What are new clerics doing that is annoying all the old players?

thumbs wrote: »

Bring less than L11 revive to a high aps Nirvana. - It's a Lv. 89 book ffs!

If someone says that to me, I can proudly tell them to kiss my tiny a$$
I even rarely res in nirvana.....like never, call me fail, idc, tank's squishy a$$ is more important than your dead a$$. (unless boss is dead and you're still kissing the floor)
Oh and, my first nirvana run and it was with aps squad, rule number 1(according to them): clerics don't res in nirvana

Stand outside of melee range in Nirvana. (cause bosses to move, interrupt permaspark, etc)
Better safe than sorry, 2 seconds to chase a boss won't make your life harder

My replies in red

Given the tweakz vs. everyone else dialogue again, this sure mimics the veno forum.

thumbs wrote: »

I can't find reason to use Stream of Rejuvenation for sage.





400 MP vs 1000
2 second ch/cast vs 3.5
S.Ironheart learned at 89, S.SoR at 99


***
Wizard in Sage Dragon's Breath: Heal the melee classes that are 1-1 dd'ing w/ bloodpaint and ignore wiz.

I've seen the chromatic spammer. b:sad

Heal the tank in FF instead of Elemental, and Dimensional Seals or Sage magic shell for the mages when the tank is a pleveler with BP and well rounded buffs.

Half way into FF heal a puller before they secure aggro, then go to town (back to start) and ask for help with the mobs they allowed the squad to rush through.

Bring less than L11 revive to a high aps Nirvana. - It's a Lv. 89 book ffs!

Stand outside of melee range in Nirvana. (cause bosses to move, interrupt permaspark, etc)

Melee class HP's to mob, erupts, cleric hits mob first from range.

Cleric sets BB nice and tight to mobs where someone is supposed to lure (common in 79, and warsong metal).

Cleric heals puller while in luring position.

I'm a hyper plevled nub btw. Don't think experience playing cleric is as necessary as just common sense or knowledge of the game mechanics.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not... I honestly can't, I hope you are, but I'm just not sure... It's bad to bring less than level 11 res? Cuz it's an 89 book? Dude it's 20 mil, to save SOMEONE ELSE'S exp rofl. Want your exp so bad? Bring a GA, pay for it yourself fa.ggot. Stand outside melee range in nirv? Umm why would I get charm ticked 100+ times throughout a nirv run when I can just move 5 feet to the left and avoid losing that much charm? Ignore wiz in DB? Never ignore wiz, unless you want that wizzie to die, they teh squishiest of em all! b:shocked

Don't heal tank, but instead debuff and mag shell? Umm why not do both? I Healed and debuffed in the FC's I ran on my cleric.

I believe you when you say you're a powerleveller, because you sir, are absolutely fuucking trash at being a cleric.

If people are dying in the first place, something is very wrong, cleric or no cleric. Who the hell brings a cleric to a PVE instance specifically for lvl 11 revive? Oh right, tweakz. The only reason to bring a cleric is when people are too squishy to survive without heals. That's like 90-something percent of Nirvana squads.

Some bosses in Nirvana a cleric should have distance on. Some of them offhand are: Ashura Tyrant, Arbiter, Goldwing Phoenix, some of these for very obvious reasons. However, I love reading tweakz get up on his soapbox and make suggestions like he knows what he's talking about. Strange how he gets the same responses in every subforum he posts in. When in doubt, go the other direction from tweakz's advice.

thumbs wrote: »

Heal the tank in FF instead of Elemental, and Dimensional Seals or Sage magic shell for the mages when the tank is a pleveler with BP and well rounded buffs.

Yeah i always wondered that to, why the hell would clerics spam heal a fully buffed 5.0 with BP in FCC on bosses <.< Its about as useful as trying to heal an NPC and wondering why their hp isn't moving.

Half way into FF heal a puller before they secure aggro, then go to town (back to start) and ask for help with the mobs they allowed the squad to rush through.

I rarely see this, most cleric do know how heal aggro works. But clerics that cant keep themselves alive and has to walk all the way back from Snowy Village + needs help clear mobs to get back is waste of party space

Bring less than L11 revive to a high aps Nirvana. - It's a Lv. 89 book ffs!

LOL **** that. I do have lvl 11 ress on my cleric since i use it to ress my own/friends chars. But i would not care if another cleric only had level 10. Why would they pay 20-30 mil to ress others? If someone dies in NV they either suck or have a major lagspike, in any case they should be happy with any form of ress

Stand outside of melee range in Nirvana. (cause bosses to move, interrupt permaspark, etc)

THIS IS BY FAR THE MOST ANNOYING THING EVER. Its like autokick from party. I see so called "experienced" clerics do this all the time and it makes me rage. If you cant take 1-3 hits from a boss you shouldn't even be in NV to begin with! Bosses will always random aggro the cleric and standing outside of mele range wont save you it will only mess up the permasparks and the amps/debuffs and everyone will hate you.

Melee class HP's to mob, erupts, cleric hits mob first from range.

All ranged classes do this and yeah its annoying for the BMs/Sins. But i think Archers are way more guilty to this offense than clerics

Cleric sets BB nice and tight to mobs where someone is supposed to lure (common in 79, and warsong metal).

And after placing BB at that shietty location they go afk...Bring the mobs and let them die imo

I'm a hyper plevled nub btw. Don't think experience playing cleric is as necessary as just common sense or knowledge of the game mechanics.

If you already know the game and most instances from playing other classes than yes you can make a hyper nub cleric and be x10 better than most people. Its only a matter of finding the right skill icons lol

Replies in green.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I agree with this except its not "Good clerics can look at the situation" but rather "Good clerics can see the situation coming." That's why we can watch our hp, the squads hp, and the tanks hp. Because we learn to predict and read the situation and what's going to happen next.

My pet peeves of the new generation:

Healing with SoR instead of IH. IH has a better stack so if you plan on DDing, give me it, not SoR pls. Other thing I see are the clerics that heal once every 15 seconds with the one big SoR heal.

Chromatic spammers. They stand in one spot and (macro?) chromatic. No debuffs, no purifies, just chromatic. Prolly have themselves targetted, too. If I can tank fine with a chromatic every 7 seconds and no stack, I could prolly also tank fine with no cleric and get more of the split *kick*.

Not debuffing. Seriously, with paint the cleric is sometimes not even needed other than for buffs. So throw an IH on me and then spend the next 13 seconds doing something more useful than stacking me when paint does 100% of the healing.

Vit build instead of gear/refines. I keep seeing these clerics with 6 or 7k hp at level 100 and I think decent gear and decent refines. Then I look and its TT90 if I'm lucky, tt70 and 80 half the time. Then I look at their mana and see 7.5k mp. Rather than improving gear they just stat for vitality, then have the worlds weakest heals and wonder why people die/squad wipe.

I have to disagree with you about some facts.
Healing with SoR becomes very useful in endgame instances, especially if agro is like ping-pong. Stacking with IH wont help much if someone gets agro and is already at 50% HP. If i use SoR, i give these people **** loads of HP, also add little stack and since its demon version, also pdef buff bonus, which makes them take less damage, then just use IH. Its especially good for LA armor, because 5 APS sin tanks everything (if any in squad). As long as you stay alive, leave it on clerics, it doesnt matter, what keeps you alive.
You are right about chromatic heal. This skill has no much use, basically only on bosses with aoe which cancells BB (i use it against demonic dictator for example).
If cleric should debuff, it depends on squad. If Barb/veno already there, they shouldnt do it. Plus, only lvl11 dimensional seal is worthy of using, they are kinda useless otherwise.
About VIT build, i cant agree with you. Its the way for clerics who dont wanna spend penny on this game and cant farm endgame gear. Even VIT clerics with maxed heals can keep you alive against everything and they are not oneshot/2shot to everything. Actually, i hate MAG clerics with **** gear, yea, they do better damage, they have maybe little stronger heals, but also die on every boss with some serious Aoe or even mobs. Im MAG/VIT hybrid with 7,3k hp buffed and im able to solo-heal every instance (lvl11 IH, SoR). If u die with VIT clerics, its not fault of their build b:cute

New clerics shouldn't care if they annoy old players, you should play the way you want

i mean you can follow the cookie cutter mold but you might as well learn for your self

(upping stomp of the best king on my barb comes to mind after i was told not to)

i am sure there is the "best way" but you also should do it any way you want.


Freedom ... some don't have it at home. .. . some don't have it were they reside... if they are lucky enough to play let them enjoy it in game

ROFL

Well this thread is very long so i couldn't read everything, but from what i read i almost fell of my chair. OMG! (still laughing).... Anyway u guys spend so much time talking about problems of those fail clerics, forgetting that they will never visit forum, even if they do, they'll never visit Cleric forum..... And lets say that EVEN if they do visit it, u think they'll search for their mistakes? NO! They will post threads about ppl yelling at them in instances b:laugh b:laugh

Yeah i had a lot of fail instances with my alts (psy, sin, veno, wiz (BHs29-59)), because of clerics who are 95% of the time AFK, or spaming CHB, BotP, not buffing, etc.

What to do in that situation? Ask for lead, play God, kick fail cleric in the ***. OR if cleric has lead, just leave and find squad with better cleric. Few of those runs will add u some nice clerics on the FL, then no need for random cleric squads.

Hehe good luck!

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

If someone is at 50% hp before you can get an IH on them than they'll be dead before you can take the 3.5 seconds to cast SoR. In that time you can almost cast both a Wellspring and an IH and the IH has a better stack than SoR. Granted the SoR pdef bump is nice its use as a heal is almost none. I don't have a great weapon but my Wellspring heals 4-6k hp which is enough to get an IH stack started.

It depends on that person. If he is squishy / then yes, i use wellspring + IH to save them, but i prefer to use SoR when its possible, it depends on hp of person im healing. Moreover, if u compare 3.5 sec of SoR and 2.5 sec of WS and ammount of hp they recover, choice is clear. Effect of demon SoR can be useful, if u use it on LA, less damage is less damage.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I hope that hp is with +5 refines... Personally, I'm pure magic and have never had much problem surviving all the bosses and make sure I can take at least a few hits from the boss if I'm randomed. There really is no reason to add to vit unless you pvp. I see you are on a pvp server, so maybe thats why. And I wouldn't say it saves you any money because you should be covering yourself with more refines on your weapon. And neither build "requires" you to spend money on the game.

Wondering if the people choosing to use SoR for a "big huge heal" use it because they're vitality builds that don't have enough magic attack for things like IH and Wellspring to be enough of a big huge heal.

It is important for both pure clerics, and vit clerics to focus on their gear though. A pure cleric needs to have pdef and refines on their gear. A Vit cleric needs to have higher refines to compensate on their weapon.

I also play a barb, bm, and sin; All tanking classes. I have a really hard time not being a grinch to vit clerics, especially if I see they don't have a weapon to cover their low heals. They're kind of like portable buffs, then half a cleric imo. Anyways, I don't want to disclude them for their choice in builds but 99% of the time I'd much more prefer paint for heals, or even a mystic to do the healing job. Trust me. Barbs notice. And really the difference is just having to use alot of pots to cover what the cleric can't do that a good cleric can.

I was talking about pure MAG clerics with bad gear. I assume this is not your case. And yes, i have added VIT because of PvP and TWs also, since cleric role is stay alive as long as possible. Gear has +5/+6 refines, i still need to work on hp, thats true.
And no, i dont use SoR because its a huge heal. Decision, if i use "wellspring and IH" or SoR depends on situation, as i mentioned already.
VIT clerics still can have powerful heals. Like i said, i have no problem to heal anyone at any instance (lvl11 heals and demon version of Spirits Gift help, if needed). Noone ever complained that my heals are weak and im not pure MAG and still use tt90 +5 wheel (wasnt playin druing rep sale, waiting on another).

When I first learned CHB I was really excited about it, and I was using it everytime I was in a squad, even though it wasn't really necessarely to. Though, as I kept leveling my skills I realised how much MP I'm wasting for nothing, and how much better is IH, for example.
CHB is good to use after barb buffs your squad, or if you're dealing with AOE bosses, or your squad is dealing with more mobs in the same time. But, again, Clerics got BB. In my opinion BB is better than CHB, as it doesn't only heal, but also makes party get less damage from the attacker; Now, again, sometimes BB get's intrrerupted and AOE heal is better.
So when CHB is really not needed, I say stack the tank with few IHs.
I barely use Wellspring Surge anymore, maybe only if there's a chance my tank is almost dying because of the lack of heals I was giving to him. I usually -when AOE heal is not necessarely- use IH, and Stream if the Boss/Mob is giving a hard time .

they either spam squad heal too much, or wellspring too much. Ih is there for a reason... also i can't stand clerics that DD if theyre saving their lives its fine.

I am so happy that other people are noticing this. I've been playing my cleric lately more than my other alts, and I run instances and such like how I was taught a year and a half ago by one of my good friends (best cleric ever). When i was leveling my cleric...purify, IH, revive, and squad buffs came first. I paired up with a barb for questing and instances that knew what he was doing (He actually knows to lvl his ream. OMG), cause he is a player since beta.

What bugs me most, is that the new players don't want advice from older players. I don't mind new players messing up, knowing they did it, and fixing it next time. It's the new players that do something wrong, then are like "I know what the *** I'm doing!" when you try to help them out.

It's like me(on my cleric) and my barb friend were running fb39 for one of the faction members. Well the faction member brought one of their cleric friends along who also needed it. So I 1 hour buff when everyone gets there, and the cleric tries to rebuff everyone with his 30 minute buffs...I ask what lvl they are...he replies lvl 1. I wanted to scream. So then this cleric runs ahead and starts DDing and killing himself over and over again. He doesn't want me healing him, and he claims his "full attack" cleric is better than me. If this hadn't of been for a faction member, I would have left squad.

So we get to farren, and I warn the cleric and the faction member that his aoe packs a punch against mag users. The cleric says "I can survive his aoes. I don't need heals," and runs towards the boss to use plume shot. My barb friend realizes what that cleric is doing, and runs out to ream farren and aoe kill the adds. Farren aoes, the cleric dies in one shot. He gets all mad and starts demanding that I res him. "So i res him, but instead of waiting for farren's aoe to pass, he resses right away and farren aoes again, killing him. So then the cleric starts demanding that the barb move farren away so he can res (my barb friend is laughing is *** off at this point cause he thinks its funny how much this cleric fails). So I decided to not res the other cleric til farren is dead.

The rest of the fb keeps going the same way. They cleric DDing when he shouldn't and dying constantly while i keep the rest of the squad healed. He even pulled the large group of exploding mobs onto himself. At the end of the fb, he claims it was me and my friends fault for all his deaths, and calling the cleric class a squishy fail. I try to explain what he did wrong, but he continues to cuss and insult me.

So yeah, the new clerics lately are bugging me, a lot. Especially when they wanna act like a BM instead of the cleric that they are.

Chromatic Healing instead of IH. It's personal choice, understandably, but it also have a shorter range and brings the casting cleric into a lot of enemies' aoe/self-destruct range. Sometimes they die from that, and get pissed...

bluetopaz8 wrote: »

I blame PW for being too greedy and making it so easy for people to pay money to lvl fast.

I don't. W/o the fast leveling; there'd be hardly anyone for me to squad with, and forget about squadding with new classes any time soon. I welcome hypers.

KanaBanana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So. Clerics can DD. Period. But our role in a squad isn't DD'ing, it's healing, unless there's another cleric in squad and he/she is the main healer....and why take aggro if you've a tank? You're squishier than the tank and he/she is there to do his job and so are you. If you're the only cleric, focus on healing and throw a plume shot every now and then if you're confident, but for crying out loud DO NOT STEAL AGGRO.

The point wasn't to just be a DD cleric, or full-attack as I suppose people call them, but to know when to heal and when you attack, which you actually agreed to. She stated that the condition for attacking was that the squad was doing fine, meaning they didn't need constant healing.

As far as taking aggro, it's entirely dependent upon the situation. There are times when the cleric should pull aggro. For example, in my 70s when running BH59, I ended up in a squad of 3 sins, 2 BMs, and me. We went down the water path and the 5 of them went in different directions after different mobs (each with their own speed boost to boot). The 5 mobs aggrod quickly turned into 6, then 7, then 8 with 4 members of the squad seeming trying to stay out of heal range. I stacked the one I could reach twice and Holy Pathed to the others. While en route, the two sins there died and neither BM was doing too well. I gave them each a couple of stacks to stabilize their HP (intentionally pulling heal aggro from the mobs those two hadn't tagged), guessed at how many mobs they could tank without heals for a short period of time and threw down a tempest to pull aggro from the ones they couldn't handle onto myself. The BMs focused on the mobs they could handle and I alternated healing and res'ing the two dead sins. They got up, we finished the group, rebuffed, and continued without a hitch.

Now, I pulled aggro. I was certainly squishy in my 70s. Does that mean I'm a fail cleric? The thing is, clerics can be surprisingly durable despite their lower HP/speed/etc. The important thing is to know what you can deal with and what you can't and act accordingly.