If PWE were a wise business, they would go the route likely to get them dependable donations of $15 and occasional $6.25 Micro-Transactions, rather than the occasional $6.25 Micro-Transaction.
In the West, at least, an MMO business model that encourages Subscriptions is a better than one that Nickel & Dimes you.
Crafting - This is a tough one. We recognize that some of you are not happy with the changes to crafting high end gear. We are doing our best to mitigate the issues. There are a lot of questions as why does crafting high end gear cost so much Dilithium. The bottom line is Dilithium is an important economy, and one that is tied directly into Cryptic Points (and thus real money). It is the foundation of the Free to Play economy and the games revenue model. The problem with crafting, as it works now, is that without Dilithium, a player can go onto the exchange, and get all crafting components they want, and then immediately craft a piece of gear, thus bypassing the Dilithium economy. We understand that crafting components are a time currently like Dilithium, but crafting components are nowhere near as regulated and managed as Dilithium. We recognize that this is not ideal, but we ask that you bear with us while we react to this issue. In the short term, the only change we have planned is to make some items available by crafting only, and some items only available in the Dilithium store. Those crafting items will still cost Dilithium, but this will help mitigate the two systems from competing with each other. In the end, we plan on overhauling the entire crafting system into something more tradition and interesting. More info on this in the near future.
So, if the Dilithium is ever taken out of crafting(I'm having doubts about it.), I doubt it'll happen until Season 5 or 6 launch. Seems like the sort of thing they'd want to lanch as part of a Season Update.
So, if the Dilithium is ever taken out of crafting(I'm having doubts about it.), I doubt it'll happen until Season 5 or 6 launch. Seems like the sort of thing they'd want to lanch as part of a Season Update.
I'm not impressed with the happy talk. Sorry about that, Geko. You're cool, but please tell D'Angelo he needs to do way better than sending you out on the front lines where he needs to be, apologize to us, and totally reverse the damage he did by adding to dilithium to places in the game where it has no business being.
I know you all feel strongly mate but my point is it really doesn't matter what you or your ilk think.
In a years time this game will be an STO flavoured PW game not a PW flavoured STO.
PW has 8 MMO and a massive revenue base. When a corporation buys another it does so because it thinks it can make the bought one more profitable than it is without them owning it. Otherwise they would have to pay more than the acquired company was worth to them and that just doesn't happen in business.
In this case, they think they can get more revenue from the Star Trek IP by applying the PW MMO business model than STO could make under Atari. Why else would they buy it?
You are all very earnest and are putting up some great ideas but are suffering under the sad delusion that it actually matters.
Have you notices there have been no more Path to F2P Dev blogs lately? It's because seeking feedback is more trouble than it is worth and they have decided some reality needs to set in.
STO is not a democracy. As long as they make money PW couldn't care less if the existing, long term and loyal playerbase all rage quit as long as they get more new subscribers paying more to participate. The LTS are the ones I feel sorry for. They think their initial investment and risk, which truthfully got STO past the dodgy early days, entitles them to something and they want the loyalty repaid. That LTS was paid to Atari, not PW. There is no contractual obligation to them not to fundamentally change the game and diminish their current status in the game. Unless the LTS spend a truckload in the C-Store, PW would rationally want them to quit the game as they take up expensive infrastructure with no revenue to PW. That is harsh but it is the reality. PW dodn't get the cash so owe no loyalty to LTS or to any long term subscribers. You all mean nothing except potential future revenue. Fleet Crafters are unfairly punished, but they don't provide any additional revenue, so again, who at PW will care?
Seriously, you can all rage quit and they wouldn't care. As it is you are all providing FREE beta testing to a company that you PAY MONEY TO. You are all so sadly loyal that they can pretty much do what they want and you won't quit. I love Trek, but not that much I'm afraid. If F2P sucks then I'll walk away. I don't think a lot of you could unfortunately and they are relying on that.
I will make a bet with you. Dilithium will be part of crafting when F2P goes live. In a years time, at least 75% of the player base will not be current subscribers. All this complaining, providing new suggestions, participating on Tribble, being so darn earnest and constructive on P2F"P #14 will mean nothing.
If I'm wrong, I'll log in, even if I have quit (will get a f2p account), and buy you any ship of your choice. I'm that confident.
It is sad but you'll see I'm right in the end. You can rage against me and the unfairness now, but I can't win my argument until my prediction comes true, so I won't bother. But in a year's time, lets have another chat.
However, why are you refusing to take up my advice and try a PW game? You are talking out of ignorance my friend and it will just lead to disappointment. Are you that dogmatic you won't even spend some time trying the future? You might even come up with some better suggestions from the experience.
I don't need to drink battery acid to know that it's bad for me; I can see that my spilling some on my hand, or my clothes.
I understand your points of trying to see this from PW's perspective, but I think that the changes inserted into Tribble have been a bit ham-handed and overblown, to the point where you have this threadnought going that doesn't seem like it will ever stop.
In my industry, the Finance people have a ratio calculation of what it costs to churn or attrite a customer and get new ones to replace them. Over the years, that cost has been low, and it's considered "just the cost of doing business", some noise is made about fixing it, and the business carries on BAU.
In today's economic environment, that doesn't hold water anymore.
Unless you can point me to some solid analysis, I don't think PW can truly afford to churn over freepers at enough of a rate to keep the revenue stream of this particular game viable should subs and LTSers abandon ship. Yes, the games they have now may work like that, and be sustainable and profitable...but even your post suggests that this is a new game type and market for them.
Sure, we have to become accustomed to their way of operating, and they to us...but I'm thinking that there are enough dedicated Trekkers out there that are willing to spend reasonable (and probably unreasonable) amounts of money on this game, if they feel there's an equitable ROI.
And, they determine that equitable ROI in a number of ways (crafting, PvP, STFs, social, etc.) that may never make sense on an Excel sheet, because some "warm fuzzies" can't be quantified, but in-game time gates can be, at an instinctual level.
It has been pointed out before that you need a healthy mix of sub cash (to provide a stable rev stream) and C-store buys (to provide an "R&D fund" if you will) to keep STO going (I don't have the threads handy atm or I'd post links), but I think the ultimate points are such:
1) You can't make all of the people happy all of the time, but you can make most of them happy some of the time.
2) You want your $50 mill+ plus investment back, in a reasonable timeframe, plus a profit, then you need to generate Income - Expenses to = that Profit
3) You don't generate Income if you don't have customers buying the product you're selling.
4) *insert your reasons for staying in the game, or leaving it here*
I don't expect to have my aft deck kissed because I'm a LTS; I do expect to play a game for enjoyment and relaxation.
YMMV with what you want from the game, but I think even when you edit out name-calling and general trollery, this thread (and others) very succinctly point out what people want from STO that will keep them spending money.
I-E=P
The real test for Crafting will be months after F2P launches, when Silver players will either use the system buying Cryptic Points to obtain Dilithium, or grinding for it or avoid it.
Even so, Cryptic isn't done with the F2P matrix and CaptainGeko recently acknowledged three things:
They know people are upset with crafting changes.
Introducing the temptation to buy CP's into crafting is important to Cryptic.
Crafting - This is a tough one. We recognize that some of you are not happy with the changes to crafting high end gear. We are doing our best to mitigate the issues. There are a lot of questions as why does crafting high end gear cost so much Dilithium. The bottom line is Dilithium is an important economy, and one that is tied directly into Cryptic Points (and thus real money). It is the foundation of the Free to Play economy and the games revenue model. The problem with crafting, as it works now, is that without Dilithium, a player can go onto the exchange, and get all crafting components they want, and then immediately craft a piece of gear, thus bypassing the Dilithium economy. We understand that crafting components are a time currently like Dilithium, but crafting components are nowhere near as regulated and managed as Dilithium. We recognize that this is not ideal, but we ask that you bear with us while we react to this issue. In the short term, the only change we have planned is to make some items available by crafting only, and some items only available in the Dilithium store. Those crafting items will still cost Dilithium, but this will help mitigate the two systems from competing with each other. In the end, we plan on overhauling the entire crafting system into something more tradition and interesting. More info on this in the near future.
If you read between the lines, it seems Cryptic is adamant on tying every in-game system they can except class-based gameplay and what little content they have into their Cryptic Points.
If STO could offer better class-based gameplay or a wealth of content that could be locked until bought, the STO F2P matrix may look very different, but currently it doesn't so I think we'll have to wait until 2012 to see what the results will be for STO.
You know, LoP, if we stand on a hill watching a landslide on another hill go down towards a parked car, if we turn away, we can say with a great deal of certainty that the car is going to be buried.
We don't have to take a wait & see approach, or wait until it actually hits in case something miraculous occurs, or that the landslide will magically stop, or the car fly away.
There are some times when reasonable people can make fairly specific predictions and we can all admit they're right, instead of giving every other possible or impossible possibility the benefit of the doubt.
You know Katic, obtaining the best gear in MMO's has always been an activity that cost you time and money.
So far, from the F2P Matrix and the Tribble changes Cryptic is attempting, I don't see that changing for STO either.
I just don't see that requiring people to play (i.e. grind) or pay for top gear, while offering the entire game (i.e. the exact same gameplay and content the game has) for free as the landslide you're talking about.
By the way, about your landslide example and the ability to predict events, there are some scientists who'd disagree with you about that. That's why they're busy with something called Quantum Physics.
You know Katic, obtaining the best gear in MMO's has always been an activity that cost you time and money.
So far, from the F2P Matrix and the Tribble changes Cryptic is attempting, I don't see that changing for STO either.
That's an attitude that, to me, is part of the problem. STO isn't your traditional MMO.
STO has been, since launch, a grind-lite MMO that caters to Trek fans and Casual gamers, and it has been a financial success while doing so. Shifting gears to attempt to be like other, more traditional MMOs in order to cater to a minority of overall MMO players that are OK with Grind and/or have the disposable income to pay to avoid it is such a radical shift in direction and play style for this game that it will most likely alienate the current playerbase, who, in spite of the 7 month drought of content, have remained subbed and paying, or (for LTS') playing and buying C-Store items.
To radically alter the tone of the game and abandon a loyal and profitable playerbase in favor of the prospect of temporary (statistics from the industry at-large show the average F2P player only plays for around 4 months) nonpaying players is illogical.
I just don't see that requiring people to play (i.e. grind) or pay for top gear, while offering the entire game (i.e. the exact same gameplay and content the game has) for free as the landslide you're talking about.
That's part of the problem, I've said it before, and I'll gladly point it out again here:
PWEs business model, as has been pointed out by others, is backwards.
They institute an effective pay gate (Dilithium) into nearly every kind of gear acquisition in the game. Unless you rely on drops, the Exchange, or are willing to settle for the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel gear available from EC Vendors, you have to grind Dilithium, or pay for C-Points to trade for Dilithium.
But that's not all they've done, they've only made Dilithium available by the repeatable missions that almost everybody has tired of, the very last things most people want to spend their game-time doing. They do this in order to make the Dilithium gathering process so onerous, so abysmally repetitive, that it forms a blockade that effectively encourages people to pay to avoid playing the game.
Can you think of any business type in the world that survives by people paying to avoid it's chief product? There's only one I can think of, it's called a racket, and it's illegal.
Treating STO like "just another MMO" is a mistake, and treating the playerbase like they're expendable only compounds it. Taking the poison disenfranchised players will spread among prospective F2P players into account, I don't think the game will survive more than a year after F2P hits without major walk backs of the changes currently being implemented.
Latinumber had proposed an idea in another thread, and I posted his (her?) post here and my reply for consideraton. I'm not keen about dilithium being added to crafting AT ALL. If we're stuck with it, however, this might at least be a workable alternative to keep fleet and alt crafting going.
I respectfully request that the devs do something - even short term/temporary- to allow fleet crafting. There have been numerous suggestions in this thread. I don't mind the tie in to dilithium, but there are ways of doing it without killing fleet crafting.
I think the easiest to implement would be instead of adding a dilithium cost directly, to add some other item that is required, but make that item purchasable with dilithium only. This item can then be traded to fleet crafters. This keeps crafting within the bounds of dilithium.
This would work very well for fleet crafting. You could exchange, say, 50 refined dilithium for 1 dilithium doomiflatchy. A dilithium doomiflatchy would only be usable for crafting. It could be exchanged to any other player but could not be sold on the exchange. Then, for, say, a Mark II purple item, you'd need the mats and 1 dilithium doomiflatchy. For a Mark VI purple item, you would need the mats and 3 doomiflatchies. 1 Mk XI purple lirpa, you could require the mats and 10 dilithium doomiflatchies. For purple mark XI engines, you could require the mats and 20 dilithium doomiflatchies. For an uber Mark XI purple torpedo or beam array or other ship weapon, you would need the mats and 30 dilithium doomiflatchies.
This would allow the player to obtain the dilithium in whatever manner they chose, and the dilithium is still spent, but then transfer the mats to me for crafting items. And yes, I intentionally dropped the dilithium price for Mark XI items tremendously. 32,000 dilithium for a single mark XI purple item is way too much.
A lot of people have said a lot of things about PWE and it's backward ways. However, a lot of people also play their games and spend their time and money.
I realize change is painful and every living organism wishes to avoid it rather than embrace it. However, you can't eat the cake and leave it whole. PWE and Cryptic want to expose the entire game gameplay and content to the broadest playerbase possible, for free. Since we know however that there are no free lunches, someone has to pay, both for the transition itself and the (hopefully) masses of players that will flood the server.
If STO had enough varience in gameplay styles more classes, roles, etc, like CO does for example Cryptic could theoretically segragate and package different playstyles and offer them as individual unlocks in the C-Store. That's not the case.
If STO had a wealth of content Cryptic could theoretically segragate and package different missions and story-arcs and offer those as individual content-packs in the C-Store. That too, is not the case.
What's left is the human desire to advance and prove ones' worth is above ones' peer. I know it seems vile and unfair to take advantage of that basic desire, but it would seem that PWE has done this in their other titles to such a degree that it allowed them to buy Cryptic!
At this point, what do you think Cryptic can say or do?
However, despite Cryptic's best intentions, from CaptainGeko's post I can only deduce that tying gear-obtaining activity to Dilithium is done so that Cryptic can force CP's into the market and Dilithoum out of it. In other words, Dilithium and CP's are like the two ends of a battery, without which there would be no (cash) flow.
Can STO survive as a F2P game with vanity-items only in the C-Store? I would guess both PWE and Cryptic think not.
Can STO survive as a F2P game with a fractured gameplay model parts of which only accessible through the C-Store? I would guess both PWE and Cryptic think not.
Can STO survive as a F2P game with the tiny amount of content it has now? I would guess both PWE and Cryptic think not.
So for now at least, they're doing the only thing PWE knows has worked for them before. And they're betting that people all over the world would love to visit STO every once in a while and drop a few coins in the collection box. I know of another organization in the Western world that has survived very nicely on that premise, but were I to name it in this forum I'd be infractioned into fractions.
In the end, someone has to pay the bill and any segment of the STO community you'd turn to won't want to, so PWE/Cryptic is doing their best to ensure every one pays with either time, money, or both!
A lot of people have said a lot of things about PWE and it's backward ways. However, a lot of people also play their games and spend their time and money.
I realize change is painful and every living organism wishes to avoid it rather than embrace it. However, you can't eat the cake and leave it whole. PWE and Cryptic want to expose the entire game gameplay and content to the broadest playerbase possible, for free. Since we know however that there are no free lunches, someone has to pay, both for the transition itself and the (hopefully) masses of players that will flood the server.
If STO had enough varience in gameplay styles more classes, roles, etc, like CO does for example Cryptic could theoretically segragate and package different playstyles and offer them as individual unlocks in the C-Store. That's not the case.
If STO had a wealth of content Cryptic could theoretically segragate and package different missions and story-arcs and offer those as individual content-packs in the C-Store. That too, is not the case.
What's left is the human desire to advance and prove ones' worth is above ones' peer. I know it seems vile and unfair to take advantage of that basic desire, but it would seem that PWE has done this in their other titles to such a degree that it allowed them to buy Cryptic!
At this point, what do you think Cryptic can say or do?
However, despite Cryptic's best intentions, from CaptainGeko's post I can only deduce that tying gear-obtaining activity to Dilithium is done so that Cryptic can force CP's into the market and Dilithoum out of it. In other words, Dilithium and CP's are like the two ends of a battery, without which there would be no (cash) flow.
Can STO survive as a F2P game with vanity-items only in the C-Store? I would guess both PWE and Cryptic think not.
Can STO survive as a F2P game with a fractured gameplay model parts of which only accessible through the C-Store? I would guess both PWE and Cryptic think not.
Can STO survive as a F2P game with the tiny amount of content it has now? I would guess both PWE and Cryptic think not.
So for now at least, they're doing the only thing PWE knows has worked for them before. And they're betting that people all over the world would love to visit STO every once in a while and drop a few coins in the collection box. I know of another organization in the Western world that has survived very nicely on that premise, but were I to name it in this forum I'd be infractioned into fractions.
In the end, someone has to pay the bill and any segment of the STO community you'd turn to won't want to, so PWE/Cryptic is doing their best to ensure every one pays with either time, money, or both!
Thing is,the changes make sense (sort of) for people that play this game for 'free',this is the way they can make money of the 'freebies'. However,the changes make no sense for the people that pay (subs),Cryptic already got our money and we get very little for it in return,and we are expected to pay even more on top of that. Lifers and subbers paid for 1st class,but we are lumped in economy class with the 'freebies'.
However,the changes make no sense for the people that pay (subs),Cryptic already got our money and we get very little for it in return,and we are expected to pay even more on top of that. Lifers and subbers paid for 1st class,but we are lumped in economy class with the 'freebies'.
I completely understand, believe me. It doesn't change a thing though since I doubt Cryptic can change much in their plans right now seeing as the resources STO offers for a F2P business model are very limited in comparison to other games, CO included.
At a later date, Cryptic can inject additional benefits for Gold accounts such as a higher Dilithium Refinement Cap, and other advantages that make having a Gold account more enticing, but I think PWE would outright refuse any of those ideas before they have some numbers about how F2P STO behaves.
I completely understand, believe me. It doesn't change a thing though since I doubt Cryptic can change much in their plans right now seeing as the resources STO offers for a F2P business model are very limited in comparison to other games, CO included.
At a later date, Cryptic can inject additional benefits for Gold accounts such as a higher Dilithium Refinement Cap, and other advantages that make having a Gold account more enticing, but I think PWE would outright refuse any of those ideas before they have some numbers about how F2P STO behaves.
You seem to be missing the point LoP.
Gold players, who already pay into the game every month, and LTS Golds, who have at one point or another shelled out hundreds of dollars, should not be lumped into the same "Grind or Pay" boat Silvers must be of necessity.
The point of taking the "Grind or Pay" route with a F2P game is to ensure income from the "free" players. But doing it to players who already pay is fundamentally unfair and greedy.
No out-of-game-play statistical perks, additional bank space, costume slots, character slots, etc.. Or even a possible raise (or even elimination) of the Dilithium Cap is going to make up for forcing Gold, already-paying/paid players to do the same things (Dilithium granting repeatables) over and over and over again in order to get the same (or worse, in the case of Crafting) rewards as we can currently acquire without grinding.
It's a total Game Play Experience Nerf, done completely without necessity, to players who are the best supporters of the game.
The point of taking the "Grind or Pay" route with a F2P game is to ensure income from the "free" players. But doing it to players who already pay is fundamentally unfair and greedy.
Agreed, I havent played this game in a long time, nothing new is willing me to play, nothing great is calling me to play, if they make me, a paid up but unhappy camper, grind then this, Perfect World will be dead to be no matter what it produces.
You know, I just had a thought, it doesn't happen that often, so please indulge me:
BUT
With these sweeping changes to "slow things down", ( or speed things right up to the C store),
I was wondering what kind of changes might me expect to mission rewards?
We no longer get emblems, or merit right?
Will they be tinkering with these as well?
I mean, as it is now, some missions offer some nifty rewards in so far as gear is concerned.
I'm thinking specifically about the Reman shields, the Breen set, the harpengs, the Devidian phase personal shields ect.
Are those days over?
Can we expect future mission rewards to only offer minuscule amounts of dilithium only?
For me, part of the fun of playing the weekly series was for the nifty rewards. I'll be really disapointed if the new content doesn't include them anymore. But as things are shaping up, I just don't see these continuing as
they had been, hence the reward might detract from the grind, if you see my point.
So in addition to what's going on, that we know,....... I am now wondering what sort of mission rewards might we expect in the new F2P economy?
Since none of the new content (new mission wise), is on tribble ...... My imagination's clicking away and NOT in a good way.
Gold players, who already pay into the game every month, and LTS Golds, who have at one point or another shelled out hundreds of dollars, should not be lumped into the same "Grind or Pay" boat Silvers must be of necessity.
The point of taking the "Grind or Pay" route with a F2P game is to ensure income from the "free" players. But doing it to players who already pay is fundamentally unfair and greedy.
No out-of-game-play statistical perks, additional bank space, costume slots, character slots, etc.. Or even a possible raise (or even elimination) of the Dilithium Cap is going to make up for forcing Gold, already-paying/paid players to do the same things (Dilithium granting repeatables) over and over and over again in order to get the same (or worse, in the case of Crafting) rewards as we can currently acquire without grinding.
It's a total Game Play Experience Nerf, done completely without necessity, to players who are the best supporters of the game.
I completely agree with everything here.
You know, I hear the justification that the game needs the income to produce the new content. And that message is delivered during a content drought, so it's the spoonful of sugar to make these changes go down.
But TBH, with these changes nickel and diming the player base through every aspect of the game, one has to ask, what exactly kind of fantastic content can we expect and how often, once this goes live?
Cause I gotta tell you Cryptic, after people shell out MORE AND MORE MONEY to the C store, the expectations are going to be phenomenal, and to be honest, excuses will not cut it anymore. And with all due respect, you're credibility is stretched beyond belief at the moment in this player's eyes in that department.
You know, I hear the justification that the game needs the income to produce the new content. And that message is delivered during a content drought, so it's the spoonful of sugar to make these changes go down.
But TBH, with these changes nickel and diming the player base through every aspect of the game, one has to ask, what exactly kind of fantastic content can we expect and how often, once this goes live?
Cause I gotta tell you Cryptic, after people shell out MORE AND MORE MONEY to the C store, the expectations are going to be phenomenal, and to be honest, excuses will not cut it anymore. And with all due respect, you're credibility is stretched beyond belief at the moment in this player's eyes in that department.
I remember them saying that the income from the C-Store will go back in to new content for the C-Store.
Shimale, WHAT new content? I haven't seen any for sum time.
Wel what I meant was: Content can be two things, missions (which is to me the most correct use of the word) and items (which some think is content).
They have put new stuff in to the C-Store (content to some) but as far as I can remember the income from those will be tied to making more C-Store items, not new missions.
So claiming that the C-Store transactions would be the solution to getting more funding for new missions wouldn't be correct. That is if I have all my facts right.
Dilithium is non tradable and i will not be able to continue fleet crafting, i guess the fun is over. all my crafters are very unhappy. been here since beta and i feel all my building up of resources has been a waste of time.
Wel what I meant was: Content can be two things, missions (which is to me the most correct use of the word) and items (which some think is content).
They have put new stuff in to the C-Store (content to some) but as far as I can remember the income from those will be tied to making more C-Store items, not new missions.
So claiming that the C-Store transactions would be the solution to getting more funding for new missions wouldn't be correct. That is if I have all my facts right.
new things are not content. content is actually missions and story lines. and season 5 is actually suppose to be around the corner. either they forgot, or have no intentions of doing seasons anymore.
Season 4.1 is not even on Holodeck, and some people are already talking about Season 5 (which will not bring any new "content", but more for fleet administration and handling). Season 4 was out in July of this year, and usually there is only one season per year. So, prepare to wait until next summer until we see Season 5 on Holodeck. In the meantime, we can only hope for a release of Season 4.1 still in this year, but I think it's gunna be January.
Season 4.1 is not even on Holodeck, and some people are already talking about Season 5 (which will not bring any new "content", but more for fleet administration and handling). Season 4 was out in July of this year, and usually there is only one season per year. So, prepare to wait until next summer until we see Season 5 on Holodeck. In the meantime, we can only hope for a release of Season 4.1 still in this year, but I think it's gunna be January.
If we're already up to season 4 on holodeck as of July.... that would mean 4 seasons in about 1.5 years....
If you look at this year only though, it's basically just Season 4 as a major release. Season 3 was still in last December, I think. So, the tendency goes to one big season release per year.
If you look at this year only though, it's basically just Season 4 as a major release. Season 3 was still in last December, I think. So, the tendency goes to one big season release per year.
Yet they stated that there would be 2 seasons per year and the featured episodes would fill in the gaps between those two.
Trust for anything Cryptic says about STO = 0
Hope that STO soon will again be alive and growing with more missions to do (mainly for KDF but FE too) = 0
Belief that F2P will be the solution for the grind the game has become = 0
new things are not content. content is actually missions and story lines. and season 5 is actually suppose to be around the corner. either they forgot, or have no intentions of doing seasons anymore.
New things are content. Missions are story content. This game does not lack content, it lacks and is in desperate need of story content.
New things are content. Missions are story content. This game does not lack content, it lacks and is in desperate need of story content.
There is a difference. Learn it.
there is respect and there is being a jerk. perhaps that is something you can learn when you speak with others.
dont ever talk to me in the toon you just made. i am not your friends or your mother and father. thus i will need be spoken to like a child by you or anyone on this forum.
Comments
If PWE were a wise business, they would go the route likely to get them dependable donations of $15 and occasional $6.25 Micro-Transactions, rather than the occasional $6.25 Micro-Transaction.
In the West, at least, an MMO business model that encourages Subscriptions is a better than one that Nickel & Dimes you.
So, if the Dilithium is ever taken out of crafting(I'm having doubts about it.), I doubt it'll happen until Season 5 or 6 launch. Seems like the sort of thing they'd want to lanch as part of a Season Update.
I'm not impressed with the happy talk. Sorry about that, Geko. You're cool, but please tell D'Angelo he needs to do way better than sending you out on the front lines where he needs to be, apologize to us, and totally reverse the damage he did by adding to dilithium to places in the game where it has no business being.
That is all. Thank you for your time.
I don't need to drink battery acid to know that it's bad for me; I can see that my spilling some on my hand, or my clothes.
I understand your points of trying to see this from PW's perspective, but I think that the changes inserted into Tribble have been a bit ham-handed and overblown, to the point where you have this threadnought going that doesn't seem like it will ever stop.
Sure, people are going to quit once F2P goes live, and even if the post Geko made today re: Crafting
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3844420#post3844420
happens quickly, players (customers) still feel burnt.
In my industry, the Finance people have a ratio calculation of what it costs to churn or attrite a customer and get new ones to replace them. Over the years, that cost has been low, and it's considered "just the cost of doing business", some noise is made about fixing it, and the business carries on BAU.
In today's economic environment, that doesn't hold water anymore.
Unless you can point me to some solid analysis, I don't think PW can truly afford to churn over freepers at enough of a rate to keep the revenue stream of this particular game viable should subs and LTSers abandon ship. Yes, the games they have now may work like that, and be sustainable and profitable...but even your post suggests that this is a new game type and market for them.
Sure, we have to become accustomed to their way of operating, and they to us...but I'm thinking that there are enough dedicated Trekkers out there that are willing to spend reasonable (and probably unreasonable) amounts of money on this game, if they feel there's an equitable ROI.
And, they determine that equitable ROI in a number of ways (crafting, PvP, STFs, social, etc.) that may never make sense on an Excel sheet, because some "warm fuzzies" can't be quantified, but in-game time gates can be, at an instinctual level.
It has been pointed out before that you need a healthy mix of sub cash (to provide a stable rev stream) and C-store buys (to provide an "R&D fund" if you will) to keep STO going (I don't have the threads handy atm or I'd post links), but I think the ultimate points are such:
1) You can't make all of the people happy all of the time, but you can make most of them happy some of the time.
2) You want your $50 mill+ plus investment back, in a reasonable timeframe, plus a profit, then you need to generate Income - Expenses to = that Profit
3) You don't generate Income if you don't have customers buying the product you're selling.
4) *insert your reasons for staying in the game, or leaving it here*
I don't expect to have my aft deck kissed because I'm a LTS; I do expect to play a game for enjoyment and relaxation.
YMMV with what you want from the game, but I think even when you edit out name-calling and general trollery, this thread (and others) very succinctly point out what people want from STO that will keep them spending money.
I-E=P
No one, literally, crafting is dead.
Even so, Cryptic isn't done with the F2P matrix and CaptainGeko recently acknowledged three things:
- They know people are upset with crafting changes.
- Introducing the temptation to buy CP's into crafting is important to Cryptic.
- They aren't yet done with the crafting system.
Here's what he said, word for word: If you read between the lines, it seems Cryptic is adamant on tying every in-game system they can except class-based gameplay and what little content they have into their Cryptic Points.If STO could offer better class-based gameplay or a wealth of content that could be locked until bought, the STO F2P matrix may look very different, but currently it doesn't so I think we'll have to wait until 2012 to see what the results will be for STO.
You know, LoP, if we stand on a hill watching a landslide on another hill go down towards a parked car, if we turn away, we can say with a great deal of certainty that the car is going to be buried.
We don't have to take a wait & see approach, or wait until it actually hits in case something miraculous occurs, or that the landslide will magically stop, or the car fly away.
There are some times when reasonable people can make fairly specific predictions and we can all admit they're right, instead of giving every other possible or impossible possibility the benefit of the doubt.
So far, from the F2P Matrix and the Tribble changes Cryptic is attempting, I don't see that changing for STO either.
I just don't see that requiring people to play (i.e. grind) or pay for top gear, while offering the entire game (i.e. the exact same gameplay and content the game has) for free as the landslide you're talking about.
By the way, about your landslide example and the ability to predict events, there are some scientists who'd disagree with you about that. That's why they're busy with something called Quantum Physics.
That's an attitude that, to me, is part of the problem. STO isn't your traditional MMO.
STO has been, since launch, a grind-lite MMO that caters to Trek fans and Casual gamers, and it has been a financial success while doing so. Shifting gears to attempt to be like other, more traditional MMOs in order to cater to a minority of overall MMO players that are OK with Grind and/or have the disposable income to pay to avoid it is such a radical shift in direction and play style for this game that it will most likely alienate the current playerbase, who, in spite of the 7 month drought of content, have remained subbed and paying, or (for LTS') playing and buying C-Store items.
To radically alter the tone of the game and abandon a loyal and profitable playerbase in favor of the prospect of temporary (statistics from the industry at-large show the average F2P player only plays for around 4 months) nonpaying players is illogical.
That's part of the problem, I've said it before, and I'll gladly point it out again here:
PWEs business model, as has been pointed out by others, is backwards.
They institute an effective pay gate (Dilithium) into nearly every kind of gear acquisition in the game. Unless you rely on drops, the Exchange, or are willing to settle for the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel gear available from EC Vendors, you have to grind Dilithium, or pay for C-Points to trade for Dilithium.
But that's not all they've done, they've only made Dilithium available by the repeatable missions that almost everybody has tired of, the very last things most people want to spend their game-time doing. They do this in order to make the Dilithium gathering process so onerous, so abysmally repetitive, that it forms a blockade that effectively encourages people to pay to avoid playing the game.
Can you think of any business type in the world that survives by people paying to avoid it's chief product? There's only one I can think of, it's called a racket, and it's illegal.
Treating STO like "just another MMO" is a mistake, and treating the playerbase like they're expendable only compounds it. Taking the poison disenfranchised players will spread among prospective F2P players into account, I don't think the game will survive more than a year after F2P hits without major walk backs of the changes currently being implemented.
This would work very well for fleet crafting. You could exchange, say, 50 refined dilithium for 1 dilithium doomiflatchy. A dilithium doomiflatchy would only be usable for crafting. It could be exchanged to any other player but could not be sold on the exchange. Then, for, say, a Mark II purple item, you'd need the mats and 1 dilithium doomiflatchy. For a Mark VI purple item, you would need the mats and 3 doomiflatchies. 1 Mk XI purple lirpa, you could require the mats and 10 dilithium doomiflatchies. For purple mark XI engines, you could require the mats and 20 dilithium doomiflatchies. For an uber Mark XI purple torpedo or beam array or other ship weapon, you would need the mats and 30 dilithium doomiflatchies.
This would allow the player to obtain the dilithium in whatever manner they chose, and the dilithium is still spent, but then transfer the mats to me for crafting items. And yes, I intentionally dropped the dilithium price for Mark XI items tremendously. 32,000 dilithium for a single mark XI purple item is way too much.
I'm thinking I'm going to send another letter to CBS at this point. Surely they do not want to have their IP known for "Money Grabs".
I realize change is painful and every living organism wishes to avoid it rather than embrace it. However, you can't eat the cake and leave it whole. PWE and Cryptic want to expose the entire game gameplay and content to the broadest playerbase possible, for free. Since we know however that there are no free lunches, someone has to pay, both for the transition itself and the (hopefully) masses of players that will flood the server.
If STO had enough varience in gameplay styles more classes, roles, etc, like CO does for example Cryptic could theoretically segragate and package different playstyles and offer them as individual unlocks in the C-Store. That's not the case.
If STO had a wealth of content Cryptic could theoretically segragate and package different missions and story-arcs and offer those as individual content-packs in the C-Store. That too, is not the case.
What's left is the human desire to advance and prove ones' worth is above ones' peer. I know it seems vile and unfair to take advantage of that basic desire, but it would seem that PWE has done this in their other titles to such a degree that it allowed them to buy Cryptic!
At this point, what do you think Cryptic can say or do?
Cryptic proved already they actually are listening to their customers, first in that little incident with Champions Online "expansion" that turned into an included content pack instead of a pay-to-pay expansion. And now with the changes they're making to their own design in response to our feedback.
However, despite Cryptic's best intentions, from CaptainGeko's post I can only deduce that tying gear-obtaining activity to Dilithium is done so that Cryptic can force CP's into the market and Dilithoum out of it. In other words, Dilithium and CP's are like the two ends of a battery, without which there would be no (cash) flow.
Can STO survive as a F2P game with vanity-items only in the C-Store? I would guess both PWE and Cryptic think not.
Can STO survive as a F2P game with a fractured gameplay model parts of which only accessible through the C-Store? I would guess both PWE and Cryptic think not.
Can STO survive as a F2P game with the tiny amount of content it has now? I would guess both PWE and Cryptic think not.
So for now at least, they're doing the only thing PWE knows has worked for them before. And they're betting that people all over the world would love to visit STO every once in a while and drop a few coins in the collection box. I know of another organization in the Western world that has survived very nicely on that premise, but were I to name it in this forum I'd be infractioned into fractions.
In the end, someone has to pay the bill and any segment of the STO community you'd turn to won't want to, so PWE/Cryptic is doing their best to ensure every one pays with either time, money, or both!
Thing is,the changes make sense (sort of) for people that play this game for 'free',this is the way they can make money of the 'freebies'. However,the changes make no sense for the people that pay (subs),Cryptic already got our money and we get very little for it in return,and we are expected to pay even more on top of that. Lifers and subbers paid for 1st class,but we are lumped in economy class with the 'freebies'.
At a later date, Cryptic can inject additional benefits for Gold accounts such as a higher Dilithium Refinement Cap, and other advantages that make having a Gold account more enticing, but I think PWE would outright refuse any of those ideas before they have some numbers about how F2P STO behaves.
You seem to be missing the point LoP.
Gold players, who already pay into the game every month, and LTS Golds, who have at one point or another shelled out hundreds of dollars, should not be lumped into the same "Grind or Pay" boat Silvers must be of necessity.
The point of taking the "Grind or Pay" route with a F2P game is to ensure income from the "free" players. But doing it to players who already pay is fundamentally unfair and greedy.
No out-of-game-play statistical perks, additional bank space, costume slots, character slots, etc.. Or even a possible raise (or even elimination) of the Dilithium Cap is going to make up for forcing Gold, already-paying/paid players to do the same things (Dilithium granting repeatables) over and over and over again in order to get the same (or worse, in the case of Crafting) rewards as we can currently acquire without grinding.
It's a total Game Play Experience Nerf, done completely without necessity, to players who are the best supporters of the game.
Agreed, I havent played this game in a long time, nothing new is willing me to play, nothing great is calling me to play, if they make me, a paid up but unhappy camper, grind then this, Perfect World will be dead to be no matter what it produces.
BUT
With these sweeping changes to "slow things down", ( or speed things right up to the C store),
I was wondering what kind of changes might me expect to mission rewards?
We no longer get emblems, or merit right?
Will they be tinkering with these as well?
I mean, as it is now, some missions offer some nifty rewards in so far as gear is concerned.
I'm thinking specifically about the Reman shields, the Breen set, the harpengs, the Devidian phase personal shields ect.
Are those days over?
Can we expect future mission rewards to only offer minuscule amounts of dilithium only?
For me, part of the fun of playing the weekly series was for the nifty rewards. I'll be really disapointed if the new content doesn't include them anymore. But as things are shaping up, I just don't see these continuing as
they had been, hence the reward might detract from the grind, if you see my point.
So in addition to what's going on, that we know,....... I am now wondering what sort of mission rewards might we expect in the new F2P economy?
Since none of the new content (new mission wise), is on tribble ...... My imagination's clicking away and NOT in a good way.
What other changes don't we know about YET?
I completely agree with everything here.
You know, I hear the justification that the game needs the income to produce the new content. And that message is delivered during a content drought, so it's the spoonful of sugar to make these changes go down.
But TBH, with these changes nickel and diming the player base through every aspect of the game, one has to ask, what exactly kind of fantastic content can we expect and how often, once this goes live?
Cause I gotta tell you Cryptic, after people shell out MORE AND MORE MONEY to the C store, the expectations are going to be phenomenal, and to be honest, excuses will not cut it anymore. And with all due respect, you're credibility is stretched beyond belief at the moment in this player's eyes in that department.
I remember them saying that the income from the C-Store will go back in to new content for the C-Store.
yes what new content? doff system isnt new content
Wel what I meant was: Content can be two things, missions (which is to me the most correct use of the word) and items (which some think is content).
They have put new stuff in to the C-Store (content to some) but as far as I can remember the income from those will be tied to making more C-Store items, not new missions.
So claiming that the C-Store transactions would be the solution to getting more funding for new missions wouldn't be correct. That is if I have all my facts right.
new things are not content. content is actually missions and story lines. and season 5 is actually suppose to be around the corner. either they forgot, or have no intentions of doing seasons anymore.
If we're already up to season 4 on holodeck as of July.... that would mean 4 seasons in about 1.5 years....
I'm just saying
Yet they stated that there would be 2 seasons per year and the featured episodes would fill in the gaps between those two.
Trust for anything Cryptic says about STO = 0
Hope that STO soon will again be alive and growing with more missions to do (mainly for KDF but FE too) = 0
Belief that F2P will be the solution for the grind the game has become = 0
New things are content. Missions are story content. This game does not lack content, it lacks and is in desperate need of story content.
There is a difference. Learn it.
there is respect and there is being a jerk. perhaps that is something you can learn when you speak with others.
dont ever talk to me in the toon you just made. i am not your friends or your mother and father. thus i will need be spoken to like a child by you or anyone on this forum.