My question is with limit of 5 open offers per account say I have 5 characters that I put their dilithium up for trade if I read it right. Does this mean all this C Points go towards the account for any character to use?
This is not a system that will be controlled by the players. This is a system that is controlled by Cryptic and is designed to solely to set a fixed price for to purchase in game currency for US$.
Cryptic will argue that It's hardly a fixed price.... you can sell 5000 C-point for 250K Dilithium or 2.5 Million Dilithium.... thats one heck of a price difference.... BUT if you look at my sig... they are valuing dilithium for MUCH lower than I would like. Having a limit other than 1 or even 5 is TRIBBLE.
My math would value one cryptic point at around 6 Dilithium which is MUCH lower than they allow. I'd be willing to sell them at a value of half of minimum wage... so 12 dilithium per C-Point...
80 C-Points will sell at 6400 Dilithium at the lowest allowed exchange rate.
At the 50 Dilithium per C-Point Exchange rate:
80 C-Point/dollar = 6400 Dilithium/Dollar.
6400/480 = 13.3repeating... 13.3 times 10 miuntes...
thats 130 minutes/Dollar... so about 50 cents per hour... of your time
At the 500 Dilithium per C-Point Exchange rate:
80 C-Points/dollar = 40000 Dilithium/Dollar.
40000/480 = 83..3repeating... 83.3 times 10 miuntes...
thats 833 minutes/Dollar... so about 7 cents per hour... of your time
So who in thie right mind wouldn't sell at 50 per C-Point because that the lowest they can go? Thats the exchange rate.... it's fixed because not selling at 50 is TRIBBLE youself...
Is this just for Dilithium bought via the Exchange, or does it allow Dilithium to be shared between characters regardless?
Edit: Looks like you can...
Place Dilithium from Character A on Exchange.
Cancel order. Dilithium goes to Exchange Balance.
Character B takes Dilithium from Exchange Balance.
???
Profit.
Is this for trading Dilithium Ore or Refined Dilithium? If Refined Dilithium can be traded, it means that the 8000 limit is easily dealt with. Refine on multiple characters and trade to main.
We are currently evaluating a change where orders could only be cancelled by the character that created them, and the escrowed Dilithium from a cancelled order would be deposited directly back into that character's personal balance rather than the account wide exchange balance.
Any chance of getting to see a global buy/sell history instead of just your own personal buy/sell history? I can't begin to imagine how people are going to price this stuff without being able to tell what people are currently paying.
The window will display the current top 5 buy offer prices and top 5 sell offer prices, with quantity available at those prices, so you can always see where the market is currently priced.
We are currently evaluating a change where orders could only be cancelled by the character that created them, and the escrowed Dilithium from a cancelled order would be deposited directly back into that character's personal balance rather than the account wide exchange balance.
Will there be any way to directly transfer Dilithium between characters (either just account wise (possibly through an account bank *nudge nudge*) or to other players)?
we already have a currency in STO, Energy Credits.
EC are freely tradable among NPC vendors and with other players.
Wheras Dil, well, maybe now it canbe traded among characters on an account using the Dil/C-Point exchange, may make it viable for a player to have a single crafting toon, but still eliminates all possibility for having a fleet crafter.
absolute hard limits are being set on the Dil/C-Point exchange, which reeks of artificial currency manipulation. (we all know who is famous for that, don't we)
The economy fixes that are needed now are EC sinks. without such sinks any changes to the Dil psudeo-economy are meaningless.
Putting any artificial cap on Dilthium per C-point effectivly spells DOOM for this economy..
The cash buyer needs to decide the price paid in real $$ terms.
I can see 5000-10000 dilithium per C-point being closer to the mark... but there shouldnt be any upper limit artifically imposed on price per point
You have to look at the numbers on the given cap of 500 dilihtium per point which is 600,000 dilithium for say a 1200 c point T5 ship. Which if you break that down in the conversion of 480 dilithium per emblem a ship that on holodeck is 500 emblems with that 500 cap is 1,250 emblems so in some regards you could say the cap is too high being it would take you 3 times longer to obtain a ship without paying real money for it. I hope this broadens your horizons
500 only per C-point? That's setting quite a low bar on the value of Dilithium. For this to be successful you will need to offer a wide enough birth to convince people spending real money is worth it. If this were holodeck, I will personally tell you that I wouldn't spend real money unless i was getting at least 1k DL per point.
We will be adjusting the various limits based on our data analysis and player feedback after the exchange goes live on Tribble.
We are currently evaluating a change where orders could only be cancelled by the character that created them, and the escrowed Dilithium from a cancelled order would be deposited directly back into that character's personal balance rather than the account wide exchange balance.
BOOOOO!
Another nail in the Fleet Crafter coffin....
With out the abiltiy to move Dilithium between characters, ie to a Fleet Crafter Character, then this further damages the Fleet Community.
The window will display the current top 5 buy offer prices and top 5 sell offer prices, with quantity available at those prices, so you can always see where the market is currently priced.
What do you mean the "Top 5"?? The Top 5 cheapest? The Top 5 most expensive?
You have to look at the numbers on the given cap of 500 dilihtium per point which is 600,000 dilithium for say a 1200 c point T5 ship. Which if you break that down in the conversion of 480 dilithium per emblem a ship that on holodeck is 500 emblems with that 500 cap is 1,250 emblems so in some regards you could say the cap is too high being it would take you 3 times longer to obtain a ship without paying real money for it. I hope this broadens your horizons
Economics 101... Supply vs Demand.
F2P players will make up the bulk of "Dilithium earners", those F2Pers dont bring in C-points to this equation..
Over time dilithium will far exceed c-points.... just as "Free" players will far exceed cash buyers.
what time is it coming back up... I have doff's to attend to. ;-P
I don't have an exact ETA, but operations is doing some extra maintenance on the machines, so the downtime will be extended a bit from just a normal patch.
We will be adjusting the various limits based on our data analysis and player feedback after the exchange goes live on Tribble.
You are even saying it! Cryptic sets the value of value of dilithium. Players will have no control over the value of dilithium or the time they put in to grind it.
We can give you feedback. but if you find that too low or too high. you will set value of dilithium to what you want with price controls. You are basically setting a fixed price for dilithium to C-point and to real money.
Putting any artificial cap on Dilthium per C-point effectivly spells DOOM for this economy..
The cash buyer needs to decide the price paid in real $$ terms.
I can see 5000-10000 dilithium per C-point being closer to the mark... but there shouldnt be any upper limit artifically imposed on price per point
seems to me that the only reason people would want a price cap removed would be to sell their dilithium at a price that would effectively be termed "way overpriced" and as such their dilithium/c-points would prob not sell at all, remember that the people buying the dilithium/c-points will look for the lowest prices, if everyone sold their c-points/dilithium for too much, no one would buy it and there would be no point in having the exchange at all, the cap is a good idea as it keeps the prices reasonable and will promote more people to use the exchange.
As much as I'm happy with most of the other Tribble changes so far, can anyone really see themselves using this mechanism?
Absolutely not... because of the utter mismatch of in game dilithium prices vs C-store prices when you break it down to REAL money... look at my sig....
No way would I sell 500 or even 1000 dilithium as one person suggested for one c-point... it takes a time to gather and 1 C-Point is not worth that much of any of our time. I would be better off working a second job at McDonalds for that time instead and just buying the points on my own.
Everyone will be selling at 50, and I'll be happy when the limit hits 5, 10 or even 25
Personally, I think the price range is good. My initial guess at a good value was 1600 CP = 240k Dilithium (2x T5 ships). That's 150 Dilithium per CPoint. So the 50 to 500 range seems reasonable to account for various perceptions in which currency is more valuable.
Absolutely not... because of the utter mismatch of in game dilithium prices vs C-store prices when you break it down to REAL money... look at my sig....
No way would I sell 500 or even 1000 dilithium as one person suggested for one c-point... it takes a time to gather and 1 C-Point is not worth that much of any of our time. I would be better off working a second job at McDonalds for that time instead and just buying the points on my own.
Everyone will be selling at 50
You are failing to see Supply vs Demand
Spending "Real" $$ for C-points is the limiting factor. The C-point holder will be looking for the Highest Dilithium per point...
You might sell at 50, but there will be far more selling at 500 because C-points are in short supply and high demand.
Personally, I think the price range is good. My initial guess at a good value was 1600 CP = 240k Dilithium (2x T5 ships). That's 150 Dilithium per CPoint. So the 50 to 500 range seems reasonable to account for various perceptions in which currency is more valuable.
I agree. I would guess it comes out to be more like 200.
It means the five highest priced buy offers and the five lowest priced sell offers.
by offers are we to assume a proposed completed transaction is an "offer"? Otherwise, won't the top 5 high and low always be the max/min the system allows?
Cryptic will argue that It's hardly a fixed price.... you can sell 5000 C-point for 250K Dilithium or 2.5 Million Dilithium.... thats one heck of a price difference.... BUT if you look at my sig... they are valuing dilithium for MUCH lower than I would like. Having a limit other than 1 or even 5 is TRIBBLE.
My math would value one cryptic point at around 6 Dilithium which is MUCH lower than they allow. I'd be willing to sell them at a value of half of minimum wage... so 12 dilithium per C-Point...
80 C-Points will sell at 6400 Dilithium at the lowest allowed exchange rate.
At the 50 Dilithium per C-Point Exchange rate:
80 C-Point/dollar = 6400 Dilithium/Dollar.
6400/480 = 13.3repeating... 13.3 times 10 miuntes...
thats 130 minutes/Dollar... so about 50 cents per hour... of your time
At the 500 Dilithium per C-Point Exchange rate:
80 C-Points/dollar = 40000 Dilithium/Dollar.
40000/480 = 83..3repeating... 83.3 times 10 miuntes...
thats 833 minutes/Dollar... so about 7 cents per hour... of your time
So who in thie right mind wouldn't sell at 50 per C-Point because that the lowest they can go? Thats the exchange rate.... it's fixed because not selling at 50 is TRIBBLE youself...
This is the math I've been meaning to do, but haven't. I didn't think the ratio between CPoints and DiLi would be so tight. Yes, 50 is way to high of a min price. The range should be more like 1-20 instead of 50-500.
Comments
Yes, and also yes for dilithium you purchase.
Cryptic will argue that It's hardly a fixed price.... you can sell 5000 C-point for 250K Dilithium or 2.5 Million Dilithium.... thats one heck of a price difference.... BUT if you look at my sig... they are valuing dilithium for MUCH lower than I would like. Having a limit other than 1 or even 5 is TRIBBLE.
My math would value one cryptic point at around 6 Dilithium which is MUCH lower than they allow. I'd be willing to sell them at a value of half of minimum wage... so 12 dilithium per C-Point...
80 C-Points will sell at 6400 Dilithium at the lowest allowed exchange rate.
At the 50 Dilithium per C-Point Exchange rate:
80 C-Point/dollar = 6400 Dilithium/Dollar.
6400/480 = 13.3repeating... 13.3 times 10 miuntes...
thats 130 minutes/Dollar... so about 50 cents per hour... of your time
At the 500 Dilithium per C-Point Exchange rate:
80 C-Points/dollar = 40000 Dilithium/Dollar.
40000/480 = 83..3repeating... 83.3 times 10 miuntes...
thats 833 minutes/Dollar... so about 7 cents per hour... of your time
So who in thie right mind wouldn't sell at 50 per C-Point because that the lowest they can go? Thats the exchange rate.... it's fixed because not selling at 50 is TRIBBLE youself...
We are currently evaluating a change where orders could only be cancelled by the character that created them, and the escrowed Dilithium from a cancelled order would be deposited directly back into that character's personal balance rather than the account wide exchange balance.
The cash buyer needs to decide the price paid in real $$ terms.
I can see 5000-10000 dilithium per C-point being closer to the mark... but there shouldnt be any upper limit artifically imposed on price per point
The window will display the current top 5 buy offer prices and top 5 sell offer prices, with quantity available at those prices, so you can always see where the market is currently priced.
Will there be any way to directly transfer Dilithium between characters (either just account wise (possibly through an account bank *nudge nudge*) or to other players)?
at least not as it stands right now.
we already have a currency in STO, Energy Credits.
EC are freely tradable among NPC vendors and with other players.
Wheras Dil, well, maybe now it canbe traded among characters on an account using the Dil/C-Point exchange, may make it viable for a player to have a single crafting toon, but still eliminates all possibility for having a fleet crafter.
absolute hard limits are being set on the Dil/C-Point exchange, which reeks of artificial currency manipulation. (we all know who is famous for that, don't we)
The economy fixes that are needed now are EC sinks. without such sinks any changes to the Dil psudeo-economy are meaningless.
You have to look at the numbers on the given cap of 500 dilihtium per point which is 600,000 dilithium for say a 1200 c point T5 ship. Which if you break that down in the conversion of 480 dilithium per emblem a ship that on holodeck is 500 emblems with that 500 cap is 1,250 emblems so in some regards you could say the cap is too high being it would take you 3 times longer to obtain a ship without paying real money for it. I hope this broadens your horizons
We will be adjusting the various limits based on our data analysis and player feedback after the exchange goes live on Tribble.
Another nail in the Fleet Crafter coffin....
With out the abiltiy to move Dilithium between characters, ie to a Fleet Crafter Character, then this further damages the Fleet Community.
What do you mean the "Top 5"?? The Top 5 cheapest? The Top 5 most expensive?
Economics 101... Supply vs Demand.
F2P players will make up the bulk of "Dilithium earners", those F2Pers dont bring in C-points to this equation..
Over time dilithium will far exceed c-points.... just as "Free" players will far exceed cash buyers.
I don't have an exact ETA, but operations is doing some extra maintenance on the machines, so the downtime will be extended a bit from just a normal patch.
You are even saying it! Cryptic sets the value of value of dilithium. Players will have no control over the value of dilithium or the time they put in to grind it.
We can give you feedback. but if you find that too low or too high. you will set value of dilithium to what you want with price controls. You are basically setting a fixed price for dilithium to C-point and to real money.
Just so long as everyone understands how messy the Tribble data will be.
Personally, I have 400 C-Points from the free stuff we got, and I need a bunch of Dilithium for a ship, so....
(BTW, I hope you guys are reading the economy feedback forum... http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=239156 )
It means the five highest priced buy offers and the five lowest priced sell offers.
seems to me that the only reason people would want a price cap removed would be to sell their dilithium at a price that would effectively be termed "way overpriced" and as such their dilithium/c-points would prob not sell at all, remember that the people buying the dilithium/c-points will look for the lowest prices, if everyone sold their c-points/dilithium for too much, no one would buy it and there would be no point in having the exchange at all, the cap is a good idea as it keeps the prices reasonable and will promote more people to use the exchange.
Absolutely not... because of the utter mismatch of in game dilithium prices vs C-store prices when you break it down to REAL money... look at my sig....
No way would I sell 500 or even 1000 dilithium as one person suggested for one c-point... it takes a time to gather and 1 C-Point is not worth that much of any of our time. I would be better off working a second job at McDonalds for that time instead and just buying the points on my own.
Everyone will be selling at 50, and I'll be happy when the limit hits 5, 10 or even 25
You are failing to see Supply vs Demand
Spending "Real" $$ for C-points is the limiting factor. The C-point holder will be looking for the Highest Dilithium per point...
You might sell at 50, but there will be far more selling at 500 because C-points are in short supply and high demand.
i know we will find out soon but i think that is fairly important to know.
The Dilithium Exchange only deals with Refined Dilithium.
I agree. I would guess it comes out to be more like 200.
by offers are we to assume a proposed completed transaction is an "offer"? Otherwise, won't the top 5 high and low always be the max/min the system allows?
So we will only be able to see the "Top 5" extremes in the market and not where the "common" market values are...