Well, the console is very useful for escorts in arena PvP on any level and will certainly have an impact on it to some degree. But at least Cryptic seems to have learned from the Excelsior retrofit rampage and made the new ship irrelevant for the endgame.
If this ship were to be an isolated incident, then I wouldn't care at all. But.......
There are no less than 16 new ships inbound that are all variants on existing ships at different tiers. Some will say that each one is more powerful than the base model, and others will not - but the design is that each of these new ships has a power that is new and adds new strategies to the game - because we are a game and we will continue to evolve.
Once we have converted all marks/badges/honor/emblems into the new "time" currency (probably Dilithium) - then we will also hook up all the new missions that allow you to earn Dilithium at all levels on a daily basis. So everyone will be earning Dilithium throughout their career (your previous currencies will be converted to Dilithium as well).
Then you'll be able to directly trade Dilithium to other players for C-Points and then you can get the Rhode Island or any other ship out there. And if you are worried that people won't have c-points to trade, there is an enormous vault of unspent c-points awaiting to be traded.
And for those who love to speculate about STO going F2P, if that ever happens, then I'm certain STO would give stipends to all subscribers/lifetimers just like Champs does. I'd also imagine STO would reprice many things in the game just like Champs did.
All the economy changes are going live Sep 22, so if you want to wait and trade emblems for it then, that is your perogative. But do keep in mind, STO needs to continually add new items to the C-Store to stay on track financially.
And when repeatedly asked if this BoFF layout was an isolated incident, he dodged the answer time and time again.
No it doesn't. The terms means (not implies) that it is overpowered, as in, beyond the established power level (read: More powerful, you know, what you just acknowledged). That it is not balanced.
So we should balance other people's skills as well since they are obviously are OP compared to mine and others? There would be absolutely no difference between lots of people playing a RI compared to a Nova since 1 console and 1 Lt science skill is not enough to change a fight.
Lets look at the definition of overpowered.
1: to overcome by superior force : subdue
2: to affect with overwhelming intensity <the stench overpowered us>
3: to provide with more power than is needed or desirable <a dangerously overpowered car>
Superior force is debatable since skill counts for alot. I would suggest it is moderately better force. Certainly won't affect the battle with overwhelming intensity. Certainly doesn't provide more power than is needed or desirable. The RI is a moderately better ship than the Nova, but it is not overpowered. Power is a scale with OP being at or near the extreme. I can still call a ship more powerful than another ship, but it is not OP. OP would be fighting a Peregrine Fighter with a Prometheus.
Scroll down to the configuration table there and look at the 2nd and 3rd rows. Compare the two and then come back and tell me, with a straight face, that the Rhode Island is not overpowered compared to it's peers.
Scroll down to the configuration table there and look at the 2nd and 3rd rows. Compare the two and then come back and tell me, with a straight face, that the Rhode Island is not overpowered compared to it's peers.
I wonder what that and the other charts will look like once the remaining ships are released.:eek:
Scroll down to the configuration table there and look at the 2nd and 3rd rows. Compare the two and then come back and tell me, with a straight face, that the Rhode Island is not overpowered compared to it's peers.
Slightly better, but not overpowered. If it had the stats of a T3 or T4 ship, then it might be overpowered.
Superior force is debatable since skill counts for alot. I would suggest it is moderately better force.
Yes. The SHIP is better. It is SUPERIOR. Thus it is superior force.
There is no debate here. You're trying to argue semantics when the situation is cut and dry, enough so that before the spin train started rolling the person who designed the ship flat out said it was overpowered and intentionally so. Thus you're kind of wasting your time.
So what you're saying is that you don't understand, at all, the idea of fair play nor level playing fields nor what that entails.
Gotcha.
Yes. The SHIP is better. It is SUPERIOR. Thus it is superior force.
There is no debate here. You're trying to argue semantics when the situation is cut and dry, enough so that before the spin train started rolling the person who designed the ship flat out said it was overpowered and intentionally so. Thus you're kind of wasting your time.
I think if something is this controversial, even if it is not OP'ed, then it shouldn't be in the C-Store... *PERIOD.* That's just my opion, though. Please devs, take it for what it's worth, but I hope my opinion is considered a lesson, and very valuable too.
So we should balance other people's skills as well since they are obviously are OP compared to mine and others? There would be absolutely no difference between lots of people playing a RI compared to a Nova since 1 console and 1 Lt science skill is not enough to change a fight.
Lets look at the definition of overpowered.
Superior force is debatable since skill counts for alot. I would suggest it is moderately better force. Certainly won't affect the battle with overwhelming intensity. Certainly doesn't provide more power than is needed or desirable. The RI is a moderately better ship than the Nova, but it is not overpowered. Power is a scale with OP being at or near the extreme. I can still call a ship more powerful than another ship, but it is not OP. OP would be fighting a Peregrine Fighter with a Prometheus.
Now your arguing the use of the word instead of the subject at hand. To humor you the RI is BETTER than the Nova and all other T2 ships stats wise. That is undeniable and it is an unfair advantage to the player that buys it. Period. Is it a game breaker for T2 PvP? Debatable. Not the point. The RI is the first of the new ships to come out and a lot of players want to know if this is the blueprint for the new ships going up to T5 and above. That's the point of the discussion. Stop arguing semantics, if you have an argument other than quoting dictionaries please reply. As i said before these lines of argument only distract from the true point and do not add anything to the matter at hand.
So what you're saying is that you don't understand, at all, the idea of fair play nor level playing fields nor what that entails.
Gotcha.
And how do you level playing fields with someone with better skill? There is no system that I know of where the game levels the playing field. Can use a PvP league to set up matches between players with similar skills, but those require set rules and can be abused. For T2 PvP, this could be considered as an equalizer between people with less talent competing with people with more talent.
Obviously, my definition of OP and yours is different. Your definition is the same as mine of slightly better. I have said before that Power Comparison is a scale with slightly better, moderately better, and overpowered at the far end. An excess amount of force being used is OP IMO.
The RI is exactly the same as the Galaxy X. A completely worthless ship IMO. Having the RI won't make a player win anymore fights than they usually do. The fact that you have to pay for it, makes it less attractive than the benefits of 1 extra console and 1 extra Science Lt power. People are not going to be defeating mobs any easier than with a Nova.
And how do you level playing fields with someone with better skill?
You give both sides an even playing field; no-one's under the illusion that you can balance for individual player's skills. Simply give us a level playing field. That's all anyone is asking for.
You give both sides an even playing field; no-one's under the illusion that you can balance for individual player's skills. Simply give us a level playing field. That's all anyone is asking for.
This is why I love rock/paper/scissors. Its a self-balancing game.
And how do you level playing fields with someone with better skill? There is no system that I know of where the game levels the playing field. Can use a PvP league to set up matches between players with similar skills, but those require set rules and can be abused. For T2 PvP, this could be considered as an equalizer between people with less talent competing with people with more talent.
Obviously, my definition of OP and yours is different. Your definition is the same as mine of slightly better. I have said before that Power Comparison is a scale with slightly better, moderately better, and overpowered at the far end. An excess amount of force being used is OP IMO.
The RI is exactly the same as the Galaxy X. A completely worthless ship IMO. Having the RI won't make a player win anymore fights than they usually do. The fact that you have to pay for it, makes it less attractive than the benefits of 1 extra console and 1 extra Science Lt power. People are not going to be defeating mobs any easier than with a Nova.
Again making a point of something that is irrelevant. Yes, some people are better at PvP than other's. So What? That is a fact of every game that has ever had a multiplayer.
The RI is distinctly different from the Galaxy X because the Galaxy X has drawbacks to equal out its powers. The RI has no more disadvantages than the Nova but has a good deal of extra power.
That is Fact.
Your argument has nothing to do with the matter at hand. Besides that it is nothing more than a pitfall because it is something inherent in all games because of the fact that we do not live in an equal world. That is a fact that no one can change so arguing it it pointless.
And how do you level playing fields with someone with better skill?
See? You don't understand. The player is not the playing field.
The playing field is supposed to be level in order to offer an even chance for the competitors skills to be tested in competition. That's the entire point of this. You don't level the player's skills, because that is what is being tested in a competition.
Seriously, have you never played any sports before?
See? You don't understand. The player is not the playing field.
The playing field is supposed to be level in order to offer an even chance for the competitors skills to be tested in competition. That's the entire point of this. You don't level the player's skills, because that is what is being tested in a competition.
Seriously, have you never played any sports before?
And this is why you don't bring a knife to a gunfight. But at the sametime, nor do you bring a tactical nuke.
See? You don't understand. The player is not the playing field.
The playing field is supposed to be level in order to offer an even chance for the competitors skills to be tested in competition. That's the entire point of this. You don't level the player's skills, because that is what is being tested in a competition.
Seriously, have you never played any sports before?
The players are part of the playing field. That is why you don't have NFL players going against High School Football players. An NFL player can expect a certain level of competence from the opposing team. Sure there is various levels of skill in the NFL or High School Football, but it is not at such a level where one is completely useless or dominates the game. With PvP, there is a mix of High School level players and NFL level players playing against each other since the public queue exists. Only way to have only competent level matches is to set up the PvP match personally with people you know are competent. It is not fun to fight PvP noobs if you are into the challenge of going against a decent opponent. However, this is a problem with PvP and not the RI and similar ships.
I could personally care less about the RI since it doesn't interest me. PvP doesn't interest me as well so I could care less what another person is using. Probably won't find many people except a vocal minority that care about these new X.5 ships being better about their counterparts since the world is filled with apathy about stuff that doesn't concern them.
That is why you don't have NFL players going against High School Football players.
Actually you don't have high school football teams competing in the NFL because the NFL is the National Football League and there are no high school teams in that league. We don't have CFL teams competing in the NFL either because, again, they aren't part of the same league.
Actually you don't have high school football teams competing in the NFL because the NFL is the National Football League and there are no high school teams in that league. We don't have CFL teams competing in the NFL either because, again, they aren't part of the same league.
STO has one league. We're all in it.
Seriously dude... you're just being obtuse.
Never said anything about NFL teams playing in High School leagues or High School teams playing in the NFL. I said NFL players playing against High School players which is possible. Not all matches have to have an audience. You can get a Football match together with CFL players, NFL players, and High School Football players as long as it is just for fun.
As far as STO being all one league, then that is debatable. Each player has their own personal preference of what part of STO we play in. A league means that everyone has the ability to play with each other. A person that only PvPs will not play with a person that only raids.
I love being obtuse since part of my handle is about being obtuse. Chaos is all about being obtuse.
Never said anything about NFL teams playing in High School leagues or High School teams playing in the NFL.
Yes. Yes you did.
The fact of the matter is, the only requirement for being eligible for the NFL draft is that you have been out of high school for three years. There is no competency requirement.
After high school, once it's been three years, you can be in the draft and playing in the NFL if chosen. That's it. You need no more training, no college ball. Nothing.
I said NFL players playing against High School players which is possible. Not all matches have to have an audience.
And NFL players do tend to play the game outside the NFL. You hear of Pros vs. Joes? There's an entire TV show devoted to regular blokes trying their mettle against professional athletes, NFL players included.
So again, you are wrong.
You can try and wiggle your way out of it, but it doesn't change the fact you haven't made a valid argument.
As far as STO being all one league, then that is debatable.
You're right. Sort of. Because the majority of competitive modes in this game are tiered. Technically the tiers are each their own leagues. This is actually WHY the Rhode Island is broken.
Never said anything about NFL teams playing in High School leagues or High School teams playing in the NFL. I said NFL players playing against High School players which is possible. Not all matches have to have an audience. You can get a Football match together with CFL players, NFL players, and High School Football players as long as it is just for fun.
As far as STO being all one league, then that is debatable. Each player has their own personal preference of what part of STO we play in. A league means that everyone has the ability to play with each other. A person that only PvPs will not play with a person that only raids.
I love being obtuse since part of my handle is about being obtuse. Chaos is all about being obtuse.
Don't ya just love metaphors that have nothing to do with anything and really do make sense anyway as an arguing point
The Rhode Island is not even a overpowered ship. It may be better than any current T2 ship right now but as far as saying it's overpowered. Your all a bunch of whiners. You show me a Rhode Island ship that can defeat a T5 ship and I'll show you a Vice Admiral who doesn't know how to play the game. It's a better tier 2 ship without a doubt but guess what, people who buy things get better things, thats plain and simple. Overpowered is when you include beams that can penetrate shielding and do double the damage. Or maybe shields that can survive species 8472's weapons without even blinking.
Seriously Cryptic has to generate revenue and the way they do that is by selling things on C-Store. Nothing they have sold has been ridiculously overpowered. Truth is your all a bunch of whiners who don't want to pay for a Rhode Island but want to get it. Well guess what, if your all too cheap to buy it then get on the back of the bus and wait for it to come out in game purchase. The new Rhode Island is a great job and a fine addition to the game. It's not seriously overpowered and truth is if your a T5 captain and you can't defeat a Rhode Island class starship, take a good look at yourselves because the reality is you pretty much such at STO.
Nuff Said.
so if being statisticly better then any other tier 2 ship isn't over powered define over powered?
so if being statisticly better then any other tier 2 ship isn't over powered define over powered?
Going to have to break my promise for a bit about staying out of this thread. Two definitions of overpowered being used in this thread, slightly better and overwhelming power. Me and the OP use the overwhelming power definition of overpowered while others use the slightly better definition. To me the RI would be overpowered if it could solo against 5 or more decent PvPers in T5 ships. Since I doubt that it can solo against 2 Novas, then it is not OP according to my definition.
To me the RI would be overpowered if it could solo against 5 or more decent PvPers in T5 ships.
:rolleyes:
Which of course (a) would never happen in game anyway, and (b) is so far beyond ridiculous that I am absolutely astonished and appalled that you would think that makes a legitimate argument for the ships.
Comments
If this ship were to be an isolated incident, then I wouldn't care at all. But.......
And when repeatedly asked if this BoFF layout was an isolated incident, he dodged the answer time and time again.
So we should balance other people's skills as well since they are obviously are OP compared to mine and others? There would be absolutely no difference between lots of people playing a RI compared to a Nova since 1 console and 1 Lt science skill is not enough to change a fight.
Lets look at the definition of overpowered.
Superior force is debatable since skill counts for alot. I would suggest it is moderately better force. Certainly won't affect the battle with overwhelming intensity. Certainly doesn't provide more power than is needed or desirable. The RI is a moderately better ship than the Nova, but it is not overpowered. Power is a scale with OP being at or near the extreme. I can still call a ship more powerful than another ship, but it is not OP. OP would be fighting a Peregrine Fighter with a Prometheus.
http://www.stowiki.org/Federation_Science_Vessel
Scroll down to the configuration table there and look at the 2nd and 3rd rows. Compare the two and then come back and tell me, with a straight face, that the Rhode Island is not overpowered compared to it's peers.
I wonder what that and the other charts will look like once the remaining ships are released.:eek:
Slightly better, but not overpowered. If it had the stats of a T3 or T4 ship, then it might be overpowered.
So what you're saying is that you don't understand, at all, the idea of fair play nor level playing fields nor what that entails.
Gotcha.
Yes. The SHIP is better. It is SUPERIOR. Thus it is superior force.
There is no debate here. You're trying to argue semantics when the situation is cut and dry, enough so that before the spin train started rolling the person who designed the ship flat out said it was overpowered and intentionally so. Thus you're kind of wasting your time.
I have read them too, and based upon all those posts I decided...
I am going to buy one right now and have some fun playing with it!
See you all later, I am off to play with my new toy.
I think if something is this controversial, even if it is not OP'ed, then it shouldn't be in the C-Store... *PERIOD.* That's just my opion, though. Please devs, take it for what it's worth, but I hope my opinion is considered a lesson, and very valuable too.
Now your arguing the use of the word instead of the subject at hand. To humor you the RI is BETTER than the Nova and all other T2 ships stats wise. That is undeniable and it is an unfair advantage to the player that buys it. Period. Is it a game breaker for T2 PvP? Debatable. Not the point. The RI is the first of the new ships to come out and a lot of players want to know if this is the blueprint for the new ships going up to T5 and above. That's the point of the discussion. Stop arguing semantics, if you have an argument other than quoting dictionaries please reply. As i said before these lines of argument only distract from the true point and do not add anything to the matter at hand.
And how do you level playing fields with someone with better skill? There is no system that I know of where the game levels the playing field. Can use a PvP league to set up matches between players with similar skills, but those require set rules and can be abused. For T2 PvP, this could be considered as an equalizer between people with less talent competing with people with more talent.
Obviously, my definition of OP and yours is different. Your definition is the same as mine of slightly better. I have said before that Power Comparison is a scale with slightly better, moderately better, and overpowered at the far end. An excess amount of force being used is OP IMO.
The RI is exactly the same as the Galaxy X. A completely worthless ship IMO. Having the RI won't make a player win anymore fights than they usually do. The fact that you have to pay for it, makes it less attractive than the benefits of 1 extra console and 1 extra Science Lt power. People are not going to be defeating mobs any easier than with a Nova.
This is why I love rock/paper/scissors. Its a self-balancing game.
Again making a point of something that is irrelevant. Yes, some people are better at PvP than other's. So What? That is a fact of every game that has ever had a multiplayer.
The RI is distinctly different from the Galaxy X because the Galaxy X has drawbacks to equal out its powers. The RI has no more disadvantages than the Nova but has a good deal of extra power.
That is Fact.
Your argument has nothing to do with the matter at hand. Besides that it is nothing more than a pitfall because it is something inherent in all games because of the fact that we do not live in an equal world. That is a fact that no one can change so arguing it it pointless.
See? You don't understand. The player is not the playing field.
The playing field is supposed to be level in order to offer an even chance for the competitors skills to be tested in competition. That's the entire point of this. You don't level the player's skills, because that is what is being tested in a competition.
Seriously, have you never played any sports before?
And this is why you don't bring a knife to a gunfight. But at the sametime, nor do you bring a tactical nuke.
Yeah, and now you can pay to play Rock/Paper/Scissors/Lizard/Spock against someone playing Rock/Paper/Scissors.
don't you mean rock/paper/scissors/NERVE PINCH in the case of the upcoming ships?;)
Works on the topic a hand, but wouldn't have been such a neat Big Bang Theory reference.
Sorry, not a fan of the show (only due to never seeing it). Off topic, how is it?
The players are part of the playing field. That is why you don't have NFL players going against High School Football players. An NFL player can expect a certain level of competence from the opposing team. Sure there is various levels of skill in the NFL or High School Football, but it is not at such a level where one is completely useless or dominates the game. With PvP, there is a mix of High School level players and NFL level players playing against each other since the public queue exists. Only way to have only competent level matches is to set up the PvP match personally with people you know are competent. It is not fun to fight PvP noobs if you are into the challenge of going against a decent opponent. However, this is a problem with PvP and not the RI and similar ships.
I could personally care less about the RI since it doesn't interest me. PvP doesn't interest me as well so I could care less what another person is using. Probably won't find many people except a vocal minority that care about these new X.5 ships being better about their counterparts since the world is filled with apathy about stuff that doesn't concern them.
No. They really aren't.
Actually you don't have high school football teams competing in the NFL because the NFL is the National Football League and there are no high school teams in that league. We don't have CFL teams competing in the NFL either because, again, they aren't part of the same league.
STO has one league. We're all in it.
Seriously dude... you're just being obtuse.
No, what you mean are the rules(that keep NFL from playing highschool teams) are part of the playing field. Rules and players are not the same thing.
Never said anything about NFL teams playing in High School leagues or High School teams playing in the NFL. I said NFL players playing against High School players which is possible. Not all matches have to have an audience. You can get a Football match together with CFL players, NFL players, and High School Football players as long as it is just for fun.
As far as STO being all one league, then that is debatable. Each player has their own personal preference of what part of STO we play in. A league means that everyone has the ability to play with each other. A person that only PvPs will not play with a person that only raids.
I love being obtuse since part of my handle is about being obtuse. Chaos is all about being obtuse.
Glad to provide some enjoyment, but my time in this thread is at an end.
Yes. Yes you did.
The fact of the matter is, the only requirement for being eligible for the NFL draft is that you have been out of high school for three years. There is no competency requirement.
After high school, once it's been three years, you can be in the draft and playing in the NFL if chosen. That's it. You need no more training, no college ball. Nothing.
So you're also wrong.
And NFL players do tend to play the game outside the NFL. You hear of Pros vs. Joes? There's an entire TV show devoted to regular blokes trying their mettle against professional athletes, NFL players included.
So again, you are wrong.
You can try and wiggle your way out of it, but it doesn't change the fact you haven't made a valid argument.
If it's "just for fun" then it's not a competition. So again, this does not apply.
You're right. Sort of. Because the majority of competitive modes in this game are tiered. Technically the tiers are each their own leagues. This is actually WHY the Rhode Island is broken.
Nope. Even if you're warming the bench you're on the team and in the league.
Don't ya just love metaphors that have nothing to do with anything and really do make sense anyway as an arguing point
so if being statisticly better then any other tier 2 ship isn't over powered define over powered?
Going to have to break my promise for a bit about staying out of this thread. Two definitions of overpowered being used in this thread, slightly better and overwhelming power. Me and the OP use the overwhelming power definition of overpowered while others use the slightly better definition. To me the RI would be overpowered if it could solo against 5 or more decent PvPers in T5 ships. Since I doubt that it can solo against 2 Novas, then it is not OP according to my definition.
:rolleyes:
Which of course (a) would never happen in game anyway, and (b) is so far beyond ridiculous that I am absolutely astonished and appalled that you would think that makes a legitimate argument for the ships.
:rolleyes: