Proving that 5aps isn't broken

jimburns96 · January 2011

tweakz wrote: »

I'm honored that you would create an account just to attack me. b:victory

LOL!! That proved that you are just stupid. Why the ~edited~ would I need to create a ~edited~ account just to attack you? Are you that much of a narcissist? Idiot.

By the way, You do have the glorious distinction of being my 1st reply to a post on any forum. Ooops I said it now your head is gonna pop.

From the replies I read in this forum and others you have more detractors than supporters. HINT: Thay may all be my alts too!!!!! LOLOLOL.

jimburns96 · January 2011

tweakz wrote: »

I'm honored that you would create an account just to attack me. b:victory

You made a baseless accusation of me doing some nefarious scheme to attack you instead of responding to my original point? Hmmmm? Usually those that have no sustanance to their argument try to turn the conversation personal.

Only losers do that however I still am interested in a well thought out response to my points against your entire thesis of why 5 APS isn't broken. I can give you that one last chance to save face. There are hundreds of 4-5 APS toons on each of the 3 servers I play on yet not one 0% channeling veno has ever come foreward. I mean, that is the example you have chosen to 'prove' that the 5 APS and the ability to permaspark scheme is balanced and not broken. I'll be waiting......

Mauntille - Heavens Tear · January 2011

This thread made it to 28 pages? O.o

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Here we go, and I am lagging too... FTL. So venoes are just mages now? Roll a wiz if you wanna be mage... b:bye

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRBLaB53S3Y

Oh. My. God.

Thanks for the laughs.

Roll a bm/sin if you wanna be auto-attack... b:bye

NightRage - Raging Tide · January 2011

LMFAO.

Yulk too pro. Teach me your veno ways.

WnbTank - Archosaur · January 2011

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

First paragraph
1. That was an increased life mob =.=
2. I am still using FB19 weapon.
3. Other classes took me longer.
4. pet underleveled (LVL26), ofc I was healing more often
5. Try doing human form thing with an underleveled pet IJS

Second paragraph
1. getting through chain of fights without HP being touched is definitely OP.
2. spam heal pet? Oh yeah, I make pets kite in FBs so its really simple + easy. While on my barb, he can take one, but too many, he will need to use pots or cleric while the veno does not. BM I can stun lock and use pots, but if stun fails I would be doomed and have to flee, assassin... Not even kiting will cut it, too squishy, archer... I will just flat out die if I bother trying. Wiz... same thing, cleric... same thing... Psy, LOL same thing. Grinding in FBs as veno is a breeze, everyone have to use a zeal to pull while the veno does not.

First paragraph:

1. It still took lot longer than it should have
2. Would you kill faster, you might be able to afford ridiculously cheap wep to improve your dmg, ijs.
3. You suggest you fail worse with other classes?
4. You failed to lvl your pet, more excuses?
5. Done it, what next?

Second paragraph:
1. Mages, archers, etc. are op for killing mobs before they can get close enough to hit too? Only melees got hard time grinding at that low lvl, higher on they get better at it. You wasted closer to 50s in fight that shouldn`t have taken half the time of it.
2. Who the heck farms FBs anymore? Well `cept 99 ones and farming those is reserved to sins who can do it quickly by stealthing mobs and killing only bosses, saving wines too. Pulling is op? Does that mean cleric heals are OP? Every single adventage classes have over each other, is OP? You do understand that zeal pull made venos not needed for anything, right? Sure they got amp etc but now they aren`t absolutely needed to pull, zeal can take care of it if needed. It`s funny how you call the thing that is likely least OP on venos OP, really bro, even you cant seriously be that stupid.

Ps. That bed I guess, should have skipped this post. Trying to tell you anything about facts, it`s like teaching rock to roll over, no matter how hard you try, you will always fail.

Jadsia - Lost City · January 2011

jimburns96 wrote: »

You made a baseless accusation of me doing some nefarious scheme to attack you instead of responding to my original point? Hmmmm? Usually those that have no sustanance to their argument try to turn the conversation personal.

Only losers do that however I still am interested in a well thought out response to my points against your entire thesis of why 5 APS isn't broken. I can give you that one last chance to save face. There are hundreds of 4-5 APS toons on each of the 3 servers I play on yet not one 0% channeling veno has ever come foreward. I mean, that is the example you have chosen to 'prove' that the 5 APS and the ability to permaspark scheme is balanced and not broken. I'll be waiting......

Jim, I wouldn't hold your breath! ROTFL.

Qingzi - Harshlands · January 2011

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

5. Try doing human form thing with an underleveled pet IJS

Does grinding lvl 100 mobs with a lvl 65 veno AND pet count as having an underlvl'd pet?b:thanks

Zenorx - Harshlands · January 2011

Someone ban Yulk plox

Oh wait don't he's waaayyyy to pro at playing a veno to ban! Then he can't teach us how to make our venos OP!

http://www.motifake.com/facepalm-lion-facepalm-demotivational-posters-55153.html

Fleuri - Sanctuary · January 2011

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

First paragraph
1. That was an increased life mob =.=

And, on average, you usually build chi fast enough to use single spark on most if not all increased life monsters. Of course, that will pull aggro off your pet, but you can send your pet to attack it before you spark. I have not tried playing a veno with those scorpions, but a cactus with default skill off might (or might not) do better than the rhino. If you are killing a lot of them you can probably arrange so that the thing dies right before it would be able to hit you.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

4. pet underleveled (LVL26), ofc I was healing more often

Ok... that is understandable... but... you know... snowmen?

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

1. getting through chain of fights without HP being touched is definitely OP.

Unless you play a melee class, you should rarely get hit if you know how to play your class well enough. Increased life monsters are something of an exception, but if you do not mind taking a long time to kill them (and 45 seconds is a long time), you can do that with any class that has a ranged attack.

For example, here is how you could do it on a cleric, without using spark (using spark on a cleric would likely mean you get hit if you are good enough with your cleric to kill a normal scorpion just before it would hit you, this is because spark does not increase the constant damage adds which you would normally be relying on):

From greater than maximum range, use great cyclone on the scorpion.

While great cyclone is channelling, click on the ground so you will run away from the scorpion when your attack finishes.

Once you start moving, hold down your great cyclone key.

Repeat until the scorpion dies.

Now clerics are overpowered, just like venos are.

Here's how to do that on a wizard: replace great cyclone with gush.

Now wizards are overpowered.

etc.

krittycat · January 2011

Quick question....

Is this thread going to ever get back to it's original topic, or are you all having too much fun telling each other that something that they say is wrong?

Answer honestly, please! b:thanks

Martiin - Archosaur · January 2011

KrittyCat wrote: »

Quick question....

Is this thread going to ever get back to it's original topic, or are you all having too much fun telling each other that something that they say is wrong?

Answer honestly, please! b:thanks

I read that and I simply could not resist. The picture below should answer the question nicely b:laugh

http://www.guitarforworship.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Someone-is-Wrong-on-the-Internet.jpg

Yulk_owns - Lost City · January 2011

@ WNB tank

Actually venoes have the edge in APS always, I have killed slower on other toons due to either having to kite more on ranged or taking more hits as melee.

Here are the formulas with LVL21 chars

BM~
1.43 APS with *** concealed claw in 10 seconds rounded with 14 attacks
(156+204)/2 * 14 = 2520

Veno (with no pet)~
1.25 APS with perfect military's sword in 10 seconds rounded as 13 attacks
(144+209)/2 * 13 = 2294.5

Assassin~
1.25 APS with military daggers, same as veno
(199+276)/2 * 13 = 3087.5

Veno

Leaving out archer and barb, low APS = low damage during time..

Now at that level, BM would 95% of the time without the claws, instead he would use military hammer or quest reward dual sword instead, thus nerfing their DPS. They will hit harder, but over time out damaged (normal attack wise). Thus leaving veno and assassin and assassin seems to win.

But wait, there is the veno's pet, Which actually have 1.5 more DPS which makes it like 3445.75 DPS

Not to mention pet's flesh ream. The veno with well fed pet (500 loyalty) will have 0.8 APS which will combine 2.0 each second, (Note: my pet was not well fed either) compared to my glacial walker which killed a lot faster (no flesh ream either)

It will be an exact combined APS of 1.25 + 0.8 = 2.05 APS.

So if you have a fist veno with 4.0 APS, they actually have most likely a pet to help improve their APS, along with a genie AND 0 p.def debuff. Which will outshine every other class in terms of APS.

Imagine your barb gets hit from 2.5 APS venoes while you are debuffed in that state from their base attack in the range of 6kish p.atk.

You are basically hit by 15k in 2 and a half seconds from debuff + APS alone. Does not matter if you heavy cash shop yourself. This is why most venoes are doing it wrong. Sure I took long in that vid, but I just tamed that rhino and played around with it. You should see how I play with my walker, its pure easy. I was lagging + being a lazy player. Anyway, bed time for me b:bye

Laranda - Heavens Tear · January 2011

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

The veno with well fed pet (500 loyalty) will have 0.8 APS

Does not work that way. Pet attack speed is set in stone. Each pet has it's own value, but most are 0.8. Glacial Walker is 0.6 and nothing in this world will change that.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

It will be an exact combined APS of 1.25 + 0.8 = 2.05 APS.

I don't think that's how it works either. The pet's attack and aps is completely disconnected with the veno's. It could be more, it could be less. It won't add up like that.

(You're not far off, but that method does not work.)

So if you have a fist veno with 4.0 APS, they actually have most likely a pet to help improve their APS, along with a genie AND 0 p.def debuff. Which will outshine every other class in terms of APS.

Memory's fuzzy, but as I recall, demon ironwood is only a % chance for that. Fairly small chance too.

Of course the pet can help, but, if there's aoes, the pet may quickly die. No pet healing with fists equipped. :X

Chaos_Hobo - Dreamweaver · January 2011

Why not just find a way to not allow fists in TW. Then all the 5aps people can farm, and it's not really interfering with casters.

Whoever said assasins are a copy of blademasters, please roll one of each. You'll notice a major difference once you get into FC. I wanna meet a non-cashshopping sin that tanks their bh from the beginning. I also wanna meet a lvl 85 sin that can dish out 100k aoe in 6 or so seconds. Heaven's Flame is a sexy skill, and I've never met a sin who can use it. I resent being compared to an Assasin, kthnx bai.

And for anyone who QQs about not having fists in TW, For one spark i've got a pretty decent chance of oneshotting any non-HA char with 6k or less HP. Drakebash+Zerk+Crit=Dead Squishies. And BM's in general have the highest fatality in group pvp. Sure you might be able to take someone out in tw, but then their friend is going to 1-2 shot you.

WhiteVodoo, if thats your main wizard at 52 you have no idea how evil wizards can be. When i see a wizard, I run the other way. If you put in the time and effort ,or cashshop either way is fine, I know a few Endgame wizards who've got higher pdef than me.

In tw, a good cleric is gonna see the fist bm go OMGLOOKATME with that bright red spark, and chromatic seal them. Boom, sparks gone and their easy pickins. Just gotta have good communication so noone wakes em up early. One on one, good clerics are terrifying. You spark, the cleric sleeps you, then the cleric unloads with demon/sage or even lvl 10 tempest *shudders*. But then again, i can't turn invisible. Maybe it'd be different if I were a sin.

5 Aps is definitly overpowered, but increasing caster damage is just going to make things worse. Hitting the broken tv only has a .001% chance of turning it back on. That means chances are, you're just gonna break it more

Look at an assasins skills and tell me they weren't DESIGNED to kill robes. Decent magic defense, stealth to get close without getting blown up, Really hard Damage per hit. A pure dex sin hits as hard per hit as I do with axes.

Assasin is broken, but honestly Aps on a bm isnt a huge deal.Even before 5 aps, BMs could still stunlock. Might take longer to kill you, but 1v1 the outcome is the same. Any decent squad in TW is going to slay the aps bm. Sure he'll take someone out, but you'll get him. If we get the jump on you, axes or fists you're prolly gonna die. If you see us first, you explode us. And before someone flames me about casters having a chance with stunlock, demon drakebash+demon roar of the pride is 13 seconds of stun and 14 seconds of cooldown. Roar is guaranteed to hit and last time I nailed a caster, they didn't dodge my attacks.

Going toe to toe with a bm or even an assasin, casters can expect to die. Both classes were designed(look at the available skills) to be great 1 on 1. You were going to die either way, aps just makes it faster. If you want to complain about something truly broken, complain specifically about the assasin's stealth. BMs die when casters see them, sins are freakin invisible. They were designed to kill your face in pvp, with or without aps. Deal with it.

Anyone who whines about the farming aspect of 5aps, I'd kindly like you to look at Baby hercules. No repair costs, No feeding when you've got a tome, and with nature's grace you probably dont even need to mana pot. What's a herc run for these days? 70 or 80 mill? Bout the same as just a pair of claws, and just a set of deicide(no other -int gear) isnt gonna let you farm. And if you really wanted to, you could set up a pet heal macro and equip a mp charm, you'll still make money and you can go grab a sandwich while your pet does the work. If you're gunning for taking aps away completly, better snatch the hercs away too.

I kinda went on a rant there, but i felt I needed to say that. My original point was to take 5aps out of TW somehow. If you're fighting 1 on 1, thats your choice. And I know someone will bring up the lack of choice on a PvP server, but you choose to be there. If you don't wanna get pked, reroll on a PvE server. If you come to Dreamweaver, You're welcome to join my Faction, I'll help ya out getting reestablished.

WnbTank - Archosaur · January 2011

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

@ WNB tank

Actually venoes have the edge in APS always, I have killed slower on other toons due to either having to kite more on ranged or taking more hits as melee.

Here are the formulas with LVL21 chars

BM~
1.43 APS with *** concealed claw in 10 seconds rounded with 14 attacks
(156+204)/2 * 14 = 2520

Veno (with no pet)~
1.25 APS with perfect military's sword in 10 seconds rounded as 13 attacks
(144+209)/2 * 13 = 2294.5

Assassin~
1.25 APS with military daggers, same as veno
(199+276)/2 * 13 = 3087.5

Veno

Leaving out archer and barb, low APS = low damage during time..

Now at that level, BM would 95% of the time without the claws, instead he would use military hammer or quest reward dual sword instead, thus nerfing their DPS. They will hit harder, but over time out damaged (normal attack wise). Thus leaving veno and assassin and assassin seems to win.

But wait, there is the veno's pet, Which actually have 1.5 more DPS which makes it like 3445.75 DPS

Not to mention pet's flesh ream. The veno with well fed pet (500 loyalty) will have 0.8 APS which will combine 2.0 each second, (Note: my pet was not well fed either) compared to my glacial walker which killed a lot faster (no flesh ream either)

It will be an exact combined APS of 1.25 + 0.8 = 2.05 APS.

So if you have a fist veno with 4.0 APS, they actually have most likely a pet to help improve their APS, along with a genie AND 0 p.def debuff. Which will outshine every other class in terms of APS.

Imagine your barb gets hit from 2.5 APS venoes while you are debuffed in that state from their base attack in the range of 6kish p.atk.

You are basically hit by 15k in 2 and a half seconds from debuff + APS alone. Does not matter if you heavy cash shop yourself. This is why most venoes are doing it wrong. Sure I took long in that vid, but I just tamed that rhino and played around with it. You should see how I play with my walker, its pure easy. I was lagging + being a lazy player. Anyway, bed time for me b:bye

Now, any freaking single class kills those mobs you were killing on the video, faster than you did. That is to say you failed badly, simple as that. I had my BM grinding on those due I wanted purified oil, he killed lot faster(claws) at lvl 29 and I used so few potions I actually had to npc some of the drop pots. Increased life mobs died in 1 spark, thus killing same mob in 12s, which would be ~4x faster. You could do math but as long as your video give out that sort of opness, I ignore em, honestly I dont really trust your ability with maths. Yeah, I totally should see you play your walker, why the heck did you make video about rhino? That sort of proving is simply bs and takes any credibility you might had earlier... Heck who am I kidding, your credibility, I doubt it could go any lower, no matter what you did.

You want me to believe some genie skill is OP on venos? You likely talking bout tangling mire, you know, it aint class restricted. Unless I`m completely wrong about venos, all I have done is farmed TT with lvl 100 one, melee mastery only helps in fox form, thus making veno dps low compared to other classes with fists/claws. That is unless you glitch claws on fox form which is bannable offense, simple as that.

You are assuming it wrongly, first of all, my barb wont be debuffed, he will spark it off, pet? You send it firsts, it`s dead by the time you get to me. He got solid shield(absords 65% dmg), Poison fang(Elemental dmg, HA dun like it), stun, stun proc on wep, if you foolishly come in range, you will die, unless of course, we are talking OP refines compared to his. At the gear my barb got, veno wont simply have enough hp to do anything scary with claws. The scariest venos are the ones with R9 wep and sage/demon spark from range, r8 can hurt too but not really that scary. You are foolishly assuming you are allowed to do whatever you want, while the one you are trying to kill is just sitting there looking cute.

tweakz · January 2011

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

Unless you play a melee class, you should rarely get hit if you know how to play your class well enough. Increased life monsters are something of an exception, but if you do not mind taking a long time to kill them (and 45 seconds is a long time), you can do that with any class that has a ranged attack.

While I certainly can round up ~50 mobs at a time and 1-2 shot them w/o getting hit: I still grind some that hit me, but it's mostly mag left after the initial AoE strike and the phys can be avoided.

NightRage - Raging Tide · January 2011

KrittyCat wrote: »

Quick question....

Is this thread going to ever get back to it's original topic, or are you all having too much fun telling each other that something that they say is wrong?

Answer honestly, please! b:thanks

Because it's Yulk. He's a troll, and a bad one at that, so until you ban him, he will constantly enter threads spewing retardation and incorrect information, so we have no choice but to slam him down in the hopes that one day he might realize just how dumb he is.

Evict - Heavens Tear · January 2011

NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »

Because it's Yulk. He's a troll, and a bad one at that, so until you ban him, he will constantly enter threads spewing retardation and incorrect information, so we have no choice but to slam him down in the hopes that one day he might realize just how dumb he is.

If only.. b:sad

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear · January 2011

Martiin - Archosaur wrote: »

I read that and I simply could not resist. The picture below should answer the question nicely b:laugh

http://www.guitarforworship.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Someone-is-Wrong-on-the-Internet.jpg

picture originally from xkcd. Randall's work is a favorite of mine, also.

tweakz · January 2011

NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »

Because it's Yulk. He's a troll, and a bad one at that, so until you ban him, he will constantly enter threads spewing re[/COLOR]]tardation and incorrect information, so we have no choice but to slam him down in the hopes that one day he might realize just how dumb he is.[/COLOR]

He's good for laughs. I worry more about the people seriously responding to him being *politically incorrect word* than him.

Jhalil - Heavens Tear · January 2011

FU, 5 APS is perfectly balanced. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go solo 3-1.

Granrey - Sanctuary · January 2011

Jhalil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

FU, 5 APS is perfectly balanced. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go solo 3-1.

ha ha hab:chuckleb:laugh

Ursa - Dreamweaver · January 2011

Chaos_Hobo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

......

WALL OF TEXT

.

I agree with you to some extent.
Problem is not really 5 aps, it's what you can or cannot do when you're permasparked.
No one really cares about 4-5 aps in TW. As -int char in TW you won't make a difference. I would rather have a +10 lunar or a r8 wiz/sin in TW than a 4-5 aps Sin or BM.

The problem with 4-5 aps however is the INCREDIBLE advantage it brings in PvE. I have both a R8 wizard and a 4 aps BM so I can compare them pretty well.
Just as a discussion start, let's take the dog in Cube 45: Takes me about 3/5 minutes to take him down with my wiz(roughly...I'll time it when I'll get there again). I have to pot, I have to be aware of interrupts, I can't just go there, click, sit back, wait for NPC to pop.
On my BM on the other hand, I go in and takes 3 sparks to kill the dog. Since I'm permasparked (minus 2-4 hits) u can do the math what's the dmg output.

Now here is where all becomes interesting: So I had this lvl 100 wizard, right? 6200 HP, 12k magic attk, 14 crit, 7500pdef 8500 mdef, ALL STATS UNBUFFED, and that was a year ago. I just could not compete in DD with any -int class. So, for a while I quit the game, then I came back saying, well, why not roll a -int class.

So what did I do? First, read the forum. QQ about how much -interval gear costs. OK I was a bit skeptic, but I went ahead, I had nothing else to lose.
I start selling all the stuff I didn't had bound on my wiz: 2 lunar rings, lunar weapon, TT90 top/pants.
Out of that sale I got a Deicide, -int cape, enough cash for TT99 sleeves and pants and a lot of coins I put into oracles.
Oracle + FC = lvl 99 and 4 aps.
Started farming TT.
Got rank8 on wizard (thanks to sale) and on BM. ALL THIS with half the gear I had on my wizard (ofc , used the cube neck, wsng belt and tome from my wiz)

Wizard alone could have not done that. Not in a year, not at the pace I could do it with the BM.
If the focus would be only the BM, I could have had rank 9 on him already. But I just don't like the class. He's a farm tool, he has some good points, but he never grew on me.
My wiz on the other hand, using 100% of what the BM is farming, it's just becoming slowly a powerhouse. I already restored all the gear I sold to created the BM and I'm just building on top of it now.

Yeah, a good wizard and a good BM cost about the same. But the advantage that the -int classes have when they become permasparked in making money solo, without depending on anyone just cannot be matched.
My BM makes roughly about 10 to 15 times the amount of coins I can make with my wizard. Hands down, that is WHY the -int is imba and broken and should not exist in this game. Damage in PvP and other **** like that is detail and kids qq topic.

tweakz · January 2011

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My BM makes roughly about 10 to 15 times the amount of coins I can make with my wizard. Hands down, that is WHY the -int is imba and broken and should not exist in this game. Damage in PvP and other **** like that is detail and kids qq topic.

Your BM can make 15+m an hour outside of 2x, or are you trying to play your wiz as if it's a BM?

Traz - Dreamweaver · January 2011

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My BM makes roughly about 10 to 15 times the amount of coins I can make with my wizard. Hands down, that is WHY the -int is imba and broken and should not exist in this game. Damage in PvP and other **** like that is detail and kids qq topic.

And your Wiz kills me 10 to 15 times more then any other class in TW, BALANCED. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · January 2011

tweakz wrote: »

Your BM can make 15+m an hour outside of 2x, or are you trying to play your wiz as if it's a BM?

I didn't say in a hour. I said that BM can produce about 10-15 times more coins that my wiz during my ingame time. A BM build with not even half the gear I had on my wiz. There is just no competition.

And your Wiz kills me 10 to 15 times more then any other class in TW, BALANCED. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Well, It's not like we're going often 1v1 in TW, speaking from Wizard vs Barb perspective here. Yeah, ranged classes have the PvP/TW advantage...well, that's to the point where -interval goes far ahead in refines and shards.
During my wizard times I was scraping my pockets for a perf citrine shard. Now I do the math how many citrine gems I'm gonna put in the r8 top. Quite a diff I may add.

And yeah, I can have my cake and eat it too. As i was told before: You don't like it? roll a -int class I will say now: You don't like dying 10-15 times more? Roll a range DD class (Take Heartz's example, lol).

Is this how it should be? no. DD should be DD. Tank should be tank. Support class should be support class and not match DD in damage or Tank in it's tanking abilities. Regardless of Phys DD or Mag DD , you should be around the same values as DD(DPS can be balanced with DPH, I don't see any problems there). Otherwise what's the point of rolling one class if the other one does about 5 times more damage and it's able to solo pretty much every money making instance ingame (or duo it with a cleric to be carefree and have a beer and a chat while cleric BBs and I dd the boss to death) and keep the profit ? Excuse me, but unless you're emo I don't see the reason why someone would chose to roll a class knowing it will be in severe disadvantage in the sole department where that class should shine.

Quilue - Sanctuary · January 2011

but there should be a distinction between ranged DD and melee DD. If ranged DD can match melee DD, there's no reason to be melee period.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · January 2011

i don't see your point. You have options, you have different set of skills.

but you think that being a melee dd entitles you to some kind of x5 dd over anything else in the game?
I hope not...
melee dd can be tanks too, true, so repair cost might come into play. But come on, the times when barbs claimed first drops for millions worh of mats just for 50k worh of repairs is a long way back. I can do a 2-3 run with 25k worth of repairs , i remember back in the days when barbs basicaly stole a minimum of 1 antenna (when it was worth 3 mil) just cause they had very high (100k) repairs.

thumbs · January 2011

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I didn't say in a hour. I said that BM can produce about 10-15 times more coins that my wiz during my ingame time. A BM build with not even half the gear I had on my wiz. There is just no competition.

I don't think you know how to exploit a caster. -Int is good for those who need to be told how to build, how to play, and not have to deal with skills or thought much. A caster can do about as good as a 5aps in profitable game play.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · January 2011

thumbs wrote: »

I don't think you know how to exploit a caster. -Int is good for those who need to be told how to build, how to play, and not have to deal with skills or thought much. A caster can do about as good as a 5aps in profitable game play.

Can you tell me how?b:chuckleb:chuckle

Proving that 5aps isn't broken

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