Countries with VAT fees - Change in ZEN Charge Policy
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1st europe (brussels) adds vat for countries to collect
2nd company pays the vat to europe (brussels)
3rd europe (brussels) has no jurisdiction in usa and CAN NOT legally ask them to pay it
4th it ONLY applys to goods that you will OWN (PWE owns purchases with zen not the player)
i think by the freedom of information act law allows you to demand a full answer or to see some proof just to settle peoples minds
on the otherhand i dont care i dont charge0 -
VAT for my country is 20% (netherlands)
You charged me 32% VAT, wich is theft into my eyes.
I have not found a euopean country that ask for 30% VAT.0 -
sooo when i get it right,
this regulation taking now (or few months ago already?) effect is an EU regulation and applies to all memberstates of the European Union, not only Eurozone countries (states that are part of the currency union having the Euro).
The vat is an indirect tax on consumption, common in every european state, although has different % values among the countries. you, the player buy the virtuel product zen and consumes it at the place where you are playing, in your country of residence.
before the regulation imported virtual services or goods were not taxed by your (european) country, although they were always ment to be taxed.
an indirect tax on consumption in the USA does not exist where a taxation would have been occured if there would be one.
that means it basically fixes an inconsistency of the taxation system.
someone posted here that the price increase is around 18% what is about the EU average vat.
PWI now hands over the tax 1:1 to the customer.
since not only the one who pays the tax carries the full burden of it i ask me who looses most. which depends on the elasticities of supply and demand....eehr ...lol nvm
but the whole story is kind of legit.
the reason for the currency change, to charge now in euros from europeans, is probably because its easier to get the transactions with all involved states done.
if that is correct dear pwi, why not saying so?0 -
PooRitan - Sanctuary wrote: »The vat is an indirect tax on consumption, common in every european state, although has different % values among the countries. you, the player buy the virtuel product zen and consumes it at the place where you are playing, in your country of residence.
yes and no .. just imagine a gamer who travel trough the whole world .. @.@ i confuse myself with that fact because u can charge zen nearly everywhere in the world and the vat depends on the place where u charge zen and not consume .. the currentcy zen is always stored on the pwe servers and pwe also said that the user accounts are owned by them .. thats why u arent allowed to sell your account .. so we neither own the zen .. in that fact we only pay pwe for a service .. to exchange our Euros or Dollars into Zen and store it for us..
what i want to know is where can i find the official article or paragraph of that law .. or do i really have to ask a lawyer about that?
pls Frankie tell us whats true b:cry0 -
so, i havent read all the pages till here but heres my question:
im from Portugal (that little contry by spain xD) and i used to buy Zen trough PaySafe Card method, i buy a 10 euros paysafe and then buy zen, and 10 dollars were like 7.something, so there is a 2.something difference in the price..
whats the point of this increase? Any tax?0 -
It's simple, I will not buy gold now... It wasn't cheap but now I must pay around 30% more.
http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/rjo0701l.jpg0 -
OK This is RUBBISH...
NO wonder the world is in a credit crunch.... and untill they sort out stupid ideas like this it will continue to be. The ultimate result well....
1. IM NOT IN A EURO ZONE AND DO NOT WISH TO BE...
2. I used to charge 32. Pounds its now 40 Pounds..
Dont think ill charge again...
So the CYCLE begins again another problem...0 -
SmellsFishy - Dreamweaver wrote: »Just throwing something out there. It's been repeated many times (by staff) that the forum readers represent only a small percentage of the actual player base, two (well kinda 3) questions come to mind:
1. Why was this change not announced (in the forum) until someone said something about it?
1b. Why was this thread created and stickied only after Shuggle made multiple responses in the thread linked above?
2. Why is there no announcement on the News page regarding the change in currency since it affects the gameplay for many of the players?
3. Did PWI made the change quietly and hope that the (casual and hardcore) CS'ers would not notice the change and still continue to charge until they notice? That's a slimy tactic if you ask me...
Unfortunately, we cannot give you exact details to all of your questions listed here, however, do know that this was never planned to be a "stealth change" and yes, we were always planning to inform the community as soon as we could. The change was entered prior to many of our staff having been informed that the change was already done thus causing a delay because we needed to be 100% sure of what information needed to be put out there and how much we are legally allowed to say due to contractual obligations. Obviously, you can have any opinion you like in this matter but do know that this in no way was going to simply be a change where we expected you all to not notice because there are way too many people in our communities to NOT notice this change. I admit that portions of this were not properly handled and we have already spoken about how to relieve that in the future for any other changes that may need to take place. Thank you for your comments here and I will also be sure to pass this information on to the correct persons so we can try to avoid this down the road.
My personal apologies for any confusion and lack of solid information when the change actually took place. I am simply the messenger b:surrender-Your friendly neighborhood Shnuggs-
[PWE Billing]
Perfect World Entertainment Customer Support System
"Any man worth his salt will stick up for what he believes right, but it takes a slightly better man to acknowledge instantly and without reservation that he is in error."
-Andrew Jackson
Shnuggles [Shh-nugg-ulls]
-proper noun
1. He who turns negativity into giddiness.
2. Has an IRL cat that plays fetch b:victory0 -
Unfortunately, we cannot give you exact details to all of your questions listed here, however, do know that this was never planned to be a "stealth change" and yes, we were always planning to inform the community as soon as we could. The change was entered prior to many of our staff having been informed that the change was already done thus causing a delay because we needed to be 100% sure of what information needed to be put out there and how much we are legally allowed to say due to contractual obligations. Obviously, you can have any opinion you like in this matter but do know that this in no way was going to simply be a change where we expected you all to not notice because there are way too many people in our communities to NOT notice this change. I admit that portions of this were not properly handled and we have already spoken about how to relieve that in the future for any other changes that may need to take place. Thank you for your comments here and I will also be sure to pass this information on to the correct persons so we can try to avoid this down the road.
My personal apologies for any confusion and lack of solid information when the change actually took place. I am simply the messenger b:surrender
b:shocked omg a personal apology b:shocked THE WORLD WILL END SOON! RUN PPL
as soon it has something to do with REAL MONEY look what happens b:nosebleedSome Rules each PWI Gamer should know
1. Dont break this rules & no matter what: DONT TRUST ANYONE!
2. Dont pay wine or heads fee (like to get kicked after that?) b:chuckle
3. Dont borrow items (since when return gms scammed stuff?) b:embarrass
4. Dont use your password in faction-forums (like hacks?) b:fatb
5. Dont give your mats to the tt-banker (obvious, not?) b:beg
6. Dont wait for help, or heals, or any other miracles,... (for more examples just play pwi and you will hate the whole humanity) b:bye0 -
Unfortunately, we cannot give you exact details to all of your questions listed here, however, do know that this was never planned to be a "stealth change" and yes, we were always planning to inform the community as soon as we could. The change was entered prior to many of our staff having been informed that the change was already done thus causing a delay because we needed to be 100% sure of what information needed to be put out there and how much we are legally allowed to say due to contractual obligations. Obviously, you can have any opinion you like in this matter but do know that this in no way was going to simply be a change where we expected you all to not notice because there are way too many people in our communities to NOT notice this change. I admit that portions of this were not properly handled and we have already spoken about how to relieve that in the future for any other changes that may need to take place. Thank you for your comments here and I will also be sure to pass this information on to the correct persons so we can try to avoid this down the road.
My personal apologies for any confusion and lack of solid information when the change actually took place. I am simply the messenger b:surrender
Much appreciated and you've gained my respect for providing such a straightforward answer.0 -
Amencat - Sanctuary wrote: »b:shocked omg a personal apology b:shocked THE WORLD WILL END SOON! RUN PPL
as soon it has something to do with REAL MONEY look what happens b:nosebleed
And this also proofs (for me) that alot of people stopped buying Zen. Soo ppl who are stll buying Zen, wanna have the prices back to what it was? STOP buying Zen!!! WE have the power!0 -
Te Dutch tax law (and also the European one) says that if I buy something in another country (EU or not) that is worth 22 euros or less, that i don't have to pay any taxes or VAT at all.
This means that the euro price for 3000 zen (or lower) should NOT be charged for VAT.
I say PWE is stealing from us.0 -
obviously people didnt read any relevent posts i posted there are amounts that are legally exempt from the vat etc etc etc why bother ..............0
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SoulPlay - Heavens Tear wrote: »obviously people didnt read any relevent posts i posted there are amounts that are legally exempt from the vat etc etc etc why bother ..............
Correct, nobody reads your posts. Maybe if you start using some basic punctuation?0 -
LadyDagger - Momaganon wrote: »Correct, nobody reads your posts. Maybe if you start using some basic punctuation?
what like this fail attempt ? do you have breathing problems.0 -
SoulPlay - Heavens Tear wrote: »what like this fail attempt ? do you have breathing problems.
Nope, do you?0 -
LadyDagger - Momaganon wrote: »Nope, do you?
commas are used to break down long sentences or for a change of subject, you have one sentence there with one pointlessly used.
OR replaces a comma as you naturally take a break.
fail troll0 -
SoulPlay - Heavens Tear wrote: »commas are used to break down long sentences or for a change of subject, you have one sentence there with one pointlessly used.
OR replaces a comma as you naturally take a break when listing.
fail troll
bla bla bla0 -
LadyDagger - Momaganon wrote: »bla bla bla
Take your own advice you muppet, go and enroll at your local college !!0 -
SoulPlay - Heavens Tear wrote: »Take your own advice you muppet, go and enroll at your local college !!
Well I see my remark about your punctuation had effect. Thank you.0 -
LadyDagger - Momaganon wrote: »Well I see my remark about your punctuation had effect. Thank you.
its a MMO the least important thing is punctuation, you tried to get a rise out of me instead u got verbally rolled.0 -
Can you take out trolling to another topic?
I will not charge till pwe make some decisions about price balancing. Hungarian tax is 25%, what i paid without problem, but the increased amount is too high for me (5~7%). Every country has their own tax fee, try to not balance this way, because this changes in every country, not standardized in fix percent like 30%.
References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_of_Europe
http://www.tmf-vat.com/vat/eu-vat-rates.html
From tmf-vat,com:Sellers are held liable by national tax authorities for the correct calculation, reporting and payment of VAT in each territory.0 -
back to the basics:
United States of America = U.S Dollar currency
European Union = Euro currency
Perfect World Entertainement = Zen (virtual) currency
1 Euro = 1.3735 U.S. Dollars (price from 2011-10-13)
pwe charging american players 10 us dollars for 1000 zen.
pwe charging european players 9 euro for 1000 zen.
9 Euro = 12,36 us dollars.
so actually with a stealth and no communicatd at all change pwe is trying too sell its virtual currency called zen, to a preety much higher price to ALL European players. isnt this a discrimination?
in my opinion if PWE had at least a small trace of business ethic, they would adjust theyr virtual currency and sell to all us Europeans to an equal price as they do for americans.
Fair would be if PWE gave to all European players 1236 Zen for every 9 Euro we charge and not 1000 Zen as they do now, or even 1373 Zen for every 10 Euro we charge.
If this would be the case, none would make claims about taxes and non would had a reason to make all this posts here.
Without any adjustment taken by now, without any official announcement given and without concrete answers to all related questions, PWE giving signs that they actually wanted to stealth pass this changes without any of us even know, but the time we go to charge.
under this circumstances i call ALL European players to stop charge theyr virtual currency called Zen, cause they are trying to sell theyr currency to all of us at a very high exchange rate.
Personally i stop charge theyr virtual currency until they make one of the adjustments shown here. if PWE doesnt take any adjustment at all, i consider that the best solution is to quit playing all of theyr games, cause after all who wants to support a company that discriminating players the way the do right now.
last but not least, i consider my self European no matter from which country i play and i know we Europeans acting all together as one, are strong. So stop charge Zen and spread the word throughout all internet.
b:bye0 -
back to the basics:
United States of America = U.S Dollar currency
European Union = Euro currency
Perfect World Entertainement = Zen (virtual) currency
1 Euro = 1.3735 U.S. Dollars (price from 2011-10-13)
pwe charging american players 10 us dollars for 1000 zen.
pwe charging european players 9 euro for 1000 zen.
9 Euro = 12,36 us dollars.
so actually with a stealth and no communicatd at all change pwe is trying too sell its virtual currency called zen, to a preety much higher price to ALL European players. isnt this a discrimination?
in my opinion if PWE had at least a small trace of business ethic, they would adjust theyr virtual currency and sell to all us Europeans to an equal price as they do for americans.
Fair would be if PWE gave to all European players 1236 Zen for every 9 Euro we charge and not 1000 Zen as they do now, or even 1373 Zen for every 10 Euro we charge.
If this would be the case, none would make claims about taxes and non would had a reason to make all this posts here.
Without any adjustment taken by now, without any official announcement given and without concrete answers to all related questions, PWE giving signs that they actually wanted to stealth pass this changes without any of us even know, but the time we go to charge.
under this circumstances i call ALL European players to stop charge theyr virtual currency called Zen, cause they are trying to sell theyr currency to all of us at a very high exchange rate.
Personally i stop charge theyr virtual currency until they make one of the adjustments shown here. if PWE doesnt take any adjustment at all, i consider that the best solution is to quit playing all of theyr games, cause after all who wants to support a company that discriminating players the way the do right now.
last but not least, i consider my self European no matter from which country i play and i know we Europeans acting all together as one, are strong. So stop charge Zen and spread the word throughout all internet.
b:bye
freedom of information act will make sure pwe shows their hand
no ?0 -
frankieraye wrote: »
Prior to the change, Perfect World Entertainment was paying the VAT taxes for all of our European players and when this law was passed, we explained to the European officials that our company was paying this additional fee for our users so that they can continue to pay in United States Dollars and we were informed that we were no longer allowed to do so. That information came straight from the people in charge of these new regulations for Europe. Perfect World Entertainment was then forced to abide by these new regulations and we were forced to make the change you now see.
call me stupid if you like but he's saying that they where paying the VAT taxes and where willing to continue to do so.. if VAT= 20% and they where willing to pay that but wheren't allowed why not cut the prices for europeans by a certain amount to compensate for the VAT taxes, they will comply with the new regulations and keep there community happy cuz no one pays more then they did before.
them paying the VAT or Giving the Discount won't make a difference in there earnings but will keep the prices normal..0 -
No. Because the Freedom of Information Act you're referring to applies to documents controlled by the US Government, not random corporations you have a beef with.SoulPlay - Heavens Tear wrote: »freedom of information act will make sure pwe shows their hand
no ?
P.S. Commas are not used "for a change of subject." That's what periods and paragraphs are for.
P.P.S. On the Internet people can only judge you by what they see. Poor grammar, spelling, capitalization, and punctuation are the typographical equivalent to looking like an unkempt hobo.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Visit the PWI wiki for the useful information. Stay at the PWI wiki for the pie. ;-)0 -
PWI i'm going to vote with my money and charge no more gold simply because I'm losing on the exchange rate i lost 7 gold on a small purchase , and also as i live in UK and we don't use the Euro why should we in GB pay VAT to Europe. i'm being charged from what i normally get more for less, i'm not having it, i'm sure there are thousands more that are not having it , not that you care anyway i thought ill have my say0
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you still do not get the fact it is YOUR tax due, not PWI/PWE. it was paid for you for 1-1/2 years and not allowed any more. you WERE compensated for the past 1-1/2 years so quit crying and pay your tax.0
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you still do not get the fact it is YOUR tax due, not PWI/PWE. it was paid for you for 1-1/2 years and not allowed any more. you WERE compensated for the past 1-1/2 years so quit crying and pay your tax.
Sigh,
people are NOT crying about the fact they now need to pay the tax.
They are crying because the current price increase goes BEYOND the additional tax fee.Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder b:chuckle0 -
It's funny how euro's have to pay more then the normal rate and gm's and gm asskissers blame the european government.
Just because europe has VAT taxes now, doesn't mean customers have to pay them. As far as i know, PWE is doing business in europe by offering the service to european players. If PWE doesn't want to pay VAT taxes, then don't do business in europe anymore. But don't just throw it on the euro player, and hide behind a european rule.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
playing Faction Wars Again.0
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