Disable hypers in frost, yes, no or LV restricted? FORGOTTEN THREAD

Brillance - Raging Tide

Krisnda wrote: »

Question for everyone:

But would that bring everything "back to normal"?

Note, I'm not saying "don't change anything," I'm just asking how much it would really change at this point?

Well,

1. People currently using FC to earn a living, will have their already limited sales of runs for heads or Big Room cut even more. They can look for alternate ways to earn a living. Sell TM runs. Farm something. Whatever.

2. People currently hypering in FC to level. Two categories here. The ones being run through by friends, family, or by paying someone. The ones bothering to form squads and still hyper in FC.

There are people who will never benefit from RoR. I for example have almost 1K shards in my bank. I dont play regularly, or do a lot to get them, so that seems like a lot to me. Im not willing to leave my PC on all the time for anything, including AFKing for XP in RoR.

I am not proud of it, but in 3 years of gameplay, I have never done a PQ or WQ. Dont know much about them. I used to grind BHs back when we would just stand in nearby towns and easily pick up others to help. Im not all that confident in the quality of seeking the group experience these days for random players.

When you talk about forcing people to use content, yes, you can make changes that force them in particular directions. You still cant force them use it, and the worse possible outcome for all of it is to end up with more people leaving with nothing coming in. Cause and effect - eliminate what I am doing, and I could change what Im doing. If I dont like the change, I might not do anything.

Is there a trailer somewhere for PWI that advertizes Hypering in Frost? Idk, Ive seen a few ads on vids from time to time here and there on Youtube. I never caught one for that. If they arent advertizing hypering in Frost, then logically no random new players are coming into the game ready to buy heads in Frost. People may want to return to the game if its changed, idk about that either.

What would bring it back to normal? Idk that it ever was normal in my time on it BUT, getting new players into the game is a great start. Without the new, what is the future of anything?

I guess the real question is - what does one risk losing as compared to what one gains from taking the risk? Is it worth a change?

I dont personally have an answer for that.

anwynd

First id just like to say please don't lvl restrict hypers I like to use them well grinding on my alts to get enough spirit to lvl all my skills before I start lvling up again.
I will agree how ever that that dreadful place needs to be lvl restricted to lvl 75.
Would be fun to do low lvl content again on my alts with others instead of taking months to figure out tactics and put them into effect to accomplish it on my own.
I love doing lower lvl BHs I allways find something that I didn't know about and ive been playing for almost 5 years lmao. I find that a lot better then soloing everything tell I get them to endgame again.
I can see why newer people wouldn't want to even try sense I have lvled over 20 alts with out ever using hyper fcc or what ever you people call it of course im nuts and consider my self an old fashion hardcore grinder so yea lol. Also I only do at lvl content with at lvl content people and never supporting them with my other characters nor allowing high lvls to help UNLESS its a culti.
Hmm I think I typed to much lol. I really love these types of threads its allways interesting to read the long debate posts.

Riverwell - Archosaur

Krisnda wrote: »

While you do make a great point, I didn't mention anything I stated a hypothetical. And this would help, if we had more new people here rather than old people and their alts, because most of them have the mindset (even I do now that I think about it) "I don't want to lv another character, it's too much work and I want to get to the end."

While I understand that people don't want to spend time leveling up alts, I don't agree that having a higher level character means that you should be able to bypass basic mid-level gameplay on alternates. That's why they're alts, they don't have to be at a high level to have fun... theoretically. That's the problem right now, it's not fun to be a mid-level character.

Some of the most fun I had was running BH39 with random squads, but you'd be hard-pressed to find those now. And that, imo, is what makes people want to rush their chars to endgame. And yes, even if mid-level was fun and awesome, people would still want 105, but working towards what you want your character to be like endgame is what the majority of the game is about. (If that even made sense. o.o idk, it's almost 4am and I'm about to go to bed.)

Brillance - Raging Tide

Faction Application/ or free lance Obscene Picture taker

Self Description: Lurker, Stalker, Voyeur
Skills: Can hide in trees for long time.
Biggest Wish in life: make enough $ from my job to buy R9 for all my characters in perfect world international

---

Several years ago, in a game far far away, there was a movement to not visit Giuildsites, or post on them, just to join a guild. If any experienced such, they would recall the WCs saying, "Fill out an application?? Im not applying for a job!!"

When you have someone ingame PMing you to tell you they see what you are clicked on, and follow it up with language you do not wish to take part in giving no indication to anyone that is something you would like to do, its easy to see why such refusals would exist.

You are what you say you are, whether its true or not. That is what it is.

I know, offtopic. Sorry.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Frost should stay as it is now. It's good for PWI and it's good for players. It's a great coin/token sink. Alts raised will get geared up, refined, they need a flyer and a mount, shards, probably rank gear and all that. It's also good for players, not all of them but the big majority and the majority that actually pays real money when playing.

People with cash want their alts up and running at 100+ asap, they will want them well geared and refined for endgame play so they will create income for PWI. That income is the one that keeps the servers alive for the other part of the players, the ones going through content step by step because they cannot afford to buy their way up.
This is ok, this is normal. This is how things are suppose to be.
Game actually starts at 100. Sure, there is pre 100 content, and it was great in 2009, but this is 2013, we are at the 5th anniversary of PWI, what do you guys want? to still have ppl grinding fishes and butterflies (btw, the ones against FC hypers, do you even know where those are?).
This game is 5 years in...how many MMOs can any of you point out where the midgame is flourishing after so much time? If you start now in this game suck it up and get to 100. Can't do BH today, skip it, do it tomorrow, WC for a high level to get you through, there are always ppl willing to help. There is always a solution, stop being lazy.

There are some people arguing that that's the way to learn how to play your class. I will argue against that. Yes, 2009, when there was almost no 3* drop in AH and all the crafted TT gear was fitting 2 pages in AH, yeah, PvE content was effin challenging. Now? hahahaahah, are you kidding me? you get GREAT gear from Dreamchaser pack, and I really mean GREAT gear compared with what we had to put up with back in the days. Armors, rings, weapons...I mean...everything is right there. Plus charms, and HP/MP pots to last you for weeks.
You don't learn to play while you're overpowered for your level, so please stop bringing this argument to the table, it's just not valid.
Get to 100 and start doing the endgame instances where you will have a crash course on how much you suck at your class. You'll learn what you need to know in a couple of days and from there on it's just mechanics that you need to work on. If it takes more time either suck it up and sweat it off or quit the game, no one cares.

I went through the full content of the game about 3 times. I had enough repetitive questing and aoe grinding. 1st time was fun, 2nd time was boring, 3rd time thanks God almighty FC changed and we could hyper big room or I would have abandon it.

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary

Its better to remove heads actually or actually pay 5 mil to activate heads. Better yet, yeah, just make people pay 5 mil to activate heads for coin sink

krisnda

Riverwell - Archosaur wrote: »

While I understand that people don't want to spend time leveling up alts, I don't agree that having a higher level character means that you should be able to bypass basic mid-level gameplay on alternates.

I can agree with this.

That's why they're alts, they don't have to be at a high level to have fun... theoretically. That's the problem right now, it's not fun to be a mid-level character.

This is also true.

Some of the most fun I had was running BH39 with random squads, but you'd be hard-pressed to find those now.

Those memories...

And that, imo, is what makes people want to rush their chars to endgame. And yes, even if mid-level was fun and awesome, people would still want 105, but working towards what you want your character to be like endgame is what the majority of the game is about. (If that even made sense. o.o idk, it's almost 4am and I'm about to go to bed.)

That's kinda what I was talking about.

However my main question that I keep throwing out there is this:

How much will this change (assuming it happened one of these days) actually affect us? Would it be negative (people ragequiting?), or positive? (people finally doing BH 29's again with same level people and not with 105's)

Toliman - Raging Tide

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Frost should stay as it is now. It's good for PWI and it's good for players. It's a great coin/token sink. Alts raised will get geared up, refined, they need a flyer and a mount, shards, probably rank gear and all that. It's also good for players, not all of them but the big majority and the majority that actually pays real money when playing...

Resume: pay to play ?

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...
Game actually starts at 100. Sure, there is pre 100 content, and it was great in 2009, but this is 2013, we are at the 5th anniversary of PWI, what do you guys want? to still have ppl grinding fishes and butterflies (btw, the ones against FC hypers, do you even know where those are?)...

Since I had killed thousands of butterflies(80) and thousand(s?) fishes level (88), then I know, where they are. Although Ossaur Cavalry is good too.

But I don't think, that last level of the character is the aim of this game.

Last level of the character mean end of the game, not more, not less.

And since I don't want to pay for this game, then I don't want to rush up to last level and stay as useless as character in Dreamchaser gear can be.

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary

Toliman, I appreciate you playing the game like back than and actually playing lol... Power leveling isn't playing first of all, its just the same as having someone doing quests for you or farming for you or w/e.

That's like you have done a turnover in football when your teammate did and you're in the bench sitting ~_~.

Toliman - Raging Tide

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Toliman, I appreciate you playing the game like back than and actually playing lol... Power leveling isn't playing first of all, its just the same as having someone doing quests for you or farming for you or w/e.

That's like you have done a turnover in football when your teammate did and you're in the bench sitting ~_~.

Thank you.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Toliman, I appreciate you playing the game like back than and actually playing lol... Power leveling isn't playing first of all, its just the same as having someone doing quests for you or farming for you or w/e.

That's like you have done a turnover in football when your teammate did and you're in the bench sitting ~_~.

avoiding powerleveling while you actually have a set of overpowered gear for your level is playing?
c'mon...stop the hypocrisy.

Restricting Frost for alts/new chars might be just an escape some competitive folks try to find where they think they might have/get an edge. You lost the gear race ? suck it up and live with it, don't try to find some other area where you could say "hey, look at me, I has 7 alts all 75+, I could be 100 in a week, but you know, I don't want to , I enjoy real game content". yeah, sure...

Riverwell - Archosaur

Krisnda wrote: »

However my main question that I keep throwing out there is this:

How much will this change (assuming it happened one of these days) actually affect us? Would it be negative (people ragequiting?), or positive? (people finally doing BH 29's again with same level people and not with 105's)

I see what you're saying. (I think i was misunderstanding before.)

I feel like there would be some of both, but somehow they need to make low and mid level gameplay fun again, and I think the lack of action is more detrimental in the long run then a drop in people rage quitting from this decision.

But, I'm definitely not an expert about this stuff so take what you will, lol.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Oh this thread again. While key argument for people is how power leveling ruins skill in new players. There is absolutely no challenge with current dreamchaser gear till lvl 70+. It will teach nobody, who isnt completely dimwitted, anything. Its the same **** as it is irl, things getting banned cause small minority cant handle them.

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...stop the hypocrisy.
.

You should take your own advise... lol... Infact Its better to have characters that are 71~80 than every other level. One or two level 100s is more practical on how the game mechanics act nowadays. I'm not complaining about those level 100s... infact, I do better than most 100s even with level 80 toons so don't try that excuse with the gear race (you must be a real stupid sheep to compete, and try and upgrade, then upgrade when R10 comes) b:bye

Making coins is beyond easy, leveling is beyond easy. So what's the point on removing FC? Ever thought about the new players that haven't played this game as we did years ago? Yet, it really does not even matter anymore because the game is new player friendly again, and they can solo through the quests fine while getting a decent income. In a stupid way though but oh well. I haven't made this game xD.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Krisnda wrote: »

However my main question that I keep throwing out there is this:

How much will this change (assuming it happened one of these days) actually affect us? Would it be negative (people ragequiting?), or positive? (people finally doing BH 29's again with same level people and not with 105's)

Personally, when we had the "issue" with hypers disabled in Frost because they forgot to remove the PW-CN version of the instance before sending us our files, we saw exactly what the result was.

We saw people actually squadding and doing lower level instances.
We saw people questing around the lower level cities.
We saw the bored-*** farmers get up and help out.
We saw a lot more people actually playing the game, rather than just farming or running instances like some kind of robot.

Riverwell - Archosaur wrote: »

I see what you're saying. (I think i was misunderstanding before.)

I feel like there would be some of both, but somehow they need to make low and mid level gameplay fun again, and I think the lack of action is more detrimental in the long run then a drop in people rage quitting from this decision.

But, I'm definitely not an expert about this stuff so take what you will, lol.

This is where the biggest misconception is.

They don't need to make low level gameplay fun again, they already have. They did it a year ago. No one notices because they're too busy missing all the quests.

They compensated our complaints about grinding by making quests impossibly easy. The drop rate for quest items is 100% in the lower levels. No more killing mobs for three hours trying to get one item from a stupid dustwraith.
On top of that, they increased the amount of experience you get from those quests and the amounts of the coin rewards.
So now you just do the regular quests and level twice as fast.

Oh, but that wasn't enough. We complained that we had all this new content for the high level players, and nothing for the low level players.
So what did they do?
They added a crapload of new low-level quest chains.
With even more experience and even more coin.

Oh, and you can't forget, that if leveling to 40 before you got to your level 20 quests wasn't bad enough, they added a crapload of fruit and other rewards so that you don't even have to worry about charms or gear until you're in the higher levels.

The only reason the content is "missing" is because no one bothers to stop and take a look.
Start a new toon.
Make a few genies.
Play the game.
Feed the genies exp to slow down your leveling.
Stockpile all the coin.
Getting skills is a cinch.
Enjoy the game and it's content.

Now imagine if more people did that.
If people ragequit over a level restriction on hypers, they aren't anyone we wanted playing anyway. The bloom in lower-level areas, and having new players that actually stick around, would greatly improve the life and the community of the game.

JustAllEvil - Harshlands

Yes, yes, yes. So tired of people that don't know how to play their class and have 8 100s, then complain at me......

Crazybladema - Harshlands

JustAllEvil - Harshlands wrote: »

Yes, yes, yes. So tired of people that don't know how to play their class and have 8 100s, then complain at me......

People will always complain when they get pwned.

Azueai - Lost City

Just to throw this out there, but if you have any old high level players in your server, do me a favor and look at who they hang out with. In Lost City there are LOTS of old players that know how it used to be, that hang out with each other all the time. They PvP together, PvE together, literally you don't see one of them alone most of the time. My point here is...most of them LVLED together, they learned the game together, they figured out TW together, they all bonded by running FC at level 75-85. This is probably why they are the best geared and are in the most powerful factions on the server together and are very hard to beat. Yes its hard...that's why they stay together and do BH together is because they can predict what others are gonna do. They trust each other in instances, and yes some of them are new and were leveled by FC but they weren't ONLY taught by FC.

I add people on my alts FL, to try and play with others my level and I end up deleting them because they never log or they FC to 100 in a matter of days....if we don't increase the mid-level players, then the game might be better at level 100 for everyone. I honestly dread some instances with random squads because I see level 101's that have no idea what they are doing AT ALL....and im sorry at level 101 as an EP in getting tired of people telling me NOT to do my AOE heal and IRONHEART EVERYONE.......ironheart everyone (if your an EP you'll know what I mean, because that's literally impossible with 10 person squads nowadays) because they cant agro control and they keep dying.

b:shutupb:bye

P.S. I vote the best this is to level restrict FC to 75 (because yes its hard but possible at level 75-85).

RyuTiger - Raging Tide

Someone close this noob topic please! Is been discussed, been to a vote and they decided to leave it the way it is, why you keep talk about it? This topic is useless....

anwynd

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Faction Application/ or free lance Obscene Picture taker

Self Description: Lurker, Stalker, Voyeur
Skills: Can hide in trees for long time.
Biggest Wish in life: make enough $ from my job to buy R9 for all my characters in perfect world international

---

Several years ago, in a game far far away, there was a movement to not visit Giuildsites, or post on them, just to join a guild. If any experienced such, they would recall the WCs saying, "Fill out an application?? Im not applying for a job!!"

When you have someone ingame PMing you to tell you they see what you are clicked on, and follow it up with language you do not wish to take part in giving no indication to anyone that is something you would like to do, its easy to see why such refusals would exist.

You are what you say you are, whether its true or not. That is what it is.

I know, offtopic. Sorry.

im alittle stupid so I didn't rlly understand what you were trying to say. But sense its about my sig I will just say I made that as a joke so I could make myself laugh when im feeling down lol but I can hide in trees for a long time learned to do it when I pissed my grandpa off when I was a young moron lol.

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

avoiding powerleveling while you actually have a set of overpowered gear for your level is playing?
c'mon...stop the hypocrisy.

Restricting Frost for alts/new chars might be just an escape some competitive folks try to find where they think they might have/get an edge. You lost the gear race ? suck it up and live with it, don't try to find some other area where you could say "hey, look at me, I has 7 alts all 75+, I could be 100 in a week, but you know, I don't want to , I enjoy real game content". yeah, sure...

Sounds like your overly butt hurt for something that would definiately improve the gaming experience better than running the same instance 1000x. What are ya exactly, a troll, ignorant, naive, or just plain stupid in the head.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Oh this thread again. While key argument for people is how power leveling ruins skill in new players. There is absolutely no challenge with current dreamchaser gear till lvl 70+. It will teach nobody, who isnt completely dimwitted, anything. Its the same **** as it is irl, things getting banned cause small minority cant handle them.

Sounds like another troll coming out of the wood work. K two termites down. zero to go.

RyuTiger - Raging Tide wrote: »

Someone close this noob topic please! Is been discussed, been to a vote and they decided to leave it the way it is, why you keep talk about it? This topic is useless....

Im guessing your the noob here since you cant handle a topic that would change pw for the better stead of keeping it the way it is and making it worse than it already is.

Riverwell - Archosaur

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is where the biggest misconception is.

They don't need to make low level gameplay fun again, they already have. They did it a year ago. No one notices because they're too busy missing all the quests.

They compensated our complaints about grinding by making quests impossibly easy. The drop rate for quest items is 100% in the lower levels. No more killing mobs for three hours trying to get one item from a stupid dustwraith.
On top of that, they increased the amount of experience you get from those quests and the amounts of the coin rewards.
So now you just do the regular quests and level twice as fast.

Oh, but that wasn't enough. We complained that we had all this new content for the high level players, and nothing for the low level players.
So what did they do?
They added a crapload of new low-level quest chains.
With even more experience and even more coin.

Oh, and you can't forget, that if leveling to 40 before you got to your level 20 quests wasn't bad enough, they added a crapload of fruit and other rewards so that you don't even have to worry about charms or gear until you're in the higher levels.

The only reason the content is "missing" is because no one bothers to stop and take a look.
Start a new toon.
Make a few genies.
Play the game.
Feed the genies exp to slow down your leveling.
Stockpile all the coin.
Getting skills is a cinch.
Enjoy the game and it's content.

Now imagine if more people did that.
If people ragequit over a level restriction on hypers, they aren't anyone we wanted playing anyway. The bloom in lower-level areas, and having new players that actually stick around, would greatly improve the life and the community of the game.

I'm not saying the content in mid-levels isn't fun, I think there's plenty to do (which I stated in a previous post). The problem is that no one is using it, and half the enjoyment of doing quests and completing content at your level is doing it with other people, but there isn't anyone else to do it with.

And so yeah, that's what I meant by 'they need to make mid level gameplay fun again' because right now it's not, and a large portion of that is people having access to hyper FC that remove the need for them to complete these quests.

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear

Sry bout the double posting if it comes out that way but thought this was important to address.

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Frost should stay as it is now. It's good for PWI and it's good for players. It's a great coin/token sink. Alts raised will get geared up, refined, they need a flyer and a mount, shards, probably rank gear and all that. It's also good for players, not all of them but the big majority and the majority that actually pays real money when playing.

Is that all you ever think bout is how to make fast money? If FC stayed the way it is with players able to hyper in there we would probably end up with a noob infestation to the point where someone wouldnt even know where Suzerix, Krixxix, Chin, Silver Frost, or Krimson would be. Seems like someone is very money hungry and butt hurt over this latest discussion.

People with cash want their alts up and running at 100+ asap, they will want them well geared and refined for endgame play so they will create income for PWI. That income is the one that keeps the servers alive for the other part of the players, the ones going through content step by step because they cannot afford to buy their way up.
This is ok, this is normal. This is how things are suppose to be.
Game actually starts at 100. Sure, there is pre 100 content, and it was great in 2009, but this is 2013, we are at the 5th anniversary of PWI, what do you guys want? to still have ppl grinding fishes and butterflies (btw, the ones against FC hypers, do you even know where those are?).
This game is 5 years in...how many MMOs can any of you point out where the midgame is flourishing after so much time? If you start now in this game suck it up and get to 100. Can't do BH today, skip it, do it tomorrow, WC for a high level to get you through, there are always ppl willing to help. There is always a solution, stop being lazy.

Not everyone wants to put in rl cash just to make some pixelated toon with the best gear, best refines and the best player. Ofc having pw get the rl bucks keeps the servers running and also improves the games performance, but that shouldnt be excusable to make a huge rl money sink into a game. The ones going through the low-mid lvl content of the game have better knowledge of the maps locations than someone who would constantly run through 1 instance 1000x compared to someone who explored the gaming content. I think id rather be grinding on butterflies (motheran dazzlewings) and fishes (ultrafin supremes) than i would be stuck in an endless cycle of running an instance that the players have abused since when plvling came into existance. If you want a solution to this, put a LVL limit to FC at 80+ and then you'll see better results. Plus having a high lvl run through your bhs while you do nothing but pick him bone dry is going to leave him with a very sour feeling. I got the solution for ya, STOP BEING SO FREAKING NOOBISH AND DO THE MID LVL CONTENT THE WAY ITS SUPPOSE TO BE PLAYED.

There are some people arguing that that's the way to learn how to play your class. I will argue against that. Yes, 2009, when there was almost no 3* drop in AH and all the crafted TT gear was fitting 2 pages in AH, yeah, PvE content was effin challenging. Now? hahahaahah, are you kidding me? you get GREAT gear from Dreamchaser pack, and I really mean GREAT gear compared with what we had to put up with back in the days. Armors, rings, weapons...I mean...everything is right there. Plus charms, and HP/MP pots to last you for weeks.
You don't learn to play while you're overpowered for your level, so please stop bringing this argument to the table, it's just not valid.
Get to 100 and start doing the endgame instances where you will have a crash course on how much you suck at your class. You'll learn what you need to know in a couple of days and from there on it's just mechanics that you need to work on. If it takes more time either suck it up and sweat it off or quit the game, no one cares.

Its not just some who are arguing that playing through the gaming content helps ya to learn your class, try over 50% of the playerbase want it. Sure the dreamchaser gear is really nice, but i say they should of stuck to having the quest reward gear for players who can survive on skill more than having based on some OP gear that can slice and dice through the low lvls like it was made of butter. LVL 100 is not the place where you can get a crash course on how much your newbish at your class. bh 51 or 69 is the perfect place for that and even trying to tank eyes of the krimson can be a real challenge at equal lvl. Id rather learn what i need to know simply by going out and doing each skill against the world map within a week to a month than i would in a stupid instance that only takes an hr to complete. Heres a little advice for ya, Quit the game or shut up, cause no one cares bout your trolling.

I went through the full content of the game about 3 times. I had enough repetitive questing and aoe grinding. 1st time was fun, 2nd time was boring, 3rd time thanks God almighty FC changed and we could hyper big room or I would have abandon it.

So what if you went through the game content bout 3 times, each class is different in how it works with the other class which you are just too stupid to come to your senses to figure out. pw isnt rocket science, but it still has alot of possible strategies that a player can test out for themselves than being locked in a single instance everyday for a month. Sure glad your just a troll and butt hurt than someone who has legit complaints.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sounds like your overly butt hurt for something that would definiately improve the gaming experience better than running the same instance 1000x. What are ya exactly, a troll, ignorant, naive, or just plain stupid in the head.



Sounds like another troll coming out of the wood work. K two termites down. zero to go.



Im guessing your the noob here since you cant handle a topic that would change pw for the better stead of keeping it the way it is and making it worse than it already is.

People who have no idea bout anything, lol. Who the frack runs FC 1k times `cept the few sins who go for 105? Dont be stupid, hitting 101 from level 1 is nowhere near that number but I guess its cool to draw numbers from hat so to say.

What does grinding/questing teach after the first hour? Nothing really, you learned the mechanics of it. Why would grinding/questing infinite hours more teach anything relevant to new players? Even BH is dungeon that intended for toons that are 10+ lower than you and were geared far worse (back in days)?

The endgame that is easy, is still the thing that teaches players most. Will new players suck when they get there? Yes but if they arent terrible they will learn. If they are terrible, no amount of forcing em to grind is gonna make them good.

Ps. Go troll yourself.

Tigriss_o - Raging Tide

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Frost should stay as it is now. It's good for PWI and it's good for players..........

I'm sorry to say this but the majority of your post is just your personal opinion. As is most the post in this thread.

Face it y'all are never gonna agree on this stuff. Your opinions are the ones your always gonna have and it's highly unlikely someone is gonna change your minds. Best thing to do is just stop. Perfect world has already made their decision and it's not gonna change. There is no reason to argue.

I personally love being low level. Been here off and on since beta Started on HT then moved to RT when it came out (hoping to have less lag) this is my highest toon ever and I'm in no rush to reach end game. I've spent thousands on this game tho I'm only level 82. So in my opinion PWE don't need everyone to be end game or be trying to be end game to make money.

When I'm not on my breaks from gaming I'm logging more hours each day then many who are trying to get to 100+ as fast as they can and I barely ever have much experience to show for it. That's because I'm running around goofing off, poking things I aught not poke and getting killed, getting distracted by the clothes I see for sale in archo, etc. That's how I have fun.

Isn't that really what it's all about? The reason we play games is to be entertained and have fun. Be it rushing to end game to be able to crush everything you come across, or taking the slow route and enjoying all the content. Chance are on your way through you will come across me on your slow trek we can goof off a bit before you pass me. Just learn to do things your way and let others do things their way and don't interfere with one another. Also don't let others pressure you to do things their way. You wont have fun rushing yourself if you like going slow or going slow when you just want end game now.

I've seen high levels who took the slow route and don't know squat. I have seen FCers who are really good. The way you level does not decide whether your gonna be good or bad. Only your capacity for learning will decided that.

All in all everyone has their opinions everyone has good points in their Opinions but at the end of the day the powers that be make the final decisions on what goes in the game and what doesn't. And no amount of squabbling between us is gonna make them decide one way or another.

PWI is a business and as a business will always do what best for the company. They know there is no way to keep everyone happy. So what they are gonna do is what all businesses do. Figure out how to keep as many current customers as possible wile bringing in new ones wile making a profit. They know no matter what they do some customers will be displeased and leave. They can only hope to minimize those losses as much as possible. Clearly they have found keeping FC the way it is is best for business. Again no need for us to fight.


Sorry if my thoughts seemed a bit chaotic but I'm distracted by RL stuff at the moment I'm trying to keep my mind off of hence being on computer when I should be sleeping. just thought I'd make a futile attempt to quell the squabbling some.

Toliman - Raging Tide

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

avoiding powerleveling while you actually have a set of overpowered gear for your level is playing?
...

What ?

Level 60 rank armor, TM69 robe, boots level 76 (drop from mobs),
ring Open Sky level 78 (drop from mobs) ... overpowered ?

Although I put some efforts to do my character able to tank bosses ... it was hard work.

Here it is (overpowered Wizard b:laugh ):
http://pwcalc.com/c11866f2cdb67360

I could not add Meridian circle bonuses (passed 1 circle, so my character has 100 more HP and something yet ...)

Yeaves - Archosaur

Tigriss_o - Raging Tide wrote: »

Chance are on your way through you will come across me on your slow trek we can goof off a bit before you pass me.

If you had been on my server l'd ask you to join me for quests. Some of my tooms are leveled fasttrack, some are just for fun. IMO: its much more fun to have someone else to play with together. f:cute

... its been a while since l've seen lots of other ppl on the map f:faint

Marengo - Lost City

Tigriss_o - Raging Tide wrote: »

I personally love being low level. Been here off and on since beta Started on HT then moved to RT when it came out (hoping to have less lag) this is my highest toon ever and I'm in no rush to reach end game. I've spent thousands on this game tho I'm only level 82. So in my opinion PWE don't need everyone to be end game or be trying to be end game to make money.

Wall of text...

Being low lvl is cool when it's you 1st, 5th or maybe even 10th char. But a lot op ppl have been playing this game for years and they know all this low lvl content by heart and it's not that fun anymore to do same quests again and again. When i need a high lvl alt for buffs, BHs, whatever else, i prefer to plvl it in frost than passing all this fun way again. And not just because i'm lazy. This too but it's not the main reason.

Even though i'm more of a solo player, i'd love to run BHs with lower lvl chars in squads. And i did about a year ago. But how it actually goes nowdays:

BH59, for example.
Ppl look for squad on the plate in Arch, search for tanker, healer for quite a while.
30-40 min later they give up and go as they are - mystic/wiz as a healer (prolly without mana pots + rare ppl bother to heal actually), bm/seeker instead of a tanker (but don't forget that bm and seeker on low lvl are not as good in tanking as on 100+), most of ppl uncharmed of course and no pots, hoping for heals. Squad can be not even full.
1-2nd assault on mobs ends with squad wipe.
Someone in squad says he has a guildie, high lvl sin who can come help.
Lvl 80-90 sin comes and goes to clean bh while healer is running from the city.
Sin dies. Healer comes, revives pt and so on.
In the end somebody (or me) loses patience and logs main or calls a really high-lvl friend who helps in BH.

Eventually i gave up. It takes much less time to help your alt with your main char. And it's not fun when somebody else comes to solo BH for your squad.

Same with frosts. I never bought a single frost with my veno, hyper lvled it till 100 of course but starting from lvl 80 we ran it in squads of 10 lvl range and no1 soloed it for us. Same was with cleric, tho i started frosting it even on 75 since EPs were needed badly. Actually it was before ppl started selling frosts massively. After that i tried to join normal squads with alts. And standart scheme again:
Party fails somewhere on 2nd boss or 2-3 ppl leave ("mom came", "i got bored", "i'm tired") and it starts again... after 15 min, somebody's alt or friend comes and soloes it for all till big room...

>.<

Even buying big room takes 40 min or so (including waiting for all to come). And lvl80 squads appear to be unable to run frosts on their own, since they don't bother to get gear for their lvl before they hit 100.

I know it's profitable for players to sell frosts and it benefits me too if i want faster plvling, but can't deny when ppl abuse it and don't prepare properly for at least a big room it makes buyers extremely lazy and unable to do anything at all on their own.

Problem is not in hypers or frosts, but in players.

Must admit though, situation is much better on 100+, when ppl at last gear up, and failing aba/sot in squad of 10 ppl is kinda impossible (before update i tried not to risk going in random squad there without barb), other BHs are rather easy or require just 1-2 decent ppl in squad to succeed, so if anybody is really not too good on his char it goes unnoticable in many cases.

That's why i'd personally prefer and recommend to get to 100 as soon as possible. Game is not new and everyone is skipping low lvl content + most updates are implemented for 100+ as well. So i don't see any reason to restrict hypers in frost, just need to adjust to this situation. Low lvl game play is not that fun as it used to be, whether we like it or not.

Tigriss_o - Raging Tide wrote: »

Isn't that really what it's all about? The reason we play games is to be entertained and have fun. Be it rushing to end game to be able to crush everything you come across, or taking the slow route and enjoying all the content. Chance are on your way through you will come across me on your slow trek we can goof off a bit before you pass me. Just learn to do things your way and let others do things their way and don't interfere with one another. Also don't let others pressure you to do things their way. You wont have fun rushing yourself if you like going slow or going slow when you just want end game now.

Fun is individual notion for every person, but it's obvious that being high lvl and strong attracts more ppl than being low lvl and weak. And of course you can stay on any lvl you like and you are kinda lucky if you have enough fun requiring almost nothing. Since endgame and pvp fun demands a lot of money for gear and constant spends on supplies

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary wrote: »

You should take your own advise... lol... Infact Its better to have characters that are 71~80 than every other level. One or two level 100s is more practical on how the game mechanics act nowadays. I'm not complaining about those level 100s... infact, I do better than most 100s even with level 80 toons so don't try that excuse with the gear race (you must be a real stupid sheep to compete, and try and upgrade, then upgrade when R10 comes) b:bye
.

I did not come out with personal attacks on you, The only reason you came out with that, and usually the only reason people use them it's either they are out of arguments or they are really stupid.

Riverwell - Archosaur wrote: »

I'm not saying the content in mid-levels isn't fun, I think there's plenty to do (which I stated in a previous post). The problem is that no one is using it, and half the enjoyment of doing quests and completing content at your level is doing it with other people, but there isn't anyone else to do it with.

And so yeah, that's what I meant by 'they need to make mid level gameplay fun again' because right now it's not, and a large portion of that is people having access to hyper FC that remove the need for them to complete these quests.

I did it already a few times, the whole of it. I don't want to be forced to do it again if I want an alt. No one forces you to powerlevel so go quest and do content. If you try there are going to be people doing it.

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Is that all you ever think bout is how to make fast money? If FC stayed the way it is with players able to hyper in there we would probably end up with a noob infestation to the point where someone wouldnt even know where Suzerix, Krixxix, Chin, Silver Frost, or Krimson would be. Seems like someone is very money hungry and butt hurt over this latest discussion.

you're so effin limited and narrow minded you think FC is the cause of the problem? before FC people used oracles to level up alts and still skip content.
Alll I think is how to progress in this game in all the possible ways the progress can be done. getting stuck for months under lvl 70 is not progressing , it's stupid.

Its not just some who are arguing that playing through the gaming content helps ya to learn your class, try over 50% of the playerbase want it. Sure the dreamchaser gear is really nice, but i say they should of stuck to having the quest reward gear for players who can survive on skill more than having based on some OP gear that can slice and dice through the low lvls like it was made of butter. LVL 100 is not the place where you can get a crash course on how much your newbish at your class. bh 51 or 69 is the perfect place for that and even trying to tank eyes of the krimson can be a real challenge at equal lvl. Id rather learn what i need to know simply by going out and doing each skill against the world map within a week to a month than i would in a stupid instance that only takes an hr to complete. Heres a little advice for ya, Quit the game or shut up, cause no one cares bout your trolling.

wow, you really must be incredibly stupid and narrow minded for posting the above and then to continue like this:

So what if you went through the game content bout 3 times, each class is different in how it works with the other class which you are just too stupid to come to your senses to figure out. pw isnt rocket science, but it still has alot of possible strategies that a player can test out for themselves than being locked in a single instance everyday for a month. Sure glad your just a troll and butt hurt than someone who has legit complaints.

really, go back taking your medication, the time off you had doesn't help anyone.

PS: last post on the issue, got better things to do than waste time bringing arguments to a discussion when the other sides brings r.tarded personal attks.
It might actually be a good display of what kind of people someone will find when doing mid level content. Would you be happy to squad up with the guys that posted the above quotes? I sure as hell won't.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sounds like your overly butt hurt for something that would definiately improve the gaming experience better than running the same instance 1000x. What are ya exactly, a troll, ignorant, naive, or just plain stupid in the head.

so how exactly do you explain all the people that chose FC over the spectacular gaming experience of killing a mob 100000000000000000 times? are you *that* arrogant to think that they are lsot soulds in need of rescuing?

Tigriss_o - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm sorry to say this but the majority of your post is just your personal opinion. As is most the post in this thread.

Face it y'all are never gonna agree on this stuff. Your opinions are the ones your always gonna have and it's highly unlikely someone is gonna change your minds. Best thing to do is just stop. Perfect world has already made their decision and it's not gonna change. There is no reason to argue.

it's fun xd

I personally love being low level.Been here off and on since beta Started on HT then moved to RT when it came out (hoping to have less lag) this is my highest toon ever and I'm in no rush to reach end game. I've spent thousands on this game tho I'm only level 82. So in my opinion PWE don't need everyone to be end game or be trying to be end game to make money.

how many others do you know that behave like you though? just because one wishes do spend thousands doesn't mean that everyone, or even a sufficient amount of people, will be willing to spend thousands to grind mob after mob

When I'm not on my breaks from gaming I'm logging more hours each day then many who are trying to get to 100+ as fast as they can and I barely ever have much experience to show for it. That's because I'm running around goofing off, poking things I aught not poke and getting killed, getting distracted by the clothes I see for sale in archo, etc. That's how I have fun.

Isn't that really what it's all about? The reason we play games is to be entertained and have fun. Be it rushing to end game to be able to crush everything you come across, or taking the slow route and enjoying all the content. Chance are on your way through you will come across me on your slow trek we can goof off a bit before you pass me. Just learn to do things your way and let others do things their way and don't interfere with one another. Also don't let others pressure you to do things their way. You wont have fun rushing yourself if you like going slow or going slow when you just want end game now.

I've seen high levels who took the slow route and don't know squat. I have seen FCers who are really good. The way you level does not decide whether your gonna be good or bad. Only your capacity for learning will decided that.

All in all everyone has their opinions everyone has good points in their Opinions but at the end of the day the powers that be make the final decisions on what goes in the game and what doesn't. And no amount of squabbling between us is gonna make them decide one way or another.

PWI is a business and as a business will always do what best for the company. They know there is no way to keep everyone happy. So what they are gonna do is what all businesses do. Figure out how to keep as many current customers as possible wile bringing in new ones wile making a profit. They know no matter what they do some customers will be displeased and leave. They can only hope to minimize those losses as much as possible. Clearly they have found keeping FC the way it is is best for business. Again no need for us to fight.


Sorry if my thoughts seemed a bit chaotic but I'm distracted by RL stuff at the moment I'm trying to keep my mind off of hence being on computer when I should be sleeping. just thought I'd make a futile attempt to quell the squabbling some.

+1. live and let live.

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

and they know all this low lvl content by heart and it's not that fun anymore to do same quests again and again.[/COLOR]

I KNOW THAT SPOT IS CAT DONT MAKE ME COLLECT BONES FOR DOGS