I'd pay $10 to have my Klingon start at Vice Admiral since the few repeatable missions get boring after the 6th time and then I just go back to playing Fed.
I'd pay $10 to have my Klingon start at Lieutenant General since the few repeatable missions get boring after the 6th time and then I just go back to playing Fed.
Perfectly reasonable and I think all C-store ships regardless of tier should be able to be acquired through ingame means approximately a month after release so those who pay get it first
Actualy it should be ingame first for a few months before hitting the C-store... so the lazy can wait.
the OP wants the P2W ships okay im cool with it but in any group he counts as multiple ships so for pvp he'll count as anywher between 2-5 other players (this would be based on some type of mechanic like firepower boff ability spread and such) so basically he plays a nasty nasty penalty and is handicapped by having to do more work since hed have less ships on his team. same would go for pve content as well. he'd be having to fight off more ships for his p2w ship.
it's all about balance. sometimes it takes a while to get there but it will balance
That sound like cheating, the men with the most money always win .
If they are going this way I'm not going to subscribe to them if they do that .
Are they going nuts ???
It always amazes me how no one argues against added bonuses and extra power in C-Store items adversely affecting PvE, the arguments are always focused around PvP... perhaps if STO had no PvP things would be more relaxed around here...
Except people have, repeatedly. If you haven't seen it, you've not been paying attention.
Except people have, repeatedly. If you haven't seen it, you've not been paying attention.
Forums are huge and search functions continuously fail to deliver these exact posts, so... do you have any links to posts I could read through? In particular any posts that explain how an escape power (that works only for Science ships and you have to sacrifice a console-slot for) and one extra Science-Lieutenant level power for the Rhode Island itself adversely affect PvE?
Forums are huge and search functions continuously fail to deliver these exact posts, so... do you have any links to posts I could read through? In particular any posts that explain how an escape power (that works only for Science ships and you have to sacrifice a console-slot for) and one extra Science-Lieutenant level power for the Rhode Island itself adversely affect PvE?
*shrug* If you'd been following the threads...
For one thing, the console causes bugs in PvE that haven't been fixed, but that's an issue no matter what.
Extra power (and the Rhode Island is pure extra, with no negative whatsoever) affects the competitive rewards of fleet actions, makes it easier to get the better drops of higher dfficulty levels, and provides a financial incentive to actually start making PvE more difficult to drive demand for more power.
While it is currently just one tier 2 ship, the devs have stated plainly that more peers of this ship are on the way in tiers 2-4, including KDF-side. Therefore, this is not an isolated incident, and I believe any assurances that this won't apply to endgame within the forseeable future (assurances which, notably, the devs have not even bothered to give) should be viewed with earned mistrust.
And to me, all of that is secondary to the dishonesty, both in the presentation of this particular ship and regarding the cancerous expansion of the C-store in general.
That sound like cheating, the men with the most money always win .
If they are going this way I'm not going to subscribe to them if they do that .
Are they going nuts ???
Very few things are the most money wins. Most things have a cap, either naturally defined or defined by a ruling body. For example sports teams have salary caps to keep things competitive if a team want to be competitive for the max expense. Others are naturally capped by the laws of diminishing returns. Finally, things like the C-Store are also capped because there are only so many things available, and the useable quantities and the prices are limited.
All you need to be willing to do is pay the required price to remain fully competitive, or choose not to and be somewhat less competitive. It's each player's choice as to how far they go to support the game, or if it's too expensive for them to play based on their minimum required level of competiveness.
Also, "pay to play" is essentially always "pay to win". If you don't pay you can't play and thus can't win. The valid complaint is how much it will cost to play with "required" OP items and the consequences that increased cost will have on subscription numbers. Of course some also object to an effective price increase mid-subscription, and while that's understandable, it's hardly unexpected since prices everywhere keep going up.
And now Cryptic has an even higher price that was paid for it that it needs to justify and earn a return on. So help...buy an OP item for the C-Store.
Got to love the mods. Fanboys are allowed to troll and be as insulting as they want. But people with genuine grevances get infractions and their threads deleted.
If this was anything even close to true there wouldn't be anywhere near as many people posting on the forums right now as there are, and you would be banned for this. Which, it does not appear you have been.
It's time to calm down and stop with the false claims people. If you've broken a rule, your post is going to be edited, and you're going to get either a warning, or an infraction, dependent upon the severity of the rule you broke, and how you chose to break it.
If you don't break the rules, you can complain as much as you like. Believe it or not, we appreciate your concerns, and want to hear them voiced.
If this was anything even close to true there wouldn't be anywhere near as many people posting on the forums right now as there are, and you would be banned for this. Which, it does not appear you have been.
It's time to calm down and stop with the false claims people. If you've broken a rule, your post is going to be edited, and you're going to get either a warning, or an infraction, dependent upon the severity of the rule you broke, and how you chose to break it.
If you don't break the rules, you can complain as much as you like. Believe it or not, we appreciate your concerns, and want to hear them voiced.
Thanks,
Stormshade
yeah, it's all about HOW you voice your concerns
it's like standing on the edge of a knife: do it right, and you don't fall off (you don't get edited or infracted). do it wrong, and you fall off (edited or infracted)
yeah, it's all about HOW you voice your concerns
it's like standing on the edge of a knife: do it right, and you don't fall off (you don't get edited or infracted). do it wrong, and you fall off (edited or infracted)
Oh if only it was that black & white.
In my opinion and experience, interpretation comes into play and can push you off that knife edge even if you "did it right".
Now on topic...
This is how Cryptic have chosen to fund the game. I'm OK with that actually no matter what I protest, as I keep my money. That's the bottom line for me. It stays in my pocket now.
While it is currently just one tier 2 ship, the devs have stated plainly that more peers of this ship are on the way in tiers 2-4, including KDF-side. Therefore, this is not an isolated incident, and I believe any assurances that this won't apply to endgame within the forseeable future (assurances which, notably, the devs have not even bothered to give) should be viewed with earned mistrust.
Quite frankly, the new Tier 2 ships to replace the Saber and Constitution now MUST be available in the C-Store, and MUST have an extra console, and two Lt. BO powers in their primary role. To release them otherwise would be imbalanced. (If they don't get the extra BO slot and console, then they won't be as good as the Rhode Island, if they are not released in the C-store, then it'll be the Rhode Island owners who will complain)
And we have seen an alternate version of the Tier 2 Escort which was being developed. So it is VERY likely that that will be the next or one of the next C-store ships to be released.
The only hope that this will stop at Tier 2 is if the devs release a Tier 3 ship that conforms to the standard for consoles and BO layout.
If this was anything even close to true there wouldn't be anywhere near as many people posting on the forums right now as there are, and you would be banned for this. Which, it does not appear you have been.
It's time to calm down and stop with the false claims people. If you've broken a rule, your post is going to be edited, and you're going to get either a warning, or an infraction, dependent upon the severity of the rule you broke, and how you chose to break it.
If you don't break the rules, you can complain as much as you like. Believe it or not, we appreciate your concerns, and want to hear them voiced.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Hiya Stormie, certainly agree that the majority of the time you guys are pretty fair with your moderation, seen plenty of Pro *issue of the day* posts being closed because of the manner in which those people posted...
But could you do me a favour my good man, take a look at the first post of this thread again, it might give you an idea why some people are under the impression of "guerilla modding" when it comes to criticism.
Not saying that it deserves modding, just that the tone of the post may be worth looking at again.
Quite frankly, the new Tier 2 ships to replace the Saber and Constitution now MUST be available in the C-Store, and MUST have an extra console, and two Lt. BO powers in their primary role. To release them otherwise would be imbalanced. (If they don't get the extra BO slot and console, then they won't be as good as the Rhode Island, if they are not released in the C-store, then it'll be the Rhode Island owners who will complain)
And we have seen an alternate version of the Tier 2 Escort which was being developed. So it is VERY likely that that will be the next or one of the next C-store ships to be released.
The only hope that this will stop at Tier 2 is if the devs release a Tier 3 ship that conforms to the standard for consoles and BO layout.
Well, the R.I. has an additional Lt Sci/Engineering Console/+.5 impulse modifier/special console that gives a maxed Tier 3 ability plus an additional ability you need a Tier 5 skill to spec into. So how do we balance this when introducing a Tier 2.5 Escort and Cruiser? I'm curious to here this. And remember, the R.I. has no drawbacks when contrasted to the Nova.
Hiya Stormie, certainly agree that the majority of the time you guys are pretty fair with your moderation, seen plenty of Pro *issue of the day* posts being closed because of the manner in which those people posted...
But could you do me a favour my good man, take a look at the first post of this thread again, it might give you an idea why some people are under the impression of "guerilla modding" when it comes to criticism.
Not saying that it deserves modding, just that the tone of the post may be worth looking at again.
Just to note here, we have no idea who got infractions in this thread. The OP might have gotten one, or even a warning infraction. The fact that any mod action isn't visible to posters doesn't mean the mods didn't note the first post.
Just to note here, we have no idea who got infractions in this thread. The OP might have gotten one, or even a warning infraction. The fact that any mod action isn't visible to posters doesn't mean the mods didn't note the first post.
Aye, I know, not trying to tell Stormy how to do his job as he's damn good at it, but he's still human and could have missed it. Just felt it was worth pointing out why some of the more... well, shall we say "reactive" and "passionate" members of the community in this thread have got the impression of bias towards "cryptic supporters".
Believe it or not, we appreciate your concerns, and want to hear them voiced.
I have a truly difficult time believing this given how much negative feedback was given on the RI before its release without a single change. As I have stated elsewhere: Pay attention to what people do more than to what they say, for deeds will betray a lie.
I have a truly difficult time believing this given how much negative feedback was given on the RI before its release without a single change. As I have stated elsewhere: Pay attention to what people do more than to what they say, for deeds will betray a lie.
You do understand that listening to feedback and not changing your mind doesn't mean you didn't listen to it? My kids give me good reasons for why they want something every day. That doesn't mean I change my mind and give it to them. As I saw in another post someone made, people complain about the c-store around here every day but there's still a c-store. If Cryptic doesn't agree with the reasons there's no reason to change their mind.
I have a truly difficult time believing this given how much negative feedback was given on the RI before its release without a single change. As I have stated elsewhere: Pay attention to what people do more than to what they say, for deeds will betray a lie.
Stormy's job is to enforce the forum rules and to let the developers know stuff that's going here that they might not have otherwise seen. I've never really known him to be unfair in doing so. Anything beyond that isn't him, and even for the past while that hasn't been his role here.
And with that said, I for one, welcome our new Stormshade overlord. Id like to remind him that as a trusted forum personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in his underground... wait, what is it that Stormshade spends all his time doing underground...?
You do understand that listening to feedback and not changing your mind doesn't mean you didn't listen to it? My kids give me good reasons for why they want something every day. That doesn't mean I change my mind and give it to them. As I saw in another post someone made, people complain about the c-store around here every day but there's still a c-store. If Cryptic doesn't agree with the reasons there's no reason to change their mind.
It does when it includes all the bugs that were lumped into the complaint, then the release is delayed 2-3 weeks and remains the same.
I have a truly difficult time believing this given how much negative feedback was given on the RI before its release without a single change. As I have stated elsewhere: Pay attention to what people do more than to what they say, for deeds will betray a lie.
As they have said before "by a vocal minority". Judging by the amount of RI's I have seen floating at SOL I would say they are more than pleased. I know I am. With lets say 50k + subscribers do you really think they are going to scrap the plans to keep the money coming in because of 50 or 100 frothy forum ranters? seriously?
It does when it includes all the bugs that were lumped into the complaint, then the release is delayed 2-3 weeks and remains the same.
Do you own the ship yourself or are you just assuming it was released bugged? I've seen lots of threads complaining about the 2.5 aspect. I don't remember seeing any saying it was released to the c-store bugged.
Utter garbage. I bought the RI , I do not do fleet actions, I do not do PvP at all. I have not used its special power once in PvE. I bought it because it cost me less than a pizza and it looks cool and because I could. Don't hate me for having money or not being a tight ***.
Oh right I win because I have a ship that I PvE with in single missions....... Oh right whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine ( so I fit in more )
I have little doubt that you're the average purchaser, for whom the added powers with no drawbacks didn't actually figure meaningfully into the purchasing decision.
That's what makes this situation so frustrating for many of us. For the people who don't care, the boost is pointless (and a balanced T3 would have been more useful for Nova fans) and the item would have been bought anyway, For those of us who actually do care, and bought into the assurances that the STO staff gave us, it's a betrayal and has inspired many of us to never buy anything in STO again. The only benefit is to people who actually prefer to pay to win.
I have little doubt that you're the average purchaser, for whom the added powers with no drawbacks didn't actually figure meaningfully into the purchasing decision.
That's what makes this situation so frustrating for many of us. For the people who don't care, the boost is pointless (and a balanced T3 would have been more useful for Nova fans) and the item would have been bought anyway, For those of us who actually do care, and bought into the assurances that the STO staff gave us, it's a betrayal and has inspired many of us to never buy anything in STO again. The only benefit is to people who actually prefer to pay to win.
wow Squid! that is like the calmest response i have ever seen you make! Are you thinking about ditching the Sarcastic Venom Award i had suggested you have? lol
Comments
Fixed, P´tagh.....
Actualy it should be ingame first for a few months before hitting the C-store... so the lazy can wait.
it's all about balance. sometimes it takes a while to get there but it will balance
Actually, It's petaQ
Dang, my cover is blown. Back to Romu...err Rator with me.
I KNEW IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:
That sound like cheating, the men with the most money always win .
If they are going this way I'm not going to subscribe to them if they do that .
Are they going nuts ???
Except people have, repeatedly. If you haven't seen it, you've not been paying attention.
*shrug* If you'd been following the threads...
For one thing, the console causes bugs in PvE that haven't been fixed, but that's an issue no matter what.
Extra power (and the Rhode Island is pure extra, with no negative whatsoever) affects the competitive rewards of fleet actions, makes it easier to get the better drops of higher dfficulty levels, and provides a financial incentive to actually start making PvE more difficult to drive demand for more power.
While it is currently just one tier 2 ship, the devs have stated plainly that more peers of this ship are on the way in tiers 2-4, including KDF-side. Therefore, this is not an isolated incident, and I believe any assurances that this won't apply to endgame within the forseeable future (assurances which, notably, the devs have not even bothered to give) should be viewed with earned mistrust.
And to me, all of that is secondary to the dishonesty, both in the presentation of this particular ship and regarding the cancerous expansion of the C-store in general.
Very few things are the most money wins. Most things have a cap, either naturally defined or defined by a ruling body. For example sports teams have salary caps to keep things competitive if a team want to be competitive for the max expense. Others are naturally capped by the laws of diminishing returns. Finally, things like the C-Store are also capped because there are only so many things available, and the useable quantities and the prices are limited.
All you need to be willing to do is pay the required price to remain fully competitive, or choose not to and be somewhat less competitive. It's each player's choice as to how far they go to support the game, or if it's too expensive for them to play based on their minimum required level of competiveness.
Also, "pay to play" is essentially always "pay to win". If you don't pay you can't play and thus can't win. The valid complaint is how much it will cost to play with "required" OP items and the consequences that increased cost will have on subscription numbers. Of course some also object to an effective price increase mid-subscription, and while that's understandable, it's hardly unexpected since prices everywhere keep going up.
And now Cryptic has an even higher price that was paid for it that it needs to justify and earn a return on. So help...buy an OP item for the C-Store.
If this was anything even close to true there wouldn't be anywhere near as many people posting on the forums right now as there are, and you would be banned for this. Which, it does not appear you have been.
It's time to calm down and stop with the false claims people. If you've broken a rule, your post is going to be edited, and you're going to get either a warning, or an infraction, dependent upon the severity of the rule you broke, and how you chose to break it.
If you don't break the rules, you can complain as much as you like. Believe it or not, we appreciate your concerns, and want to hear them voiced.
Thanks,
Stormshade
it's like standing on the edge of a knife: do it right, and you don't fall off (you don't get edited or infracted). do it wrong, and you fall off (edited or infracted)
Oh if only it was that black & white.
In my opinion and experience, interpretation comes into play and can push you off that knife edge even if you "did it right".
Now on topic...
This is how Cryptic have chosen to fund the game. I'm OK with that actually no matter what I protest, as I keep my money. That's the bottom line for me. It stays in my pocket now.
Quite frankly, the new Tier 2 ships to replace the Saber and Constitution now MUST be available in the C-Store, and MUST have an extra console, and two Lt. BO powers in their primary role. To release them otherwise would be imbalanced. (If they don't get the extra BO slot and console, then they won't be as good as the Rhode Island, if they are not released in the C-store, then it'll be the Rhode Island owners who will complain)
And we have seen an alternate version of the Tier 2 Escort which was being developed. So it is VERY likely that that will be the next or one of the next C-store ships to be released.
The only hope that this will stop at Tier 2 is if the devs release a Tier 3 ship that conforms to the standard for consoles and BO layout.
Hiya Stormie, certainly agree that the majority of the time you guys are pretty fair with your moderation, seen plenty of Pro *issue of the day* posts being closed because of the manner in which those people posted...
But could you do me a favour my good man, take a look at the first post of this thread again, it might give you an idea why some people are under the impression of "guerilla modding" when it comes to criticism.
Not saying that it deserves modding, just that the tone of the post may be worth looking at again.
Well, the R.I. has an additional Lt Sci/Engineering Console/+.5 impulse modifier/special console that gives a maxed Tier 3 ability plus an additional ability you need a Tier 5 skill to spec into. So how do we balance this when introducing a Tier 2.5 Escort and Cruiser? I'm curious to here this. And remember, the R.I. has no drawbacks when contrasted to the Nova.
Aye, I know, not trying to tell Stormy how to do his job as he's damn good at it, but he's still human and could have missed it. Just felt it was worth pointing out why some of the more... well, shall we say "reactive" and "passionate" members of the community in this thread have got the impression of bias towards "cryptic supporters".
I have a truly difficult time believing this given how much negative feedback was given on the RI before its release without a single change. As I have stated elsewhere: Pay attention to what people do more than to what they say, for deeds will betray a lie.
Stormy's job is to enforce the forum rules and to let the developers know stuff that's going here that they might not have otherwise seen. I've never really known him to be unfair in doing so. Anything beyond that isn't him, and even for the past while that hasn't been his role here.
And with that said, I for one, welcome our new Stormshade overlord. Id like to remind him that as a trusted forum personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in his underground... wait, what is it that Stormshade spends all his time doing underground...?
It does when it includes all the bugs that were lumped into the complaint, then the release is delayed 2-3 weeks and remains the same.
As they have said before "by a vocal minority". Judging by the amount of RI's I have seen floating at SOL I would say they are more than pleased. I know I am. With lets say 50k + subscribers do you really think they are going to scrap the plans to keep the money coming in because of 50 or 100 frothy forum ranters? seriously?
Lol
I have little doubt that you're the average purchaser, for whom the added powers with no drawbacks didn't actually figure meaningfully into the purchasing decision.
That's what makes this situation so frustrating for many of us. For the people who don't care, the boost is pointless (and a balanced T3 would have been more useful for Nova fans) and the item would have been bought anyway, For those of us who actually do care, and bought into the assurances that the STO staff gave us, it's a betrayal and has inspired many of us to never buy anything in STO again. The only benefit is to people who actually prefer to pay to win.
wow Squid! that is like the calmest response i have ever seen you make! Are you thinking about ditching the Sarcastic Venom Award i had suggested you have? lol
I LOL'd at this