Very UNFAIR rules for Magic Classes

_Ghoul_ - Lost City wrote: »

you do not wana go there do you.
how are cata barb in this melee statistic
melee is not only all about aps so before you drag the poor caster into the normal nv
cant wait to hear what lies your gona tell us how we normal barbs gona compare to aps normal nv runs.
normal runs is aps nv and if you think for just a sec that a rainbow nv can be just as good please tell me what drugs your on cos i sure could use some.

so regular nv is aps and caster runs is caster type
where is rainbow nv we sure could use one

GM make us cata barb a ranbow nv plz with 6 time drop rate unlimited times with big damage buff plz.

hmm let see non aps only spamm skill get affected why positive buffs.Barb ream 100% agro stealer and Gm plz give us big boost to we wana be done in less then 7 min with only 3 barbs or less plz

ah, thing is i did go there. and the first thing i said and have been saying since this whole ridiculous QQ started is that casters are the hardest screamers of "unfair unfair!" where as I believe the ones that actually got the short stick in this, are the barbs.

if you havent seen it, albeit in a different thread; same story:

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary wrote: »

./facepalm

Ok, i'm going to try to one more time.

It is not about the fact whether or not YOU, as a caster get into a nirvana squad (any).
It is about the chance you have.
Where that is concerned, you have 2.
Melee's only have 1.
Never mind the fact you say they have an easier time doing these runs it is still the same base fact you have more opportunities than a melee/aps class.

the fact you dont get into a normal/aps class is because quite frankly, you try to get into squad that is advertised on WC. which 99.9% of time are directed at 4-5 aps +10 squads.
I seriously and i mean seriously do not know what the frack is wrong with these people that QQ to form their own squads. is it because it's too much work, or what excuse justifies this now ?
because as it is, there are TON loads of people who QQ here or in WC or in general to other people. combine your effort and do those runs !???? what is stopping you!? seriously, answer me THAT instead of spouting accusation after accusation to PWE/I when the REAL problem lies between the intolerance between casters/melee/aps classes!!




On a side note

You want to know who, of all classes, got the short end of the stick?
-barbs.

they cant get into caster squads because. D'UH they dont cast spells.
they hardly, if ever get into a normal nirvana unless they invested a god awefull amount of time effort or money into getting an aps build, and even THEN they will prefer a sin, bm or archer over a barb. do you see them make mass QQ threads ? NO.

You feel your special to deserve a seperate special case treatment simply because of your class ?

puh-lease....

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary wrote: »

ah, thing is i did go there. and the first thing i said and have been saying since this whole ridiculous QQ started is that casters are the hardest screamers of "unfair unfair!" where as I believe the ones that actually got the short stick in this, are the barbs.

if you havent seen it, albeit in a different thread; same story:

wow bravo i say bravo b:victoryb:victoryb:victory

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sorry maybe I overlook that. But I can swear to you I was in many, many caster nirvana and find 5 people +10(cleric is healing) is extremely rare and I never ever was in that squad. And Zanryu he's main is APS character so he has personal interest to agree with you.

Maybe your squads were bad then... that could be a possibility you know.

BlackMorder - Raging Tide wrote: »

Oh Raapy, didn thought u are so....
You never go nirvana with a 5 aps under +10 weapon, so plz dont talk about this subject, when u are like that ....

and we can't always find +10 DDs, we have to deal with r8 guys, low - high (maybe) refines. Plus it takes ages to find DDs if we filter their weapon, and then we do only 3 runs per day, but ya do unlimited (depend on keys). I thought u are a wise person, but didn noticed u are just lvled to 103, but ur idea is like a lvl 10ish...

I think you have time to form +10 squads since you are allowed to run only 3 runs a day.

*decides not to read all 11 pages*

My thought on this: Casters CAN go to normal nirvana. It isn't like we are banned from going in. YEAH it is HARD to get a squad that will take you... but archers have the same problem and I don't see them whining about it.

I will say I was disappointed to see the glitch gone. In my opinion... the only talisman that should disappear is the person that starts the instance. I know the GMs here can't do anything about it... so that's that. A nice change would be to do just that though.... have only the leader's tali disappear.

Or how about this: Caster nivana bosses drop the same amount/rate of chests as normal (right now... it's higher, how much I don't know for sure) but no tali is required... LIKE THE NORMAL NIRVA.

Personally... I don't GET THE POINT of talismans... nirvana should just be nirvana- and the leader could select if they want the normal or the magic class nirvana. Keys would be all you need. Sometimes... the answer is just so simple.

FanFon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think you have time to form +10 squads since you are allowed to run only 3 runs a day.

Logic is not allowed on these forums. Kindly take your logic and gtfo. b:chuckle

Like I said in that other thread, I did a caster nirvana with a squad that had low gear (a mystic with TT70 gear for example--don't ask; dunno how she lived this long with it) and we went 1.5 hours without even completing the instance. I made a grand total of of 100k in that run, and I ate through half a platinum hp charm.

Yes, it was that bad, and I've gained a new understanding for the elitist casters that have developed since the creation of caster nirvana.

Now this puts me in an awkward situation--I'm a +8 rank 8 psy. If I make it in random squads, it'd be barely. So that leaves me to make my own squads. Now do I "stick to my own kind" so to speak, and deny those who have +2-+3 refines so that the run is smoother and I can make more than 100k? Or do I stick to my normal "take everyone" and never make money as a caster through nirvana?

Or make a sin and just say **** caster nirvana...

Well, I'd made a sin a while ago, quit her out of frustration. After that caster nirvana run, I had a sudden inkling to level her up, even though I know that there is no way in hell I'd be able to afford getting 5.0 (at least not right away).

I didn't even know of the glitch, but I suppose at least they fixed it, even if it's one of those glitches that put caster classes up to par to the apsers.

i'm not playing on pwi since lots of time, but i can tell you all something about times.
I'm talking about a normal nirvana dps run duo(wr 5 aps with fist tt 100 - sin 5aps with 7badges/nirvana reforge daggs - both +10), takes 30 -or less- mins, you duo it with ur friend/teammate/partner/w.e and you share cristals. Do it in 3, in like 15-20 min you end it, 23-24 min max if you add 99keys boss.
A team of 6 (5 dd, basically you need cleric if you dont wanna waste all your earnings in charm/pots/pills) r8 +10 casters takes 20+ min to make one run.
If we think about the fact that r8 price and +10 price is the same, whichever class you choose, I'd rather make a sin or wr instead than a psychic or mage or any other mag class, farm nirvana and with earnings go make my magical class.
If we wanna talk about what's better in melee dps nirvana...

1) Since there's channeling cap on pwi, doesnt matter how fast you can skill, you wont ever outdamage a 5 aps class in pve.
2) 5 aps or even 4 aps means constant 3rd spark.
3) Melees can have berserk on their weapon (5aps + higher chance to crit rather than casters + berserk = a caster cant outdamage...and we go back to point 1)
4) Melees got tangling mire and extreme poison as pdef debuffs, casters havent anything like mire...tho they got one skill but even if i used it i forgot even the name since i didnt notice any difference in damages.
5) Melees got a random wr that can be noob as much as he wants but if he can drop a demon dragon everytime it isnt in cooldown, that will allow him to make same dmgs as if he 3sparked, but at cost of 2 sparks, and rest of party hits 2x normal. Think about the fact a wr can dragon while he's on third spark too...
6) Veno's 0def, useless in nirvana casters, but making people **** in melee nirvana.
As you can see, casters nirvana is more than far from melee nirvana. It's just if you dont have what to do, call ur friends with good gear and go there wasting your time. At that point, if you dont even have fun in doing it, follow what some people kept writing on all pwe games forums...Go out, get a life, get a job and waste ur money on a ol game. xD Oh right, i guess noone would like to waste on a game money he/she sweated for.

Then what else is left to do? Make melee class for farming or keep qqing on forums. u.u

After all this, if cc glitch was all that useful for it, and allowed casters to make it in 10 mins, then it was one of the first good things i'd hear abt casters farming endgame instances in a pure csers game.(and csing on casters doesnt bring the power in pve, sadly)

people some to miss the point that the whole caster nirvana instance is a bonus for caster's compared to other classes. the glitch was just that a glitch.
i could understand the whole QQ if the dev's had removed caster nirvana from the game but they haven't so the bonus for caster is still there

greed is good right ?

Its not a necro. The last post before his was made a week ago. As for combining the two Nirvanas, if that were to happen I'd rather see the bosses have other properties that make APS less effective than just tacking on Physical Immunity to a few bosses (much like what EU is like).

Its not like the other bosses prior to those should be Elemental Immune, so why should either Melee or Caster be left to twiddle their thumbs when facing a boss they can barely harm (if at all)?

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

Poor thing. Do casters and melees have tags on them that says "Farming/ PvP" when you first start playing? There is no such thing as 'Casters weren't meant to be farmers'; that's a prejudiced habit placed on by the players.

This isn't a necro, nor does he look desperate.

Please, please take your sweet time to explain how the combination of the two nirvana, the elimination of the talisman, and the necessity of a more thorough squad within a farming instance that has drops aimed at all types of gear a horrible idea?

Edit: In case you didn't get what I mean by all types of gear, I mean you need crystals for HA/LA/and guess what? Arcane Armor/Weapon too.

Generally in mmorpgs melees = the farmers and caster = pk. The melee= farmers concept has been around much longer then this game ever has been.

He kinda does cause this is hit last ditch effort to try to change peoples opinions by using faulty logic. Oh look we have 2 giant threads so you should change the game. No what you have is 2 giant threads of players arguing. If these 2 threads were more unified like why remove the faerie boxes from solo mode he would not.

It is a necro in my opinion. Far starters if he were to not post on this what are the chances this would have actually resurface? Know what I should post on lets remove blood paint thread once a week so it's not a necro, and make no significant contribution to the topic. He is not adding anything relevant to the topic. The main point of his post was the 24000 views. That by it self should be another thread about how "the gms don't respond".

The combination is a horrible idea because you are ruining a perfectly fine dungeon by tweeking it. Example fc was perfectly fine as a farming instance before it was converted to and exp instance.

The only thing you would do by combining the two runs is hurting the bottom line. This would equal less casters going in general, or less melees going in general. Overall it would be less nirvy runs being done. Hurting the bottom line and the supply equals higher prices. There are more melees with nirvy gear then casters with it so if you did want to get the gear the caster community would suffer more. The only thing you would be doing is pushing the weaker aps toons back to the tt mines and solo fc. The same goes for the people who solo 3-x. TT gear would become cheaper while nirvy would skyrocket once again due to demand. The new prices would keep the poor people poor while the rich get richer. Rich/well equiped toons run nirvy while the rest of the game gets set back.

Combining the two runs would also spark a higher level of elitism. The mentality would be *if I have to take a caster with me it might as well not be a crappy useless one* and vice versa. Currently you can run caster runs with sub par casters, but once you combine it good luck finding a squad, and good luck on the 6 man aps less runs also which would now most likely take over an hour.

FanFon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Generally in mmorpgs melees = the farmers and caster = pk. The melee= Farmers concept has been around much longer then this game ever has been.

He kinda does cause this is hit last ditch effort to try to change peoples opinions by using faulty logic. Oh look we have 2 giant threads so you should change the game. No what you have is 2 giant threads of players arguing. If these 2 threads were more unified like why remove the faerie boxes from solo mode he would not.

It is a necro in my opinion. Far starters if he were to not post on this what are the chances this would have actually resurface? Know what i should post on lets remove blood paint thread once a week so it's not a necro. He is not adding anything relevant to the topic. The main point of his post was the 24000 views. That by it self should be another thread about how "the gms don't respond".

The combination is a horrible idea because you are ruining a perfectly fine dungeon by tweeking it. Example fc was perfectly fine as a farming instance before it was converted to and exp instance.

Generally speaking, there is no such rule on those games either either. It is a prejudiced concept adopted by players. Before PWI became a cesspool of APS/Speed, plenty of classes went into TT, when that was high in demand. The only complaints I saw about those was the Barb repair and barb/cleric first pick. Nothing that didn't include Casters.

The argument about the Caster Nirvana is two completely different concepts: Casters were complaining about the limits on their nirvana. Melee were complaining that the Casters were using a glitch. I don't know why two threads were started, but the same conclusions have been said to fix this problem: Either combine the two Nirvana so both Caster and melee are wholly welcome, or get rid of the talisman and set the drop prices at the same rate as normal nirvana. Other, less important threads have been bumped for no reason, so this isn't a necro. It has wholesome solutions to the disagreements that both Melee and Caster have pointed out. Bumping two threads about the situation is a bit much, admittedly.

The conversion of FCC and the conversion of Nirvana are not as game wrecking as you are using your comparison to be. Converting FCC into a quick leveling instance is definitely game-breaking and has been proven so[Goonz]. Tweaking[Not completely changing] Nirvana to welcome all sorts of classes is an opportunity for all classes to farm/make money. Its not 'perfectly fine' if 1) PWI was forced to make a second, twin instance because of the exclusion of the Caster class, and 2) Bosses with millions of HP/tricks to them are zoomed through because they die in under 5 seconds to melee-only squads that don't even need cleric nowadays. =/

I don't want to start up the entire argument again, but I see no reason for melee to post in threads like this if all they're going to do is completely close their minds/laugh at the Caster frustration. Nor do I see the reasons for Casters to rage at the melees, even. This is Caster vs. PWI, not Caster vs. Melee.

FanFon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Back then people had no choice but to take high level casters due to lack of high levels.

Wrong. Back then, 5.0 and APS existed but not as wide spread/nearly impossible to get/no one cared. Axe BMs were 'pro' and the Barb/Cleric were necessary. You took what you could get in order to farm your gears, and more wholesome squads were accepted. Now, people have actual choice as to what they take because nearly everyone has a level 100, and what they want to take is the fastest and strongest DPS. If it were true that high refines = acceptable damage output, then I wouldn't expect there to be any squad problems for any kind of instance. Plus, this only seems to be the case for Nirvana, since it holds the highest profit.

I don't assume anything. I don't know or care if you, in particular, have a Caster or not. What I said stands. Its no point banging heads with the Caster class if you are a melee and you don't want to see things from both sides of the coin. Just like its no point in Casters banging heads with melee because PWI gave them the means to kill bosses in under five seconds. The problem is against PWI, not against each other.

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wrong. Back then, 5.0 and APS existed but not as wide spread/nearly impossible to get/no one cared. Axe BMs were 'pro' and the Barb/Cleric were necessary. You took what you could get in order to farm your gears, and more wholesome squads were accepted. Now, people have actual choice as to what they take because nearly everyone has a level 100, and what they want to take is the fastest and strongest DPS. If it were true that high refines = acceptable damage output, then I wouldn't expect there to be any squad problems for any kind of instance. Plus, this only seems to be the case for Nirvana, since it holds the highest profit.

I don't assume anything. I don't know or care if you, in particular, have a Caster or not. What I said stands. Its no point banging heads with the Caster class if you are a melee and you don't want to see things from both sides of the coin.Just like its no point in Casters banging heads with melee because PWI gave them the means to kill bosses in under five seconds. The problem is against PWI, not against each other.

Back then there weren't too many high levels to pick from.

How can you make a valid argument if you don't see both sides? Just cause I choose my side does not mean i do not see the other point of view. Once again you assume too much. I do understand both sides of the argument.

In my opinion it kinda is what most of the argument in this thread is about that.

It is against each other when there are those who stick with the PWI side.

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Venos were among the best instance (HH) farmers long before 5 APS or even the Tideborn class even existed. I don't know where you get off making a comment about casters not being farmers in this game.

Once again i'm talking about mmorpgs in general. Venos farming would be one to those outliers in statistics.