Archer Skill Changes in "Dynasty" Expansion

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  • unceuncerave
    unceuncerave Posts: 471 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    unceuncerave wrote: »
    If they didn't need it before they won't need it now. Only fails without the coin to build a good archer will.
    unceuncerave wrote: »
    Again I'll say it. If they didn't need it before they won't need it now.

    Do I really have to say it a third time decus?

    And on that note how many archers do you think are sage? Let alone will go to sage even AFTER this update? Very few.

    The ratio of fail demon to fail sage is about 20:1 IJS.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] for GD Onion 2012 b:victory
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    shotwhointhewhat wrote: »
    I like how the sages are talking about demon having crutches and all.

    After update, how many sages are going to be leaning on that crit boof like they couldn't stand without it?

    I have no problem killing r9s without "leaning" on any crit buff... how is it going to be any different after the buff... they'll still die just as the same.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • shotwhointhewhat
    shotwhointhewhat Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I have no problem killing r9s without "leaning" on any crit buff... how is it going to be any different after the buff... they'll still die just as the same.

    If you have no problem killing rank 9s, then they suck. If any rank 9 is good, it should be tough to kill them unless you overpower them in shard/refines.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    You guys are so cute. You don't see the irony in this? In this thread, to choose a cultivation that offers advantages has been labelled as having a crutch, yet here you go and defend Sages saying "oh the good Sages won't need the new Quickshot because they're good" hahaha.

    You're all leaning on crutches for getting lv 11 skills, and for getting R9. I could say that the vast majority of R9 archers lean on their R9 crutch because they suck, so there you go. XD
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    unceuncerave wrote: »
    Do I really have to say it a third time decus?

    Do I really need to explain levity to you?






    More to the point, I have NEVER understood the superiority complex that the sage archers on these forums have. To claim that there are more fail demon archers than sage archers is, in and of itself, logically flawed. When you increase the sample size, then you skew results. Also, and this is directed generally, to claim that cultivation options are "crutches" is not only condescending, but it's idiotic. That's like if I said that sage clerics rely on the "Magic Shell channeling crutch" or that demon BMs rely on the "8 second HF crutch." Inherent attributes are just that. Yes, demons get neato bonuses to crit and aps via skills. You can argue the effectiveness all you'd like, but arguing that sage is better because you don't rely on beneficial procs that you identify as aiding lesser-skilled players is just mindless posturing.
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • unceuncerave
    unceuncerave Posts: 471 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Do I really need to explain levity to you?






    More to the point, I have NEVER understood the superiority complex that the sage archers on these forums have. To claim that there are more fail demon archers than sage archers is, in and of itself, logically flawed. When you increase the sample size, then you skew results. Also, and this is directed generally, to claim that cultivation options are "crutches" is not only condescending, but it's idiotic. That's like if I said that sage clerics rely on the "Magic Shell channeling crutch" or that demon BMs rely on the "8 second HF crutch." Inherent attributes are just that. Yes, demons get neato bonuses to crit and aps via skills. You can argue the effectiveness all you'd like, but arguing that sage is better because you don't rely on beneficial procs that you identify as aiding lesser-skilled players is just mindless posturing.
    Nothing to do with superiority. Pretty sure we are just tired of Demon's bashing Sages all the time. And god forbid we do it back without QQing.Not flawed in my thinking at all. Look at the Sage to demon ratio. Look how many are hyper babies and can't play their class. Hmmmm It looks like It's A LOT more demon then sage. I never said sage was better because of the lack of skills procs. I just said it helps the demon fails be less fail. Please read. We call it a crutch because there are so many times I've seen a hyper baby who normally fails against a person finally win because they got a stun/qs proc with a purge into their target. It's called luck not skill. Maybe you don't see it much on your servers. But maybe you should check out others Specifically HT and see how horrible 90% of our archers are. Specifically the PvE guild GoldDiggerz who cant PVP for ****.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] for GD Onion 2012 b:victory
  • Niteshadows - Harshlands
    Niteshadows - Harshlands Posts: 583 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Do I really need to explain levity to you?






    More to the point, I have NEVER understood the superiority complex that the sage archers on these forums have. To claim that there are more fail demon archers than sage archers is, in and of itself, logically flawed. When you increase the sample size, then you skew results. Also, and this is directed generally, to claim that cultivation options are "crutches" is not only condescending, but it's idiotic. That's like if I said that sage clerics rely on the "Magic Shell channeling crutch" or that demon BMs rely on the "8 second HF crutch." Inherent attributes are just that. Yes, demons get neato bonuses to crit and aps via skills. You can argue the effectiveness all you'd like, but arguing that sage is better because you don't rely on beneficial procs that you identify as aiding lesser-skilled players is just mindless posturing.

    9 seconds buddy. b:bye
    Do you hate me? Good, that makes for an adequate conversation starter.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    No you're not getting it, Sage doesn't require more skill because it's the same auto attacking in most situations! All archers crit and most Purge, thus all archers roll hits for luck. To call out Demons for "relying on luck" better mean you people are killing with 1% crit rate and no Purge bow, which is simply not true.

    It stands to reason that any bad archer out there can roll either cultivation path, or choose no cultivation path, and let their R9 gear auto attack them to victory in most situations. It's just very pretentious to imply that the Sage path actually requires more skill when archers of both paths would use normal attacks against their intended targets in mass PvP situations. I don't even think most Sage archers would say Sage requires more skill, most would say Sage path requires more gear.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • U_Sasuke - Sanctuary
    U_Sasuke - Sanctuary Posts: 643 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    3 lines!

    Archer section sucks! all i see is math! losers

    Kawaijen a pve archer man! stop arguing with this loser regarding pvp!

    Quilue U so hawt! b:dirty
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    shotwhointhewhat wrote: »
    If you have no problem killing rank 9s, then they suck. If any rank 9 is good, it should be tough to kill them unless you overpower them in shard/refines.

    Not my fault that 99.9% of the players suck. Gear up or uninstall...
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Strife_son - Sanctuary
    Strife_son - Sanctuary Posts: 1,217 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    You're obviously more skilled if you use more of your skills.
  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Niteshadows - Harshlands wrote: »
    9 seconds buddy. b:bye

    I love how you ignored the entire post to fix a small error that has nothing to do with the main point being said. Right, I forgot, you're the dude that quoted yourself in your sig.

    /coolbearwave
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • Sidwinder - Heavens Tear
    Sidwinder - Heavens Tear Posts: 353 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Not my fault that 99.9% of the players suck. Gear up or uninstall...

    If they have R9 they are already geared up you mean learn how to play or uninstall.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Sidwinder-HT
  • doctorloaded
    doctorloaded Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    its a very nice idea
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Sidwinder - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If they have R9 they are already geared up you mean learn how to play or uninstall.

    If you have r9... you would know that r9 by itself is **** (for archers)... probably worse then ****. At stock, I have less hp then my geared tt90 set. Took me quiet a bit of refines to get its hp to match my geared r8 set. A decent part of the r9 population has +5-7 refines or even lower... there is really no difference one shotting one of those as compared to someone with tt90 gears. People need to understand that gear and refines need to go hand in hand. Getting one without the other is a huge waste of time.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Vindis - Dreamweaver
    Vindis - Dreamweaver Posts: 614 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No you're not getting it, Sage doesn't require more skill because it's the same auto attacking in most situations! All archers crit and most Purge, thus all archers roll hits for luck. To call out Demons for "relying on luck" better mean you people are killing with 1% crit rate and no Purge bow, which is simply not true.

    It stands to reason that any bad archer out there can roll either cultivation path, or choose no cultivation path, and let their R9 gear auto attack them to victory in most situations. It's just very pretentious to imply that the Sage path actually requires more skill when archers of both paths would use normal attacks against their intended targets in mass PvP situations. I don't even think most Sage archers would say Sage requires more skill, most would say Sage path requires more gear.

    ^ This.

    Archers play the same way and use the same skills. Mostly the same few skills and auto attack stuff.

    If an archer is a fail, they fail regardless of cultivation.
    Ring Engraving/Amulet Carving Guide - pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1174451

    Retired from PWI.

    b:bye
  • Sidwinder - Heavens Tear
    Sidwinder - Heavens Tear Posts: 353 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If you have r9... you would know that r9 by itself is **** (for archers)... probably worse then ****. At stock, I have less hp then my geared tt90 set. Took me quiet a bit of refines to get its hp to match my geared r8 set. A decent part of the r9 population has +5-7 refines or even lower... there is really no difference one shotting one of those as compared to someone with tt90 gears. People need to understand that gear and refines need to go hand in hand. Getting one without the other is a huge waste of time.

    Nope don't have R9 I don't pvp, though I should of put a ? at the end of my post because I wasn't sure what you meant but now I do.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Sidwinder-HT
  • Wytche - Harshlands
    Wytche - Harshlands Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    ^ This.

    Archers play the same way and use the same skills. Mostly the same few skills and auto attack stuff.

    If an archer is a fail, they fail regardless of cultivation.


    Heh @ archers play the same way. And LOL @ sage auto attacks in mass pvp.
  • Wytche - Harshlands
    Wytche - Harshlands Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    BTW, the reason I came here was not to troll the pointedly stupid discussion you're having about sage archers, but to thank asterelle. I'm astonished at the work she/he puts in on archer related stuff. Whoever you are, you are cool. Thanks again.

    -W
  • Bhavyy - Raging Tide
    Bhavyy - Raging Tide Posts: 1,083 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    That crit bonus is seriously needed!!
    No longer will sage archers considered fail due to cultivation path!
    Time for Devote to update the thread :3
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    youtube.com/bhavenmurji
    pwcalc.com/65816fd7725681e1
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »
    That crit bonus is seriously needed!!
    No longer will sage archers considered fail due to cultivation path!
    Time for Devote to update the thread :3

    Even with the crit boost I wouldn't go sage on a lower geared archer.... and at high-end gear cultivation doesn't matter anyways so it's not like it changes anything there.

    And yes, I'm making that decision based on playing both cultivation paths.
  • Iyania - Heavens Tear
    Iyania - Heavens Tear Posts: 612 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »
    That crit bonus is seriously needed!!
    No longer will sage archers considered fail due to cultivation path!
    Time for Devote to update the thread :3

    No one considers sage archers fail because of their culti path. It just so happens that a lot of sage archers actually fail. Some of the most respected archers on HT back in the day were sage (defected, Kiyoshi, thehate).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Anatidaephobia - The Fear That You are Being Watched by a Duck
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Iyania - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    No one considers sage archers fail because of their culti path. It just so happens that a lot of sage archers actually fail. Some of the most respected archers on HT back in the day were sage (defected, Kiyoshi, thehate).

    This.

    Plus, every true archer knows that the most OP archer is a sage with TT99 +5. We merely choose not to go on the path of sage because that temptation would make the game far too easy.
  • Reninz - Dreamweaver
    Reninz - Dreamweaver Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Hmm just curious with the skill changes....
    Would demon serated arrow actually be decent now? since it heals 100 hp now o_o
    And uhh how much bleed ticks would that be o.o
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Reninz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Hmm just curious with the skill changes....
    Would demon serated arrow actually be decent now? since it heals 100 hp now o_o
    And uhh how much bleed ticks would that be o.o

    Hahahahahahahahahahaha... no.
  • Iyania - Heavens Tear
    Iyania - Heavens Tear Posts: 612 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Reninz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Hmm just curious with the skill changes....
    Would demon serated arrow actually be decent now? since it heals 100 hp now o_o
    And uhh how much bleed ticks would that be o.o

    Would 100 HP save you from death? No? Then it's useless.

    As for the bleed ticker, I guess we have to decide when we actually use it, but looking at the numbers, I think it's not worth it....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Anatidaephobia - The Fear That You are Being Watched by a Duck
  • Sint - Harshlands
    Sint - Harshlands Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    But will it make people rage?
  • Teramat - Archosaur
    Teramat - Archosaur Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Just want to ask a question
    I just read on the Chinese PW web. It says sage stormrange eagle decreases 50% phy and mag def not 50% phy and mag attack. Which is correct? I am sure it 's phy and mag def because i read that line many times

    Proud to be a sage archer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Sint - Harshlands wrote: »
    But will it make people rage?
    Not really. It'll only continue to make people laugh at you.
    Teramat - Archosaur wrote: »
    Just want to ask a question
    I just read on the Chinese PW web. It says sage stormrange eagle decreases 50% phy and mag def not 50% phy and mag attack. Which is correct? I am sure it 's phy and mag def because i read that line many times

    Proud to be a sage archer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Thank you for proving Aes' point from earlier.
  • deadwieght
    deadwieght Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    stormrage decreases phy and magic attack.

    i am wondering about the translation. the DoTs state that the damage is based on weapon attack. is this a fail in the translation? cause that actually means the DoTs are getting weaker. my weapon damage does roughy 2500, thats 1/2 of the current damage my DoTs do. im hoping that the correct definition is base physical damage, that would make them actually better.

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