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I've read the Rhode Island threads and it's all a bunch of cry baby nonsense.
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The Rhode Island is not even a overpowered ship. It may be better than any current T2 ship right now but as far as saying it's overpowered. Your all a bunch of whiners. You show me a Rhode Island ship that can defeat a T5 ship and I'll show you a Vice Admiral who doesn't know how to play the game. It's a better tier 2 ship without a doubt but guess what, people who buy things get better things, thats plain and simple. Overpowered is when you include beams that can penetrate shielding and do double the damage. Or maybe shields that can survive species 8472's weapons without even blinking.
Seriously Cryptic has to generate revenue and the way they do that is by selling things on C-Store. Nothing they have sold has been ridiculously overpowered. Truth is your all a bunch of whiners who don't want to pay for a Rhode Island but want to get it. Well guess what, if your all too cheap to buy it then get on the back of the bus and wait for it to come out in game purchase. The new Rhode Island is a great job and a fine addition to the game. It's not seriously overpowered and truth is if your a T5 captain and you can't defeat a Rhode Island class starship, take a good look at yourselves because the reality is you pretty much such at STO.
Nuff Said.
Seriously Cryptic has to generate revenue and the way they do that is by selling things on C-Store. Nothing they have sold has been ridiculously overpowered. Truth is your all a bunch of whiners who don't want to pay for a Rhode Island but want to get it. Well guess what, if your all too cheap to buy it then get on the back of the bus and wait for it to come out in game purchase. The new Rhode Island is a great job and a fine addition to the game. It's not seriously overpowered and truth is if your a T5 captain and you can't defeat a Rhode Island class starship, take a good look at yourselves because the reality is you pretty much such at STO.
Nuff Said.
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PS: It seems your thread is also "crybaby nonsense" about other people crying. So congrats on your own hypocrisy.
And what happens when you're in your tTier 5 ship-token reward ship cruising along, and someone in a Tier 5.5 ship comes along blows your face off with their overpowered ship? Are you going to wait and grind for weeks on end while having your ship blown up every other PVP match, to obtain the Tier5.5 ship in-game so that you can be competitive, or buy it from the C-store so you can get it straight away?
The Rhode Island is a horrible idea and sets a horrible precedent.
This, it is definitely overpowered for it's tier. It may be a rude awakening for some people, but PvP happens at all tiers (not as often as at tier 5, but it does), and the RI is significantly more powerful than other ships of it's tier thanks to the extra LT science BO slot. It's not an insurmountable advantage, but it is definitely far too much of one.
For a tier 5 comparison, It's like giving a fleet escort "refit" an extra Commander BO slot, giving them the ability to stack 2 copies of AP: O III or access to CSV and CRF III, AP: B and AP: D III...
Or how about a Star Cruiser "refit" getting access to another copy of DEM III, A2S III or RSP III...
This is exactly what is happening with the RI, and if you can't see how that isn't overpowered then... well I can't express my opinion without earning an infraction.
It has the potential to be, but after a lot of analyzing, I realized that the drawback is at the Lt.Cmdr.level. Where are you more apt to spend your skill points? On a Lt Sci skill you can't utilize again until you're a captain, or on a tec/eng skill you will very well may use at Cmdr? Cooldowns on a skill that has a skillpoint of 1 is more than double the cooldown time of a skill that's trained to 9.
Unfortunately, all intital analyses and assessments of the ship were done by VA's with Boff who skills are maxed.
The strategy of where to place the skill *is* the negative takeaway. You may get the benefits in the short term, but if you decide to upgrade tiers, you sacrifice the skillpoints in the tac/eng areas, because they are Lt stations, and you won't see the LT Sci station again until Captain (Tier 4).
That said, I still think it's setting a very bad precedent for the C-Store and how ships with the potential the RI refit has. The NX, TOS, and Oberth only added very minor, non-debateable slight advantages (only very minor).
I was more concerned about the console, quite frankly. Having said *all* of that, I'm still not buying such a useless ship. It should have been able to be obtainable in game, and at a higher tier.
To Tikonov: Your post does not explain why you think the RI is not OP'ed. See my post for an example. I strongly recommend you edit your post so you don't get dinged for an infraction. Whether you think so or not, I believe you violated forum rules.
Of course, this is not ultimately up to me to determine if that is the case.
Only until you get the 3.5 ship. Then your skill points are well invested again...
Well, actually it's still the best argument for drawback I have read. Sadly it didn't come from the people designing the ship.
Of course with two Lt science powers you have to spread out your limited skill points over 2 powers instead of one.
And here I think dStahls argument that the extra power is debatable might have some merit... a little bit.
What is more effective?
Two science powers running with a skill level of 4?
or one science power skilled to 8/9?
I agree 100% with what you said, which is one of the reasons why I think the RI refit is setting a horrible C-Store precedent while this game is totally pay 2 play.
It's also why I'm disappointed with DStahl's explanations, too. they could have been far more specific in this regard, instead of merely damage control.
Thank you.
I was going to post something rash and crude, but honestly I don't feel like getting my ban wagon trip due to people that have no concept of game mechanics.
it is pay 2 win. Seconded by that only Science get new toys, again. They are already the most dominant profession in the game. Now they just got themselves another new toy.
Please see my post regarding this matter. I think you may still disagree, but I think it has a ring of truth to it, at least until we see what the tier 3.5 looks like.
You know the STO forums people have to cry over something, I remember the nerd rage over the Nebular class.
All be forgotten in a week.
The bigger issue might be that characters playing their first character don't really know what to do with those powers and will definitely waste skill points. But what if you're a veteran, or get some help from a veteran (say, via the forums)?
But that is overall the problem - the ship is a mix of pay-to-win and a trap for newbies. And it still doesn't give people what they wanted from a Rhode Island Refit - a higher tier vessel so they could keep using it longer or even indefinitely.
Exactly.
.....
It's why I disagree with how they are rolling these ships out. It sets an ugly precedent, and a potential for that extra Lt Sci at tier 3.5, as you said.
For balance, I'm really curious as to what they *are* thinking about at tier 3.5. Actually, for all intents and purposes, the Nebula and Excelsior are kinda 3.5. It wouldn't surprise me if they kept the layouts similar with the new 3.5 tier ships. What's got me miffed is that you can't get this more advantageous ship in game like you can with the Excelsior and Nebula.
You make it sound like t2 pvp is pretty hopping. :P It isnt... no one really pvps until they get to VA or whatever the KDF version is.
My only qualm with the RI is that the console is hilariously bugged right now.
The previous retrofits are actually balanced with the other reg T5s, what i dont understand is why the R.I. was obviously and clearly never intended to be balanced. The GalX gets the lance/cloak/dhc abilities but loses a console and load of turnrate making the DHC ability pretty much all but worthless. DHC on galx = Negated. The cloak is only good for an alpha or serveying the battlefield, pretty worthless in pve, you give up a console to get it. -26% energy dmg console at VA lvl = Cloak - Virtually Negated. The lance, you get roughly the same dmg as a BO3 for what used to take the rear weapon slot,
The lance is on a long cooldown, with limited firing arc, limitied aoe potential from it. The turnrate also nearly negates this ability to nothing but an alpha or a lucky finishing move, a BO2 on your boff fires much more friequently, lets you use ANY dmg type not just PHASER, and you also could get that +26% phaser console back on the assault cruiser with more turn rate. Even though you basicly get the lance for free thanks to the 4th rear weapon slot being added on its still not much of a help.
End result phaser lance = religated to limited use no better than any current boff ability like it for the most part. So go ahead after my explaination tell me how the Galx is an OP ship, and I can do this break down for EVERY retrofit except 1, the R.I.
I own all the fed retrofits except the RI, if you play the game enough you know how much gaining a Boff slot can be. Thats why when the Excel didnt get a LTC tac, it swapped the LT tac with the LTC eng. It didnt out right gain more boff slots like the R.I. It gained dmg for sacing surviability which is a perfect solution hit harder get hit harder JUST like an escort.
R.I. doesnt just effect pve, there is low lvl pvp even if you dont do it others might. I said in another thread if they start off with a Tier no one cares about they can keep putting out more at higher tiers and say look we did it at T2 and you said nothing. They made it very clear they plan to do this to ALL tiers, I dont want to see 3 ships in pvp or pve i want diversity like in ST. BTW the NX/Oberth/TOS arent OP T1s, a single console slot giving all of 2-5% at that level is soooo neglagable its not even funny. But if you gave them a LT sci/tac/eng and the miranda nothing then yes it would be JUST LIKE THE RI.
End class. Stand. Bow. Dismissed.
The big descision one has to make with the tier 2.5 ship is "do I want the short cooldown now, or later when I upgrade?" If a true tier 3.5 ship comes out later, this decision may be eliminated, but I still don't want these ships in the C-Store *at all.*
The R.I. needs balanced just like the rest of them were, it should be a simple T2 not a T2.5. Either make it a
T2 or T3 no in between. The galaxy X was more like a 4.5 in power before its overhaul except that it was in the T5 bracket of ships making it under perform. This is the opposite.
The main worry is the precedent it sets, but even bigger than that really is it pollutes the game's brand new players. When they come in to the game and at LTC level they say "hey! theres PvP that i can do, lets try it." and they get destroyed by the RI they say "Oh i have to buy that with cash." and they'll either decide to do it or to get mad and leave the game. With them coming out with 16 new ship in all tiers that may or may not be this way (DStahl and others continually fail to say simply yes or no on that) these new players who decide to buy that ship are more likely to buy the others. When the player base is all buying these ships that ARE OP compared to the regular subscription ships, that DOES make it P2W.
Simple as that.
The only way to prove the RI is OP to the Nova is to set up a bunch of PvP matches between RI and Novas. Both players would have to have the same level of skill in PvP with one in the RI and one in the Nova. I believe the win/loss ratio should be about 50%. If the win/loss ratio is about 10%, then we have proof that the RI is OP.
Then it's OP. Thanks for your support.
No it doesn't. The terms means (not implies) that it is overpowered, as in, beyond the established power level (read: More powerful, you know, what you just acknowledged). That it is not balanced.
Simply put your argument is that any ship is better than any other depending on who's in it, I agree but it has nothing to do with what we're talking about. All it does is take attention away from the subject at hand. If you don't like people continuing to talk on this post about this subject then either make an intelligent argument or don't read the post. No one is forcing you.
Thing is, in every T2 ship I've every used, I have two on-specialty officers anyway, switching who has the Lt console depending on the situation, and I can keep both those guys comfortably supplied with BOff SP. With the RI, there is no need to choose, just always advantage. I don't see this as a valid drawback.