are actually people who believe scripted fights in MMO's are more difficult than fighting real players. Also that PVP'ers ruin games because of nerfs. If their DPS drops a little or they have to change a rotation they lash out at the PVP'ers.
These players are on both side of the game play. You could just describe them as MMO players.
These players are on both side of the game play. You could just describe them as MMO players.
It is true there are "jerks" on both sides of the coin. However why does PvP have the stereotype it does and PvE does not have the same one? Maybe it is because PvP attracts more of that type of person because that type of person is typically competitive in nature. That doesnt mean everyone who PvPers acts like that, but you will probably find more of them there than elsewhere. And that alone is enough to keep many people away.
It is true there are "jerks" on both sides of the coin. However why does PvP have the stereotype it does and PvE does not have the same one? Maybe it is because PvP attracts more of that type of person because that type of person is typically competitive in nature. That doesnt mean everyone who PvPers acts like that, but you will probably find more of them there than elsewhere. And that alone is enough to keep many people away.
That's a big part of it right there. There are two somewhat different streams that feed the culture.
There's the competitive, testosterone, trash-talking of competitive online games in general (anyone here ever play a shooter on a console online?). It's all fun and games. No harm done. Still, for people who aren't looking for towel-snaps in a locker room it can get very old, very fast.
Then there are Bartle's Killers. Players who don't even necessarily care about competition but simply like to TRIBBLE up other people's fun. PvP offers many, many, more opportunities for this than PvE. If your motivation is to see angry or upset players in tells and chat then you might be a killer. "We live for the tears of others."
There are also other PvPers, of course, who are mature and easy going. There are even PvP-RPers out there (a really small group but a vocal and generally decent one).
But it's the core of the culture that creates the impressions others have of it.
It is true there are "jerks" on both sides of the coin. However why does PvP have the stereotype it does and PvE does not have the same one? Maybe it is because PvP attracts more of that type of person because that type of person is typically competitive in nature. That doesnt mean everyone who PvPers acts like that, but you will probably find more of them there than elsewhere. And that alone is enough to keep many people away.
There are plenty of competitive PVE players. I don't know how you missed it in MMO's. People obsessed with their DPS, loot Ho's, drama with raid assignments and roles. It's all there you just choose to ignore it.
Every time I log on and check the pvp queue past captain level there are 4 Klingons in line and zero feds
where are you guys hiding? are you all really that scared of getting blown up?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Sorry bud, I've got missions to do.
Tell ya what.. when they make PVP actually mean something in this game, try and keep me away. I want a record of how many Klingons I've murdered. "Just for fun" don't cut it.
Tell ya what.. when they make PVP actually mean something in this game, try and keep me away. I want a record of how many Klingons I've murdered. "Just for fun" don't cut it.
Comments
Nevermind "first impressions", how about second, third, forth, etc? The person who posted this thread is only perpetuating the typtical l33t PvP3r stereotype and making less people want to play with him, not more.
Never mind the poster in quote as he / she is only perpetuating the typtical l33t PvE3r stereotype and making less people want to play with him, not more.
Lets add to that that PvE3r never whine about how game mechanic is OP or broken.
I rest my case. Take your fragile ego and preserve it.
This post just ****ed me off.
Its funny when people try to be clever but their comment doesnt even make sense
One beer to many, and you were to fast
The OP of this thread actually insults those who dont want to PvP with thim. James.T.Picard did not insult the OP, only said that he is perpetuating a stereotype. If his post struck a nerve with you then you may also fit into the stereotyptical PvPer mentality as well.
And at the same time JTP sterotyping of PvP'ers insults those whom are not elite of mindset or consider themselves Uber in skill becuase they PvP.............
Except if they are not part of the stereotype then it doesnt apply to them. Also I did not simply say "typical PvPer stereotype", I said "typtical l33t PvP3r" stereotype. If you are not that kind of PvPer than my comment doesnt apply to you.
Ah, of course... the End Justifies the Means argument...
Had the Borg succeeded, the entire Galaxy would look differently. I wonder why is it then that the Borg have not yet tried to assimilate the Klingons the way they tried to do with Earth... oh, perhaps it's because the Federation are explorers and have encountered foes the galaxy wasn't ready to meet, while the Klingons are still busy subjugating "minor" species and thumping each-other in the chest while quoting Klingon Opera.
It's the only way to ensure an enemy that can save you from a bigger enemy actually survives long enough to aid you! Perhaps there are some things you could learn from our culture(s) after all?
OK, moving out of character now, the DOff system is a cheap Jedi Mind Trick and I refuse to treat it as anything but.
Back in character however, calling any species "minor" already shows where your diplomacy is rooted.
Then stop butting heads and perhaps we'd see you in a better light?
Alas your ways aren't unique to you either because if you study Earth cultures, we in our past have had many societies that thought as you and behaved as you. They are a part of the Federations' past as we hope you will one day put your hardheadedness behind you and join the Federation once more.
To quote another, "The pen is mightier than the sword."
Embrace passion in creativity, not destruction. That's all that needs to be said regarding that!
I've long since given up on that lofty idea and am settling for playing entertaining games... like the upcoming SWTOR, Champions Online and looking forward to re-starting STO as new post January 17th 2012!
And on that, we definitely agree.
Stop stealin' my words...
(though you can borrow them if the occasion fits...)
<Big Gaffaw Chuckle>
And that's basically the biggest reason I don't want to PvP or am not moved into primarily playing a KDF character. I'm not a PvP'er in the sense that when I do choose to PvP it's more a 1v1 duel or a C&H match but not the forced fake animosity that is arenas or the Ker'rat system.
I'd definitely enjoy deep story-telling missions that had PvP components to them, from both Fed and KDF, but alas that doesn't seem to be the direction Cryptic foresees for STO PvP.
That is of course true, which is another good reason to stay the Blade and use the Pen first.
Regardless, I've enjoyed amicably discussing things with you.
I'm starting to think its the pointy and somewhat razor bladed shoes.......
If it facilitates me getting one of those pocket pain sticks, I will agree the pen can be mighty....
As Have I, its nice to not have to feel the need to defend everry action or viewpoint.:D
The forum is causing me to channel my inner Orion wordsmith. I sell you words in the slaved word market now for a profit.
You know, what truly bugs me about the KDF is that I was thinking, long ago, about trying to write a KDF Foundry mission. I just couldn't really do it because I honestly couldn't come up with a story I actually wanted to tell that was KDF-centric.
Most of the trash talkers are kids. I just like the increased difficulty of PVP. It helps just to ignore anything that doesn't relate to the match.
I have seen just as much smack talk coming from PVE'ers. There are actually people who believe scripted fights in MMO's are more difficult than fighting real players. Also that PVP'ers ruin games because of nerfs. If their DPS drops a little or they have to change a rotation they lash out at the PVP'ers.
These players are on both side of the game play. You could just describe them as MMO players.
It is true there are "jerks" on both sides of the coin. However why does PvP have the stereotype it does and PvE does not have the same one? Maybe it is because PvP attracts more of that type of person because that type of person is typically competitive in nature. That doesnt mean everyone who PvPers acts like that, but you will probably find more of them there than elsewhere. And that alone is enough to keep many people away.
Be verwey, Verwey careful...
My words more often than not, come back to bite with a vengence...
I have, on more than one occasion, received a few scars from their gnawing teeth...
...and there isn't a safe place in this universe to hide from them.
To quote a Lovely Mistress I once knew... (in my younger years when the whip, chains and paddles were fun)
"...Vengence hath no wrath..., like that of your own words bittin' your own TRIBBLE..."
(...I know She said a few other things also... but I was too busy squirmin' & wincing' to remember...)
:eek:
That's a big part of it right there. There are two somewhat different streams that feed the culture.
There's the competitive, testosterone, trash-talking of competitive online games in general (anyone here ever play a shooter on a console online?). It's all fun and games. No harm done. Still, for people who aren't looking for towel-snaps in a locker room it can get very old, very fast.
Then there are Bartle's Killers. Players who don't even necessarily care about competition but simply like to TRIBBLE up other people's fun. PvP offers many, many, more opportunities for this than PvE. If your motivation is to see angry or upset players in tells and chat then you might be a killer. "We live for the tears of others."
There are also other PvPers, of course, who are mature and easy going. There are even PvP-RPers out there (a really small group but a vocal and generally decent one).
But it's the core of the culture that creates the impressions others have of it.
There are plenty of competitive PVE players. I don't know how you missed it in MMO's. People obsessed with their DPS, loot Ho's, drama with raid assignments and roles. It's all there you just choose to ignore it.
I never said there werent competitive PvErs. Respond to what I actually said and then we'll talk.
Listed examples of why PVE players have the same stereo type, I can't help you can't respond.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Sorry bud, I've got missions to do.
Tell ya what.. when they make PVP actually mean something in this game, try and keep me away. I want a record of how many Klingons I've murdered. "Just for fun" don't cut it.
How dare this game be fun!
I love this post. It's spoken like a true Klingon.