Archer Skill Changes in "Dynasty" Expansion

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Edit: The official PWI name of this expansion is "Sirens of War".

We might as well have a discussion topic for this. I've updated my PW-CN client and can confirm these changes:


Awaken: Cooldown reduced from 15 minutes to 5 minutes.

Blood Vow: Cooldown reduced from 5 minutes to 2 minutes. Range changed from 30m to standard "Ranged". No longer lowers own max hp. Damage increased by 150% weapon attack. Metal damage duration lowered from 30s to 9s. Total metal damage over time increased by 4444.

Blessing of Condor: Duration increased from 6 seconds to 10 seconds.


Sage Quickshot: Changed from "50% chance to give 20 additional chi" to "10 additional chi and 10s of 20% more crit"

Sage Stun Arrow: Changed from 1 additional second of stun to 1.5 additional seconds of stun


Sage Stormrage Eagleon: Changed from a 30s duration to 15s duraction. Total metal damage over time increased by 600% of weapon attack. Phys / Mag attack debuff increased from 20% equipment value to 50% equipment value.

Demon Stormrage Eagleon: Slow effect raised from 50% to 80%. Total metal damage over time increased by 600% of weapon attack.

Sage Vicious Arrow: Duration decreased from 15s to 9 seconds. Total damage increased by 100% weapon attack. MP drain raised from 100 MP per tick to 300 MP. Increases wood damage over time by 35%

Demon Vicious Arrow: Duration decreased from 12s to 6s. Damage increased by 100% weapon attack.

Sage Serrated Arrow: Duration decreased from 12s to 6s. Damage increased by 100% weapon attack.

Demon Serrated Arrow: Duration decreased from 15s to 9s. Damage increased by 100% weapon attack. Health regen per tick increased from 40 to 100.


Thoughts:
The lower cooldowns on Awaken and BV are very welcome as people tend to hold those skills back for when they are most needed and you end up rarely using them. Now you won't have to save them as long.

Sage is getting some serious firepower with Quickshot and an even longer stun. Maybe Sage is more viable now?

The DoT skills arent buffed enough for me to consider using them.

I'm really disappointed they didn't fix some of the skills archers complain about. Winged shell is still a crappy chi waste. Deadly Shot is still an inferior take aim. Whisper shot still is way too short. The 3 DoTs we are blessed with are still junk.

Ohh well.

shotwhointhewhat

So after all the sage vs demon debates in the past, can this update conclude that even the chinese thought demon was the better path so they had to boost sage a little?

witniss

More power to the sage eas!
Thank pangu for the lower CDs on bv and awaken, 15 minutes is ridiculous IMO

Iyania - Heavens Tear

Sage Quickshot: Changed from "50% chance to give 20 additional chi" to "10 additional chi and 10s of 20% more crit"

Is it guaranteed 20% crit or 50% chance to get 20% crit? I've heard it was the latter.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Iyania - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Is it guaranteed 20% crit or 50% chance to get 20% crit? I've heard it was the latter.

100% chance

witniss

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

100% chance

b:shockedb:dirty
Hello 70% crit

Iyania - Heavens Tear

That's so broken o.o

witniss

Iyania - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That's so broken o.o

Sage needs respect

Aldryami - Sanctuary

Can someone check the files:

Does Stormrage Hornyeagle produce twins now?

Quilue - Sanctuary

How many ticks do Serrated do with this update? Is it once per second or once every 3s?

Before it ticked 5 times over 15s, so it means you got 200 hp, does this shortened tick duration mean we'll get 300 hp out of this? Highly relevant to everyone's interest I'm sure! Sages be mad we get a non spark healing skill.

Jokes aside...it's still horrible. Wow 100% weapon attack added to the DoT! Congratu****inglations! Now you tick ~9k over 9s rather than 6k over 15s...

XxRagzxx - Sanctuary

Sage got a really good overhaul imo. I don't think demon is an auto choice any more. If you can invest a decent amount of coin into an Archer, sage might be the way to go. Demon always had the crit and aps advantage, but now it looks like sage easily wins in terms of crit. I find this severely disappointing, after it took them this long to "re-balance".

In terms of the 100 skills, I think BV getting its cooldown reduced is going to be a major factor in PvE as well as PvP. Maybe this will open the door a bit wider for Archers in caster vana squads?

Edit: Btw Asterelle is there a way to tell if they fixed Blazing Arrow? Getting annoying not being able to buff over and having to wait until it wears off like Magic Shell for clerics.

laloner

shotwhointhewhat wrote: »

So after all the sage vs demon debates in the past, can this update conclude that even the chinese thought demon was the better path so they had to boost sage a little?

My opinion is that changing blood vow made the advantage of sage STA's larger max HP reduction unimportant so they gave something to sage to make up for it.

FlyRanger - Dreamweaver

Im at 57 crit, if sage qs is 100% sure ima go sage **** it lol. Galvanic aura + qs 100% crit and the stun also is a good thing to consider changing. and i want that blazing arrow and bowmastery and take aim too if this comes no doubt im going sage.b:dirty

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

In B4 Sage gets the last laugh now.b:chuckle

Demon was an auto choice because people didn't look at all of the skills carefully and went Demon because of Quickshot for APS *Derp face*. (And Claws /eyeroll)

Though I will say Demon overall is a little better then sage currently for your average player until they have endgame gear. Then Sage really shows its strengths over demon.

Dylena - Raging Tide

I wonder if they changed it on condor while they were still at it so it doesn't cancel out the regular evasion buff, do you know anything about that Asty? Else I'm pretty happy with archer changes, less CD on those 2 makes life a lot easier and making sage better was needed for those who went sage, gives people a better choice between sage and demon.

I agree with you about the things they didn't change tho, I was hoping those were gonna be better.. :<

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

I suppose I should get Awaken now.

So, forgive me for asking, but is Stormrage really still bad now? +600% damage seems to be a significant increase.

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I suppose I should get Awaken now.

So, forgive me for asking, but is Stormrage really still bad now? +600% damage seems to be a significant increase.

Why didn't you have awaken before? O_o

So many uses for it >_>
(Just bought Sage Quickshot for 3mil :P)

Well for sages it might be worth it because of the 50% attack reduction. Though sadly the duration is cut in half to 15 seconds so it's circumstantial if you want to burn those 2 sparks. You might be more willing to now that Awaken has such a short cooldown.

DarkMarch - Lost City

I like the new archer skills changes!!


Sage archers definitely needs some good nerfs... just hoping demon archers arent being made too badly comparing to other classes

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I suppose I should get Awaken now.

So, forgive me for asking, but is Stormrage really still bad now? +600% damage seems to be a significant increase.

+600% damage is roughly your 1.2 times your base damage. If the opponent has 8k mres divide that by 3 , then divide that by 4 for the pvp reduction, and then divide that again over 5 ticks.

For my +12 R9 bow it will typically add 350 damage per tick. Why do the devs bother with such nonsense?

XxRagzxx - Sanctuary wrote: »

Btw Asterelle is there a way to tell if they fixed Blazing Arrow? Getting annoying not being able to buff over and having to wait until it wears off like Magic Shell for clerics.

Dylena - Raging Tide wrote: »

I wonder if they changed it on condor while they were still at it so it doesn't cancel out the regular evasion buff, do you know anything about that Asty?

I can't tell. I can't use these skills in-game and can only see what they changed in the skill descriptions. Questions like that will have to wait.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why didn't you have awaken before? O_o

So many uses for it >_>
(Just bought Sage Quickshot for 3mil :P)

50m for something I'd use twice or thrice during TW? You know that I still don't have full R9, right? And I'm still using Sky Demon's Pearl?

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

50m for something I'd use twice or thrice during TW? You know that I still don't have full R9, right? And I'm still using Sky Demon's Pearl?

It's much cheaper then 50mil now.

Treasure hunter gives chrono pages out the butt during x2. You can make the skill for like.. 20mil now.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's much cheaper then 50mil now.

Treasure hunter gives chrono pages out the butt during x2. You can make the skill for like.. 20mil now.

When ever you sell chrono for 1 mil each... let me know... I'll buy all.

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

When ever you sell chrono for 1 mil each... let me know... I'll buy all.

Buy the maps from other players and get them yourself? ._.

It's like morons who pay 15mil+ for a skill when they could do a work around and make it for 6mil...

Easiest example.

Demon Dagger Devotion People pay like 15-20mil on our server

You could make it for 6mil

Buy the entire book set for 300 advance mystical pages (450 tokens of luck = ~60mil = 6mil per book)

Or cube necklce for 120mil+ when you can make it for 85mil....

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Buy the maps from other players and get them yourself? ._.

The whole point of me buying stuff is so that I don't have to do the work myself. I am sure I can get chronos for average of less then 500k a piece... if I choose to pick up maps every day and proceed to spend hours hunting them down during 2x. The problem is that I don't really want to fly around the map looking for a chest.

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Buy the entire book set for 300 advance mystical pages (450 tokens of luck = ~60mil = 6mil per book)

I am not sure it works that way. Just cause it averages out to 6 mil per book... doesn't by any mean dictates that each book is worth 6 mil. Not sure about sin books, but I know for a fact that you can get all the sage archer books for cheaper then if you were to buy a chip.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

When I bought my Chronos they were 300k b:victory

WnbTank - Archosaur

I almost feel like leveling my archer now. I should do the sage culti today - I got 8 skills (I think) waiting, QS included . Only problem is that as Im not going R8 on archer, I`ll be using HS+5 till I recast it to G16, which prolly takes till ~new years the earliest. I could make it Regenis for 100 raps after I`ve farmed my N3 daggers for sin on next 2x if I got keys left but I kinda prefer farming my barbs axes/armors after sin has N3 daggers.

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

When I bought my Chronos they were 300k b:victory

I got mine from Worldbosses back when it took an ENTIRE faction to take one down. b:surrender

I think I paid 3mil per.. after discount (So I paid ~125mil for both of mine that's including medium ink)

Quilue - Sanctuary

XxRagzxx - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sage got a really good overhaul imo. I don't think demon is an auto choice any more. If you can invest a decent amount of coin into an Archer, sage might be the way to go. Demon always had the crit and aps advantage, but now it looks like sage easily wins in terms of crit. I find this severely disappointing, after it took them this long to "re-balance".

In terms of the 100 skills, I think BV getting its cooldown reduced is going to be a major factor in PvE as well as PvP. Maybe this will open the door a bit wider for Archers in caster vana squads?

Edit: Btw Asterelle is there a way to tell if they fixed Blazing Arrow? Getting annoying not being able to buff over and having to wait until it wears off like Magic Shell for clerics.

I think it's just a very uncreative way to balance. What would actually have made sense and have allowed Sage to remain competitive would be for example, if Sage QS gave 50% higher crit damage for a duration like the Wolf Emblem buff. Numbers there could of course be adjusted. Sage QS + Barrage would really have been something then...

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

I wouldn't call that an overhaul, it's more like a washed up excuse of an attempt to balance. What would actually have made sense would be if Sage QS gave 50% higher crit damage instead of higher crit rate.

Why? >_>

We hit harder then you as it is. Not to mention our stun is becoming even longer. And You can keep your demon quickshot :P

The extra ~.4 interval doesn't bother me much.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Except how much harder do Sages really hit? With the best weapon damage possible, I'd roughly estimate about 1.8k-2k raw damage, unreduced by PvP, resistances, and assuming 100 attack levels.

That's not really that significant. My vision of Sage vs Demon balance would be Demons getting higher crits and attack speed, while Sage getting higher crit damage and chi gain.

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Except how much harder do Sages really hit? With the best weapon damage possible, I'd roughly estimate about 1.8k-2k raw damage, unreduced by PvP, resistances, and assuming 100 attack levels.

That's not really that significant. My vision of Sage vs Demon balance would be Demons getting higher crits and attack speed, while Sage getting higher crit damage and chi gain.

Well when I Fun PvP with a friend of mine in the same gear I hit about 2ks higher then him (4ks if crits) also to note this is from an unbuffed standpoint. When it's fully buffed it's only about 1k higher. If you would like a reference.

You also have to remember that though in most cases its inconsequential Sage DOES have a higher range that coupled with our longer stun can allow us to do A LOT more potential damage before you can retaliate. (This can be extended with aim low etc) now of course this is potential damage as you can counter with genies and apothocary, but then that's an advantage sage will have over demon because you will have something on cooldown.

Funny you should say chi gain btw. Because they just nerfed my Sage wingspans Chi gain from 100 to 50 at some point ago.