An Early GM Response to the TW Changes

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

frankieraye wrote: »

I've been compiling data regarding the TW system for the past ~2 months since the changes were made, and you guys are right, there are significantly fewer wars per week than there used to be. We understand the importance of TW as the most enjoyable end-game activity, and this concern is something that we are bringing up with the devs.

I'm un-stickying this thread so that we can revert to the system of forum stickies being used solely for announcements.

so the solution to correcting the gross miscalculation of removing the incentive from TW, removing refunds from being out bid is to revamp the forum announcement system?

its not like everyone is gonna forget that their bids wont be refunded, that there cant be bidding wars on lands, and that TW pay was replaced with diamonds, and stupid rank9 badges.

2 fails don't make a win

LifeHunting - Lost City

SashaGray: At least he said they were gonna tell the devs that their "idea" to "improve" the TW sucked balls in PWI.

Oneji - Heavens Tear

I am not sure if this violates anything but.

*Pokes Thread*b:thanks

Alphae - Lost City

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

so the solution to correcting the gross miscalculation of removing the incentive from TW, removing refunds from being out bid is to revamp the forum announcement system?

its not like everyone is gonna forget that their bids wont be refunded, that there cant be bidding wars on lands, and that TW pay was replaced with diamonds, and stupid rank9 badges.

2 fails don't make a win

Truth.

dragnone

Perhaps I am naive, but I've been picturing the devs working hard on a big update, and that's why we haven't had maintenance for a while. But several weeks to do minor localization changes?

I said it before half-jokingly, but now I am serious. Frankie, can you somehow persuade the China devs to open a PWI software development shop here in the states? They can work on PW-CN all they want, I really just want to fix some of the stuff everyone is QQ'ing about and restore parts of the game to a model that works better in a Western society. b:laugh

I would love to see TW pay come back. If that can't happen, then how about boosting the number of mirages we get per territory to something like 1,000 mirages for a level 3 territory, 2,000 for a level 2, and 3,000 for a level 1? b:chuckle

Born_Free - Harshlands

*drop kicks topic back to the top*

I agree with the lizard man, if China's too lazy to give us updates, we can't have a branch in america that can handle our specific cases?
(Of course, we're going to get ignored on this too, but it's worth pointing out that this is a good idea.)

....*Drop kicks the idea of MORE mirages in the teeth*

>:C no. Just no.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

I agree with the lizard man, if China's too lazy to give us updates, we can't have a branch in america that can handle our specific cases?
(Of course, we're going to get ignored on this too, but it's worth pointing out that this is a good idea.)

They'd rather stop updating the game altogether than that. CN will probably 'die' out faster than us, and when it happens (not in the next two years though) there will be no more updates. Which is understandable imo; why should you update such an old game after all four years with the same servers when people considered the game dead two years ago?

There have been rumors saying that the original devs who started back in 2005 ragequit their jobs around 2007 or 2008. The game itself was well over 3.5GB+ already, very much patched and as all games, the code was probably poorly documented. That's my guess why the updates aren't as good as they could and why the old bugs are still unfixed. American team could work if they were fluent Chinese speakers; after all, the code comments should be in Chinese. Understanding all that would take months at worst. Even then decisions wouldn't be made by what we want, and if the CN was still here they'd have to try to implement the biggest changes from there as well.

It would be easier if this was a licensed product. They could ask for the source code and if they got it (haha fat chance) they could hire their own development team. But this is a just a subcompany of CN which means they got their orders to use the patches directly from China.

SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear

Bamp.

Gold has risen 20% and still going on HT.


Whats the progress on resolving the TW "bug"?

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Bamp.

Gold has risen 20% and still going on HT.


Whats the progress on resolving the TW "bug"?

This:

frankieraye wrote: »

I've been compiling data regarding the TW system for the past ~2 months since the changes were made, and you guys are right, there are significantly fewer wars per week than there used to be. We understand the importance of TW as the most enjoyable end-game activity, and this concern is something that we are bringing up with the devs.

Around two-three months before they tell us what will be done with the TW. If the devs aren't going to do anything 'at the moment', we'll hear about it in a month. Probably.

SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

This:



Around two-three months before they tell us what will be done with the TW. If the devs aren't going to do anything 'at the moment', we'll hear about it in a month. Probably.

Such drastic changes should ALWAYS have a contingency plan ready to roll out.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Such drastic changes should ALWAYS have a contingency plan ready to roll out.

Yes, but in this case devs thought that it doesn't matter if something screws up. "This will be a good thing, and if it isn't, we'll figure it out when we see something bad." That's how most MMO companies work.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Such drastic changes should ALWAYS have a contingency plan ready to roll out.

From what i understand, the changes did actually work, in a positive way, in the China version of the game. All their analysis of what the game needed to help TW came from what is happening in that game, and not ours. And then to that extent, they were actually correct in how they chose to proceed with the evidence gathered before even making this extreme change.

We are unfortunately victims of playing the game version they dont care about or just believe that we're all the same. I dont know how they can make such an assumption, especially since many game analysts have noted marked differences between eastern & western gaming cultures, a few being;

(1) Eastern audiences like player vending stalls & hate Auction Houses. Western audiences desire Auction houses.
(2) Eastern audiences like full time PvP, with grave consequences for losing any menial PK fight. Western audiences tend to like to quest in peace often, to chose when they'd like to PvP and to have lesser losses when they do lose (read: guardian angels & PvE realms).

So one can not make assumptions that the changes to a game for an Eastern based audience, will apply equally well to a Western based audience. However since they run the 2 games with identical programs other then localizations, they have no recourse to not touch theirs while fixing ours.

crunchycat

That's an accurate description Darksylph. The end result is that the vast majority of Western players distrust and hate PWI (especially the GMs). Even when they fix the issue, that hate will likely long outlast the game's life cycle.

JiEunxD - Archosaur

The huge mistake that is always made in this version is putting a sick man's cast and wheelchair on a healthy man.
That only degrades the healthy man and does it no good to treat the healthy man like a sick one.

sethh

Well for GM's realized the huge mistake of TW changes took 2 months to send a "suggestion" should take 4, to get an answer saying no 6, saying about Community is getting worst 8. Well ... Guess it is easier that this game finish than we get tw changes back QQ

Born_Free - Harshlands

crunchycat wrote: »

That's an accurate description Darksylph. The end result is that the vast majority of Western players distrust and hate PWI (especially the GMs). Even when they fix the issue, that hate will likely long outlast the game's life cycle.

Oh my friends, that has already long passed. Have you not seen the QQ Mod threads?

All I know is that if this isn't fixed soon, PWI will be loosing more than a few dollars.
Harshland's "Kylin" faction is one of the biggest Cashshopping factions on server, next to Zulu, Crimson, and Blackfox. They've been here a long time. They also haven't been showing up to Zulu TW's, because there's NO point for them anymore. They're pretty much handing the map over on a silver platter because there's nothing worth fighting for.

The same thing pretty much happened in Dreamweaver with Equinox. I mean, Calamity was already long underway with taking the map, but making the prize celestones actually made it WORSE.

Why do you think Enraged took the map? Same reason; they're a powerful faction with ridiculous numbers of Cashshoppers, nobody can outgear them, and now there's no prize to fight for so why waste money on charms and such?

In fact, why even bid if you're just going to loose all your coins in the first place to some half-rate kamakaze team that won't last a minute?

Quilue - Sanctuary

Nothing worth fighting for? How about just a fight? Do people still PK even when everyone uses safety locks? Do people still go to DT with no intention to dig chests and just fight people?

On one hand people from landed factions correctly say that the pay really just covers for their expenses and nothing much more.

On the other hand, here you have people refusing to TW because they are no longer getting paid? For the majority of the un-landed factions, who paid for their TW expenses? Why did they TW before? So they can fight for weeks in hopes of finally having free PvP?

Lastly, both Sanctuary and LC had the map taken over by 1 dominant faction - before the TW changes. So we can't say what happened on HT couldn't have happened otherwise.

SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

Oh my friends, that has already long passed. Have you not seen the QQ Mod threads?

All I know is that if this isn't fixed soon, PWI will be loosing more than a few dollars.
Harshland's "Kylin" faction is one of the biggest Cashshopping factions on server, next to Zulu, Crimson, and Blackfox. They've been here a long time. They also haven't been showing up to Zulu TW's, because there's NO point for them anymore. They're pretty much handing the map over on a silver platter because there's nothing worth fighting for.

The same thing pretty much happened in Dreamweaver with Equinox. I mean, Calamity was already long underway with taking the map, but making the prize celestones actually made it WORSE.

Why do you think Enraged took the map? Same reason; they're a powerful faction with ridiculous numbers of Cashshoppers, nobody can outgear them, and now there's no prize to fight for so why waste money on charms and such?

In fact, why even bid if you're just going to loose all your coins in the first place to some half-rate kamakaze team that won't last a minute?

While we DO have cash shoppers, It's not a ridiculous amount compared to the #2 faction.

Our Defense on #2 faction: 26m?
Our Attack on #2 faction: 2hrs-ish

Enrage/HT is pretty much the exception in the "why large factions own the map" area.

We own the map due to our resolve and the massive amounts of experience we have in TW.

SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear

Due to the 2 months of observation and recent enlightenment, I don't this thread should be going anywhere until the devs respond to frankie and we know if the devs are going to fix what they broke.

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

Thanks to the changes, it clearly seems like territory war is not as competitive as I imagined on my server, Dreamweaver. There are now only four competitive TW factions out there, when I was silly and expected more to rise up. When are we getting word about the changes to see if it'll get fixed, because like many updates, comparing Americans to Malaysians servers hasn't had much luck. Can we have links of the Malaysian server rules and all for us to ask for changes, based on how great their servers run?

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

TW is dead on every server. Only a handful of factions are twing.
Don't get me wrong, the maps can still be colorful...with the colors of the few facs that can still afford to TW.

500k a week to TRY to get a TW, when all you'll do is get outbidded is not something many can afford.

Quilue - Sanctuary

I highly doubt the decline in TW is because of the bidding fees...

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

no page 2 for you, bump

Born_Free - Harshlands

b:puzzled What is this TW of which you speak? We noobs know not of what you say.

BUMP.

Elednor - Harshlands

b:mischievousb:mischievousb:mischievous

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear

Post 1408 like the movie (which kinda sucked a bit)

right....pmub

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

b:puzzled What is this TW of which you speak? We noobs know not of what you say.

BUMP.

Once upon a time, there was this little thing called "T-E-R-R-I-T-O-R-Y W-A-R". It gave factions an opportunity to compete for control of a portion of the map. And it was fun. And the people rejoiced.

Then, an evil god came to the world, the dreaded "Anni Pack". Those who worshipped the Anni Pack and surrendered all their worldly possession to Him were rewarded with great power, and congregated together, and started capturing territories one by one by one in an effort to use the spoils of war to continue to grow their power and dominate the free people of the world. Few would stand against them, and those that did got ***** in 7 minutes or less week, after week, after week. Not withstanding their never ending string of defeats, the people rejoiced at the opportunity for competition. Some even took their families to other worlds not yet under the boot of tyrrany for an opportunity to compete anew.

Until one day, another seemingly benevolent deity sent to these worlds its self-proclaimed savior - "The Great Update". The Great Update was intended to ensure that the powerful would no longer be able to reap the benefits of global domination, instead reducing their spoils to nothing more than hundreds upon hundreds of little, shiney turds. Although seemingly done to remove the source of the tyrants ever increasing power and increase the ability of the meek to compete, this unwittingly resulted in removing any incentive for those innocent souls to even attempt to wage war. The cost of arming its soldiers and building its fortifications were far too expensive given the paltry reward for success, not to mention that it did nothing to increase their ability to compete against the dominant forces of the land whose powers were not lessened by The Great Update. Quite the opposite: they were fortified by it.

Aside from the occasional skirmish among these dominant evils, territory war is virtually non-existent for most of the free people of the world, who curse The Great Update and anxiously await (in vain?) for someone to come and remove it from the world.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Enrage/HT is pretty much the exception in the "why large factions own the map" area.

Yes, yes, you all are exceptional, I'm sure. One of a kind. Did it soooo much differently than every other faction on every other server. There is something new under the sun, and its you. Got it.

SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear wrote: »

We own the map due to our resolve and the massive amounts of experience we have in TW.

Even if you do say so yourself, right?


Honestly, I'd like to know, when people say these grossly self-serving things, do they really believe it themselves? Do they think we believe it? Do they think it matters at all?

The sign of truly great players, factions, etc. is when OTHER people say how great they are. More often than not, the people that toot their own horn are the ones NOONE recognizes are great, so their ego forces them to do it themselves.

That said, feel free to toot toot toot. Just don't be surprised if noone is listening . . . . b:bye

Born_Free - Harshlands

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Aside from the occasional skirmish among these dominant evils, territory war is virtually non-existent for most of the free people of the world, who curse The Great Update and anxiously await (in vain?) for someone to come and remove it from the world.

Sounds like a job for the Hero of Time! b:pleased

It will take the power of ALL CSer credit cards to defeat such an evil. b:shocked

truekossy

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

Sounds like a job for the Hero of Time! b:pleased

Who Crono?

... or do you mean Link?


Maybe the two of them should battle it out to see which is the better hero of time... b:laugh