An Early GM Response to the TW Changes
Comments
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Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »Nothing worth fighting for? How about just a fight? Do people still PK even when everyone uses safety locks? Do people still go to DT with no intention to dig chests and just fight people?
On one hand people from landed factions correctly say that the pay really just covers for their expenses and nothing much more.
On the other hand, here you have people refusing to TW because they are no longer getting paid? For the majority of the un-landed factions, who paid for their TW expenses? Why did they TW before? So they can fight for weeks in hopes of finally having free PvP?
Lastly, both Sanctuary and LC had the map taken over by 1 dominant faction - before the TW changes. So we can't say what happened on HT couldn't have happened otherwise.
You're talking about minor skirmishes, you're talking about a momen'ts thrill and minor losses, you're also talking about a selected handful of players
When you go DT there's no risk to losing anything, and you can bail out anytime you want, also you lose nothing but a few coins in repairs, if you PK for fun you usually just bash a few guys then scram, never fight for too long and rarely ever invest many resources on it
In TW we're talking about a big fight, we're talking about a match that can go on for 3 hours without a clear victor (been there, done that), we're talking about going against up to 80 peeps that want to bash your crystal just as much as you want to bash theirs, we're talking about building 6 base towers and 6 middle road towers with a net value of 100k each (at the very least, you can build more if you want to to improve defences), we're talking about catapult scrolls, we're talking about charming barbarians and giving them apothecary remedies, we're talking about people using charms of their own, we're talking about crab meat jiaozi which is not cheap considering how fast you consume it (munched thru 200 of those in a 3 hour TW)
As stated above, TWing is not BY ANY MEANS cheap, even if your faction members are willing to fight with their own coins, how do you expect to build the towers and afford the catapult scrolls? and considering the fact that now only top-of-the-line factions own the entire map (keep reading for that) you have no choice but to build as much defence as you can
Most faction leaders are not stupid, and they know how to make a cost/benefit analysis like this: "it's going to cost the faction bank 1,2m coins to build all the towers and around 500k for catapult scrolls (not sure about the cost of those), that's 1,7m that are leaving the faction bank and never returning, plus it's going to cost us another 500k to PLACE A BID and see if we manage to somehow go into TW, so that's 2,2m that are going down the drain, also to have a realistic chance, barbarians that pull catapults must get at least a silver charm each (ideally gold) or they're gonna be dead before reaching the door, that's about 600k-1m coins per barbarian (some have charms of their own, but several factions offer their cata-pulling barbarians free charms for TW so they have no excuse for chickening out), so at least 3,5m coins are going down the drain in a TW, with no warrantee we will win ofc"
Now if they win, they will get meagre 100 mirages which are 1m coins, less than 30% of the original investment, and they can be sure they will be on the sights of the strong faction and they will try to overrun them on the next week for defying their power, so they consistently lost 2,5m coins off the faction bank AND the morale of the faction went down if they didn't win
On the other hand, if they just organize a few faction events like TT runs or WB hunting and invest on some loyal members' gear, they can effectively double or triple those 3,5m in about 2 hours with several good squads, what is it going to be?
Also as i said, some people are willing to fight just for the heck of it, some are not, and for a TW you need at least 50 peeps (ideally 80) all willing to fight, the selected handful might be corageous, but not strong enough
And for all of you GMs, look how awesome your patch was to prevent a single faction from taking over the whole map
http://galeon.com/pukopolis/Useenow.bmp
In some pen and paper roles that would be called a "critical fail!"Originally Posted by frankieraye: To say that would be a lie, because in regards to the DQ problem, it's something that we're honestly still working on, and something that we believe we can fix.
(8)Don't stop! believing! hold onto that feeling!(8)0 -
Daikataro - Dreamweaver wrote: »You're talking about minor skirmishes, you're talking about a momen'ts thrill and minor losses, you're also talking about a selected handful of players
When you go DT there's no risk to losing anything, and you can bail out anytime you want, also you lose nothing but a few coins in repairs, if you PK for fun you usually just bash a few guys then scram, never fight for too long and rarely ever invest many resources on it
In TW we're talking about a big fight, we're talking about a match that can go on for 3 hours without a clear victor (been there, done that), we're talking about going against up to 80 peeps that want to bash your crystal just as much as you want to bash theirs, we're talking about building 6 base towers and 6 middle road towers with a net value of 100k each (at the very least, you can build more if you want to to improve defences), we're talking about catapult scrolls, we're talking about charming barbarians and giving them apothecary remedies, we're talking about people using charms of their own, we're talking about crab meat jiaozi which is not cheap considering how fast you consume it (munched thru 200 of those in a 3 hour TW)
As stated above, TWing is not BY ANY MEANS cheap, even if your faction members are willing to fight with their own coins, how do you expect to build the towers and afford the catapult scrolls? and considering the fact that now only top-of-the-line factions own the entire map (keep reading for that) you have no choice but to build as much defence as you can
Most faction leaders are not stupid, and they know how to make a cost/benefit analysis like this: "it's going to cost the faction bank 1,2m coins to build all the towers and around 500k for catapult scrolls (not sure about the cost of those), that's 1,7m that are leaving the faction bank and never returning, plus it's going to cost us another 500k to PLACE A BID and see if we manage to somehow go into TW, so that's 2,2m that are going down the drain, also to have a realistic chance, barbarians that pull catapults must get at least a silver charm each (ideally gold) or they're gonna be dead before reaching the door, that's about 600k-1m coins per barbarian (some have charms of their own, but several factions offer their cata-pulling barbarians free charms for TW so they have no excuse for chickening out), so at least 3,5m coins are going down the drain in a TW, with no warrantee we will win ofc"
Now if they win, they will get meagre 100 mirages which are 1m coins, less than 30% of the original investment, and they can be sure they will be on the sights of the strong faction and they will try to overrun them on the next week for defying their power, so they consistently lost 2,5m coins off the faction bank AND the morale of the faction went down if they didn't win
On the other hand, if they just organize a few faction events like TT runs or WB hunting and invest on some loyal members' gear, they can effectively double or triple those 3,5m in about 2 hours with several good squads, what is it going to be?
Also as i said, some people are willing to fight just for the heck of it, some are not, and for a TW you need at least 50 peeps (ideally 80) all willing to fight, the selected handful might be corageous, but not strong enough
And for all of you GMs, look how awesome your patch was to prevent a single faction from taking over the whole map
http://galeon.com/pukopolis/Useenow.bmp
In some pen and paper roles that would be called a "critical fail!"
Well sayd, GMs need to read this.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination. X30 -
Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »Sounds like a job for the Hero of Time! b:pleased
It will take the power of ALL CSer credit cards to defeat such an evil. b:shocked
rolf, credit cards seems to be the most powerful weapon against the evil in this game, who wants a TT weapon now? XD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination. X30 -
The patch was ok except that it didnt reset the maps. Had it reset the maps all lands would have been reverted back to PVE, something most faction will never experience. This would have brought in almost every faction bidding to own a land.
If they wanted to make a change they should have done it completely and not just half-assed.0 -
*kicks off the 3rd page*0
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Bumb / Convo starter:
Couldnt something with no NPC value be given as TW land payments to give people a reason to want to win? More than a badge for rank 9 which is something maybe 1/2 people will ever do on PWI.
Usubs, hypers, mounts, aero gear, wing widgets, teinkung / teisha stones, 1* Dorbs, Essence of nature, bronze/silver charms, event pots. The options are limitless.
These items wouldnt cause inflation as they "create" no coins, tho if the land owning faction wished they could sell them.
Im not saying alot of each item, but like low lvl lands could give 100 Usubs/50 hypers/50 essence of nature/5 bronze charms/500 event pots...
Race citys could give like 5 silver charms/ the NPC horse mount/ 50 teinkung/teisha/ 50 1* Dorbs/ 100 hypers/ 200 usubs.
Then 1k and archo could give 1 fly mount/ a 11ms mount/ 100 1* dorbs/ 10 silver charms...
Any 1 of the options, each one is random.
Just examples ofcourse, but this would give a reason for people to want to take land again. Something needs to be changed...the competition is gone...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »The patch was ok except that it didnt reset the maps. Had it reset the maps all lands would have been reverted back to PVE, something most faction will never experience. This would have brought in almost every faction bidding to own a land.
If they wanted to make a change they should have done it completely and not just half-assed.
If they ever re set the map they better change the PvE fights too cause 5 min roll overs of mobs not fun b:surrender give us some jucied up mobs. And my fav idea make Arch and 1k fights be every single WB TT 3-3 bosses all Warsong bosses FB 99 bosses and nirvana bosses. Talk about a TW worth doing b:dirty[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
frankieraye, any updates?0
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Crazydan - Heavens Tear wrote: »If they ever re set the map they better change the PvE fights too cause 5 min roll overs of mobs not fun b:surrender give us some jucied up mobs. And my fav idea make Arch and 1k fights be every single WB TT 3-3 bosses all Warsong bosses FB 99 bosses and nirvana bosses. Talk about a TW worth doing b:dirty
THat could be awsome b:dirtyb:victory0 -
Iulius - Heavens Tear wrote: »THat could be impossible b:dirtyb:victory
fixed b:laugh
but no seriosly it would make for an epic TW lol.
Wonder if it could be done in 3 hours though? might need to expand time for those wars by 2 or 3 hours b:shocked0 -
Any response from devs?"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory.
Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." ~Sun Tzu
"Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!"
~Iron Mike Tyson Enrage.omgforum.net
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Elednor - Harshlands wrote: »Bumb / Convo starter:
Couldnt something with no NPC value be given as TW land payments to give people a reason to want to win? More than a badge for rank 9 which is something maybe 1/2 people will ever do on PWI.
Usubs, hypers, mounts, aero gear, wing widgets, teinkung / teisha stones, 1* Dorbs, Essence of nature, bronze/silver charms, event pots. The options are limitless.
These items wouldnt cause inflation as they "create" no coins, tho if the land owning faction wished they could sell them.
Im not saying alot of each item, but like low lvl lands could give 100 Usubs/50 hypers/50 essence of nature/5 bronze charms/500 event pots...
Race citys could give like 5 silver charms/ the NPC horse mount/ 50 teinkung/teisha/ 50 1* Dorbs/ 100 hypers/ 200 usubs.
Then 1k and archo could give 1 fly mount/ a 11ms mount/ 100 1* dorbs/ 10 silver charms...
Any 1 of the options, each one is random.
Just examples ofcourse, but this would give a reason for people to want to take land again. Something needs to be changed...the competition is gone...
I have suggested things like this in multiple threads before and sad to say it makes sense and is therefore overlooked.
I was thinking that a faction could get some type of fashion as long as you own specific territory. when u lose the land the fashion disappears. same with mounts and aero when u lose the land it disappears. and make it cool stuff not available any other way.
some land can have specific benefits ie TT land gets 200 free run tickets. same with lunar land. FB lands can have free trophy mode tickets.
all these things being non NPCable and if they actually wanted to do some coding they could make them only tradeable between guild members or only useable by people that are members of a particular faction.
theres all kinds of things you could do with the different lands and this community (most of it) is smart enuogh to come up with interesting things that would duly compensate those faction without infusing a ton of coin into the system.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »I have suggested things like this in multiple threads before and sad to say it makes sense and is therefore overlooked.
I was thinking that a faction could get some type of fashion as long as you own specific territory. when u lose the land the fashion disappears. same with mounts and aero when u lose the land it disappears. and make it cool stuff not available any other way.
some land can have specific benefits ie TT land gets 200 free run tickets. same with lunar land. FB lands can have free trophy mode tickets.
all these things being non NPCable and if they actually wanted to do some coding they could make them only tradeable between guild members or only useable by people that are members of a particular faction.
theres all kinds of things you could do with the different lands and this community (most of it) is smart enuogh to come up with interesting things that would duly compensate those faction without infusing a ton of coin into the system.
Sorry but I don't need 49 types of free, non-sellable, zero profit fashion and mounts, my mount is fine and tons of lame fashion is for women and crazydan.
100 dragon orbs per land sounds good. Can't NPC them for coin and they don't inject coin into the game. At the same time you can use/sell them so there is some value to holding land aside from the meager TW's.
Mirages and crapass rank badges are a joke."Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory.
Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." ~Sun Tzu
"Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!"
~Iron Mike Tyson Enrage.omgforum.net
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
FALCON.....PAWWWWWWNSSSSH!
b:question
Gee, I wonder how long we have to A: Bump this until we get an answer, or B: Bump this until the thread gets locked/moved?0 -
I guess I'll keep doing this until I get banned or something...
Bump.
Psssssst....we're not going to forget about this devs...you can uncross your fingers and maybe work on fixing?0 -
Weeeeeee ... Unstickied, where threads go to die
You all got to say your peace so PWI can turn around and tell you, thank you for sharing, we don't give a @#$%.
Have a nice day, LOL
b:laugh0 -
Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »I guess I'll keep doing this until I get banned or something...
Bump.
Psssssst....we're not going to forget about this devs...you can uncross your fingers and maybe work on fixing?
I'm with you, I'm not letting anyone forget this thread. Everyone says to let it die, but that's exactly what the devs want.
We still want an answer to our questions devs. We wont forget.
Oh and that wont lock/move this to lower depths as long as a flame war doesnt start, because that would cause such a huge uproar0 -
DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »I'm with you, I'm not letting anyone forget this thread. Everyone says to let it die, but that's exactly what the devs want.
We still want an answer to our questions devs. We wont forget.
Oh and that wont lock/move this to lower depths as long as a flame war doesnt start, because that would cause such a huge uproar
Well good. Then we just keep bumping this up. If they lock it, it just means they're trying to hide ****.
......again.0 -
SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear wrote: »100 dragon orbs per land sounds good.
lol. That's only 6 times MORE than a land originally paid.
If a faction owned the whole map, that would be a +12 orb a week. lolI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »lol. That's only 6 times MORE than a land originally paid.
If a faction owned the whole map, that would be a +12 orb a week. lol
*starts to think about a world where members of Enraged, Zulu, and Calamity could +12 all of their gear without worrying about loosing celes*
b:shocked OH MY F--0 -
Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »*starts to think about a world where members of Enraged, Zulu, and Calamity could +12 all of their gear without worrying about loosing celes*
b:shocked OH MY F--
Just imagine how fast a faction could get all their core members to like +7-+8 full sets. A few months, really.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »*starts to think about a world where members of Enraged, Zulu, and Calamity could +12 all of their gear without worrying about loosing celes*
b:shocked OH MY F--
o.o oh dear god help us all.....*hides in the bomb shelter*If I sound like I hate you, please don't take it personally...chances are I actually do.0 -
KILL IT WITH FIRE AND HOLY WATER! Michael! Get some silver bullets! Tri, you get the stake!0
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Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »KILL IT WITH FIRE AND HOLY WATER! Michael! Get some silver bullets! Tri, you get the stake!
*brings in a large oak tree with the end of the trunk tapered off into a point* GOT THE STAKE hope it will due b:chuckleIf I sound like I hate you, please don't take it personally...chances are I actually do.0 -
Tricannon - Dreamweaver wrote: »*brings in a large oak tree with the end of the trunk tapered off into a point* GOT THE STAKE hope it will due b:chuckle
Tri, you're EQ aren't you? b:question0 -
Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »Tri, you're EQ aren't you? b:question
former EQ....left when my veno was my main back in late january i think it was...or early feb...something like that XDIf I sound like I hate you, please don't take it personally...chances are I actually do.0 -
Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »Well good. Then we just keep bumping this up. If they lock it, it just means they're trying to hide ****.
......again.
Frankie posts here either:
1) Devs are still making a decision whether or not they will change it.
2) We have the changes planned, we'll announce it soon.
3) Nothing will happen at the moment.
There's really no other choices imo.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »lol. That's only 6 times MORE than a land originally paid.
If a faction owned the whole map, that would be a +12 orb a week. lol
Are dragon orbs really 600k in lost city?
A faction owning the whole map used to bring in like 560m a week which is enough to buy a +12 orb. It turns out though that +12 orbs are difficult to split 200 ways.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Refining Simulator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/refiningsimulator.html (don't use IE)
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Socket Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/socketcalculator.html0 -
almost fell in to the lower depths dont want that to happen0
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why not just limit the number of territorys a faction can hold?0
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