Is 100 magic per damage multiplier still fair?
Sakubatou - Sanctuary
Posts: 4,001 Arc User
I know melee players have gotten their share of "aps are unfair" and archer get their 50-60% crit rate and 34-40m range shouted at as a great unjustice against the other 9 classes. Caster have always had the great 1 shot capactity to QQ about, though. Year ago wizards were 1 shotting even the best geared barbs back then. Gear improves, barbs improve their gear and shards and Wizards counter with better weapons, etc...
Now we have what seems the greatest imbalances occurring. The fact that while many barbs and BM are walking around with 300-500 str the casters are able to achieve 600-700 magic or even higher. A BM will split their points between dex for accuracy and gear reqs, a barb will add to vitality and dexterity, even a sin has a larger strength requirement for LA gear. But the casters have 100% accuracy, .5 str required per level (almost entirely covered by gear without having to use stat points) and the best damage multiplier in the game.
Every 100 points into magic a caster will deal their weapons damage more. If their weapon damage is 2-3k, then every 100 points they get another 2-3k damage to their base attack. Every other class its 150 points/multiplier.
So while a barb or bm will be walking around with 2-4 multipliers a caster will spend endgame with 6-7 damage multipliers, along with 100% accuracy. Not to mention they have some of the best refining weapon and highest base damage weapons in the game. Meaning their dph has grown tremendously since the new G16 gear was released.
This was... needed at lower levels to keep up with aps and to help the "glass cannon" scenarios have a shot. Vit was expected in magic builds years ago, there was less +stat equipment, and endgame magic stats were only 300-400. Now it's way over scaled and unnecessary.
Now we have what seems the greatest imbalances occurring. The fact that while many barbs and BM are walking around with 300-500 str the casters are able to achieve 600-700 magic or even higher. A BM will split their points between dex for accuracy and gear reqs, a barb will add to vitality and dexterity, even a sin has a larger strength requirement for LA gear. But the casters have 100% accuracy, .5 str required per level (almost entirely covered by gear without having to use stat points) and the best damage multiplier in the game.
Every 100 points into magic a caster will deal their weapons damage more. If their weapon damage is 2-3k, then every 100 points they get another 2-3k damage to their base attack. Every other class its 150 points/multiplier.
So while a barb or bm will be walking around with 2-4 multipliers a caster will spend endgame with 6-7 damage multipliers, along with 100% accuracy. Not to mention they have some of the best refining weapon and highest base damage weapons in the game. Meaning their dph has grown tremendously since the new G16 gear was released.
This was... needed at lower levels to keep up with aps and to help the "glass cannon" scenarios have a shot. Vit was expected in magic builds years ago, there was less +stat equipment, and endgame magic stats were only 300-400. Now it's way over scaled and unnecessary.
Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
Post edited by Sakubatou - Sanctuary on
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Comments
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Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Vit was expected in magic builds years ago
I don't think so.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
Only 1 thing to say:
Archer w/ 500+ dex and decently refined endgame weapon 1 shots more then 50% of all casters.
Nuff said.0 -
Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver wrote: »Only 1 thing to say:
Archer w/ 500+ dex and decently refined endgame weapon 1 shots more then 50% of all casters.
Nuff said.
They won't one shot an equivalently geared caster lol..Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
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tbh, the +100 stat points on the set is overkill for every class.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Subtraction.
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Casters are as over powered as any class, every class has there bit of "over powered-ness" which in all fairness makes all classes equal, in a way...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Tide_Surfer: "Yes Veny, yes. A speshall seashell."0 -
Tide_Surfer - Archosaur wrote: »Casters are as over powered as any class, every class has there bit of "over powered-ness" which in all fairness makes all classes equal, in a way...
Sadly though, Bm's have been shunted with the puri proc as it is very hard to keep a caster locked down to get the kill unless you are outgearing them. But on the other hand when has this game ever been fair to one class or another over its time b:chuckle0 -
____BM____ - Sanctuary wrote: »Sadly though, Bm's have been shunted with the puri proc as it is very hard to keep a caster locked down to get the kill unless you are outgearing them. But on the other hand when has this game ever been fair to one class or another over its time b:chuckle
It's not only BM's, it's every class that seeks to stunlock their opponent, such as sins and really any class. You must admit it was a little bit unfair that all classes had a purge on their r9 weapon/zerk on their r9 weapon but casters had nothing extra. Some will debate that this was because casters are OP as it is, but aren't Archers pretty much LA casters with insane crit?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Tide_Surfer: "I feel SPESHALL *says like a lil kid*"
Veneir: "Seashell?"
Tide_Surfer: "Yes Veny, yes. A speshall seashell."0 -
Tide_Surfer - Archosaur wrote: »It's not only BM's, it's every class that seeks to stunlock their opponent, such as sins and really any class. You must admit it was a little bit unfair that all classes had a purge on their r9 weapon/zerk on their r9 weapon but casters had nothing extra. Some will debate that this was because casters are OP as it is, but aren't Archers pretty much LA casters with insane crit?
Yeah 90% of sins end game don't bother stunning anyway so i don't really count them as a class anymore, just a mob that will give me points in Nw b:chuckle
Yeah archers at R9 seemed to have the best proc on weapon so they ruled servers for a long time but now it has shifted and you are seeing more and more casters own everything. Archers still have that proc but with puri proc it's a lot easier to counter it but, i still feel that the proc has unnecessary speed to it which is causing it to be OP, just my opinion on it xD
With the whole 100 mag multiplier.... errm i feel it's still fair tbh. Only thing that's stopping it being fair is that no phys class can catch the bloody casters as they run off and pew pew you from far away. If phys classes have a chance of hitting casters then there is no problem with damage, damage taken etc.... Except for wiz spark(that OP dude) xD b:chuckle0 -
Any comparison that involves different gear levels is basically worthless. All classes are capable of 1-shotting a level 30 in NPC armor. That says nothing at all about anything.
Most people in lower gear can't even properly judge the relative strength of R999 gear because up until now the people who got it were already some of the richest on the server. This meant they tended to have extremely high refines / josd while the typical R9 or G16 character has much lower refines / immaculates.
If you make a claim from personal experience you should only consider your own gear level or lower. Saying all R9 third cast players are OP is as dumb as saying all TT90 classes are OP.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »Saying all R9 third cast players are OP is as dumb as saying all TT90 classes are OP.
I don't think anyone has said that except for the trolls that lurk around here. Was just wondering though whats your opinion of the Purify Proc as your equally geared against them?0 -
Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver wrote: »Only 1 thing to say:
Archer w/ 500+ dex and decently refined endgame weapon 1 shots more then 50% of all casters.
Nuff said.
I'm happy to Crit 3k on an endgame geared wiz/psy ( i'm r9rr +10). while they sit with 15k hp base. i'd like to see how you as an archer will 1 shot +12 r9rr josd casters..our dmg is low -.-105 - 105 - 105 (14th march 2014)
Join date: November 2008 - HT.0 -
Half the classes in the game are casters. I guess the game is too broken. You all should stop playing. Bye.0
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It's easy to claim there's no arms race if you're the one winning it. But all you have to do is go to pwcalc and run the numbers yourself to see how r9s3 (and even nirv s3) makes a mockery of everything that came before it.
There is no reason a set of gear should ever have 90+ attack level even without ornaments or blessings. For the purposes of game balance, this is just common sense.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
____BM____ - Sanctuary wrote: »I don't think anyone has said that except for the trolls that lurk around here. Was just wondering though whats your opinion of the Purify Proc as your equally geared against them?
R999 archers love the purify proc since their damage increases as the caster runs away b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
And still too squishy...0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Caster have always had the great 1 shot capactity to QQ about, though. Year ago wizards were 1 shotting even the best geared barbs back then.
Never in PWI history have wiz ever one shot a top gear barb under normal conditions.Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »This was... needed at lower levels to keep up with aps and to help the "glass cannon" scenarios have a shot. Vit was expected in magic builds years ago, there was less +stat equipment, and endgame magic stats were only 300-400. Now it's way over scaled and unnecessary.
Yes, magic build was always expected to have 3 vit.Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver wrote: »Only 1 thing to say:
Archer w/ 500+ dex and decently refined endgame weapon 1 shots more then 50% of all casters.
Nuff said.
I have over 600 dex... actually closer to 700... and a +12 r9 recast weapon. Can't even one shot robes with lesser gear.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »I have over 600 dex... actually closer to 700... and a +12 r9 recast weapon. Can't even one shot robes with lesser gear.
Does make me laugh a little bit how people think that more dex = more damage in 1 hit b:chuckle0 -
____BM____ - Sanctuary wrote: »Does make me laugh a little bit how people think that more dex = more damage in 1 hit b:chuckle
more dex = more damage... b:puzzled0 -
____BM____ - Sanctuary wrote: »Does make me laugh a little bit how people think that more dex = more damage in 1 hit b:chuckle
yeah, your ignorance is pretty humorous[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
____BM____ - Sanctuary wrote: »Does make me laugh a little bit how people think that more dex = more damage in 1 hit b:chuckle
Let me guess... WTB FF plevel, pm price.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
I repeat, i speak without pvp experience, but from all i read it seems to me that the attack power has grown stronger than the defensive abilities (most characters have twice is much attack level as defence level) and because of this it gets to one shotting where you must be the first to shoot. Or maybe being the first one who is lucky to have a crit. IE gambling and hoping you're lucky.
I think it would be much better with lower damages (or higher defences) and less healing capablities (ie no charms)
but again, i speak of no experience.0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »Never in PWI history have wiz ever one shot a top gear barb under normal conditions.
...
Really ?
Let us read ancient history then (year 2009):Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »i one shot barb
<3blood bath b:cuteStickygreen - Heavens Tear wrote: »atm i have 2.9k mdef unbuffed, TT90 elemental 5% necky, and 3* level 85 elemental belt.
trust me, wizards just hit that hard.
wizards will always been owning barbs with BIDS not much you can do.0 -
Chigenkaiona - Dreamweaver wrote: »Only 1 thing to say:
Archer w/ 500+ dex and decently refined endgame weapon 1 shots more then 50% of all casters.
Nuff said.
You must be fighting casters in tt99. I can't think of a single time my +12 bow ever oneshot a jaded caster. In TW and 1v1 PvP, that's way more then 50% of my targets too.____BM____ - Sanctuary wrote: »Does make me laugh a little bit how people think that more dex = more damage in 1 hit b:chuckle
It does make me laugh a little bit how people like you are so clueless about the mechanics of stats. b:chuckleProving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
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Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »Really ?
Let us read ancient history then (year 2009):
There was never an arguement that wiz doesn't hit hard on heavy armor in the early stage of the game. But the damage should never amount to a one shot... else no one attacker would ever win a TW... you know with cata barb being one shotted and all.
Pretty sure I was in the same guild as sticky back in the days... probably even zhen with him. By memory... his gear level wasn't all that high.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Troll be Trolling People b:shutup b:chuckle
Ps. Yes i don't know a lot about game mechanics like all you people do but i know the basics b:chuckle People to eager to jump down peoples throats b:laugh0 -
____BM____ - Sanctuary wrote: »Troll be Trolling People b:shutup b:chuckle
Ps. Yes i don't know a lot about game mechanics like all you people do but i know the basics b:chuckle People to eager to jump down peoples throats b:laugh
Too bad there is a difference between trolling and making yourself look like an idiot.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Welcome to the PWI forums, where the epeen is king and common sense fears to tread. :P____BM____ - Sanctuary wrote: »Troll be Trolling People b:shutup b:chuckle
Ps. Yes i don't know a lot about game mechanics like all you people do but i know the basics b:chuckle People to eager to jump down peoples throats b:laugh
That being said... claiming a certain amount of dex oneshots a certain amount of people of a certain type goes a little beyond "the basics." Maybe you meant it in a more general "I-pulled-these-numbers-out-of-my-***" sense rather than those specific stats, but don't expect anyone on this board to be capable of that level of nuance. XD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »Too bad there is a difference between trolling and making yourself look like an idiot.
Hmm... Have you seen no trolls on the forums...? Pretty sure 100% of them look like idiots, ijs b:bye0 -
____BM____ - Sanctuary wrote: »Hmm... Have you seen no trolls on the forums...? Pretty sure 100% of them look like idiots, ijs b:bye
There is me... who trolled people by making them believe/question the existance of ignore def level charms. Then there is you... who trolled people with lack of knowledge/understanding of basic game mechanics.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
____BM____ - Sanctuary wrote: »Does make me laugh a little bit how people think that more dex = more damage in 1 hit b:chuckle
For LA classes (Assassins and Archers), their damage is calculated via dexterity rather than strength, which means more dex on an archer/sin = more damage for them. The crit, accuracy, and evasion bonuses are pluses.[SIGPIC]Octavia is best pony![/SIGPIC]
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