Archer Skill Changes in "Dynasty" Expansion

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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    deadwieght wrote: »
    stormrage decreases phy and magic attack.

    i am wondering about the translation. the DoTs state that the damage is based on weapon attack. is this a fail in the translation? cause that actually means the DoTs are getting weaker. my weapon damage does roughy 2500, thats 1/2 of the current damage my DoTs do. im hoping that the correct definition is base physical damage, that would make them actually better.

    "Increased by"

    So... I'm assuming that it means it'll be Base Initial hit with a DoT that does X% weapon damage + current amount. That's my best guess, anyways.
  • Sint - Harshlands
    Sint - Harshlands Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    truekossy wrote: »
    Not really. It'll only continue to make people laugh at you.

    We got a badass over here.
  • Vindis - Dreamweaver
    Vindis - Dreamweaver Posts: 614 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Sint - Harshlands wrote: »
    We got a badass over here.

    *Fixed for you.


    On a srs note, kossy kinda is a badass.

    @DW: DoTs will still suck, but they will suck less than before.
    Ring Engraving/Amulet Carving Guide - pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1174451

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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    I can now confirm all these changes have made it into our version.

    The only thing I noticed that wasn't mentioned before is that Demon Vicious Arrow now says it "also inflicts mana loss" but it doesn't say how much. Gonna have to test that.
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Thanks for the confirm.

    Demon having a mana burn now will be super OP because nobody ever uses pots! (I'm assuming it's an insignificant amount as always)
  • RankNine - Momaganon
    RankNine - Momaganon Posts: 1,241 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    ok, is sage stromrage any good now or not? 600% (if its true) would kill 80% of the game o.o
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    never kills anyone, only gear, no skill, no life, cash only, eats dogfood to cash more, lives at moms,
    only survives cause of cleric heals, if we had your gear you would lose. b:cryb:cryb:cry
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    RankNine - Momaganon wrote: »
    ok, is sage stromrage any good now or not? 600% (if its true) would kill 80% of the game o.o

    600% weapon attack is like a little more normal arrow. Now remove any benefit of crit or attack level and spread it out over 15 seconds. It's total ****. For a 15s DoT to be actually scary it needs to be around 20,000% weapon attack. That would actually make people want to purify it.
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  • Pouroush - Raging Tide
    Pouroush - Raging Tide Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Well Regardless of everything i suppose the skill revamp may make the pvp scenario more interesting as ppl may try doing new stuff with their skill.

    Yet Again Thanks Asterelle for ur hard work at the Forums b:pleased

    Also the discussion is quite interesting as well.... in between a bit of that trolling
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  • _Shui - Harshlands
    _Shui - Harshlands Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    What about the sage QS at all?
  • RankNine - Momaganon
    RankNine - Momaganon Posts: 1,241 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    600% weapon attack is like a little more normal arrow. Now remove any benefit of crit or attack level and spread it out over 15 seconds. It's total ****. For a 15s DoT to be actually scary it needs to be around 20,000% weapon attack. That would actually make people want to purify it.

    oops, i was thinking of my total physical attack :P sorry and thanks for the explanation :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    noob, can only run, spawnkiller, only white vodoo, only plays for kd,
    never kills anyone, only gear, no skill, no life, cash only, eats dogfood to cash more, lives at moms,
    only survives cause of cleric heals, if we had your gear you would lose. b:cryb:cryb:cry
  • Aldryami - Sanctuary
    Aldryami - Sanctuary Posts: 322 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    _Shui - Harshlands wrote: »
    What about the sage QS at all?

    I feel like a demon archer now. Stun>quickshot>normal. It's quite therapeutic.



    EDIT: Sage QS doesn't stack with other crit buffs, nor does it overwrite them. So, for example if you have the Faction Base crit buff active then Sage QS will have no effect.

    It is better not to activate the faction crit buff as Sage QS gives a much higher crit chance.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The only thing I noticed that wasn't mentioned before is that Demon Vicious Arrow now says it "also inflicts mana loss" but it doesn't say how much. Gonna have to test that.

    That "and mana loss" in the demon skill description was BS. There is no mana loss, its a translation error. PWI translates worse than I do!
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  • Sillmeriia - Sanctuary
    Sillmeriia - Sanctuary Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    That "and mana loss" in the demon skill description was BS. There is no mana loss, its a translation error. PWI translates worse than I do!

    I think it is because they use google translate :P
  • _Shui - Harshlands
    _Shui - Harshlands Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    How much does sage quickshot cost?
    I saw some1 selling for 150m in worldchat today...
  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    that probably varies depending on your server. Still, whoever buys that is an idiot.
  • Aldryami - Sanctuary
    Aldryami - Sanctuary Posts: 322 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Shui you can make it yourself for much less than that.

    I'm sure you knew that, but just in case ;)
  • _Shui - Harshlands
    _Shui - Harshlands Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    ...and right now I just saw someone selling sage QS for 40m in worldchat and in some other catshop here for 35m...
  • Vindis - Dreamweaver
    Vindis - Dreamweaver Posts: 614 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    _Shui - Harshlands wrote: »
    ...and right now I just saw someone selling sage QS for 40m in worldchat and in some other catshop here for 35m...

    Its hilarious that I had 4 Sage QS in my bank at one point years ago from trying to make other books (ended up selling them all for 1~2mil each over time).

    Wonder if anyone stocked up on them and other skills that got good changes to sell.
    Ring Engraving/Amulet Carving Guide - pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1174451

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  • _Shui - Harshlands
    _Shui - Harshlands Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    I hope I wont have to pay as much for my sage QS....
    This is a huge offturnb:cold
  • Geckofreak - Sanctuary
    Geckofreak - Sanctuary Posts: 2,280 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    sage quickshot is going to be very powerful, but demon is still probably better, 50% chance of 20 crit on sage, but 100% chance of 10% crit on both demon stunning and sharp tooth + the constant 2% crit from passive skills. still no way to increase attack rate on sage archer, so i still think the stunning arrow quickshot combo for demon will still make demon better. but sage archers now have a reason they can sage they went sage, other then the excuse of i went sage because everyone else is demon. i am severely disapointed with the rebalancing however. was hoping for all skills to be increased slightly to compete with the newer more overpowered classes, not just sage and demon to become of equal benifit. Huge shame we didnt get an upgrade to winged shell, or 100% stuns

    sorry if this has already been said, i did not want to spend the time to read through 17 pages of posts
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  • Vindis - Dreamweaver
    Vindis - Dreamweaver Posts: 614 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Geckofreak - Sanctuary wrote: »
    sage quickshot is going to be very powerful, but demon is still probably better, 100% chance of 20 crit and additional 10 chi on sage, but 50% chance of 10% crit on both demon stunning and sharp tooth + the constant 2% crit from passive skills. still no way to increase attack rate on sage archer, so i still think the stunning arrow quickshot combo for demon will still make demon better. but sage archers now have a reason they can sage they went sage, other then the excuse of i went sage because everyone else is demon. i am severely disappointed with the re-balancing however. was hoping for all skills to be increased slightly to compete with the newer more overpowered classes, not just sage and demon to become of equal benefit. Huge shame we didn't get an upgrade to winged shell, or 100% stuns

    sorry if this has already been said, i did not want to spend the time to read through 17 pages of posts

    *fixed

    Also if you just read like the last 2~3 pages (Maybe from 14/15+) you should be pretty caught up since all the other pages are mad old lol.

    Demon totally has more dps though. That is unarguable.
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  • Ligeia - Harshlands
    Ligeia - Harshlands Posts: 1,144 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Vindis - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Demon totally has more dps though.
    Combined with the chi gain and increased crit rate heaven EA's now have and the 50% proc condition on hell, the DPS is probably very similar over long periods. It's still the same burst vs. consistency issue that's always separated the two.
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  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Well, skills that give you crit rate boosts can't exactly be called consistent unless they absolutely guarantee crits like Demon Sunder for Barbs. The burst vs. consistency still exists between demon/sage very slightly but the line between the two has been massively blurred.
  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    _blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Well, skills that give you crit rate boosts can't exactly be called consistent unless they absolutely guarantee crits like Demon Sunder for Barbs. The burst vs. consistency still exists between demon/sage very slightly but the line between the two has been massively blurred.

    It still achieves kinda the same effect in pvp though. Archer's are hard to fight because demons either proc quickshot for sudden burst of damage you don't expect, or sages go on wild 3-4 crit streaks w/ their crit buff. At R9 the difference can be as much as 2000-4000 hp, so as a mystic I basically have to say, "do I want to AD at 40% hp or risk dying in the next second?" There really isn't an obvious signal on when a good time to AD is.

    For a random LOL analogy...It's kind of like playing tryndamere when the other team has veigar or leblanc. Feels dumb to ult at 60% hp but you kinda have to.
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  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    lol, demons go on "wild" 3-4+ crit streaks too >.> often w/ the added qs bonus, we still have 14% crit w/ demon passives/wings/skill adds. There's no need to talk about critting like it's a sage-only thing now.
  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    *puts on hipster glasses* "Oh I used to crit before it was cool." b:cool
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
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  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    _blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »
    lol, demons go on "wild" 3-4+ crit streaks too >.> often w/ the added qs bonus, we still have 14% crit w/ demon passives/wings/skill adds. There's no need to talk about critting like it's a sage-only thing now.

    That's true, but when we're dealing with probabilities, anything can be generalized like that. Regardless, the average R9 demon (say, 40% crit) has a 6-7% chance of triple critting, while the same sage archer will have around a 11-12% chance, so sages will definitely have larger crit spikes.

    edit: I mean more frequent crit spikes, not larger >.>
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »
    That's true, but when we're dealing with probabilities, anything can be generalized like that. Regardless, the average R9 demon (say, 40% crit) has a 6-7% chance of triple critting, while the same sage archer will have around a 21-22% chance, so sages will definitely have larger crit spikes.

    edit: I mean more frequent crit spikes, not larger >.>

    Sage only gets 8% more crit from their QS proc. 6% if the demon in question is using white wings.

    It's not THAT big of a gap.
  • Iyania - Heavens Tear
    Iyania - Heavens Tear Posts: 612 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    I miss the days when the math and numbers on this forum were thought out and researched.

    If you proc demon QS you have a better chance to fit an extra hit in than sage, which is in itself another chance to crit. You have no idea how much it annoyed me when I was playing on a certain person's sage archer that I could only hit people 2 times before they run when my demon archer could hit them 3 times easily.
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  • Vindis - Dreamweaver
    Vindis - Dreamweaver Posts: 614 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Iyania - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If you proc demon QS you have a better chance to fit an extra hit in than sage, which is in itself another chance to crit.

    ^ This. Also, lets not forget Demon Spark's aps boost either.
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