Okay...question for the pro/anti/don't-care groups. If Cryptic made a T5 TOS Connie that was only purchasable from the C-Store how many people would by it for 1,200 Atari Tokens? *edit* How many sales would be made
Count me out. Not because I don't think it should happen. I am of the "I don't care" variety. I alredy have the T0 Connie. It was a great boost for my T1 missions. I still fly it around from time to time on explore missions. To me it is nothing more than an Admiral's perk. That said, I will not lambast anyone who wishes to own one.
LotD, the primary hull of your design seems a little Doomsday Machine to me. Just sayin.
Funny you should say that. Originally the texture I used for it looked an awful lot like the Doomsday Machine, and my thought process in slimming the whole ship down from the bulky armored look of Sovereigns etc. was based on the idea that now having two of them, Starfleet would've used them to engineer more durable hull alloys.
Oh, and for my opening move, pawn teleports to E8 and takes your king.
(Whaaa! Why won't you let me have fun!?)
That's really not what's going on here. It's not about stoping you from having fun. You're not that important to any of us. It's about what appeals to some of us and what doesn't. Trampling on the facts established in the series, as flawed as they can at times be, is disrespectful to say the least.
The argument "because it's a game, anything goes" holds absolutely no water...
Umm, actually...pretty sure that argument wins out A LOT of time. That argument, coupled with C-Store money pretty much explains the NX class ship and most of the uniform packs.
Debatable but that doesn't make this campaign's tone any better.
Actually, other than two or three people who (habitually) can't give an inch, I've found the tone to be kinda relaxed. Way better than the "great cleavage-nerf debate of February '11", anyway.
That's really not what's going on here. It's not about stoping you from having fun.
Someone back on page 2 said that he doesn't want people flying old ships even if he can't see 'em, just out of principle. How dare they enjoy something different.
Trampling on the facts established in the series, as flawed as they can at times be, is disrespectful to say the least.
You know why IDIC exists? Product placement for the pendants Gene wanted to sell through his new jewelry business. The official Creation cons are notorious for being more about milking the franchise and attendees for money than fandom.
You're asking us to be more respectful of "canon" than the actual writers often were during the last forty-odd years. I could name some real howlers.
I feel I give Trek, and this game, the respect it deserves. I wish it could be better, I hope it might get better, but I'm also very aware of what it is. Some people believe it's declining from some mythical state of purity; I, on the other hand, think it would be hard for it to go anywhere but up.
I'll say it again, if you missed it in the other thread(s): spend half an hour in ESD, watching the people and listening to the zone chatter, and then try to tell me how serious and canon this game is.
Actually, other than two or three people who (habitually) can't give an inch, I've found the tone to be kinda relaxed. Way better than the "great cleavage-nerf debate of February '11", anyway.
Really? I thought that was internet gold! :rolleyes:
Easy, because they are based on entirely different design philosophies and engineering principles.
This statement says, "The Klingons can upgrade a ship better than Starfleet" and "Starfleet isn't capable of doing anything innovative".
Sorry, I don't buy that argument. You're telling me that Starfleet Engineers can't find creative ways to improve an old design (assuming it is an old design and not just a replica) as well as a Klingon Engineer can.
Federation and Klingon ships are built on entirely different fictional design philosophies and imaginary engineering principles.
So why can't we imagine that Starfleet Engineers figured out a way to do it?
What you're saying is if people complain for months, we can get it done too, right?
Which is why I'll keep complaining that it shouldn't happen. 1 or 2 tier jump is one thing, 4 is too much. If they had that kind of potential they would have been built that way to start with, new ships or not.
Which is why I'll keep complaining that it shouldn't happen. 1 or 2 tier jump is one thing, 4 is too much. If they had that kind of potential they would have been built that way to start with, new ships or not.
Oh please. You know someone is grasping at straws when they have to bring "freedom" and "pursuit of happiness" into an argument about what should be in a computer game.
Anyway, no one has responded to my original point I made all the way back on the first page, that if you upgrade the interior of the ship enough, it's no longer an NX or Constitution, it's an Akira or an Excalibur. I don't care if they get upgraded to T5 because that could make sense, but calling it an NX or Connie when it's 90% different from an NX or Connie is ridiculous. I even posted a recent example supporting my POV, from the US Navy (which Starfleet is most certainly based on)
Oh Please, you know someone is grasping at straws when the only thing they can say about your Kirk like speech is that you are grasping at straws.
This is an MMO. There will be a Tier 5 Connie. Here's how it works (Again)
People want something (Tier 5 Connie) and are willing to pay for it get the cookies.
People who only want to restrict other people from cookies due to their opinions get none.
Tier 5 Connie and NX will be "refits" available for emblems or purchasable in the C-Store. :cool:
And stop with the Tier jump already, they will be brand new Tier 5 ships that just look like the old ones.
Which is why I'll keep complaining that it shouldn't happen. 1 or 2 tier jump is one thing, 4 is too much. If they had that kind of potential they would have been built that way to start with, new ships or not.
Technically 3 jumps since I'm talking about the T2 Constitution/Excalibur. If you have the patience, read my proposal and tell me if it's just too hard to accept.
I just want my T6 TOS Enterprise so I can fly around in this game with a completely nostalgic feel from uniform to phaser pistol to ship I fly.
And this thread definitely makes the case that I can get a TOS Enterprise with T6 capability. Since it's just a replica of the ship that I should be able to buy on the C-Store.
Let's make this happen.
I never understood why people were so against a T-5 NX Enterprise, but yet embraced the hell out of a T5 Excelsior.
1) Are you sure you are speaking about the same group of people and don't lump different groups together. There are quite a few voices that say that a Tier 5 Excelsior is unreasonable.
2) The TOS has one particularly ugly drawback. It looks ancient and primitive. It just looks like the cheap specifial effects it were. Even the Phoenix looks more modern than the TOS Constitution. It's like having one of the old Japanese Godzilla versions appearing in Avatar - complete with zipper on the back.
1) Are you sure you are speaking about the same group of people and don't lump different groups together. There are quite a few voices that say that a Tier 5 Excelsior is unreasonable.
2) The TOS has one particularly ugly drawback. It looks ancient and primitive. It just looks like the cheap specifial effects it were. Even the Phoenix looks more modern than the TOS Constitution. It's like having one of the old Japanese Godzilla versions appearing in Avatar - complete with zipper on the back.
You say "ancient and primitive", I say "classic" - especially when detailed and remastered, as CBS did recently. Very much a mid-20th century Air Force or Navy aesthetic, though; if you're not into that, I can see where it wouldn't be your thing. But I also love the TMP refit, and the Sovereign.
Ok i will throw my opinion here
An older ship cannot be better than a new design. New ships are build this way, the engineers consider the pros and cons of older ships and they make better ones!!
But Navies around the world will upgrade their ships if its COST EFFECTIVE.
That cant be done in STO since to get that new ship all you have to do is rank up.
Finally to a man who wants the most of his ship he will go for the newest ship. An old ship CANT be equal with a new but it should be upgraded up to a lvl
Anything else just doesnt make sense
You say "ancient and primitive", I say "classic" - especially when detailed and remastered, as CBS did recently. Very much a mid-20th century Air Force or Navy aesthetic, though; if you're not into that, I can see where it wouldn't be your thing. But I also love the TMP refit, and the Sovereign.
Classic and primite and anciend are not mutually exclusive and it still leads to it sticking out.
But I still believe if Cryptic really cares about such issues, they need to come up with a view system that allows us to ignore other people's "costume" choices and enforce "standards".
If there is still a minority that disagrees on the principle that it's wrong if just one single person could see a TOS Constitution in Tier 5 PvP (the very person flying it), well, he can go do something that cannot be written on this forum.
Seriously, that's a level of small-mindedness nobody should need to cater to.
Comments
Count me out. Not because I don't think it should happen. I am of the "I don't care" variety. I alredy have the T0 Connie. It was a great boost for my T1 missions. I still fly it around from time to time on explore missions. To me it is nothing more than an Admiral's perk. That said, I will not lambast anyone who wishes to own one.
Funny you should say that. Originally the texture I used for it looked an awful lot like the Doomsday Machine, and my thought process in slimming the whole ship down from the bulky armored look of Sovereigns etc. was based on the idea that now having two of them, Starfleet would've used them to engineer more durable hull alloys.
(Whaaa! Why won't you let me have fun!?)
That's really not what's going on here. It's not about stoping you from having fun. You're not that important to any of us. It's about what appeals to some of us and what doesn't. Trampling on the facts established in the series, as flawed as they can at times be, is disrespectful to say the least.
/10char
Umm, actually...pretty sure that argument wins out A LOT of time. That argument, coupled with C-Store money pretty much explains the NX class ship and most of the uniform packs.
Sorry you don't like it, thou.
Actually, other than two or three people who (habitually) can't give an inch, I've found the tone to be kinda relaxed. Way better than the "great cleavage-nerf debate of February '11", anyway.
You know why IDIC exists? Product placement for the pendants Gene wanted to sell through his new jewelry business. The official Creation cons are notorious for being more about milking the franchise and attendees for money than fandom.
You're asking us to be more respectful of "canon" than the actual writers often were during the last forty-odd years. I could name some real howlers.
I feel I give Trek, and this game, the respect it deserves. I wish it could be better, I hope it might get better, but I'm also very aware of what it is. Some people believe it's declining from some mythical state of purity; I, on the other hand, think it would be hard for it to go anywhere but up.
I'll say it again, if you missed it in the other thread(s): spend half an hour in ESD, watching the people and listening to the zone chatter, and then try to tell me how serious and canon this game is.
Really? I thought that was internet gold! :rolleyes:
Ah, yes...who doesn't like to discuss the pros and cons of pixellated side-boobage?
Maybe we can roll these two threads into one. Think we could talk the devs into building a Tier 5 Connie refit that comes with tasteful cleavage?
pros? cons? Discuss.
This statement says, "The Klingons can upgrade a ship better than Starfleet" and "Starfleet isn't capable of doing anything innovative".
Sorry, I don't buy that argument. You're telling me that Starfleet Engineers can't find creative ways to improve an old design (assuming it is an old design and not just a replica) as well as a Klingon Engineer can.
Federation and Klingon ships are built on entirely different fictional design philosophies and imaginary engineering principles.
So why can't we imagine that Starfleet Engineers figured out a way to do it?
Answer: Because you don't want to.
one of the advantages of being an Admiral: you can have any ship you want.:p
That quote has nothing to do with how powerful a ship is
And yet he upgraded a ship from T4 to T5...
No he didn't. He upgraded a ship from T4 to T4.5, wasn't happy about it, complained to Starfleet command about it for months...and THEN to T5.
Get it right, sheesh >.>
But he still got it done in the end.
What you're saying is if people complain for months, we can get it done too, right?
Which is why I'll keep complaining that it shouldn't happen. 1 or 2 tier jump is one thing, 4 is too much. If they had that kind of potential they would have been built that way to start with, new ships or not.
+1
10 characters
Oh Please, you know someone is grasping at straws when the only thing they can say about your Kirk like speech is that you are grasping at straws.
This is an MMO. There will be a Tier 5 Connie. Here's how it works (Again)
People want something (Tier 5 Connie) and are willing to pay for it get the cookies.
People who only want to restrict other people from cookies due to their opinions get none.
Tier 5 Connie and NX will be "refits" available for emblems or purchasable in the C-Store. :cool:
And stop with the Tier jump already, they will be brand new Tier 5 ships that just look like the old ones.
Technically 3 jumps since I'm talking about the T2 Constitution/Excalibur. If you have the patience, read my proposal and tell me if it's just too hard to accept.
Then what are you wasting your energy on? You must seem to think it might not happen if your going on like this about it. And.. it won't.
1) Are you sure you are speaking about the same group of people and don't lump different groups together. There are quite a few voices that say that a Tier 5 Excelsior is unreasonable.
2) The TOS has one particularly ugly drawback. It looks ancient and primitive. It just looks like the cheap specifial effects it were. Even the Phoenix looks more modern than the TOS Constitution. It's like having one of the old Japanese Godzilla versions appearing in Avatar - complete with zipper on the back.
Again... all excellent points
An older ship cannot be better than a new design. New ships are build this way, the engineers consider the pros and cons of older ships and they make better ones!!
But Navies around the world will upgrade their ships if its COST EFFECTIVE.
That cant be done in STO since to get that new ship all you have to do is rank up.
Finally to a man who wants the most of his ship he will go for the newest ship. An old ship CANT be equal with a new but it should be upgraded up to a lvl
Anything else just doesnt make sense
But I still believe if Cryptic really cares about such issues, they need to come up with a view system that allows us to ignore other people's "costume" choices and enforce "standards".
If there is still a minority that disagrees on the principle that it's wrong if just one single person could see a TOS Constitution in Tier 5 PvP (the very person flying it), well, he can go do something that cannot be written on this forum.
Seriously, that's a level of small-mindedness nobody should need to cater to.