Disable hypers in frost, yes, no or LV restricted? FORGOTTEN THREAD

Malei - Sanctuary · September 2013

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Those two bosses arent hard to kill anyway. Correct levels? That's stupid *** hell. I don't see a level bracket listed by the culti/FB quest, do you? I skip the whole 'FB' thing anyway, people what to spend an hr looking for mobs fine, but I wont be participating.

Funny. I've seen Pole and Nob take down 101+ R9s that probably thought that same thing. b:chuckle

Skipping content for alts because you've experienced it a couple of times already? Okay. New players coming in, being power leveled, charging for end game gear, and then dying in BH59 runs with G16/R9 on. No.

Toliman - Raging Tide · September 2013

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

Funny. I've seen Pole and Nob take down 101+ R9s that probably thought that same thing. b:chuckle

Skipping content for alts because you've experienced it a couple of times already? Okay. New players coming in, being power leveled, charging for end game gear, and then dying in BH59 runs with G16/R9 on. No.

I saw high-level players, which not know, where are bosses in dungeons.

And sometimes barbarian of same level as me or even less tanked better in bh69, than level 100+ character just because barbarian had more hit points and more physical defense.

Brillance - Raging Tide · September 2013

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide wrote: »

It's a lot of the responses to this thread and the original that have made me feel that PWI is doomed. When? Don't know and dont care any longer. As a casual gamer that likes the slow trip from beginning to end, even if it takes a couple of years...when reaching endgame is far to easy to accomplish, the game is no longer for me. As I have said, I will occasionally play my alts, level them slowly, hope to find correct level squads, and when it becomes too much of a chore to do so, as it is quickly becoming, then this chapter in MMOs will be closed, my armor stowed away, my weapons retired, and I will search for some game that has most of what PWI could have been, but doesn't fail miserably at.

The cup has sprung another hole.

There have been no new players coming into the game at a rate any low level can make any use of for at least 2 years on our server, more like 2 and a half. There were still new players coming in when I started my Mystic, but it seems like 6 months later, that party was over. Im amazed you have lasted as long as you did, and never got the urge to rush leveling even a little bit - even while spending so much time alone. I guess that questing content isnt that great, huh?

Maybe you play during what for me is daytime, and that has been the saving grace for you. The server is a lot more active when Im at work, although we are both EST. Night time on our server is just a bunch of catshops, and people hanging out in Arch or 1K, for the most part.

Im also amazed so many people would rather just make the game miserable for someone that has found a niche to keep them going, instead of simply asking the game to do what they should have been doing all along. Advertise and fix its gear discrepancy.

We are alleged to have another expansion coming, so maybe a little advertising will come along with that? *shrugs*

With classes starting again, the little 3 week boom in August we experienced of old players coming back is already over. Saw that last night. The cold and lonely Winter soon begins.

It seems you have already put a lot of time into playing the way you claim to like to play. If you arent liking it anymore, maybe try hypering in frost. It would be somthing new for you, afterall.

People complaining shouldnt make a dedicated player want to leave. It should make them want to see it improve, and in logical ways that wont risk losing anymore players.

I said the same thing as you a couple times - and both times after a month or so Im back. This game has something going for it, but for whatever reason that has been ignored and for too long by management.

Keep on keeping on! The players who hyper-leveled FC, and are now hypering PV will be. b:victory

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

I saw high-level players, which not know, where are bosses in dungeons.

And sometimes barbarian of same level as me or even less tanked better in bh69, than level 100+ character just because barbarian had more hit points and more physical defense.

Yep Im one of them. There are a lot of bosses that Idk where they are, if I never solo'd the dungeon. A lot of that has to do with my class. Im a Mystic, and we are very slow to move, so logicly I have spent most of my time following the herd. With the issues associated with BHs, mainly focusing on drop rates, hacks and the amount of luck a player has, I have no reason to want to do them other than for my Culti.

Want to say I have no luck? Want to say only 1 or 2 people has any luck all the time? Okies. Fine, our luck sucks. Someone needs to fix that, lol. b:chuckle

ResMePls - Heavens Tear · September 2013

W0w pe0ple still c0mplain ab0ut FF l0l?? 5 years 0f this game ev0lving and maj0rity n0t caring 0r adapting and still s0me finding r00m t0 make it an issue.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · September 2013

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

It seems you have already put a lot of time into playing the way you claim to like to play. If you arent liking it anymore, maybe try hypering in frost. It would be somthing new for you, afterall.

As someone who share's Wickedbrew's mindset on this, I can tell you that this would be a poor substitute at best. People assume "oh, if you're bored of the lowgame, then just abuse frost because it'll be faster that way." Problem is, we're not bored of the lowgame because it's slow... we're bored of the lowgame because nobody plays it anymore, and that's because people are impatient and fall prey to power creep. So when people tell us "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em," we're far more likely to take the third option... which is to just quit. I can't speak for Wicked, but for me, being forced to level alts in Frost to accomplish anything would defeat the entire purpose of the game and I'd have literally no reason to play anymore.

_Aphrael_ - Sanctuary · September 2013

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As someone who share's Wickedbrew's mindset on this, I can tell you that this would be a poor substitute at best. People assume "oh, if you're bored of the lowgame, then just abuse frost because it'll be faster that way." Problem is, we're not bored of the lowgame because it's slow... we're bored of the lowgame because nobody plays it anymore, and that's because people are impatient and fall prey to power creep. So when people tell us "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em," we're far more likely to take the third option... which is to just quit. I can't speak for Wicked, but for me, being forced to level alts in Frost to accomplish anything would defeat the entire purpose of the game and I'd have literally no reason to play anymore.

I agree entirely wiht you and WickedBrew, it all seems to be about instant gratification now days, if it doesnt come quickly and easily i'm not going to do it. What happened to the journey being more important that the destination.

it all reminds of a discussion i had when the lord of the rings films 1st came out. Everyone loved them but could i convince anyone who hadnt already to read the book, nope. So many people just replied it huge and would take to long. Yes it is a long book, i read it once a year and have done for over a decade. But you get a hundred times more out of reading it that you ever could by watching the films.

Brillance - Raging Tide · September 2013

Im not saying anyone should change what they like to do. I play the game alone, and have for most of my time on it.

I am only presenting trying Frost as an alternative to the dilemma, considering that removing content for the one's you believe would be out there along side you - from level 75 and below - would solve your issues - is a risk for the company, and for every other player that isnt at a particular level that is helpful for you. Those above you risk losing population too. Is it worth the risk?

I dont think you should do anything you dont want to do, just as I wouldn't. But overtime my mindset has changed, and tried to adapt to changes in the game. Started out directed at leveling and doing TWs. Something changed, and to make a long story short, I am now a farm toon. b:chuckle

Is it ideal? Not at all. But it is an angle that keeps me involved and playing. All I am saying is perhaps you could try looking for another angle. b:thanks

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide · September 2013

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Im not saying anyone should change what they like to do. I play the game alone, and have for most of my time on it.

I am only presenting trying Frost as an alternative to the dilemma, considering that removing content for the one's you believe would be out there along side you - from level 75 and below - would solve your issues - is a risk for the company, and for every other player that isnt at a particular level that is helpful for you. Those above you risk losing population too. Is it worth the risk?

I dont think you should do anything you dont want to do, just as I wouldn't. But overtime my mindset has changed, and tried to adapt to changes in the game. Started out directed at leveling and doing TWs. Something changed, and to make a long story short, I am now a farm toon. b:chuckle

Is it ideal? Not at all. But it is an angle that keeps me involved and playing. All I am saying is perhaps you could try looking for another angle. b:thanks

That's the thing, I did full FC runs on my BM from around level 90 up when FC is a viable instance. Even up to holeen. Did it on my psychic as well from around level 85, again when its a viable instance. An instance made for level 75+. You can't open FC before that level so why should anyone below level 75 be allowed to reap the rewards of the heads room, or even join a full FC, where *join* is a matter of opinion. A level 35 running behind a high level does not make for being part of a squad. Besides that, I did enough full FC runs, I can do it in my sleep. I did enough of them that I cannot stand FC any longer. Same with PV. Though at least PV is set up for certain levels.

PWE killed squads for the casual gamers when they reduced the mobs needed for most quests. When we had to kill 50+ mobs, it was fun to find someone else in the area, whisper them asking if they were on the same quest, and join in. I made some good friends back then that way. Now, kill 10 mobs...anyone can solo that within a couple of minutes. There is no squad needed, not that there was with more mobs, but the social interaction was more viable.

PWE has all but killed this game. As I have said before, they could remove everything for PvE, except FC, PV, and the 100+ BHs, and more than likely most wouldn't notice since through their blinders, that's all they see. I don't care what anyone says... FC needs a level restriction, and again as its been said before, when hypers were broken, that week was awesome, at least to me. People were doing low level BHs. They were questing, they were doing PV, etc. A casual gamer can reach level 75 fairly easy in a matter of two weeks, at most three. These FC junkies could easily do it in a week without FC, unfortunately the mentality of young, naive basement dwellers, is endgame or no game. And thinking any MMO should allow one to reach level cap in a month or less. Sorry, games like that do not survive long and PWE has shortened PWI's longevity by creating this disease called speed leveling.

Quilue - Sanctuary · September 2013

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide wrote: »

PWE killed squads for the casual gamers when they reduced the mobs needed for most quests. When we had to kill 50+ mobs, it was fun to find someone else in the area, whisper them asking if they were on the same quest, and join in. I made some good friends back then that way. Now, kill 10 mobs...anyone can solo that within a couple of minutes. There is no squad needed, not that there was with more mobs, but the social interaction was more viable.

Nope. Contrary to what you may believe, people couldn't always find squads back then either. We would get heavies on fac chat needing help on certain mobs because it was simply too damn impossible, and having to kill 50-60 of such mobs at that was stupid. Many of us helped fac mates and killed mobs that we didn't have a quest for. This was back when nobody was even lv 100.

Especially now, with even less people at quest areas, some of those quests would be completely stupid to do alone. With so many other options for exp, and I'm just talking about dailies not hyper, it makes total sense to decrease the amount of mobs per quest to attract people to actually bother doing them.

Most people would just grind Jolly Jone's quest anyway. If you still want to keep the quests with 50+ mobs where the reward is like 20k coins you're just being unrealistic. PWI didn't mess up on this one.

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide · September 2013

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Nope. Contrary to what you may believe, people couldn't always find squads back then either. We would get heavies on fac chat needing help on certain mobs because it was simply too damn impossible, and having to kill 50-60 of such mobs at that was stupid. Many of us helped fac mates and killed mobs that we didn't have a quest for. This was back when nobody was even lv 100.

Especially now, with even less people at quest areas, some of those quests would be completely stupid to do alone. With so many other options for exp, and I'm just talking about dailies not hyper, it makes total sense to decrease the amount of mobs per quest to attract people to actually bother doing them.

Most people would just grind Jolly Jone's quest anyway. If you still want to keep the quests with 50+ mobs where the reward is like 20k coins you're just being unrealistic. PWI didn't mess up on this one.

Maybe it was that way on Sanctuary, but I never really had a problem on RT. More.often than not, I found one or two others, sometimes more, working on the 50+ mob quests, and would either start, or join squads. Then we would find quests in our available quest log that we had together and knock those out as well. Or maybe I was just lucky back then in finding other casual gamers that were not trying to level as fast as possible.

Also you talk about being unrealistic because of doing quests where the reward was small or insignificant....I personally never cared about the reward at the end. I just enjoyed doing, OMG shhhhhh, I'm going to say it...."quests"

Colum - Raging Tide · September 2013

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide wrote: »

Maybe it was that way on Sanctuary, but I never really had a problem on RT. More.often than not, I found one or two others, sometimes more, working on the 50+ mob quests, and would either start, or join squads. Then we would find quests in our available quest log that we had together and knock those out as well. Or maybe I was just lucky back then in finding other casual gamers that were not trying to level as fast as possible.

Also you talk about being unrealistic because of doing quests where the reward was small or insignificant....I personally never cared about the reward at the end. I just enjoyed doing, OMG shhhhhh, I'm going to say it...."quests"

Feel free to PM this barb whenever/if you are online and have lvl 70-99 toons to quest with because I got like 8 alts around those levels.

Toliman - Raging Tide · September 2013

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

...

Yep Im one of them. There are a lot of bosses that Idk where they are, if I never solo'd the dungeon. A lot of that has to do with my class. Im a Mystic, and we are very slow to move, so logicly I have spent most of my time following the herd. With the issues associated with BHs, mainly focusing on drop rates, hacks and the amount of luck a player has, I have no reason to want to do them other than for my Culti.

Want to say I have no luck? Want to say only 1 or 2 people has any luck all the time? Okies. Fine, our luck sucks. Someone needs to fix that, lol. b:chuckle

I don't think, that Wizards have more speed, than Mystics or Clerics (although we have Distance Shrink).

But I had been more than 20 times in each fb dungeon (fb/bh59 is my favorite though, more than 200 may be).

I really played while you had skipped quests/instances of the game.

Edit:
I have Mystic level 41 and Cleric level 83, so I know where and how they can walk.

bobyjoee · September 2013

"Disable hypers in frost, yes, no or LV restricted?"

You guys realize that if this happens ever (which it wont so im not sure why this discussion is even going on) that this game will cease to exist?

FC and getting to end game is really the only thing keeping this game going, and if that starts to take a long time in this current game market people are going to move on to better games. please think about cause and effect.

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide · September 2013

bobyjoee wrote: »

"Disable hypers in frost, yes, no or LV restricted?"

You guys realize that if this happens ever (which it wont so im not sure why this discussion is even going on) that this game will cease to exist?

FC and getting to end game is really the only thing keeping this game going, and if that starts to take a long time in this current game market people are going to move on to better games. please think about cause and effect.

Actually, I think there are many that think the way I do, that the only time endgame is a positive outcome is when you take the time to reach it and experience a game like PWI as it was originally intended. As I have said before, MMOs that take a player to level cap, or close to it, quickly (matter of months to less than a year), tend to have a very short shelf life.

Unfortunately the mindset I have stated tends to be more embraced by those who have been playing MMOs longer than some of the parental basement dwellers of today, that have a non existent patience level and want everything handed to them. They barely notice (if they even notice at all) the game, the level of detail that goes into the design, the creativity of the land and its mobs, the quest/story lines. All they see is XP, and the means to get as much of it as fast as they can so they can run around and look "cool" because they are a high level.

Personally, I think the damage packs, hypers, and FC has caused is irreversible. They helped doom the game to a slow death, of which it has been suffering for a while now, but is really beginning to be noticeable with the population dwindling more and more each month.

Brillance - Raging Tide · September 2013

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

I don't think, that Wizards have more speed, than Mystics or Clerics (although we have Distance Shrink).

But I had been more than 20 times in each fb dungeon (fb/bh59 is my favorite though, more than 200 may be).

I really played while you had skipped quests/instances of the game.
Edit:
I have Mystic level 41 and Cleric level 83, so I know where and how they can walk.

You assume quite a lot for some who claims they have played, and would testify that I did not.

Not only are Mystics very good DD, they are also buffers, debuffers, and yes! You guessed it...Healers! If you are playing your level 41 Mystic, then you know you have to watch everything to play it fully.

Dont use me to puff up your chest, thanks. Try to find something about yourself to make it all puffy. b:chuckle

Miugre - Heavens Tear · September 2013

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Nope. Contrary to what you may believe, people couldn't always find squads back then either. We would get heavies on fac chat needing help on certain mobs because it was simply too damn impossible, and having to kill 50-60 of such mobs at that was stupid. Many of us helped fac mates and killed mobs that we didn't have a quest for. This was back when nobody was even lv 100.

Especially now, with even less people at quest areas, some of those quests would be completely stupid to do alone. With so many other options for exp, and I'm just talking about dailies not hyper, it makes total sense to decrease the amount of mobs per quest to attract people to actually bother doing them.

Most people would just grind Jolly Jone's quest anyway. If you still want to keep the quests with 50+ mobs where the reward is like 20k coins you're just being unrealistic. PWI didn't mess up on this one.

In the end, it's just another instance of wanmei breaking what isn't broken instead of fixing what is. There's no reason quests couldn't have been updated with rewards worthy of the players' time. If a quest calls for 80 mobs, have it be 80 mobs... but then give the player a 100-200k exp for it and equivalent coins. Then throw in some special item rewards - use the Mystic Verdant Jade you get from Tigers/Jungle/etc. for the higher leveled quests. Hell, throw in packs for the important quests. Can you imagine being given five packs every 10 levels when you finish your culti, or do some huge boring go-fer quest?

Also, I can't think of any regular quest mob that isn't soloable by any class. You just have to be smart with how you handle them. As in, don't approach that cluster of ten Spinewraiths with your barb, just pick off the stragglers on the side or use a genie pull. 99.99% of mob killing quests are mind-numbingly easy no matter how many mobs you have to kill.

ovenusarmanio · September 2013

With a level restricted FF, you'd be level 75 long before you had to grind like 80 mobs. The quests have already been fixed, JS. They also added free charms, so no more lame meditating. Some of the quests are even different and more varied, such as the seasonal quests and the revamped 50+ quests. I mean, unlike the token of seven. One of the quests has you kill a boss with an ancient artifact, by actually using it. It cuts his defense and HP by a ton, and makes it go from ages and ages to kill to quick and easy. Its' cheesy but it's a fun quest and for once one of the artifacts really do feel powerful. You get transformed into a turtle, a robot, etc. it just would take a couple of weeks (or even a few days if you completely no-life it in a weekend) to get to 70 if you know what you are doing. New players don't, so it would take them longer. But the value in finding someone to show you the ropes, teach you what it takes to be your class, quest with, talk to, etc would do a lot for new customers. And for the ones that quit before all that, it would do a lot to inspire confidence in the game and they'd be less likely to quit. Few people want to play a completely empty MMO.

Toliman - Raging Tide · September 2013

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

You assume quite a lot for some who claims they have played, and would testify that I did not.

Not only are Mystics very good DD, they are also buffers, debuffers, and yes! You guessed it...Healers! If you are playing your level 41 Mystic, then you know you have to watch everything to play it fully... b:chuckle

My mystic had not used healing skills for other players even once.

He has few hundreds of potions to heal himself and not use them.

Sorry, but I know, how to use pets (just to guard Mystic from sudden attack of extra mobs, which got aggro) and powerful combo Nature's Vengeance/Absorb Soul, then repeat.

Also, he has all types of pets and herbs (including healing), which he could get at his level.

And I want to remind you ... bh squads are rare and I can (but I dont want to do it) do it in duo with my Cleric level 83.

My main is Wizard, not Mystic, but my Mystic has best possible equipment for his level (not from Dreamchaser packs).

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver · September 2013

really playing =/= solo grinding/mob by mob instance soloing. even BMH is tremendously harder.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · September 2013

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

really playing =/= solo grinding/mob by mob instance soloing. even BMH is tremendously harder.

Well since you clearly seem to know the one and only answer to this... what does count as "really playing?" :P

ovenusarmanio · September 2013

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

really playing =/= solo grinding/mob by mob instance soloing. even BMH is tremendously harder.

BMH is not harder at level 1 because you just stand there out of the way. Don't exaggerate, it takes more effort on your part to do something than not do something. I mean some of these alts can't even kill the heads and have stand there while everyone else does it. They have not learned a single thing about playing their class doing that, not one. And one of the better ways to level would become PV. PV soloing is fantastic pull experience for bms/seekers and such, and great exp. Other classes would have to squad up but it would be good experience. Not to mention there is BH. Saying you would have to grind mobs one by one and kill 80 at a time if there was a level cap on FF is dishonest. For one thing, those requirements are no longer a part of the game. And for another by the time you have the gear to do FF pulls yourself, you'd also be at the cap for entry. You can learn squad play from either FF or BH, but learning it from FF alienates new players by leaving them with a ghost town and an already large bill for a supposedly F2P game. That doesn't inspire consumer confidence.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver · September 2013

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well since you clearly seem to know the one and only answer to this... what does count as "really playing?" :P

how do you deduce that? I could just know that killing mobs one by one hardly teaches you anything besides spamming F1

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

BMH is not harder at level 1 because you just stand there out of the way. Don't exaggerate, it takes more effort on your part to do something than not do something.

lvl1: standing out of the way -> being aware of boss aoes, accept advice from people that know more

lvl30+: killing heads -> tab kill, learn which is your fastest skill, fast aoes, learn to quickly judge whether to aoe or single hit depending on squad size/formation, learn appropriate genie skills and quickly judge whether to use it in order to preserve the genie energy for when it's *really* needed

lvl75+: kill mobs -> everything you'd learn from the traditional zhen

lvl80~5+: kill boss -> boss aoes, boss tricks, coordination/communication (who gets hands?)

furthermore, it indicates that the player has at least some will to learn about the game in some other way besides playing it; which is the only reasonably fast way to achieve true mastery.

ok, it is a bit of exaggeration but it will definitely not result in:

My mystic had not used healing skills for other players even once.

Sorry, but I know, how to use pets (just to guard Mystic from sudden attack of extra mobs, which got aggro) and powerful combo Nature's Vengeance/Absorb Soul, then repeat.

anything can be played sub-optimally. I've seen tons of psys sticking in white voodoo for the whole bh run (2y ago...)

ovenusarmanio · September 2013

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lvl1: standing out of the way -> being aware of boss aoes, accept advice from people that know more

lvl30+: killing heads -> tab kill, learn which is your fastest skill, fast aoes, learn to quickly judge whether to aoe or single hit depending on squad size/formation, learn appropriate genie skills and quickly judge whether to use it in order to preserve the genie energy for when it's *really* needed

With a level cap, 75+ gameplay would not change. Very few sellers tell people about the boss aoes, they just tell you stand over there. New players tend to already take advice. And this could be learned elsewhere, anyway. BH29, in fact. Other people with alts already know about aoes, and know their cant take it. You know the difference being told to stand back in 29 and stand back in heads? 29 can only be done once a day, so you'll have to go out and quest and interact with others if you want to continue to level that day.

Most people just use a bow on heads, I've sold many of these and have participated in many of them. Because I'm not dumb enough not to take advantage, even if I do recognize it's a problem. Won't repeat the goons mistake, anyway....almost nobody uses their aoes. The ones that do are mostly just wizzies in db. Also, it gives misconceptions about genie skills. For example, earthquake is not a super powerful skil, even if it gives that impression when you are one-shotting the heads with it. It's mostly useful only as knockback, the mobs would have to have more hp and fight back to know that. I also quest though and offer help with lowbie stuff.

And why should not doing the content be more rewarding than doing the content, especially when it comes at the cost of driving away new customers? That's a sign of poorly designed content. They already overhauled the lowbie quests, so what's left? The thing killing them. Like Nation Wars killed nirvana. As long as the incentive is to skip content rather than play it, that is what people will do. You give incentive to do the content, they will do that instead.

And yes players will be fail or make false assumptions in the early gameplay they later learn is wrong. They wouldn't have to learn that the hard way if there were people they could ask. When you were new, was there a player that mentored your or showed you the ropes? Did you do stupid things like assign your stat points to all the stats because you wanted a "balanced" character. Or put points in magic on a melee class because you thought it would help you use skills more? Do you remember meeting new people and making friends? Why wouldn't you want them to incentivize that type of level of interaction with others?

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver · September 2013

Ultimately there is a limit to what PvE can teach you and 95% of it goes out the window when you enter the world of PvP.

In my opinion flame me if you want but the optimal scenario is fc hyper with a bunch of friends rolling a bunch of different toons and in between go in PK mode go to random spot in world map and duke it out all day. Try out all your new skills as you learn them see what works what combos are good learn about each others classes blah blah. Do the PvE instances like BHs which should be a piece of cake fighting a mob with practically zero AI.

Hypering fc is fine. Spam killing mobs all day teaches you nothing, doing 'quests' aka spam kill mobs teaches you nothing.

PvP is the endgame, PvE is just a means to get there.

ovenusarmanio · September 2013

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ultimately there is a limit to what PvE can teach you and 95% of it goes out the window when you enter the world of PvP.

In my opinion flame me if you want but the optimal scenario is fc hyper with a bunch of friends rolling a bunch of different toons and in between go in PK mode go to random spot in world map and duke it out all day. Try out all your new skills as you learn them see what works what combos are good learn about each others classes blah blah. Do the PvE instances like BHs which should be a piece of cake fighting a mob with practically zero AI.

Hypering fc is fine. Spam killing mobs all day teaches you nothing, doing 'quests' aka spam kill mobs teaches you nothing.

PvP is the endgame, PvE is just a means to get there.

Majority of people do not even have endgame gear, as confirmed by GMs. A lot of people do not pvp, and most never participate in endgame pvp. It's nice that is what you find fun, but it isn't for everyone. PVE content should be well designed so that is fun for players new and old. And quite frankly a lot of those new players that got turned away, are people that would may have spent money and become a fun opponent had the game inspired any confidence in them that it would be fun. You want them to spend money (keep servers running) and play with you in PVP, you gotta show them a good time when they first start. Otherwise, many of them will quit. And it is obvious that the influx of new players had diminished. The fact that the game appears to be super dead and empty when you first make a new character and dont' know anyone or what to do, doesn't help.

Toliman - Raging Tide · September 2013

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...

anything can be played sub-optimally. I've seen tons of psys sticking in white voodoo for the whole bh run (2y ago...)

What you mean ?

My Mystic kill mobs faster, than pet could run to them and I use pet just to guard from extra mobs.

My low-level Psychic has more than 1,000,000 of extra spirit and all skills at maximum.

I not see anything useful for bh squads for my Mystic since I don't want to level him faster than he can now.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver · September 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

With a level cap, 75+ gameplay would not change.
fair enough
Very few sellers tell people about the boss aoes, they just tell you stand over there. New players tend to already take advice. And this could be learned elsewhere, anyway. BH29, in fact. Other people with alts already know about aoes, and know their cant take it. You know the difference being told to stand back in 29 and stand back in heads? 29 can only be done once a day, so you'll have to go out and quest and interact with others if you want to continue to level that day.

um hum? are you referring to the tower killing? quests at 30+ end way to fast though..

Most people just use a bow on heads,
true...it's the lazy way

-snip-

I'm not arguing that a full game experience should -actually, MUST- be more than BMH.
but I'm saying that, as far as training is concerned, solo grinding one by one mobs is worse than killing heads, especially with the current dreamchaser armor+free charms+free +5 refines.

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

My Mystic kill mobs faster, than pet could run to them and I use pet just to guard from extra mobs.
that comment was not referring to your mystic. the problem with your mystic is that, as you have admitted yourself, you have 0 experience in healing others and utilising plants/summons. for the record, you might even improve your grinding speed if the pet was used to attack mobs simultaneously with you

My low-level Psychic has more than 1,000,000 of extra spirit and all skills at maximum.
cool story bro. but for the record, maxing everything is not a sign of expertise, it's a sign of abundance of resources.

I not see anything useful for bh squads for my Mystic since I don't want to level him faster than he can now.
just as "fc babies" don't see anything useful from grinding mobs. both of you are skipping content/training and result with potentially suboptimal performance which will hurt a future squad. does it matter? dunno.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver · September 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Majority of people do not even have endgame gear, as confirmed by GMs. A lot of people do not pvp, and most never participate in endgame pvp. It's nice that is what you find fun, but it isn't for everyone. PVE content should be well designed so that is fun for players new and old. And quite frankly a lot of those new players that got turned away, are people that would may have spent money and become a fun opponent had the game inspired any confidence in them that it would be fun. You want them to spend money (keep servers running) and play with you in PVP, you gotta show them a good time when they first start. Otherwise, many of them will quit. And it is obvious that the influx of new players had diminished. The fact that the game appears to be super dead and empty when you first make a new character and dont' know anyone or what to do, doesn't help.

A PvE player will never know more about their class than a PvP player, end of story. PvP is a complex thing sometimes, it forces you to know not only what the opponent can do, but the know your class, AND your limits with your particular toon. PvE can be done with basic gears, PvP can not. You don't have to cash, but if your want to be competative it also forces you to learn how to make mass amounts of money, where as once again, PvE does not.

Toliman - Raging Tide · September 2013

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...
that comment was not referring to your mystic. the problem with your mystic is that, as you have admitted yourself, you have 0 experience in healing others and utilising plants/summons. for the record, you might even improve your grinding speed if the pet was used to attack mobs simultaneously with you

...
just as "fc babies" don't see anything useful from grinding mobs. both of you are skipping content/training and result with potentially suboptimal performance which will hurt a future squad. does it matter? dunno.

I will not use them in squads... both Mystic and Psychic.

My main is Wizard and I play using him in squads or solo. In most cases solo or in duo with Cleric, because bh squads are rare or dangerous for my characters (random fc strangers in bh can kill whole bh squad).

Sometimes I use bh to get experience for my Cleric, but very rare (gap between level of Wizard and Cleric 4 levels already).

Edit:
Also ... pet near my Mystic, that can take aggro of sudden nearby mob is better, than pet, which run forward and back with mobs on his tail.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver · September 2013

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

(random fc strangers in bh can kill whole bh squad).

or maybe they are random grinding strangers like you.
or you just haven't learned to react to events more complicated than a easy mob attacking you so you fail and die.

Disable hypers in frost, yes, no or LV restricted? FORGOTTEN THREAD

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