Non tradable items in crafting? Not a hot idea. However, this might be a place you could create an Energy Credit Sink....have a base cost for crafting the items on top of the samples.
I don't craft. I've done a little to try it out, but I don't find it fun, or a good use of my time. I'd rather buy crafted merchandise on the exchange or get my stuff in other ways. But this will effectively destroy crafting, it will raise crafted item prices to astronomical levels. And wipe out fleet crafters. Seriously crafting should allow you to get upper tier items without allot of currency, or in this case $$$, since dilithium can be paid for now. I'm voting for this to be fixed, asap. Either go back to the original system or if you must charge DL make it so the schematics for high level gear cost Dilithium, but way less then what it is now. Maybe like 10-25% of the retail value. This would allow players to buy them for the fleet crafters when they want something created.
My comment will likely get buried in the "kill the fleet crafter" pile of posts, but when will we be able to craft outside of Memory Alpha/Qo'nos? Maybe still keeping a reason to sometimes come to these places like buying supplies, training or what not?
I have to say that i dont craft at all never did in any mmo but this seams to me that this is not going to help the crafters only make crafted idems cost more than ever.I play CO as well as STO and i feel that crafting is better in that game.PLZ Cryptic try to make the crafting in STO more like CO.
If the dilithium cost is meant to just boost the value up a notch, make it small enough that it actually fits. Right now, it's more like anomalies just give you a discount on vendor items. Mk IX at least should be no more than 2000 dilithium per item. Once it's up in the 10000+, it's more of a convoluted discount than a crafting system with a dilithium tax. My suggestion is to leave the dilithium cost at 10% of a comparable item cost. Right now, you might as well just spend the time you used getting anomalies and grind dilithium instead, so anything but an extreme discount fails to make it worthwhile.
Adding Dilithium costs to Crafting is a terrible idea. Speaking as a fleet crafter, trust me, I know.
Please, this will kill crafting. Don't make such a terrible change
Also, your ratios are screwy as heck.
A crafted purple Mk XI Sniper Rifle costs 7,945 Dilithium, AND 2 rare particle traces.
A purchased Purple Mk XI Sniper Rifle simply costs 11,350.
Now mind you, I firmly do not support adding a Dilithium cost to crafting, but even if I did, it would still be *WAY* easier just to buy the sniper Rifle from the vendor than to craft it.
So, all in all: Two huge foam novelty football thumbs down. An absolutely short-sighted and terrible change. Don't add Dilithium to crafting, please >_<
I think this is probably the second worst idea you have implemented. When I initially heard crafting was getting updated, I was hoping that it would have a bit more complexity and uniqueness to it. To distinguish it as a full system. But no, what we got is a Dilithium Gouge. That is right. I have said much of my peace in the Update Notes post but I will go into some additional detail.
First, it is obvious you guys DO NOT play the game very much aside from internal testing of things. I don't blame you, you have to work on it all day or you simply don't have the time. But I challenge you guys to play a toon on Tribble right now, not a godmode toon. Start leveling one up and you will see for yourself what we are all talking about. Much of the vitriol and vehemency is because we as players want to see the game better. You as developers want to see the game better. We know how to play the game, what do to do in it, and how changes will ultimately impact other aspects of the game far better that you do (as evidenced by the recent "crafting update"). You guys know the systems, how to create missions, and how to implement things in th game. It is obvious there is a disconnect. So start leveling, crafting, running exploration and tell us truthfully how fun you think the changes you are making are rather than just changing things for changing's sake. Is your goal to have people only play for a couple of hours a day and log off becuase there is nothing left to do since everything has become so restricted? Or is your goal to appeal to the broadest audience possible an offer a wide selection of things to do in game? If it is the later, you need to look at your decisions because you are heading down the road of restriction.
Crafting is central in most MMOs for community building and a player driven economy. From the crafting perspective this game already suffers with a:
Lack of diversity and uniqueness in crafting
Having a simplified token-shop approach
Being oversimplified and not engageing
Even though the crafting system is not broken but it did need some love (not hate), it did not need an additional gate that will have a rippling effect across the game:
Economy for such items will be even more inflated
Fleet crafters are now obsolete as everyone will be 'forced' to play a system whether they like it or not
Removes an additional layer of gameplay type from an already system/content poor game.
Removes the repeatbility of crafting.
And quite frankly the change is a little arbitrary and capriicious.
With this change, and the previous changes to exploration because of the dilithium system, a good chunk of the repeatability of this game has been removed. It also seems you are forceing players to play the game the way YOU guys want us to play and not the way WE want to play it (many examples in this update). Watch out that attitude will come back and bite you.
So far, Gozer revamping the STFs and Heretics Doff system are the only un-tarnished things to come out of this update so far. You have enough on your list if you want a successful F2P launch rather than fixing things that are not broken (Ship tokens and Crafting). Thing such as:
Polishing crafting and making it more expansive and engageing
Revamping exploration so it is more fun, engageing, and rewarding
Adding additional quest lines or story arcs to flesh out the low amount of content.
Complete the Klingon faction instead of continuing to promise it is coming
Adding more STFs, Fleet Actions, and PVP maps
Adding in more engageing and deep systems like the Doff system
Bug fixes ad infinitum....
It is simply all about having alternatives for different types of playstyle not forcing one particular playstyle on everyone. The more diverse the game is the more people will play it and the longer they will stay active in it. It does not take an economist to realize that. Overall I would say that although you have put a great deal of work into this new dilithium economy, with the direction you are going on it is bad and honestly I would rather keep the old system. That is most unfortunate that you did not consult with the player base on these changes before hand and your back is now against the wall. I seem to remember another company that made game sweeping changes without any thoughts from the playerbase... History will tell you how that worked out for them. Just look at the systems where the playerbase is given the opportunity to provide feedback during inital planning; doff system, new ship designs, the revamp of the STFs. Just watch how those will be welcomed by people not playing on tribble.
Mr. D'Angelo, I think it might be time for you to allow the developers to speak more with the playerbase before changes like this are made. You might just get some good ideas, but you will definately get a sense of what the response to the change would be before wasteing resources on things the community dislikes because of the impacts or simply does not want. Remember this simple little equation: No Fun + No Diversity + Forced Gameplay = No $$$$ and No $$$$ = No Game + No Jobs. We ALL do not want to see that happen.
But for my fleet, Federation Command, i was planning on creating a special crafting division/subfleet.
It would be an awesome thing to stockpile mass quantities of resources and to be able to supply every person in the main fleet with pretty much anything he needs.
I was even going to create multiple awards/medals within the fleet to show regonition for efficient and dedicated crafters.
But...
Cryptic just shot this entire grand plan to pieces.
Crash and burn... thanks a lot Cryptic.
While I kind of get what you guys are trying to do by adding Refined Dilithium, its not the right way to do it since its not tradeable. This change makes the false assumption that everyone will craft. This makes it so players can't craft for their friends or alts. I think it would be better to increase the anomaly cost and/or maybe use some amount of un-refined DiLithium.
Hint to the Devs: it goes without saying that there are always going to be some people who hate anything you do. But when "everyone" hates something, it might just be a bad idea. But alas, this goes back to my previous post, so hints might not make a difference.
Hint to the Devs: it goes without saying that there are always going to be some people who hate anything you do. But when "everyone" hates something, it might just be a bad idea. But alas, this goes back to my previous post, so hints might not make a difference.
LOL..very true...Ive only seen like 1 guy who agrees with this..
Its pretty much hands down hated and it just reeks of over the top money grabbing
... Adding Dilithium to crafting is a terrible idea. ...
To be honest: Old so called "Crafting" was a quite boring experience and no fun at all (at least there was an outcome in EC) Now its even worse.
If you're changing the crafting system this way, there is no more reason to craft at all.
Nothing more left to say about this: :mad:
If they wanted to add something to the price of crafting they should not use Dilithium which can't be traded between players or mailed between them, but instead use Energy Credits which can at least be traded. This way fleet crafters aren't ruined and a necessary Energy Credit sink is added to the game. Crafting should not be 'discount vender store' which is what this patch reduces it to.
Plain and simple Cryptic: YOU made dilithium cash by allowing it's exchange for cryptic points. So simply put, you are now CHARGING US to craft! Sugar coat it any way you want, it doesn't change this simple fact. YOU are putting a monetary charge on crafting.
"Our goal is to make it so that crafting is still rewarding and useful to everyone, even if they are not interested in working to acquire Dilithium."
Yet they still have to acquire Dilithium, this makes no sense. This whole idea is a bad one, no one I have spoken too or seen in the forums agrees with the devs on this one. Another big negative for F2P.
I have to say, in a series of what are generally clueful and reasonable Dev Blog posts, this one stands out as remarkably clueless, out of touch, and reeking of total disregard for, and unawareness of, what your loyal players like about the game, and expect to get from it. It really sounds like you (D'Angelo) did not have the slighest idea what crafting was about before this change, and could not give a TRIBBLE about what players really think now that you have done it.
Hint to the Devs: it goes without saying that there are always going to be some people who hate anything you do. But when "everyone" hates something, it might just be a bad idea. But alas, this goes back to my previous post, so hints might not make a difference.
What I find fascinating about the reaction to this particular issue, is what I have not seen. I have not seen anyone supporting this idea. I'm sure there will be some -- not ragging against them, but every idea has to have an advocate or two at least -- but for now I've not seen anyone who likes the idea of dilithium being used for crafting.
Here a weird thought. I bet this is all just a ploy. The devs wanted to add a higher cost to crafting. What better cost than one that can generate real $ (dilithium). They knew that any dilithium cost added to crafting was going to be raged against. So they put the first incarnation of diithium to crafting to be EXTREMELY HIGH. That way, when they lower it next week, we'll all be ok with the cost.
Look at dilithium loot. First prices were 7x higher than they are now. No one is complaining about the dilithium cost of those items now (even though they are still higher than they are on holodeck). They start off too high to get all the rage out, and then when they lower it, they look like they are listening to player feedback, when in all actuality they initially intended it to be the lower numbers, but wanted it to be well received. This is a business ploy to make themselves look good in the end and have another reason for players to need dilithium and in exchange buy c-points to get it.
lol, dont worry; i'm pretty sure they thought of that...
i dunno, with their scaling system, maybe they're under the impression that once this goes live, VA's and higher level people are going to have dilithium coming out of their ears, so they're giving them something to spend it on.
fleet crafters need to be thought of in all this, though, imo. give us account wide/fleet wide banks that we can deposit dilithium in, or something.
*sighs* I love this game. I may not agree with the some of the game changes in f2p, but I still love this game. Implementing this 'feature' into the game will rob the game of a lot of it's enjoyment for me. Please don't do it, or at the very least make the costs minimal.
I have to say, in a series of what are generally clueful and reasonable Dev Blog posts, this one stands out as remarkably clueless, out of touch, and reeking of total disregard for, and unawareness of, what your loyal players like about the game, and expect to get from it.
No one, and I mean no one likes this. ive seen a total of 2 guys who are ok with this. They will change it..im hopeful..LOL
Not adding to the complexity of crafting, I can live with.
Adding a Dilithium charge instead? That's just not a good idea. At all.
Here's an idea; bring back component requirements (i.e., to craft a purple phaser, you need the materials and a common phaser of the same energy type) and increase the number of non-rare anomalies required to craft it.
Unfortunately this just goes to show the Devs are either completely out of touch with the playerbase, or no longer have control of their own game(due to PW). Either way its a very bad sign.
Agreed Nagus. It seems like almost every time D'angelo communicates with us the game gets worse and worse:mad:
Comments
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=237416
Clueless .. They are completely clueless.
Adding Dilithium costs to Crafting is a terrible idea. Speaking as a fleet crafter, trust me, I know.
Please, this will kill crafting. Don't make such a terrible change
Also, your ratios are screwy as heck.
A purchased Purple Mk XI Sniper Rifle simply costs 11,350.
So, all in all: Two huge foam novelty football thumbs down. An absolutely short-sighted and terrible change. Don't add Dilithium to crafting, please >_<
First, it is obvious you guys DO NOT play the game very much aside from internal testing of things. I don't blame you, you have to work on it all day or you simply don't have the time. But I challenge you guys to play a toon on Tribble right now, not a godmode toon. Start leveling one up and you will see for yourself what we are all talking about. Much of the vitriol and vehemency is because we as players want to see the game better. You as developers want to see the game better. We know how to play the game, what do to do in it, and how changes will ultimately impact other aspects of the game far better that you do (as evidenced by the recent "crafting update"). You guys know the systems, how to create missions, and how to implement things in th game. It is obvious there is a disconnect. So start leveling, crafting, running exploration and tell us truthfully how fun you think the changes you are making are rather than just changing things for changing's sake. Is your goal to have people only play for a couple of hours a day and log off becuase there is nothing left to do since everything has become so restricted? Or is your goal to appeal to the broadest audience possible an offer a wide selection of things to do in game? If it is the later, you need to look at your decisions because you are heading down the road of restriction.
Crafting is central in most MMOs for community building and a player driven economy. From the crafting perspective this game already suffers with a:
Even though the crafting system is not broken but it did need some love (not hate), it did not need an additional gate that will have a rippling effect across the game:
With this change, and the previous changes to exploration because of the dilithium system, a good chunk of the repeatability of this game has been removed. It also seems you are forceing players to play the game the way YOU guys want us to play and not the way WE want to play it (many examples in this update). Watch out that attitude will come back and bite you.
So far, Gozer revamping the STFs and Heretics Doff system are the only un-tarnished things to come out of this update so far. You have enough on your list if you want a successful F2P launch rather than fixing things that are not broken (Ship tokens and Crafting). Thing such as:
It is simply all about having alternatives for different types of playstyle not forcing one particular playstyle on everyone. The more diverse the game is the more people will play it and the longer they will stay active in it. It does not take an economist to realize that. Overall I would say that although you have put a great deal of work into this new dilithium economy, with the direction you are going on it is bad and honestly I would rather keep the old system. That is most unfortunate that you did not consult with the player base on these changes before hand and your back is now against the wall. I seem to remember another company that made game sweeping changes without any thoughts from the playerbase... History will tell you how that worked out for them. Just look at the systems where the playerbase is given the opportunity to provide feedback during inital planning; doff system, new ship designs, the revamp of the STFs. Just watch how those will be welcomed by people not playing on tribble.
Mr. D'Angelo, I think it might be time for you to allow the developers to speak more with the playerbase before changes like this are made. You might just get some good ideas, but you will definately get a sense of what the response to the change would be before wasteing resources on things the community dislikes because of the impacts or simply does not want. Remember this simple little equation: No Fun + No Diversity + Forced Gameplay = No $$$$ and No $$$$ = No Game + No Jobs. We ALL do not want to see that happen.
Whoever has the "Don't Panic" signature. I think it's time to switch it over to "Panic!"
But for my fleet, Federation Command, i was planning on creating a special crafting division/subfleet.
It would be an awesome thing to stockpile mass quantities of resources and to be able to supply every person in the main fleet with pretty much anything he needs.
I was even going to create multiple awards/medals within the fleet to show regonition for efficient and dedicated crafters.
But...
Cryptic just shot this entire grand plan to pieces.
Crash and burn... thanks a lot Cryptic.
Seriously, why are you turning this game into an Asian grind fest?
Do crafters not have enough grinding to do to get the samples and rare samples without having to grind dilithium as well?
Way to go on making crafting even less fun/usefull.
ssssh, don't give them ideas.
LOL..very true...Ive only seen like 1 guy who agrees with this..
Its pretty much hands down hated and it just reeks of over the top money grabbing
To be honest: Old so called "Crafting" was a quite boring experience and no fun at all (at least there was an outcome in EC) Now its even worse.
If you're changing the crafting system this way, there is no more reason to craft at all.
Nothing more left to say about this: :mad:
Plain and simple Cryptic: YOU made dilithium cash by allowing it's exchange for cryptic points. So simply put, you are now CHARGING US to craft! Sugar coat it any way you want, it doesn't change this simple fact. YOU are putting a monetary charge on crafting.
Yet they still have to acquire Dilithium, this makes no sense. This whole idea is a bad one, no one I have spoken too or seen in the forums agrees with the devs on this one. Another big negative for F2P.
What I find fascinating about the reaction to this particular issue, is what I have not seen. I have not seen anyone supporting this idea. I'm sure there will be some -- not ragging against them, but every idea has to have an advocate or two at least -- but for now I've not seen anyone who likes the idea of dilithium being used for crafting.
Look at dilithium loot. First prices were 7x higher than they are now. No one is complaining about the dilithium cost of those items now (even though they are still higher than they are on holodeck). They start off too high to get all the rage out, and then when they lower it, they look like they are listening to player feedback, when in all actuality they initially intended it to be the lower numbers, but wanted it to be well received. This is a business ploy to make themselves look good in the end and have another reason for players to need dilithium and in exchange buy c-points to get it.
lol, dont worry; i'm pretty sure they thought of that...
i dunno, with their scaling system, maybe they're under the impression that once this goes live, VA's and higher level people are going to have dilithium coming out of their ears, so they're giving them something to spend it on.
fleet crafters need to be thought of in all this, though, imo. give us account wide/fleet wide banks that we can deposit dilithium in, or something.
No one, and I mean no one likes this. ive seen a total of 2 guys who are ok with this. They will change it..im hopeful..LOL
Adding a Dilithium charge instead? That's just not a good idea. At all.
Here's an idea; bring back component requirements (i.e., to craft a purple phaser, you need the materials and a common phaser of the same energy type) and increase the number of non-rare anomalies required to craft it.
Agreed Nagus. It seems like almost every time D'angelo communicates with us the game gets worse and worse:mad: