Countries with VAT fees - Change in ZEN Charge Policy
Comments
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So let me get this straight, the eu community is mad because a law was enforced on goods out of country and now because you almost have to pay 50 for 50 gold and your mad? Lmfao wtf, us americans have been paying 50 for 50 this whole time. I owned a ps (the server was sold and is still up and running) for another game and let me tell you...i didnt give any discounts to any country. 50 dollars was 50 euro and 50 pound...Personally think you should be thanking pwe for paying the tax for you. Seems not so greedy, why in the world are you complaining about paying for a f2p game? PWE doesnt make you charge gold, like others have stated its an OPTION.
If the game is dead as many of you have stated...why in gods name are you on the forum bytching about this new tax. Makes no sense to me...ijs0 -
You do know that 50 USD =! 50 Euro? According to your logic I should move to russia and pay 50 Russian Ruble for 5000 Zen. That's about 1.57 USD. I'm gonna be the richest guy on teh server. b:dirty"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."
- Jaya Ballard, Task Mage0 -
They weren't slow, PWE was actually covering those costs themselves until they were forced to add the VAT fees by the law. So, basically, PWE has been giving European Union customers a discount on Zen for almost a year or more now, and they haven't been tooting their own horn about it. People should be thanking them for the last year or so, but instead they're ******** at them for something that is the lawmakers' fault, not PWEs. Retaliating against PWE for this only punishes the people who've been quietly giving you a discount all this time.
At least, that's my take on the situation based on what I've read here.
lol, blame us for not believing PWE anymore,
after all,, they are the ones who keep lying and hiding from the community
dont expect any trust from our side0 -
it is what it is and this was like 6 years agoArenaceous - Lost City wrote: »You do know that 50 USD =! 50 Euro? According to your logic I should move to russia and pay 50 Russian Ruble for 5000 Zen. That's about 1.57 USD. I'm gonna be the richest guy on teh server. b:dirty
ps russia was blocked due to their great game hax0 -
Just because you don't want to believe it's true, doesn't mean it isn't true.
Just read Shijoru's link a bit further up this page. It makes it pretty clear that how you think things work, at least regarding this case with electronically provided services (which is quite different than lollipops, mind you), are not correct and the company is indeed required to charge the EU's VAT tax.
If you can show a law that disproves that, I'd like to see it, but completely made-up lollipop company examples are neither evidence of anything, nor are they exactly relevant since it's a different kind of service.
i didnt say they dont have to pay taxes and so on. If u read again u ll sure see.
And tbh, if the company has to pay 1k dollar tax or vat for each zen, i still wont care about this, like no other customer worldwide wouldnt either. So i dont have to show u law.
Its still up to the company to adjust sales prices for customers. And like here, where customers from all countries gather at one "virtual place" and interact, "merch" with each other with real money, there is in my opinion no other choice then same exchange rate for everybody. At least to keep it "fair" or whatever u want to call it.
I dont want to talk about the "fair" point, that would be another long long story.
But like it is now, changed rate to huge disadvantage for a big part of the paying customers, its more then legit if ppl rage? Isnt it?0 -
Sabella - Harshlands wrote: »it is what it is and this was like 6 years ago
ps russia was blocked due to their great game hax
Was just an example. What would you have done on your private server if you had a Polish costumer who wanted to charge zen. Give him 5000 Zen for 50 Polish zloty? That's like 15.23 USD."Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."
- Jaya Ballard, Task Mage0 -
I guess first of all we need to get some faqs:
What is ZEN?
" ZEN is the name of the virtual currency used throughout all of Perfect World Entertainment's games (excluding Torchlight). ZEN is used to purchase items in each of the games' cash shops to enhance the user's gameplay experience. "
https://billing.perfectworld.com/whatiszen
- > So we actually have to exchange our money for ZEN and not buying it. Therefor (i guess) we dont have to pay any VAT. I also see a problem with those pre-paid-cards. Is it possible to import them to Europe? If it's cheaper i'll use them if it's possible. x3
Transparency?
Is it possible to get information about how much money "exchange" Europe and the USA?
- > People/gamers are interessted in that faq especially for the percentage of the countries.
Premium-Service?
Is PWE thinking of a Premium-Service for all gamers?
- > I'm thinking reduced "exchange"-rates for a monthly payment and some other stuff like VIP items or special titles for those gamers.
I hope I spoke for a lot of European gamers. So let's see and wait for answers. b:bye0 -
Ty PWE, u make a lot of ppl saving their money for more important things than the game, cuze neigher me nor lots of my friends will pay 20% more and we wont support such a greed. Ya, It's greed. And why?
Simple solutions you've not even TRIED:
- make zening for EU-players 20% more cheap. -20% +20% VAT= we dont have to pay more...
- Give us more for our Zen. I guess if u give us a kind of "bonus" we don't have to pay for this.
- Change it back oO. I wrote a ticket and they told me this is not possible. WHY? You changed it, cuz (and I don't know ANYONE who did) "a lot of ppl complained". I ask you again: why? What's the difference between "paying in Dollars" and automatically convert this to euro and paying in Euro directly?!
If this means to do without Phonebilling and such jokes, hell yes, do it!
If u don't find an other solution, RIP PW- again...I WILL NOT PAY A SINGLE CENT IN THSI GAME AGAIN WITH THIS RULES!
btw: ticket spam, guys!0 -
Talayoki - Heavens Tear wrote: »Ty PWE, u make a lot of ppl saving their money for more important things than the game, cuze neigher me nor lots of my friends will pay 20% more and we wont support such a greed. Ya, It's greed. And why?
Simple solutions you've not even TRIED:
- make zening for EU-players 20% more cheap. -20% +20% VAT= we dont have to pay more...
- Give us more for our Zen. I guess if u give us a kind of "bonus" we don't have to pay for this.
- Change it back oO. I wrote a ticket and they told me this is not possible. WHY? You changed it, cuz (and I don't know ANYONE who did) "a lot of ppl complained". I ask you again: why? What's the difference between "paying in Dollars" and automatically convert this to euro and paying in Euro directly?!
If this means to do without Phonebilling and such jokes, hell yes, do it!
If u don't find an other solution, RIP PW- again...I WILL NOT PAY A SINGLE CENT IN THSI GAME AGAIN WITH THIS RULES!
btw: ticket spam, guys!
tl;dr
So uhmm.
Why do you deserve a discount for being in the UK, when I don't for being in Australia?
Stupid people say stupid things.
Validate your arguement, the game is free-to-play. You either spend money on it or you don't, ignore prices.
It's that simple, you do or you don't.0 -
Cuz its simply unfair, that we have to pay more than US/ before without getting more!
I don't spent THAT much in the game but sometimes I feel like: hey, let's buy this. PW is my hobby and hobbies costs money, it's my opinion and don't have to be yours.
BTW:
I bet US ppl etc would do the same: attache blame. And that's what I do, nothing else.
Yes, it's my decision to spent money or not. And if u read again what I said: I don't do this anymore. Anyhow it's not fair. Do u have to pay more than before? If so, you have also the right to complain about, give us and them your suggestions and don't complain about mine- if not, be happy and smile....
btw I'm german and not in the UK0 -
All I seem to read is all the US players tell us EU players to stop QQ'ing about it basically. Clearly, if you were charged 20% more you would be moaning like little fat kids who havent gotten enough cake yet. So before you start telling us to suck it up, look at it from OUR point, and then tell us why we shouldnt QQ b:shutup0
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i totally agree with morigan!
all european cashopers dont treated fair from pwe and thats a fact....
all europeans have too pair not a bit more as claimed from many ppl here, but ALOT more!
25% more for the same pixels are not a bit its ALOT pwe...0 -
VAT is YOUR tax, not the USA's. You're crying about paying the tax you are supposed to be and BEEN paying. The USA did not put a VAT on you, your own countries did.0
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VAT is YOUR tax, not the USA's. You're crying about paying the tax you are supposed to be and BEEN paying. The USA did not put a VAT on you, your own countries did.
do americans pay VAT on the Service from PWE?
and as i already wrote in another post before... a lot of european gamers may see ZEN as an currency .. which is also the definition of PWE ...
and the VAT you all talking about only exist for software and other online things which can be stored on the own computer .. so we never ever got that money on our computers .. its always stored by PWE .. we pay. we get ZEN on our account (which is stored on the pwe
servers) and we buy item on our account.
and now for all who can read clearly:
" 4. Propreitary Rights
PWE is the owner of the Website, the Games, the Software and the Service, which are protected by US and international law including copyright laws. All rights and title in and to the Website, the Game, the Software and the Service, all features and content thereof (including without limitation any user accounts, ... , "applets", chat transcripts, character profile information, game play, and recordings ) and the selection and arrangement thereof (collectively the "Proprietary Materials") are the proprietary property of PWE or its licensors and are protected by U.S. and international copyright and other proprietary rights laws. ... "
http://www.perfectworld.com/about/terms
I hope some more people will read the Terms of Service and the Privacy Policy.
I'm sorry PWE but i wont charge or better "exchange" money for ZEN anymore. If you really wanna get money you should continue paying the VAT for us Europeans because you are the owners as you say. I guess you'll get more money with that solution then with getting nothing at all. b:victory0 -
frankieraye wrote: »*Copied from Shnuggles' posts here and here*
Prior to the change, Perfect World Entertainment was paying the VAT taxes for all of our European players and when this law was passed, we explained to the European officials that our company was paying this additional fee for our users so that they can continue to pay in United States Dollars and we were informed that we were no longer allowed to do so. That information came straight from the people in charge of these new regulations for Europe. Perfect World Entertainment was then forced to abide by these new regulations and we were forced to make the change you now see.
PWI was paying for VAT and frankie clearly says here that they tried to continue this process but are no longer allowed to. Talk to your European officials if you don't want to pay VAT yourself.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sig made by Dorset b:victoryb:thanks0 -
WangZi - Dreamweaver wrote: »PWI was paying for VAT and frankie clearly says here that they tried to continue this process but are no longer allowed to. Talk to your European officials if you don't want to pay VAT yourself.
WangZi the problem lies not within that i pay now 180 Euro instead of 135-150 euro regarding to the exchange ratio between usd and eur. The problem is we get the same Zen for it. The EU dosnt tax the zen they dont care about the exchange ratio at all they just charge tax on the real life monney spend. So its easy for pwi to compensate us by giving us a better exchange ratio and more zen for our monney. Regarding to them they paid our VAT until now , they dont have to anymore they make more monney allready.
So where is the problem they not give us more zen ? And here comes the Greed Argument, they dont want to.I hate Room 380 -
Manostra - Harshlands wrote: »WangZi the problem lies not within that i pay now 180 Euro instead of 135-150 euro regarding to the exchange ratio between usd and eur. The problem is we get the same Zen for it. The EU dosnt tax the zen they dont care about the exchange ratio at all they just charge tax on the real life monney spend. So its easy for pwi to compensate us by giving us a better exchange ratio and more zen for our monney. Regarding to them they paid our VAT until now , they dont have to anymore they make more monney allready.
So where is the problem they not give us more zen ? And here comes the Greed Argument, they dont want to.
this.
I am really surprised how many of these non EU players don't understand that XD. We are just asking PWE to balance the amount of zen we, EU players charge with the amount of money we pay for it now in order to get similar amount of zen the US players would get if they charged the same amount of money. Simply put, why not replace the current amounts of zen with bigger ones for us EU players? Since it does change the currency depending on the area it is possible to change the amounts as well.
That being said, i didnt charge zen for a long time now
But was considering to start charging again. However with the prices the way they are, there is no way i will be XD. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I didn't read all the posts so maybe this has already been said:
PWE doesn't have to do anything, is naive to ask for a zen ratio adjustment just because is unfair.
All of you EU players must to put this event on a profit perspective:
If EU players continues charging zen, PWE is not gonna make any change at all.
But, if the zen charging stops or goes really down, you might have a chance for a fix, and this is probly the only way to get it.
EU players learn this:
Boycott
Just my opinion b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ahh well no more money from meh0
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why shoud you get additional zen to compensate fore what is clearly YOUR taxs due? that is idiotic, you owe it.0
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Well as I see it, I either get a fair exchange between my euro and usa dollar or I don't charge. PWI covered those fees before, fine, nice of them. But if you can't avoid them, at least balance it out so we still get the same amount of zhen for our cash.
I'm usually not a person but to rage bout cs stuff at all but a lot of my european friends agree with me. Either pwe balances it out again and we get the same zhen for euro or we just don't charge. I don't see why I should suddenly pay 20% more, sorry.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Licensed tail brusher of ƙɑƙʊɱɑʊ ~ only the fluffiest
Outrunning centaurs since 2012~0 -
Just throwing something out there. It's been repeated many times (by staff) that the forum readers represent only a small percentage of the actual player base, two (well kinda 3) questions come to mind:
1. Why was this change not announced (in the forum) until someone said something about it?
1b. Why was this thread created and stickied only after Shuggle made multiple responses in the thread linked above?
2. Why is there no announcement on the News page regarding the change in currency since it affects the gameplay for many of the players?
3. Did PWI made the change quietly and hope that the (casual and hardcore) CS'ers would not notice the change and still continue to charge until they notice? That's a slimy tactic if you ask me...0 -
planned to spend money to get r9 for my sin... but 18-20% increased fees make it not happending. i stick with pure farming instead... i got r9 bm that i gladly spended sh1tload off cash on... this is a wakeup call pwi... many like me gonna end charging till u fix this. at least give us more zen for euros.0
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Fulcanelli - Raging Tide wrote: »I didn't read all the posts so maybe this has already been said:
PWE doesn't have to do anything, is naive to ask for a zen ratio adjustment just because is unfair.
All of you EU players must to put this event on a profit perspective:
If EU players continues charging zen, PWE is not gonna make any change at all.
But, if the zen charging stops or goes really down, you might have a chance for a fix, and this is probly the only way to get it.
EU players learn this:
Boycott
Just my opinion b:surrender
Good Point, quite a lot of UK players in my faction are b:angry and will not be buying any more gold, Boycott is a good idea.0 -
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/forms-rates/rates/goods-services.htm
Rates of VAT on different goods and services
If you're registered for VAT and you make VAT taxable supplies you'll have to charge VAT on them. Normally you charge VAT at the standard rate, unless the goods or services you are selling, and the circumstances in which you're selling them, mean you are allowed to charge a different rate.
There are different rates of VAT, depending on the type of goods or services your business provides. At the moment there are three different rates. They are:
standard rate - 20 per cent
reduced rate - 5 per cent
zero rate - 0 per cent
There are also some goods and services that are:
exempt - so no VAT is charged on them
outside the scope of the UK VAT system altogether
This guide lists certain goods and services that are reduced-rated, zero-rated, exempt or outside the scope of VAT. It's not a complete list and there may be conditions that must be met before a reduced rate can apply or before it can be accepted as exempt or outside the scope of VAT. Please see the 'More information' sections for further details.
ok read the site link above but online services below
If you charge customers for delivery it affects the VAT you must charge - they dont deliver0 -
SoulPlay - Heavens Tear wrote: »http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/forms-rates/rates/goods-services.htm
...
If you charge customers for delivery it affects the VAT you must charge - they dont deliver
thats what i wanted to say in post #135
VAT only must be paid when the customer gets something on the PC... that includes software, mediafiles like mp3, textdocuments etc. ... but we get nothing on our own PC .. instead they safe our exchanged ZEN on the servers (which isnt our own PC)
and for some people please take note that PWE is the company and PWI is the game ... -.-0 -
Before i came back to PWI i was playing another MMORPG international version housed and run in USA. This same thing happened to them obviously with the new VAT laws.
The difference is, they didnt wait around to see if their profits changed or anything like that. they instantly changed the euro to "zen" ratio so it was balanced in the same ratio as usd to "zen"..... exactly what people here are asking for.
at the end of the day, people are mentioning boycott and stuff like that. its a fair point but i believe as it stands right now, prob atleast half of the european CShoppers have stopped paying. the other half are either too rich, or too addicted to care.
But even with a 50% drop in money from europe im sure PWE will change to the same system of a change is zen rates. it pushes more gold and money into the game, but also pushes more cash into their pockets.0 -
i dont think its just 50% of all european .. i guess its around 80% .. and btw u can easy calculate how much money they got and what they get now ..
example:
imagine germany with 50000 real players (not accounts) .. 20% of them charge money .. thats 10000 chargers .. they charge around 100 US$ per month thats 1 Million US$ .. and now cut 80% of that money .. wow thats 800.000 US$ per month they lose ... so just 200.000 US$ they get from germany ... now take whole europe .. just think about it
This is PWE
b:chuckle0 -
frankieraye wrote: »*Copied from Shnuggles' posts here and here*
Further Clarification Below:
There was a law passed in Europe earlier this year that placed regulations for all businesses that have operations within the European Union that has forced this change. Companies were given a certain amount of time to comply to these new regulations and that time is now.
Prior to the change, Perfect World Entertainment was paying the VAT taxes for all of our European players and when this law was passed, we explained to the European officials that our company was paying this additional fee for our users so that they can continue to pay in United States Dollars and we were informed that we were no longer allowed to do so. That information came straight from the people in charge of these new regulations for Europe. Perfect World Entertainment was then forced to abide by these new regulations and we were forced to make the change you now see.
If you are playing from Europe, you are no longer allowed to pay in United States Dollars which is why you no longer see that option. This has absolutely nothing to do with greed or wanting more money or any other negative connotation that has been thrown out there in regards to the change. We as a company are simply complying to the new laws put in place in order for our company to continue operations in you local region. Had we not complied to these new regulations, we would have to just pull out of operations in those areas and no longer provide service to those regions.
Not so (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/foreign-currency.htm)HM Revenue & Customs wrote:Foreign currency transactions and VAT
You can buy and sell in any currency, but when you keep your VAT accounts, amounts in foreign currencies must be converted into sterling. Invoices must always show sterling figures for the net totals and VAT for each VAT rate, even if they also show foreign currency figures.
There are two standard ways you carry out the conversion to sterling. However, you may apply to use a different method if you would prefer. This guide explains what the different methods are and how you should carry out conversions.
If you are using the Tour Operators' Margin Scheme (TOMS), the conversion process is slightly different.
On this page:
Purchasing in foreign currencies
Invoicing in foreign currencies
How you convert foreign currency transactions into sterling
The TOMS
Purchasing in foreign currencies
You can use whatever currency you want when you buy goods and services. However, any purchases or sales that were not made in sterling must be converted into sterling for VAT purposes.
You must carry out this conversion when you record the transaction in your VAT accounts, so that your VAT accounts show the transaction in sterling.
See the section in this guide on how to convert foreign currency transactions into sterling.
As you see you can DO the transaction in any currency you like ... it's just the ACCOUNTING for the transaction that needs to be done in the currency that your VAT return is done in (i.e. Sterling in the case of the UK, Euros in the case of the Euro zone etc).0 -
Dear Frankye,
ty very much for the tax fees ingrow.
I was a supporter of this game and in 4 years of PW i think i have
donate more than 2k USD for this game.
Now with this incredible greedy act from your company i will stop to charge Zhen.
No more income from me, if PW dont stepback to previous condition,
or at least if PW give to my chargethe same value i get with the current exchange
Euro <-> USD.
Is it clear? b:angry
Fun0
![http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb454/soulplay2/siggy.png[/SIGPIC]](http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb454/soulplay2/siggy.png[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
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