Proving that 5aps isn't broken

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

5.0 takes no skill compared to veno? lolwut

No class but wizard takes skill t play b:pleased

It's really tough sometimes.
If I click someone to target them, I have to move my mouse allllllllllllll the way over to, like, the other side of my screen to press extreme poison so i can click the hotkey.
Or I can tab someone to target them, then have to move my hand alllllllllllllll the way over to the hotkey, so I can BIDS someone after I click extreme poison.

tweakz

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

erm, I'm all for looking at the bright side of each class and clinging desperatley to the specialization for dear life, but do how casters stack up to 5aps again?

Tell me, a wizard, how I can keep up with 5aps, or how I'm "as well off as 5aps."

Tell me!!! b:angryb:cry

RTFT =s

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol @ merching = selling stuff i farmed in my catshop



no, only enlighted people like tweakz can find ways that a wiz can earn as much coins as a 5aps char and he cannot reveal it. just trust him and stop qq'ing about 5aps earning millions.

I'm not the only caster here claiming such dumbutt.

I could really care less for increasing competition among casters. Probably shouldn't have started this thread, and instead helped support the nonsense about 5aps and Nirvana. When the thousands of 5aps Nirvana farmers roll in: casters will be even better off with the competitive market. -lol

Does the game take skill? It might be a stupid easy game for some of us, but look at the obvious fails with the "this game is dead" in their sigs, then the less obvious that think they need 5aps to be viable. Another thing to try is a random squad doing a BH lately. You'd think with BH being daily that people would get good at running instances as a team, but I see clerics ignoring all but one toon, BMs that HF then 1-1 with claw/fist, archers that break up the group of mobs (if the squad even bothers to attempt AoE'ing), etc.

Tigriss_o - Raging Tide

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

5.0 takes no skill compared to veno? lolwut

Hmmmm I take it no one ever told you you can make more then one Character and if needed more then 1 account. Damn you lvl 101 and still haven't learned that.

Seriously how much brains does it take to understand a persons forums avitar isn't their only or best character.

BTW this is like my 3rd account since beta.

The point I was trying to get across is it's pointless to argue about this. Some will always think it's not broken. Others will always think it is. Why wast time argueing about it. 34 friggen pages leading nowhere. Not acomplishing anything. Reminds me of the days of the nix is OP threads. Two side arguing and not getting anywhere.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

no, only enlighted people like tweakz can find ways that a wiz can earn as much coins as a 5aps char and he cannot reveal it. just trust him and stop qq'ing about 5aps earning millions.

he would tell you about lunar with its tiny market, where almost noone want to buy mats or to grind oht constantly till brains dead.

mystery solved?

(still much less money than competent aps ofc)

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

he would tell you about lunar with its tiny market, where almost noone want to buy mats or to grind oht constantly till brains dead.

mystery solved?

(still much less money than competent aps ofc)

kk, i have calculated the money/time for those :b

Jadsia - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

RTFT =s



I'm not the only caster here claiming such dumbutt.

I could really care less for increasing competition among casters. Probably shouldn't have started this thread, and instead helped support the nonsense about 5aps and Nirvana. When the thousands of 5aps Nirvana farmers roll in: casters will be even better off with the competitive market. -lol

So how would casters benefit from a market when they are nearly shut out of nirvana runs due to the 1000s of 5 APS farmers? Are you stupid enough to believe that the APS crowd farming nirvana is going to create a mat saturation that will drive the prices down and that casters should then be kisssing their feet in awe and praise?

The nonsense is that idiots like you believe that nirvana should be an exclusionary (Predominently APS + the cleric) club that serves only to enrich and empower a certain few classes and that others ought to be dependent on them for mats instead of having the obligation and opportunity to get those mats in their own runs.

No you shouldn't have created this thread because your original argument that all these mythical 0% channeling venos out there are the balance for the 1000s of 5.0 APS permasparked toons is complete and utter ~ self edited~. Instead what we do have is a situation where entire classes are being shut out of the opportunity to participate in many types of instance runs due to their lack of efficiency compared to 5 APS toons. Not only is that not fair it violates the spirit of the game regarding instances and classes.

Laranda - Heavens Tear

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Maybe but it still nerfs most of the veno's most powerful attack skills which are magic based not to mention the pet healing.

Truthfully, it depends upon weapon choices. A Beamhoof Slicer+matk accessories is alot easier to support than the same with a r8 pataka. Also, a fist/claw setup might use their attack speed to get better access to nirvana parties and attempt the higher level nirvana weapon which has a lower magic requirement than r8/r9.

It is possible to use the r8 pataka though with a minor loss compared to your setup. I don't really consider a difference under 100 a nerf. (Before anyone complains, I have that necklace.)

Traz - Dreamweaver

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

So how would casters benefit from a market when they are nearly shut out of nirvana runs due to the 1000s of 5 APS farmers? Are you stupid enough to believe that the APS crowd farming nirvana is going to create a mat saturation that will drive the prices down and that casters should then be kisssing their feet in awe and praise?

The nonsense is that idiots like you believe that nirvana should be an exclusionary (Predominently APS + the cleric) club that serves only to enrich and empower a certain few classes and that others ought to be dependent on them for mats instead of having the obligation and opportunity to get those mats in their own runs.

No you shouldn't have created this thread because your original argument that all these mythical 0% channeling venos out there are the balance for the 1000s of 5.0 APS permasparked toons is complete and utter ~ self edited~. Instead what we do have is a situation where entire classes are being shut out of the opportunity to participate in many types of instance runs due to their lack of efficiency compared to 5 APS toons. Not only is that not fair it violates the spirit of the game regarding instances and classes.

I've done numerous 15 minute runs with only 1-2 at most 5.0s. What you want to be ******** about is everything thinks a full 5.0 squad = fastest. On a side note my friends (mages or otherwise) > 5 minute runs, but I guess from what you're saying I'm as rare as a 0% chan veno.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

15 min nv runs with 1-2 5.0 aps and rest casters, must be common like those 3-4 axe barb TT runs.


it was proven in 2nd or 3rd post, that this topic is fail or just troll bait..

how this turned to 34 pages?.. b:surrender

SQUISHKASS - Sanctuary

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

No you shouldn't have created this thread because your original argument that all these mythical 0% channeling venos out there are the balance for the 1000s of 5.0 APS permasparked toons is complete and utter ~ self edited~. Instead what we do have is a situation where entire classes are being shut out of the opportunity to participate in many types of instance runs due to their lack of efficiency compared to 5 APS toons. Not only is that not fair it violates the spirit of the game regarding instances and classes.

That coming form a veno... Which prior to aps craze & tt change used to solo everything...

tweakz

SQUISHKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

That coming form a veno... Which prior to aps craze & tt change used to solo everything...

No, that coming from someone who either lacks reading comprehension or made up ****.

Jadsia - Lost City

SQUISHKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

That coming form a veno... Which prior to aps craze & tt change used to solo everything...

Venos were created with the ability to solo a lot PvE from the very start and yes that does includes TT and some other bosses after spending 190 gold for a herc. I grant you that but since when has a veno been able to do it permasparked? How many venos were or are WC'ing for herc veno squads to run instances for TT, etc while shutting out most other classes - like say melee types - because we can do it more efficiently. Then tell the rest that they should appreciate the fact that venos got cheap TT mats to sell to everyone else who couldn't solo the instances while telling them to get over it? That doesn't happen as all class TT squads were and still are in high demand. This is not the case with nirvana where APS squads are rejecting entire classes based upon their inability to DD fast enough. Apples and oranges.

Besides, I was never selfish with my ability to solo any boss inside or outside of TT. I always invited others and even offered to run instances for and with others who needed the mats, quests, culti, bh, etc and asked nothing in return unlike others out there. I still do when I'm online.

Jadsia - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

No, that coming from someone who either lacks reading comprehension or made up ****.

And yet another personal attack instead of coming up with anything substantive to defend your utterly discredited original argument.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Venos were created with the ability to solo a lot PvE from the very start and yes that does includes TT and some other bosses after spending 190 gold for a herc. I grant you that but since when has a veno been able to do it permasparked? How many venos were WC'ing for herc veno squads to run instances for TT while shutting out most other classes - like say melee types - then telling the rest that they should appreciate the fact that venos got cheap TT mats to sell to everyone else who couldn't solo the instances then telling them to get over it? That never happened as all class TT squads were and still are in high demand. Thast is not the case with nirvana. Apples and oranges.

umm that did happen, there were plenty veno speed squads farming TTs, and before change/high intervals the bless herc veno squads, were some of richest people and most exclusive farm groups on HT...

Jadsia - Lost City

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

umm that did happen, there were plenty veno speed squads farming TTs, and before change/high intervals the bless herc veno squads, were some of richest people and most exclusive farm groups on HT...

I never saw any. Venos who solo'd, well, they just solo'd. I did veno runs with my old faction but my old faction was almost all venos however not anything like the nirvana APS crowds being so exclusionary and never with the ability to permaspark through an entire instance in less than 30 minutes. It took venos hours to run solo through whole subbed instances in TT.

Besides, venos are not speed DDs and this class is close to playing 2 classes at once because of the pet - DD and a healer - and our advantage in PvE is well known from the 1st level. I suppose that is considered unfair by some.

Centetric - Lost City

TrueJustice - Harshlands wrote: »

I have never even seen gears with 2x -6% channeling.
You are talking like 3x -6% gears are available for everyone.
.

someone was selling a neck with 3x -6% channeling. but it was like an 8x neck with missing defenses . and the tried to sell it for like 200mil.

i knew a friend with 42 -chan (or was it 52 -chan) , but she was banned lol.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

I never saw any. Venos who solo'd, well, they just solo'd. I did veno runs with my old faction but my old faction was almost all venos however not anything like the nirvana APS crowds being so exclusionary and never with the ability to permaspark through an entire instance in less than 30 minutes. It took venos hours to run solo through whole subbed instances in TT.

Besides, venos are not speed DDs and this class is close to playing 2 classes at once because of the pet - DD and a healer - and our advantage in PvE is well known from the 1st level. I suppose that is considered unfair by some.

A full squad of 4-5 -int users with +10 weapons can take less than 30 minutes average to run a 3-3 TT, not to mention the hp and defense requirements to tank some of the harder bosses in there (also assuming the bosses don't do a *** combo and just wipe your squad). Are you saying a lone veno should do better? No? Then stop complaining. Without fast DDs 3-x TTs would be almost impossible anyways.

Also, truly fast squads in Nirvana don't reject anyone. They have like 3 people with really nice weapons, and they don't really care what other classes they bring. It's the back water squads with +2 claws that care what class comes with...LOL Those squads probably take an hour in there anyway. Since the boss seals and random aggros, the time you spend sparked is really not that long. Really fast squads can kill the bosses within 1-2 spark cycles, the rest chase the bosses around mostly un-sparked. Far from "permasparking OMG"

Jadsia - Lost City

Centetric - Lost City wrote: »

someone was selling a neck with 3x -6% channeling. but it was like an 8x neck with missing defenses . and the tried to sell it for like 200mil.

i knew a friend with 42 -chan (or was it 52 -chan) , but she was banned lol.

That's too bad. She could have had all kinds of fairly common 3x -6 channeling gears to make herself 0% channeling and prove Tweakz's thesis by now.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

\
Also, truly fast squads in Nirvana don't reject anyone. They have like 3 people with really nice weapons, and they don't really care what other classes they bring. It's the back water squads with +2 claws that care what class comes with...LOL Those squads probably take an hour in there anyway. Since the boss seals and random aggros, the time you spend sparked is really not that long. Really fast squads can kill the bosses within 1-2 spark cycles, the rest chase the bosses around mostly un-sparked. Far from "permasparking OMG"

QTF once have enough dps to kill the easy bosses before skill its whoever else wants to come/is a friend
it does kinda becoming diminished rewards throwing another high DPS in there when it takes longer to port/run to boss then kill

Jadsia - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

A full squad of 4-5 -int users with +10 weapons can take less than 30 minutes average to run a 3-3 TT, not to mention the hp and defense requirements to tank some of the harder bosses in there (also assuming the bosses don't do a *** combo and just wipe your squad). Are you saying a lone veno should do better? No? Then stop complaining. Without fast DDs 3-x TTs would be almost impossible anyways.

Also, truly fast squads in Nirvana don't reject anyone. They have like 3 people with really nice weapons, and they don't really care what other classes they bring. It's the back water squads with +2 claws that care what class comes with...LOL Those squads probably take an hour in there anyway. Since the boss seals and random aggros, the time you spend sparked is really not that long. Really fast squads can kill the bosses within 1-2 spark cycles, the rest chase the bosses around mostly un-sparked. Far from "permasparking OMG"

Since when did I ever say a lone veno should be better at TT 3.x than any other class? In fact I don't ever recall even coming close to saying that. I said that venos are, by the nature of their classes, better at PvE from level one than most other classes as they are like having 2 DDs in 1 (one being a healer too). Before the devs nerfed TT it took hours for a veno to solo an instance and now a veno takes longer and cannot solo any 3x without a great amount of effort, expense and time. I only heard there was a way but have never been able to do it. Far cry from what 5 APS permasparked toons can do now.

Also I see fast nirvana squads (10-20 minutes an instance) rejecting everyone not APS all the freaking time in WC so don't try to feed me that bull****. And those really fast squads you speak of are almost all APS too which only further demonstrates that other classes are excluded from those runs. Doesn't take a genius to know that a squad of sparked 5 APS toons can take a nirvana boss down in a minute without 'permasparking'. Hell those squads don't even have a need for a cleric. I suppose if you're one of those exploiting APS to make several million in a single 10 - 20 minute run it would not seem much of an exploit. A veno solo'ing in TT or anywhere couldn't even come close to that.

Also, the richest people on my server were mega faction members that owned most of the map in TW before they nerfed it.

SQUISHKASS - Sanctuary

Venos were created with the ability to solo a lot PvE from the very start and yes that does includes TT and some other bosses after spending 190 gold for a herc.

& Getting 5 aps along with actual HP you'd need to SOLO squad tts is far more than 190 G.

How many venos were or are WC'ing for herc veno squads to run instances for TT, etc while shutting out most other classes - like say melee types - because we can do it more efficiently. Then tell the rest that they should appreciate the fact that venos got cheap TT mats to sell to everyone else who couldn't solo the instances while telling them to get over it? That doesn't happen as all class TT squads were and still are in high demand.

Then we must have been playing dif versions, cause there were plenty of venos that held big part of the tt market back in the days... & I was spammed every 5 minutes to help open tt doors. Because of this I made a herked venos & with another veno friend we were soloing TT, doing it fairly fast & earning tons.

Besides, I was never selfish with my ability to solo any boss inside or outside of TT. I always invited others and even offered to run instances for and with others who needed the mats, quests, culti, bh, etc and asked nothing in return unlike others out there. I still do when I'm online.

What's your point? You so nice you take non high DD, yet 5 aps ppl never squad with lower DDs? Sure...
I agree with Quil. I don't need to worry & run around spamming for high aps to take down Metal if I'm already in squad.

Before the devs nerfed TT it took hours for a veno to solo an instance and now a veno takes longer and cannot solo any 3x without a great amount of effort, expense and time.

As in any other class now can't solo a tt without "a great amount of effort, expense and time."

Also I see fast nirvana squads (10-20 minutes an instance) rejecting everyone not APS all the freaking time in WC so don't try to feed me that bull****.

The WC squads of "OMG NEED HIGH APS FOR NIRV" are usually the slow drop out ppl. The fast, good DDs know plenty of ppl & don't really have issues finding squads or just grab a friend to come along.

Godz_Raven - Harshlands

when a 5 aps can kill you whitout your charm ever getting used means they are broken its not thier fault its the developers fault ofc maybe lowering down the max aps isnt the awser but its probably easier for developers to do that then fix their danm bugs .Gl hf

Quilue - Sanctuary

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Also I see fast nirvana squads (10-20 minutes an instance) rejecting everyone not APS all the freaking time in WC so don't try to feed me that bull****. And those really fast squads you speak of are almost all APS too which only further demonstrates that other classes are excluded from those runs. Doesn't take a genius to know that a squad of sparked 5 APS toons can take a nirvana boss down in a minute without 'permasparking'. Hell those squads don't even have a need for a cleric. I suppose if you're one of those exploiting APS to make several million in a single 10 - 20 minute run it would not seem much of an exploit. A veno solo'ing in TT or anywhere couldn't even come close to that.

Also, the richest people on my server were mega faction members that owned most of the map in TW before they nerfed it.

This just proves that you don't run Nirvana much at all. People with good gears don't world chat, they get whispers asking them to go. If you ever have a good -int DD, the moment you log on you will get whispers. Squads world chatting for "APS only" are usually the backwater slow squads. LOL

If it's somehow different on your server then I'm just very, very sorry

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

This just proves that you don't run Nirvana much at all. People with good gears don't world chat, they get whispers asking them to go. If you ever have a good -int DD, the moment you log on you will get whispers. Squads world chatting for "APS only" are usually the backwater slow squads. LOL

I have never once responded or needed to call on WC for a Nirvana squad. In fact, I ended up deleting a whole bunch of people that would do nothing but ask me to squads the moment I logged in. Or people who would beg for account information.

That being said, I only run 2 or 3 man parties whenever I go, with friends only. It's just not worth the effort splitting between 6 people. xP

Jadsia - Lost City

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

I have never once responded or needed to call on WC for a Nirvana squad. In fact, I ended up deleting a whole bunch of people that would do nothing but ask me to squads the moment I logged in. Or people who would beg for account information.

That being said, I only run 2 or 3 man parties whenever I go, with friends only. It's just not worth the effort splitting between 6 people. xP

This proves my point to a certain degree. Time for me to move on..

Jadsia - Lost City

SQUISHKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

& Getting 5 aps along with actual HP you'd need to SOLO squad tts is far more than 190 G.

So what? Even with a herc it takes me what? a month and a half to make another 100 mil solo in TT when a 5 APS can farm nirvana for a couple weeks to make the same?

Then we must have been playing dif versions, cause there were plenty of venos that held big part of the tt market back in the days... & I was spammed every 5 minutes to help open tt doors. Because of this I made a herked venos & with another veno friend we were soloing TT, doing it fairly fast & earning tons.


We must have been because I never seen any and I've been playing my veno on the same server since Feb 2008


What's your point? You so nice you take non high DD, yet 5 aps ppl never squad with lower DDs? Sure...

No, My point is that I share the benefits of my character's abilities even when it seems like an exploit to help others get ahead. almost all venos I associated with in the game did the same regardless of class.


I agree with Quil. I don't need to worry & run around spamming for high aps to take down Metal if I'm already in squad.

That's nice.

As in any other class now can't solo a tt without "a great amount of effort, expense and time."

As I said, It took a great amount of effort, expense, time before they nerfed TT but now even more so. So What.


The WC squads of "OMG NEED HIGH APS FOR NIRV" are usually the slow drop out ppl. The fast, good DDs know plenty of ppl & don't really have issues finding squads or just grab a friend to come along.

Slow drop out people? mmm OK. Whatever that means but seeing a WC for non APS toons other than for a cleric every now and then for nirvana is not very common these days. They want fast APS classes for nirvana.

Whatever..

Mosz - Heavens Tear

1.a month and a half is very different from "a couple of weeks" ?
2.yah you seem to have not noticed it, some of us did. a lot of venos were super rich and controlled a lot of mats
3/4/5/ w.e
6.here is what it means if you didnt understand my post either. if its a truely very powerful DD squad , only needs 2-3 APS users to kill (the annoying) bosses before they cast their special skill, at that point more DPS really has highly diminished returns, and those squads generally will take w.e other class
the squads shouting for all APS typically means low refines and they even with five "aps toons" cant kill a boss before uses special skills

Centetric - Lost City

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

That's too bad. She could have had all kinds of fairly common 3x -6 channeling gears to make herself 0% channeling and prove Tweakz's thesis by now.

at the time her gear was not common. she had the best gear available at the time before Nirvana was implemented. she switched out her rings tho sometimes to get it her channeling.


she charged a ton during the first anni pack sale . got even richer(she already was a super cash shopper) .
and -chan her wep.

tweakz is still a little right tho i think lol.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

umm that did happen, there were plenty veno speed squads farming TTs, and before change/high intervals the bless herc veno squads, were some of richest people and most exclusive farm groups on HT...

SQUISHKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

Then we must have been playing dif versions, cause there were plenty of venos that held big part of the tt market back in the days... & I was spammed every 5 minutes to help open tt doors. Because of this I made a herked venos & with another veno friend we were soloing TT, doing it fairly fast & earning tons.
As in any other class now can't solo a tt without "a great amount of effort, expense and time."


The WC squads of "OMG NEED HIGH APS FOR NIRV" are usually the slow drop out ppl. The fast, good DDs know plenty of ppl & don't really have issues finding squads or just grab a friend to come along.

Soo... lol

what i get from the last few posts in this thread is:

Veno's used to dominate TT market and were filthy rich.
5APS is a latent "the poor strike back" action.

b:chuckle

SQUISHKASS - Sanctuary

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary wrote: »

Soo... lol

what i get from the last few posts in this thread is:

Veno's used to dominate TT market and were filthy rich.
5APS is a latent "the poor strike back" action.

b:chuckle

b:angry Power to the squishies! b:angry