Aww heck, I've just mostly bashed yours, Katic's, mine, and others ideas here into One super idea. The one crafting idea to RULE THEM ALL-er.. ahem.. excuse me, was channeling Legendary Frog there for a sec...
But yea, the only downside to this compilation is it would require rebuilding the crafting engine. While that's not a bad thing, I don't know how willing Cryptic would be to doing so
Whats happening here is so very much the opposite of smart that I have to first question my own sanity and do a double take every time a new piece of news hits because the things they are doing are just so obviously bad for the game.
Yes, Game Developers(people actually making the game) are. Game Publishers/Producers(read PWE) are generally not.
But yea, the only downside to this compilation is it would require rebuilding the crafting engine.
When i heard they had made changes to the "crafting system" i actually though that's what they did. Instead we got the mutated love child of Ferengi and Engineering. :rolleyes:
Well it's been about 11 days since players were slapped in the face by this blog.
Yes, it did turn indeed awfully quiet when it comes to this topic. As an optimist I hope this has to do with the team thinking about changes that also include player feedback on the issue. As the system is right now on tribble it is useless.
:mad:
Cryptic has not responded in any way to the outpouring of hate for the new crafting system. What are we to think, aside from Cryptic/PW going for the money grab? Unless dilithium becomes tradable, crafting will die, as very few people will be able to stomach the grind to first become a crafter, then to get enough dilithium to make anything useful. This might be Cryptic's intent, to force us all into Microtransaction Hell and buy all our high end gear through the C-store.
Interesting how this rolled out about just as Lifers were about even on spending with monthly subs. Let's see how we can extract more blood from this snow tuber.
Techinically there's 3 grinds in crafting MKXI items:
1. Mat/trace farming.
2. DR farming.
3. Forced mission track.
A player can't even get the highest mats from clusters until they hit B'Tran which is in Gamma Orionis. In the new system a player can't get to Gamma Orionis until they finish all missions in Klingon, Romulan, and Cardassian space whether they like them or not.
For now it looks like every character someone makes will have to go through the same thing every time they're made. This game is becoming less and less fun as i take a look at Tribble.
... BTW, since it was asked, yes we are still working on crafting. The current implementation is not final and we hope to improve it to your likely. I dont want to get into details because this is not the right place, and frankly we are not done. We will try to get you the information as soon as we have more detials.
I hope they're removing Dilithium completely, or adding it as an optional fee, if you're missing samples or traces, like suggested in this thread.
Another take on a GOOD crafting system. I posted this in another thread but it's also, maybe even more, relevant here.
First: The only way dilithium would be viable in craftig would be a via a vendor who sells rare schematics for DL that can't be obtained ay other way.
And they need to be tradeble and a bit cheaper.
The crafting process itself should not require DL so we can gift the items for EC or new schematics.
Second: I also want the crafting system linked to the Doff system. I would imagine using a special kind of Doff that is getting better in crafting proficiency every time he is crafting.
The doff could be a reusable "component" to the process. The better the Doff quality, the better the product.
There could be different Doffs for different kinds of items.
Weapons Engineers
Shield Technicians
Armory Maintenance Officers
You get the picture.
Since you probably can't upgrade a Doff that easily, reaching a new tier in, for example, Weapons Technology you get a special crafting assigment you sent your Doff on, that removes the old white Doff and gets you a green one instead.
This would be completely seperate from the standard doff system but utilizes the same tech.
To make people still visit MA (in this system it would make sense to be able to craft on the ship), you should put the rare schematics vendor there and only make the very rare crafting assigments available there as well.
Once you initiate the crafting process you can leave and depending on the Mk level of the item it should take somewhere between a few minutes and 2-3 days to craft the item.
You know, its so funny to look through this forum, every post i see says "No Dilithuim in crafting!" Then I listen to an interview where cryptic says they listen to us and care so much, and here we are telling them what we want, and giving them Sooooo many different ideas and it all falls on deaf ears. Makes me wonder even more why Dan Stahl left. Its like they think, "well were going f2p now, we don't have to listen to you anymore, what do we care". Turbine dd the same hen they went f2p. Its the impression I get anyway. Its like we are the ones who will fill the bill for all the f2pers coming soon, and instead of focusing on them and how to make money off them and now to entice them to subscribe, its the subscribers who will pay the most.
Its a shame cuz some ideas are really good. The idea to have the f2pers only have to use dilithuim sounds better but still they need to just remove it from crafting. I am all for spending dilithium for my ship, on actual upgrades or fun things you can add from the inside of your ship. Maybe a motivator for cryptic can be to let us say, add a holodeck on our ship and put dilithium into the ship to build it. I don't know, its just sad that we have to give them all the ideas and they cant. They can see were all not happy at all about the dilithium in crafting and I wish they would try to make it right and stop ignoring us.
Ah, but don't forget, some of these horrible ideas aren't just CRYPTIC, but Perfect World as well, and have fully convinced them that this is what we want. CRYPTIC, you made the mistake of joining PWE and I made the mistake of paying for Lifetime Memebership when STO launched. Unlike you though, I can leave whenever I want.
Personally I liked STO how it was, instead of giving us the content we'd been waiting for and wanted you give us.... FTP.... Sure, there are some nice new features going in. The duty officer system is nice, But what happened to the next episode series we were supposed to get? Or the Klingon content we were promised, or the "More to come" (Rewards for Lifetime members) that we never saw. Sounds like FTP was an excuse to not give us anything by claiming this took up all you resources.. I don't buy that.
And with SWToR getting closer by the day I may drop support of STO altogether, STO was looking to be a good game but all the constant delays and bugs have been a waste of my time and money, now don't get me wrong, I do "Like" STO, but unless you start giving "us" the players what you've said we were getting, people, myself included, will start looking elsewhere for games.
I think that what some of you have suggested about having our DOffs doing the crafting is a great idea and we can trust Heretic to make it work. They have already said that we are going to be able to craft on our ships. Scrap that and make it a doff assignment. If the mission is a success it gets an additional bonus like [DMG] and if it is a critical success it gets 2 additional bonuses.
Then depending on which Mk the item is and if it is a officer item or ship item the timers for them missions could be increased or decreased. With a Mk 1 common item taking minutes and a Mk XII very rare item a couple of days.
Turn Memory Alpha in to a research facility where we can spend time to research new schematics that we then can store in our replicators.
As this thread seems to have become the lightning rod for everything people don't like about the proposed changes, here is a suggestion:
1. Go play a Perfect World Game during the F2P beta
2. See how you enjoy the levelling, the content, the crafting, the whole experience
3. Participate in the F2P model that will inevitably be how STO is run as a F2P'er and maybe even pump up some cash
4. If you have time, become a subscriber for a month to see the difference
Whilst the fantasy games in the PW stable are probably not everyone's cup of tea (personally I am not a fan but I managed to put that aside), spending a month or two levelling to cap in a PW game is probably the best way to determine whether you want to continue STO or not.
As I said in an earlier post, PW really don't care what the old subscriber base think. They'd like to keep us but the Atari / Cryptic model was not profitable and we can't go back to the old way of things.
If you play the PW game and you decide that the positives outweigh the negaitves then you will stick around. If you are repelled by the gaming (bearing in mind they have no Sci Fi games at the moment so you will have to adjust for your bias against fantasy games but you are all adults and I'm sure can make the right judgement) then it is probably time to say your goodbyes and find another SciFi game.
Whining and moaning on Dev Blog #14 seems to be good therapy for a lot of people but again as I said earlier, it will make no difference whatsoever. PW know a vocal minority (maybe even majority) of the small existing subscriber base hate the crafting changes but if you go play a PW game you will see that this is exactly how they make money.
Right or Wrong, this is what is coming, don't fool yourselves.
However, how can you decide whether you will really like it only by playing the new model.
I picked Perfect World itself. I'm halfway to level cap and to be honest there are some things I like and quite a lot of things I don't like. But I'll wait until I'm at the cap to make a judgement. I haven't subscribed yet but will do so shortly. Personally, I think it will improve some weak areas in STO such as PVP and content but I am not liking the P2W aspect. But I may think differently at the cap.
So can I humbly suggest we all stop whining and try the future? Surely it is a better approach than this endless thread?
@Nightjudge--A bad decision about crafting does not equal a bad decision about STO as a whole. I've never said I hate STO. If I did, I wouldn't still be playing it. I certainly wouldn't waste time posting here suggesting alternatives.
However, the facts remain:
1. Adding dilithium to crafting is a terrible idea. I've stated any number of times why it's bad. Go back to the first page where I posted why it was bad. These are valid reasons, not whining. The potential for abuse cannot be ignored. The damage it will do to crafting for alts and crafting for fleets cannot be ignored.
2. This issue is getting ignored by developers except for a couple bread crumbs dropped in a podcast and in another unrelated thread for the community to gobble up, hoping it means a change away from dilithium-for-crafting.
I am not naive about PW's need to make money. They spent a lot of money to acquire Cryptic, and they need to recoup that investment. They're going to monetize the hell out of this game to do it. I found several ways that Cryptic/PW could monetize crafting without involving dilithium. Other people have found similar methods that would be a win for both the company and the players.
The question is this: Will Cryptic care enough to incorporate some of these ideas into crafting, or will they ignore it?
People continue to post in this thread because the issue is that important to them. That in itself should be a sign of how strongly a lot of us feel about this problem.
Turn Memory Alpha in to a research facility where we can spend time to research new schematics that we then can store in our replicators.
What if memory alpha were a place you could run research missions via Doff that would help you have a chance at recruiting rare fabrication Doffs ... or ... a place where you can refine a certain number of common data samples into rare particle traces ... or ... a place where you could trade in a fixed number of samples for dilithium ... or ... all of the above.
EDIT --- How about this ... Craft on your ship via the Doff system with crafting missions as described by others, taking time (but NO dilithium tax). Craft on Memory Alpha for fast results, but requires dilithium.
As this thread seems to have become the lightning rod for everything people don't like about the proposed changes, here is a suggestion:
1. Go play a Perfect World Game during the F2P beta
2. See how you enjoy the leveling, the content, the crafting, the whole experience
3. Participate in the F2P model that will inevitably be how STO is run as a F2P'er and maybe even pump up some cash
4. If you have time, become a subscriber for a month to see the difference
Whilst the fantasy games in the PW stable are probably not everyone's cup of tea (personally I am not a fan but I managed to put that aside), spending a month or two leveling to cap in a PW game is probably the best way to determine whether you want to continue STO or not.
As I said in an earlier post, PW really don't care what the old subscriber base think. They'd like to keep us but the Atari / Cryptic model was not profitable and we can't go back to the old way of things.
If you play the PW game and you decide that the positives outweigh the negatives then you will stick around. If you are repelled by the gaming (bearing in mind they have no Sci Fi games at the moment so you will have to adjust for your bias against fantasy games but you are all adults and I'm sure can make the right judgment) then it is probably time to say your goodbyes and find another SciFi game.
Whining and moaning on Dev Blog #14 seems to be good therapy for a lot of people but again as I said earlier, it will make no difference whatsoever. PW know a vocal minority (maybe even majority) of the small existing subscriber base hate the crafting changes but if you go play a PW game you will see that this is exactly how they make money.
Right or Wrong, this is what is coming, don't fool yourselves.
However, how can you decide whether you will really like it only by playing the new model.
I picked Perfect World itself. I'm halfway to level cap and to be honest there are some things I like and quite a lot of things I don't like. But I'll wait until I'm at the cap to make a judgment. I haven't subscribed yet but will do so shortly. Personally, I think it will improve some weak areas in STO such as PVP and content but I am not liking the P2W aspect. But I may think differently at the cap.
So can I humbly suggest we all stop whining and try the future? Surely it is a better approach than this endless thread?
I know you all feel strongly mate but my point is it really doesn't matter what you or your ilk think.
In a years time this game will be an STO flavoured PW game not a PW flavoured STO.
PW has 8 MMO and a massive revenue base. When a corporation buys another it does so because it thinks it can make the bought one more profitable than it is without them owning it. Otherwise they would have to pay more than the acquired company was worth to them and that just doesn't happen in business.
In this case, they think they can get more revenue from the Star Trek IP by applying the PW MMO business model than STO could make under Atari. Why else would they buy it?
You are all very earnest and are putting up some great ideas but are suffering under the sad delusion that it actually matters.
Have you notices there have been no more Path to F2P Dev blogs lately? It's because seeking feedback is more trouble than it is worth and they have decided some reality needs to set in.
STO is not a democracy. As long as they make money PW couldn't care less if the existing, long term and loyal playerbase all rage quit as long as they get more new subscribers paying more to participate. The LTS are the ones I feel sorry for. They think their initial investment and risk, which truthfully got STO past the dodgy early days, entitles them to something and they want the loyalty repaid. That LTS was paid to Atari, not PW. There is no contractual obligation to them not to fundamentally change the game and diminish their current status in the game. Unless the LTS spend a truckload in the C-Store, PW would rationally want them to quit the game as they take up expensive infrastructure with no revenue to PW. That is harsh but it is the reality. PW dodn't get the cash so owe no loyalty to LTS or to any long term subscribers. You all mean nothing except potential future revenue. Fleet Crafters are unfairly punished, but they don't provide any additional revenue, so again, who at PW will care?
Seriously, you can all rage quit and they wouldn't care. As it is you are all providing FREE beta testing to a company that you PAY MONEY TO. You are all so sadly loyal that they can pretty much do what they want and you won't quit. I love Trek, but not that much I'm afraid. If F2P sucks then I'll walk away. I don't think a lot of you could unfortunately and they are relying on that.
I will make a bet with you. Dilithium will be part of crafting when F2P goes live. In a years time, at least 75% of the player base will not be current subscribers. All this complaining, providing new suggestions, participating on Tribble, being so darn earnest and constructive on P2F"P #14 will mean nothing.
If I'm wrong, I'll log in, even if I have quit (will get a f2p account), and buy you any ship of your choice. I'm that confident.
It is sad but you'll see I'm right in the end. You can rage against me and the unfairness now, but I can't win my argument until my prediction comes true, so I won't bother. But in a year's time, lets have another chat.
However, why are you refusing to take up my advice and try a PW game? You are talking out of ignorance my friend and it will just lead to disappointment. Are you that dogmatic you won't even spend some time trying the future? You might even come up with some better suggestions from the experience.
I know you all feel strongly mate but my point is it really doesn't matter what you or your ilk think.
In a years time this game will be an STO flavoured PW game not a PW flavoured STO.
PW has 8 MMO and a massive revenue base. When a corporation buys another it does so because it thinks it can make the bought one more profitable than it is without them owning it. Otherwise they would have to pay more than the acquired company was worth to them and that just doesn't happen in business.
In this case, they think they can get more revenue from the Star Trek IP by applying the PW MMO business model than STO could make under Atari. Why else would they buy it?
You are all very earnest and are putting up some great ideas but are suffering under the sad delusion that it actually matters.
Have you notices there have been no more Path to F2P Dev blogs lately? It's because seeking feedback is more trouble than it is worth and they have decided some reality needs to set in.
STO is not a democracy. As long as they make money PW couldn't care less if the existing, long term and loyal playerbase all rage quit as long as they get more new subscribers paying more to participate. The LTS are the ones I feel sorry for. They think their initial investment and risk, which truthfully got STO past the dodgy early days, entitles them to something and they want the loyalty repaid. That LTS was paid to Atari, not PW. There is no contractual obligation to them not to fundamentally change the game and diminish their current status in the game. Unless the LTS spend a truckload in the C-Store, PW would rationally want them to quit the game as they take up expensive infrastructure with no revenue to PW. That is harsh but it is the reality. PW dodn't get the cash so owe no loyalty to LTS or to any long term subscribers. You all mean nothing except potential future revenue. Fleet Crafters are unfairly punished, but they don't provide any additional revenue, so again, who at PW will care?
Seriously, you can all rage quit and they wouldn't care. As it is you are all providing FREE beta testing to a company that you PAY MONEY TO. You are all so sadly loyal that they can pretty much do what they want and you won't quit. I love Trek, but not that much I'm afraid. If F2P sucks then I'll walk away. I don't think a lot of you could unfortunately and they are relying on that.
I will make a bet with you. Dilithium will be part of crafting when F2P goes live. In a years time, at least 75% of the player base will not be current subscribers. All this complaining, providing new suggestions, participating on Tribble, being so darn earnest and constructive on P2F"P #14 will mean nothing.
If I'm wrong, I'll log in, even if I have quit (will get a f2p account), and buy you any ship of your choice. I'm that confident.
It is sad but you'll see I'm right in the end. You can rage against me and the unfairness now, but I can't win my argument until my prediction comes true, so I won't bother. But in a year's time, lets have another chat.
However, why are you refusing to take up my advice and try a PW game? You are talking out of ignorance my friend and it will just lead to disappointment. Are you that dogmatic you won't even spend some time trying the future? You might even come up with some better suggestions from the experience.
I'm here till They turn off the lights...
LTS and all that such...
Though whether I'll be Playing or Not..., is another matter.
They say they're still working on crafting. Until they have something new to show us they wont say anything more. Hopefully they looked at the feedback and genuine ideas to help them create a better system than they have now.
I hope nightjudge is wrong about STO becoming a trek flavored PWE game rather than a PW flavored Trek game. I was under the impression that PW bought Cryptic so they could have a better foothold in the western market, and to me that means they use some of what Cryptic does that works with the western audience. If that turns out not to be the case, and STO becomes a game that demands months of grind or spending hundreds of dollars per character just to get by, well there is TOR, Guild Wars 2, and Diablo 3 waiting in the wings. One of them will be more to my liking in that case I'm sure.
But the other alternative that I'm doing now is to get all my alts to the top rank with everyone getting their free VA ship before f2p comes. That way my need for the microtransaction stuff will be minimal and my lifetime sub will allow me to keep coming back for any new stf gear and featured episodes that come along. I'll have everything I can craft already made before the dilithium requirement comes to holodeck.
I think everyone should be doing that too. Paying to test while they make everything much harder to do later instead of getting it now is foolish in my opinion.
As I said in an earlier post, PW really don't care what the old subscriber base think. They'd like to keep us but the Atari / Cryptic model was not profitable and we can't go back to the old way of things.
Here's the thing, the Atari/Cryptic model was profitable, the problem is it wasn't profitable enough for PWEs tastes.
Cryptic was propping up Atari, making it valuable enough for PWE to pay Atari enough to pay off Ataris debts to acquire it.
Then PWE decided that rather than make their return on investment over time, they would order that nearly everything in the game be monetized in one way or another in order to recoup their Investment as quickly as possible, the health of the game and happiness of the players be damned.
Here's the thing, the Atari/Cryptic model was profitable, the problem is it wasn't profitable enough for PWEs tastes.
Cryptic was propping up Atari, making it valuable enough for PWE to pay Atari enough to pay off Ataris debts to acquire it.
Then PWE decided that rather than make their return on investment over time, they would order that nearly everything in the game be monetized in one way or another in order to recoup their Investment as quickly as possible, the health of the game and happiness of the players be damned.
As far as I know this is the first time PWE is converting an existing MMO to F2P,all of the games they made were F2P from the get go,PWE has no experience with subscribers at all.Factor in an IP with die hard fans,that have proven in the past they can move mountains if need be.(brains and money)
If PWE stays the course they are plotting now....it will lead to a disaster for Cryptic,the sheer amount of bad press Star Trek fans can,and will,generate will have a far greater impact than SOE's NGE ever had.
I know Cryptic can't give out full details right now but it can't be hard to just come out and say "We relise letting Dilithium within 5 light years of crafting is dumb, we havn't got the details now but Dilithium won't be in crafting".
That is unless the intention isn't actually to make this aspect of the game better but instead some ulterior motive.
Not a huge fan of crafting with dilithium honestly. I see how they "feel" it would make crafting more rewarding, but honestly all it is doing is turning the casual player away from even attempting crafting. Yes I throw myself into the casual player area. Mostly because i can't spend hours upon endless hours grinding away.
I found it rewarding enough crafting with the way it was. I was proud of what i accomplished getting my crafting up to max level and now I help my fleet-mates craft their equipment if they don't want to spend the time to work their own crafting up. It took me a very long time to max my crafting on both my Fed and Klingon toons.
In all honesty it should be a choice.
1) Spend the time grinding dilithium to buy the equipment.
2) Spend the time and grind the traces to craft the equipment.
It does take a lot of time and grinding to get the rare partical traces needed for the top end gear. If you do want to add dilithium to crafting I do like one of the suggestions I read. Make it cost the rare partical trace OR dilithium for the rare gear. Using both is just overkill in my opinion.
As far as I know this is the first time PWE is converting an existing MMO to F2P,all of the games they made were F2P from the get go,PWE has no experience with subscribers at all.Factor in an IP with die hard fans,that have proven in the past they can move mountains if need be.(brains and money)
If PWE stays the course they are plotting now....it will lead to a disaster for Cryptic,the sheer amount of bad press Star Trek fans can,and will,generate will have a far greater impact than SOE's NGE ever had.
My advice to PWE : look before you leap.
It might be PWE's first time, but it is not Cryptic's first time. Learn from Champions Online. Look at what went wrong there and what did work then apply what worked to STO.
Just look at how they can de-construct items in to crafting material. Something surely a replicator would be more then capable of doing. It's been in Champions from day 1, but in STO we can only get EC for items put in to the replicator.
In Champions you can be rewarded clothing unlock items from missions that are account wide and can be gifted, traded and even sold on the exchange. Have we had one single item like that in STO? Is there enough material to make such items in the Star Trek universe, sure there are.
The difference between Gold and Silver players is much larger in Champions making people want to subscribe to be able to get access to all those cool things. On STO they are almost the same.
It might be PWE's first time, but it is not Cryptic's first time. Learn from Champions Online. Look at what went wrong there and what did work then apply what worked to STO.
Just look at how they can de-construct items in to crafting material. Something surely a replicator would be more then capable of doing. It's been in Champions from day 1, but in STO we can only get EC for items put in to the replicator.
In Champions you can be rewarded clothing unlock items from missions that are account wide and can be gifted, traded and even sold on the exchange. Have we had one single item like that in STO? Is there enough material to make such items in the Star Trek universe, sure there are.
The difference between Gold and Silver players is much larger in Champions making people want to subscribe to be able to get access to all those cool things. On STO they are almost the same.
Comments
Aww heck, I've just mostly bashed yours, Katic's, mine, and others ideas here into One super idea. The one crafting idea to RULE THEM ALL-er.. ahem.. excuse me, was channeling Legendary Frog there for a sec...
But yea, the only downside to this compilation is it would require rebuilding the crafting engine. While that's not a bad thing, I don't know how willing Cryptic would be to doing so
True.
True dat.
Mental addendum to my world domination plans; develop **and** publish my games interdependently.
Hahaha! Love it
When i heard they had made changes to the "crafting system" i actually though that's what they did. Instead we got the mutated love child of Ferengi and Engineering. :rolleyes:
Yes, it did turn indeed awfully quiet when it comes to this topic. As an optimist I hope this has to do with the team thinking about changes that also include player feedback on the issue. As the system is right now on tribble it is useless.
Cryptic has not responded in any way to the outpouring of hate for the new crafting system. What are we to think, aside from Cryptic/PW going for the money grab? Unless dilithium becomes tradable, crafting will die, as very few people will be able to stomach the grind to first become a crafter, then to get enough dilithium to make anything useful. This might be Cryptic's intent, to force us all into Microtransaction Hell and buy all our high end gear through the C-store.
Interesting how this rolled out about just as Lifers were about even on spending with monthly subs. Let's see how we can extract more blood from this snow tuber.
"Could ya help out an old golder? Fell down ye ol 14 shaft and broke me... somethin er another."
1. Mat/trace farming.
2. DR farming.
3. Forced mission track.
A player can't even get the highest mats from clusters until they hit B'Tran which is in Gamma Orionis. In the new system a player can't get to Gamma Orionis until they finish all missions in Klingon, Romulan, and Cardassian space whether they like them or not.
For now it looks like every character someone makes will have to go through the same thing every time they're made. This game is becoming less and less fun as i take a look at Tribble.
First: The only way dilithium would be viable in craftig would be a via a vendor who sells rare schematics for DL that can't be obtained ay other way.
And they need to be tradeble and a bit cheaper.
The crafting process itself should not require DL so we can gift the items for EC or new schematics.
Second: I also want the crafting system linked to the Doff system. I would imagine using a special kind of Doff that is getting better in crafting proficiency every time he is crafting.
The doff could be a reusable "component" to the process. The better the Doff quality, the better the product.
There could be different Doffs for different kinds of items.
Weapons Engineers
Shield Technicians
Armory Maintenance Officers
You get the picture.
Since you probably can't upgrade a Doff that easily, reaching a new tier in, for example, Weapons Technology you get a special crafting assigment you sent your Doff on, that removes the old white Doff and gets you a green one instead.
This would be completely seperate from the standard doff system but utilizes the same tech.
To make people still visit MA (in this system it would make sense to be able to craft on the ship), you should put the rare schematics vendor there and only make the very rare crafting assigments available there as well.
Once you initiate the crafting process you can leave and depending on the Mk level of the item it should take somewhere between a few minutes and 2-3 days to craft the item.
Thoughts?
Its a shame cuz some ideas are really good. The idea to have the f2pers only have to use dilithuim sounds better but still they need to just remove it from crafting. I am all for spending dilithium for my ship, on actual upgrades or fun things you can add from the inside of your ship. Maybe a motivator for cryptic can be to let us say, add a holodeck on our ship and put dilithium into the ship to build it. I don't know, its just sad that we have to give them all the ideas and they cant. They can see were all not happy at all about the dilithium in crafting and I wish they would try to make it right and stop ignoring us.
Personally I liked STO how it was, instead of giving us the content we'd been waiting for and wanted you give us.... FTP.... Sure, there are some nice new features going in. The duty officer system is nice, But what happened to the next episode series we were supposed to get? Or the Klingon content we were promised, or the "More to come" (Rewards for Lifetime members) that we never saw. Sounds like FTP was an excuse to not give us anything by claiming this took up all you resources.. I don't buy that.
And with SWToR getting closer by the day I may drop support of STO altogether, STO was looking to be a good game but all the constant delays and bugs have been a waste of my time and money, now don't get me wrong, I do "Like" STO, but unless you start giving "us" the players what you've said we were getting, people, myself included, will start looking elsewhere for games.
Then depending on which Mk the item is and if it is a officer item or ship item the timers for them missions could be increased or decreased. With a Mk 1 common item taking minutes and a Mk XII very rare item a couple of days.
Turn Memory Alpha in to a research facility where we can spend time to research new schematics that we then can store in our replicators.
As this thread seems to have become the lightning rod for everything people don't like about the proposed changes, here is a suggestion:
1. Go play a Perfect World Game during the F2P beta
2. See how you enjoy the levelling, the content, the crafting, the whole experience
3. Participate in the F2P model that will inevitably be how STO is run as a F2P'er and maybe even pump up some cash
4. If you have time, become a subscriber for a month to see the difference
Whilst the fantasy games in the PW stable are probably not everyone's cup of tea (personally I am not a fan but I managed to put that aside), spending a month or two levelling to cap in a PW game is probably the best way to determine whether you want to continue STO or not.
As I said in an earlier post, PW really don't care what the old subscriber base think. They'd like to keep us but the Atari / Cryptic model was not profitable and we can't go back to the old way of things.
If you play the PW game and you decide that the positives outweigh the negaitves then you will stick around. If you are repelled by the gaming (bearing in mind they have no Sci Fi games at the moment so you will have to adjust for your bias against fantasy games but you are all adults and I'm sure can make the right judgement) then it is probably time to say your goodbyes and find another SciFi game.
Whining and moaning on Dev Blog #14 seems to be good therapy for a lot of people but again as I said earlier, it will make no difference whatsoever. PW know a vocal minority (maybe even majority) of the small existing subscriber base hate the crafting changes but if you go play a PW game you will see that this is exactly how they make money.
Right or Wrong, this is what is coming, don't fool yourselves.
However, how can you decide whether you will really like it only by playing the new model.
I picked Perfect World itself. I'm halfway to level cap and to be honest there are some things I like and quite a lot of things I don't like. But I'll wait until I'm at the cap to make a judgement. I haven't subscribed yet but will do so shortly. Personally, I think it will improve some weak areas in STO such as PVP and content but I am not liking the P2W aspect. But I may think differently at the cap.
So can I humbly suggest we all stop whining and try the future? Surely it is a better approach than this endless thread?
I'll leave it to you all to decide.
However, the facts remain:
1. Adding dilithium to crafting is a terrible idea. I've stated any number of times why it's bad. Go back to the first page where I posted why it was bad. These are valid reasons, not whining. The potential for abuse cannot be ignored. The damage it will do to crafting for alts and crafting for fleets cannot be ignored.
2. This issue is getting ignored by developers except for a couple bread crumbs dropped in a podcast and in another unrelated thread for the community to gobble up, hoping it means a change away from dilithium-for-crafting.
I am not naive about PW's need to make money. They spent a lot of money to acquire Cryptic, and they need to recoup that investment. They're going to monetize the hell out of this game to do it. I found several ways that Cryptic/PW could monetize crafting without involving dilithium. Other people have found similar methods that would be a win for both the company and the players.
The question is this: Will Cryptic care enough to incorporate some of these ideas into crafting, or will they ignore it?
People continue to post in this thread because the issue is that important to them. That in itself should be a sign of how strongly a lot of us feel about this problem.
What if memory alpha were a place you could run research missions via Doff that would help you have a chance at recruiting rare fabrication Doffs ... or ... a place where you can refine a certain number of common data samples into rare particle traces ... or ... a place where you could trade in a fixed number of samples for dilithium ... or ... all of the above.
EDIT --- How about this ... Craft on your ship via the Doff system with crafting missions as described by others, taking time (but NO dilithium tax). Craft on Memory Alpha for fast results, but requires dilithium.
That way ... win, win.
It's becoming the INFAMOUS BLOG-THREAD #14...
...IBT#14... kinda has a bit of a ring to it...
Where were You when IBT#14 hit ???
<chuckle>
In a years time this game will be an STO flavoured PW game not a PW flavoured STO.
PW has 8 MMO and a massive revenue base. When a corporation buys another it does so because it thinks it can make the bought one more profitable than it is without them owning it. Otherwise they would have to pay more than the acquired company was worth to them and that just doesn't happen in business.
In this case, they think they can get more revenue from the Star Trek IP by applying the PW MMO business model than STO could make under Atari. Why else would they buy it?
You are all very earnest and are putting up some great ideas but are suffering under the sad delusion that it actually matters.
Have you notices there have been no more Path to F2P Dev blogs lately? It's because seeking feedback is more trouble than it is worth and they have decided some reality needs to set in.
STO is not a democracy. As long as they make money PW couldn't care less if the existing, long term and loyal playerbase all rage quit as long as they get more new subscribers paying more to participate. The LTS are the ones I feel sorry for. They think their initial investment and risk, which truthfully got STO past the dodgy early days, entitles them to something and they want the loyalty repaid. That LTS was paid to Atari, not PW. There is no contractual obligation to them not to fundamentally change the game and diminish their current status in the game. Unless the LTS spend a truckload in the C-Store, PW would rationally want them to quit the game as they take up expensive infrastructure with no revenue to PW. That is harsh but it is the reality. PW dodn't get the cash so owe no loyalty to LTS or to any long term subscribers. You all mean nothing except potential future revenue. Fleet Crafters are unfairly punished, but they don't provide any additional revenue, so again, who at PW will care?
Seriously, you can all rage quit and they wouldn't care. As it is you are all providing FREE beta testing to a company that you PAY MONEY TO. You are all so sadly loyal that they can pretty much do what they want and you won't quit. I love Trek, but not that much I'm afraid. If F2P sucks then I'll walk away. I don't think a lot of you could unfortunately and they are relying on that.
I will make a bet with you. Dilithium will be part of crafting when F2P goes live. In a years time, at least 75% of the player base will not be current subscribers. All this complaining, providing new suggestions, participating on Tribble, being so darn earnest and constructive on P2F"P #14 will mean nothing.
If I'm wrong, I'll log in, even if I have quit (will get a f2p account), and buy you any ship of your choice. I'm that confident.
It is sad but you'll see I'm right in the end. You can rage against me and the unfairness now, but I can't win my argument until my prediction comes true, so I won't bother. But in a year's time, lets have another chat.
However, why are you refusing to take up my advice and try a PW game? You are talking out of ignorance my friend and it will just lead to disappointment. Are you that dogmatic you won't even spend some time trying the future? You might even come up with some better suggestions from the experience.
I'm here till They turn off the lights...
LTS and all that such...
Though whether I'll be Playing or Not..., is another matter.
I hope nightjudge is wrong about STO becoming a trek flavored PWE game rather than a PW flavored Trek game. I was under the impression that PW bought Cryptic so they could have a better foothold in the western market, and to me that means they use some of what Cryptic does that works with the western audience. If that turns out not to be the case, and STO becomes a game that demands months of grind or spending hundreds of dollars per character just to get by, well there is TOR, Guild Wars 2, and Diablo 3 waiting in the wings. One of them will be more to my liking in that case I'm sure.
But the other alternative that I'm doing now is to get all my alts to the top rank with everyone getting their free VA ship before f2p comes. That way my need for the microtransaction stuff will be minimal and my lifetime sub will allow me to keep coming back for any new stf gear and featured episodes that come along. I'll have everything I can craft already made before the dilithium requirement comes to holodeck.
I think everyone should be doing that too. Paying to test while they make everything much harder to do later instead of getting it now is foolish in my opinion.
Here's the thing, the Atari/Cryptic model was profitable, the problem is it wasn't profitable enough for PWEs tastes.
Cryptic was propping up Atari, making it valuable enough for PWE to pay Atari enough to pay off Ataris debts to acquire it.
Then PWE decided that rather than make their return on investment over time, they would order that nearly everything in the game be monetized in one way or another in order to recoup their Investment as quickly as possible, the health of the game and happiness of the players be damned.
As far as I know this is the first time PWE is converting an existing MMO to F2P,all of the games they made were F2P from the get go,PWE has no experience with subscribers at all.Factor in an IP with die hard fans,that have proven in the past they can move mountains if need be.(brains and money)
If PWE stays the course they are plotting now....it will lead to a disaster for Cryptic,the sheer amount of bad press Star Trek fans can,and will,generate will have a far greater impact than SOE's NGE ever had.
My advice to PWE : look before you leap.
I know Cryptic can't give out full details right now but it can't be hard to just come out and say "We relise letting Dilithium within 5 light years of crafting is dumb, we havn't got the details now but Dilithium won't be in crafting".
That is unless the intention isn't actually to make this aspect of the game better but instead some ulterior motive.
I found it rewarding enough crafting with the way it was. I was proud of what i accomplished getting my crafting up to max level and now I help my fleet-mates craft their equipment if they don't want to spend the time to work their own crafting up. It took me a very long time to max my crafting on both my Fed and Klingon toons.
In all honesty it should be a choice.
1) Spend the time grinding dilithium to buy the equipment.
2) Spend the time and grind the traces to craft the equipment.
It does take a lot of time and grinding to get the rare partical traces needed for the top end gear. If you do want to add dilithium to crafting I do like one of the suggestions I read. Make it cost the rare partical trace OR dilithium for the rare gear. Using both is just overkill in my opinion.
It might be PWE's first time, but it is not Cryptic's first time. Learn from Champions Online. Look at what went wrong there and what did work then apply what worked to STO.
Just look at how they can de-construct items in to crafting material. Something surely a replicator would be more then capable of doing. It's been in Champions from day 1, but in STO we can only get EC for items put in to the replicator.
In Champions you can be rewarded clothing unlock items from missions that are account wide and can be gifted, traded and even sold on the exchange. Have we had one single item like that in STO? Is there enough material to make such items in the Star Trek universe, sure there are.
The difference between Gold and Silver players is much larger in Champions making people want to subscribe to be able to get access to all those cool things. On STO they are almost the same.
True,but PWE is running the show now.:(