The Star Trek I take away from the series has nothing to do with PvP in the least, as it is not Trek, I do not participate in it.
There is no distinction between PvE and PvP in TV series or movies.
But if you want conflict between major characters in a show or movie:
Khan vs Kirk, Chang vs. Kirk, Janeway vs. Borg Queen, Picard vs. Cloned Picard, Sisko vs. Eddington?
Fighting faceless NPC ships doesn't give you this feeling. But PvP - well, it gets a lot closer... You have to out-think, out-maneuver, out-trick a foe that is just as capable as you are (instead of a braindead AI.)
The only regrettable thing is that Cryptic hasn't come up with "Diplomacy PvP", so we can also replay Q vs Picard, Kirk vs [SUPERIOR ALIEN BEING] etc...
Every time I log on and check the pvp queue past captain level there are 4 Klingons in line and zero feds
where are you guys hiding? are you all really that scared of getting blown up?
Nope, we are tired of how broken half the game mechanics are and tired of attitudes like this.
Nothing is more fun than fighting somebody who can enter and leave battle at whim, through battle cloak. I can replicate the effect by hitting escape and logging out. I get tired if seeing birds of prey come in, fire 1 shot.. then disappear again, while talking smack about how "leet" they are. Frankly I could care less if you ever queue up again.
PvP has become a joke in this game. Play a cookie cutter build or don't play at all. Ship stats and abilities that are wildly imbalanced and more new ships that are clearly not lining up with existing ship stats in any way.
I have seen the continual disintegration of PvP in this game from variety and fun, where I would PvP 8+ hours a day Fed or Klingon.. to complete disgust.
So, Cowardice.. no.
Could care less if you sit there all day waiting for a match to stroke that ego.... yes
PvP is beyond repair in this game, because the developers do not care about PvP. They never have and never will.
The only regrettable thing is that Cryptic hasn't come up with "Diplomacy PvP", so we can also replay Q vs Picard, Kirk vs [SUPERIOR ALIEN BEING] etc...
Diplomacy PvP would quickly consume every waking moment I spend on STO with addiction. :P I want it.
I think more to the point also, is why Klingons don't fight other Klingons? Whenever i'm on mine I hardly ever see KvK pvp. Could be just a lack of population, but at least queue for it while you are on your Klinks and help the situation.
PvP and PvE are gaming terms that are absolutely irrelevant to the story of Trek. The only term that has any relation to Trek is "combat". If you want to say that combat isnt what Trek is all about thats fine, although that applies equally to fighting a Klingon NPC as it does to fighting a Klingon player. Neither is more or less "Trek" than the other.
I need to point out a distinction that MustrumRidcully touches on. He uses conflict as the term, not combat. Conflict _IS_ a very core 'value' to Trek. This is something that seems to get lost in the pile is this distinction. MMO players get lulled into the 'shoot them in the face' mentality, which probably happens because thats what they want. This can be said to be a part of conflict, but conflict is a much broader term then this. Conflict also encompasses moral decisions and ethical dilemmas. Sadly I fear most MMO players would not enjoy playing these out, and that is made equally hard because Klingons don't have the same quandaries, except maybe Worf, but his party is out of favor in the Empire since Martok died.
Most of my descision making about where I spend my time in game has to do with these ideas. Mindlessly shooting people in the face is not where I feel Trek as a whole should be focused. Heck running the Nagus dailies I am quite happy that I can avoid fighting in order to complete them, so thanks for that!
As someone who occasionally logs into a Gorn char for the heck of it I have to ask an honest counter question to the OP.
Why don't the Klingons ever queue for KvK?
No implications here, just an honest curiosity.
I know why. Same reasons that many don't queue up for FvK... but 2 times the reason.
Nothing more fun that 2 teams cloaked that refuse to decloak. Then the losing team would just cloak for the rest of the day and talk garbage while stating that they win, because the opposing team can't kill them (a scenario I have encountered a lot)
2) a complete lack of desire to play with people who post threads like this
THIS. The kind of Attitude that was displayed by the OP is the main reason i stay away from PvP in this and any game. If there was a lot less of that kind of attitude i would love to learn PvP in here but not going to deal with that.
THIS. The kind of Attitude that was displayed by the OP is the main reason i stay away from PvP in this and any game. If there was a lot less of that kind of attitude i would love to learn PvP in here but not going to deal with that.
I'll admit sometimes this factors into my decision on whether or not to PvP on a given day.
Sometimes I feel like I can just ignore the trash talk and have some fun, sometimes not.
I'm not against talking a little bit of smack, as long as everybody stays civil and acts like an adult, but when it devolves into immaturity, well count me out.
THIS. The kind of Attitude that was displayed by the OP is the main reason i stay away from PvP in this and any game. If there was a lot less of that kind of attitude i would love to learn PvP in here but not going to deal with that.
Ditto the two above. I don't mind a little smack talk, but when the other players start acting like 12 year old children... it sort of makes the PvP hard to stick in.
One would think by now that the Klingons would be easily able to detect their own ships when they are cloaked...
After all, they have had to build and maintain the systems that create the cloak effect for several centuries at this point... they know the systems inside and out.
By this time, it should be quite a simple matter for them to thwart their fellow Camouflagers...
IMO, this should be reflected in the game some how.
By this time, it should be quite a simple matter for them to thwart their fellow Camouflagers...
IMO, this should be reflected in the game some how.
Some sort of skill that is granted to every Captain at a certain rank?
It would be a weak short range cloak detect (only usable decloaked) vs Feds and anyone else, but a strong mid-range detect (usable cloaked) vs other Klingons.
Some sort of skill that is granted to every Captain at a certain rank?
It would be a weak short range cloak detect (only usable decloaked) vs Feds and anyone else, but a strong mid-range detect (usable cloaked) vs other Klingons.
I actually support this idea. I might start PvPing on my Klingon more if we had this.
Ditto the two above. I don't mind a little smack talk, but when the other players start acting like 12 year old children... it sort of makes the PvP hard to stick in.
I need to point out a distinction that MustrumRidcully touches on. He uses conflict as the term, not combat. Conflict _IS_ a very core 'value' to Trek.
I agree. However I used the term "combat", and my point stands that whether your fighting a Klingon NPC or a Klingon player it is still combat. That is why I said that PvE and PvP are gaming terms that are irrelevant to the story of Trek.
Heck running the Nagus dailies I am quite happy that I can avoid fighting in order to complete them, so thanks for that!
I'm glad to hear your enjoying them and I wish I could figure out a meaningful way to make combat optional in all of them, but unfortunately it is pretty hard to do in a way that doesnt seem forced just for the sake of saying its optional. That said, I hope the combat in most of the missions at least makes sense for the story and doesnt seem like you are some kind of murderer =P
PS: I just added a new daily to the mix. Its called "Capture Facility" and does involve combat, but I'd still like to know what you think. More details in the 1st link in my sig
I am a fan of indirect PvP. Things like races. Lego Indiana Jones or Battletoads stuff where you can squabble with an allied player over loot and steal from eachother but you have to work together against a common enemy.
Direct killing eachother PvP is the kind I am not as personally sold on.
But if there was a melee weapons only version, I'd be all about that. I killed Dstahl once in a Bat'leth brawl.
the other issue with STO is that the balancing across the three classes is out the window, there isnt really a paper rock scissors aproach to the classes its basically
rock in a sock wins everytime so dont bother bringing paper or scissors to the fight.
PvP and PvE are gaming terms that are absolutely irrelevant to the story of Trek. The only term that has any relation to Trek is "combat". If you want to say that combat isnt what Trek is all about thats fine, although that applies equally to fighting a Klingon NPC as it does to fighting a Klingon player. Neither is more or less "Trek" than the other.
the other issue with STO is that the balancing across the three classes is out the window, there isnt really a paper rock scissors aproach to the classes its basically
rock in a sock wins everytime so dont bother bringing paper or scissors to the fight.
nice summary.
there needs to be a "triangle" system. for there to be balance.
Every time I log on and check the pvp queue past captain level there are 4 Klingons in line and zero feds
where are you guys hiding? are you all really that scared of getting blown up?
Gotta remember, Feds have 10x as much to do as the Klingons....they don't have missions requiring xx number of pvp battles, kills or deaths
When the game first launched, PvP was AWESOME! You didn't have time to P between matches because the que would pop so quickly. Then came the screams about the extremly over powered BoP (and no, I don't really think it is, so stop) and multiple complaints in general about the advantage of the cloak and *poof* the whiners got their own FvF- PvP so they could fight amoung each other rather thaer than learning to work as a team or utilizing abilities to defeat or detect cloaked ships...
And now you have the continuing cries of P2W....and PvP dies a slow horrible death...
Well, it's not dead, just crippled...Try the War zones...there is PvP to be found...
But, it's just nothing like it used to be....at lower lvls it's almost impossible to get, by Lt Gen they get easier to find.
there needs to be a "triangle" system. for there to be balance.
"Triangle" balancing is actually very rudimentary (in terms of potential balancing schemes) and almost invariably deteriorates into what we have today.
A better scheme is to make all 'classes' equal in terms of 'raw pwnage potential' but for differing reasons, with differing styles, and each unique when played with a different play style.
To put it another way; classes aren't meant to make sure that you can be pwned by at least one other class, but are rather meant to allow freedom of play style.
Ditto the two above. I don't mind a little smack talk, but when the other players start acting like 12 year old children... it sort of makes the PvP hard to stick in.
I'll admit sometimes this factors into my decision on whether or not to PvP on a given day.
Sometimes I feel like I can just ignore the trash talk and have some fun, sometimes not.
I'm not against talking a little bit of smack, as long as everybody stays civil and acts like an adult, but when it devolves into immaturity, well count me out.
THIS. The kind of Attitude that was displayed by the OP is the main reason i stay away from PvP in this and any game. If there was a lot less of that kind of attitude i would love to learn PvP in here but not going to deal with that.
It the 2 years of playing, and PvP'ing here, I've never ran into the problem you guys all insist exists. Ever wonder if maybe its your attitudes that cause you the trouble? I've been in tons of PvP matches, and even though I trash talk the klinks, we all end the match on a good note.
Comments
There is no distinction between PvE and PvP in TV series or movies.
But if you want conflict between major characters in a show or movie:
Khan vs Kirk, Chang vs. Kirk, Janeway vs. Borg Queen, Picard vs. Cloned Picard, Sisko vs. Eddington?
Fighting faceless NPC ships doesn't give you this feeling. But PvP - well, it gets a lot closer... You have to out-think, out-maneuver, out-trick a foe that is just as capable as you are (instead of a braindead AI.)
The only regrettable thing is that Cryptic hasn't come up with "Diplomacy PvP", so we can also replay Q vs Picard, Kirk vs [SUPERIOR ALIEN BEING] etc...
Nope, we are tired of how broken half the game mechanics are and tired of attitudes like this.
Nothing is more fun than fighting somebody who can enter and leave battle at whim, through battle cloak. I can replicate the effect by hitting escape and logging out. I get tired if seeing birds of prey come in, fire 1 shot.. then disappear again, while talking smack about how "leet" they are. Frankly I could care less if you ever queue up again.
PvP has become a joke in this game. Play a cookie cutter build or don't play at all. Ship stats and abilities that are wildly imbalanced and more new ships that are clearly not lining up with existing ship stats in any way.
I have seen the continual disintegration of PvP in this game from variety and fun, where I would PvP 8+ hours a day Fed or Klingon.. to complete disgust.
So, Cowardice.. no.
Could care less if you sit there all day waiting for a match to stroke that ego.... yes
PvP is beyond repair in this game, because the developers do not care about PvP. They never have and never will.
7 days until TOR
Diplomacy PvP would quickly consume every waking moment I spend on STO with addiction. :P I want it.
Why don't the Klingons ever queue for KvK?
No implications here, just an honest curiosity.
I need to point out a distinction that MustrumRidcully touches on. He uses conflict as the term, not combat. Conflict _IS_ a very core 'value' to Trek. This is something that seems to get lost in the pile is this distinction. MMO players get lulled into the 'shoot them in the face' mentality, which probably happens because thats what they want. This can be said to be a part of conflict, but conflict is a much broader term then this. Conflict also encompasses moral decisions and ethical dilemmas. Sadly I fear most MMO players would not enjoy playing these out, and that is made equally hard because Klingons don't have the same quandaries, except maybe Worf, but his party is out of favor in the Empire since Martok died.
Most of my descision making about where I spend my time in game has to do with these ideas. Mindlessly shooting people in the face is not where I feel Trek as a whole should be focused. Heck running the Nagus dailies I am quite happy that I can avoid fighting in order to complete them, so thanks for that!
I know why. Same reasons that many don't queue up for FvK... but 2 times the reason.
Nothing more fun that 2 teams cloaked that refuse to decloak. Then the losing team would just cloak for the rest of the day and talk garbage while stating that they win, because the opposing team can't kill them (a scenario I have encountered a lot)
But I bet the smack talk would be fun to record.
THIS. The kind of Attitude that was displayed by the OP is the main reason i stay away from PvP in this and any game. If there was a lot less of that kind of attitude i would love to learn PvP in here but not going to deal with that.
I'll admit sometimes this factors into my decision on whether or not to PvP on a given day.
Sometimes I feel like I can just ignore the trash talk and have some fun, sometimes not.
I'm not against talking a little bit of smack, as long as everybody stays civil and acts like an adult, but when it devolves into immaturity, well count me out.
Ditto the two above. I don't mind a little smack talk, but when the other players start acting like 12 year old children... it sort of makes the PvP hard to stick in.
/thread
Yeah,I'm only on this comment so far and I don't see this thread ending well. :rolleyes:
Didn't they have to take out a DOff mission regarding this.....?
After all, they have had to build and maintain the systems that create the cloak effect for several centuries at this point... they know the systems inside and out.
By this time, it should be quite a simple matter for them to thwart their fellow Camouflagers...
IMO, this should be reflected in the game some how.
Heh...,
I believe that that particular assignment has become Very Rare, but is still around somewhere...
Some sort of skill that is granted to every Captain at a certain rank?
It would be a weak short range cloak detect (only usable decloaked) vs Feds and anyone else, but a strong mid-range detect (usable cloaked) vs other Klingons.
I actually support this idea. I might start PvPing on my Klingon more if we had this.
I agree. However I used the term "combat", and my point stands that whether your fighting a Klingon NPC or a Klingon player it is still combat. That is why I said that PvE and PvP are gaming terms that are irrelevant to the story of Trek.
I'm glad to hear your enjoying them and I wish I could figure out a meaningful way to make combat optional in all of them, but unfortunately it is pretty hard to do in a way that doesnt seem forced just for the sake of saying its optional. That said, I hope the combat in most of the missions at least makes sense for the story and doesnt seem like you are some kind of murderer =P
PS: I just added a new daily to the mix. Its called "Capture Facility" and does involve combat, but I'd still like to know what you think. More details in the 1st link in my sig
Direct killing eachother PvP is the kind I am not as personally sold on.
But if there was a melee weapons only version, I'd be all about that. I killed Dstahl once in a Bat'leth brawl.
rock in a sock wins everytime so dont bother bringing paper or scissors to the fight.
massive pwnage points
nice summary.
there needs to be a "triangle" system. for there to be balance.
I get how Spock fits into that, but what about the lizard? What about the lizard?!
bazinga!
Gotta remember, Feds have 10x as much to do as the Klingons....they don't have missions requiring xx number of pvp battles, kills or deaths
When the game first launched, PvP was AWESOME! You didn't have time to P between matches because the que would pop so quickly. Then came the screams about the extremly over powered BoP (and no, I don't really think it is, so stop) and multiple complaints in general about the advantage of the cloak and *poof* the whiners got their own FvF- PvP so they could fight amoung each other rather thaer than learning to work as a team or utilizing abilities to defeat or detect cloaked ships...
And now you have the continuing cries of P2W....and PvP dies a slow horrible death...
Well, it's not dead, just crippled...Try the War zones...there is PvP to be found...
But, it's just nothing like it used to be....at lower lvls it's almost impossible to get, by Lt Gen they get easier to find.
There's your answer in a nutshell.
"Triangle" balancing is actually very rudimentary (in terms of potential balancing schemes) and almost invariably deteriorates into what we have today.
A better scheme is to make all 'classes' equal in terms of 'raw pwnage potential' but for differing reasons, with differing styles, and each unique when played with a different play style.
To put it another way; classes aren't meant to make sure that you can be pwned by at least one other class, but are rather meant to allow freedom of play style.
It the 2 years of playing, and PvP'ing here, I've never ran into the problem you guys all insist exists. Ever wonder if maybe its your attitudes that cause you the trouble? I've been in tons of PvP matches, and even though I trash talk the klinks, we all end the match on a good note.
*ding*ding*
We have a winner.