An Early GM Response to the TW Changes

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Xarathox - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Gold hit 600k this morning on DW.

HT is also infected with +/-600K prices now. .

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

bump for justiceb:victory

Born_Free - Harshlands

zappygun wrote: »

Hm, if you really want to end the deflation, you should remove that horribly disguised anniversary pack from the CS. Perhaps that actually does make the cash shop available for everyone, by lowering the price from 400k+ back to around 100k, which is actually affordable.

And think about it like this Devz:

If gold is cheaper, then more people buy it.
If more people buy it, more people will spend money to get the gold to sell it.
If more people spend money to get gold to sell it, you get money, gold stays cheep, and everybody is relatively less angry than before.

Do you need to MURDER TW to get **** done? Nope. Just rid the world of packs. You will get your god d@mn money. Scary, how maybe if gold were less expensive, you'd sell more of it?

Just a thought.

EDIT:
And if the map is reset upon a map being owned by one color, then there's nothing to worry about a single faction owning the map! (You DO reset the map, DON'T YOU FRANKIE?)
And why should factions who are able to hold the whole map have to suffer for it too? If a faction has the skill to keep--

Oh wait, I forgot. Having skill is a lost art these days. Having credit card is easier.

Juggalobeast - Harshlands

I know a lot of ppl who whould buy 2x more gold if it was near 200k each again the anni packs ruined the game honestly ppl spending 5-20k$ on nothing but packs how stupid its a game wont be around forever and no ones bytching about the TB class its just unfair to veno's wizzys archers cleric's and barb that sins can spark n attack while invisble only way they win they need to nurf that skill to wher eu cannot atatck while invisble that whould help alot venos wont die so easy wizzys can have a chance and barb they get stuned n sealed n occalt n whats with dreaded nerv n why cant any of the true old class get a skill that does that n lol i buypassed a psyics voodoo yesterday zerk crit ftw n psyics why are they made so OP they wasnt meant for that they where meant to replace a barb with Magic boss's make it easyer from what iv been looking into i mean all i see is psyics with 1-3k hp n 12-15k mp lol OP isnt the word i know ppl talk **** but sins are OP with that invisble skill n psyics need to be buildt how they where meant to be

Blancheneige - Heavens Tear

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

What Pwi should of done was A) figure out what facs were doing this, then ban hammer any involved, or set up a fake site that bought coins and excelent prices and stated it was willing to buy coins from these facs, and simply ban anyone that sold coins to the fake site.

You are talking about a company that find it easier to reduce the sale vale ou DQ items by 20% instead of banning the bots farming the said items.....

Born_Free - Harshlands

Juggalobeast - Harshlands wrote: »

I know a lot of ppl who whould buy 2x more gold if it was near 200k each again the anni packs ruined the game honestly ppl spending 5-20k$ on nothing but packs how stupid its a game wont be around forever and no ones bytching about the TB class its just unfair to veno's wizzys archers cleric's and barb that sins can spark n attack while invisble only way they win they need to nurf that skill to wher eu cannot atatck while invisble that whould help alot venos wont die so easy wizzys can have a chance and barb they get stuned n sealed n occalt n whats with dreaded nerv n why cant any of the true old class get a skill that does that n lol i buypassed a psyics voodoo yesterday zerk crit ftw n psyics why are they made so OP they wasnt meant for that they where meant to replace a barb with Magic boss's make it easyer from what iv been looking into i mean all i see is psyics with 1-3k hp n 12-15k mp lol OP isnt the word i know ppl talk **** but sins are OP with that invisble skill n psyics need to be buildt how they where meant to be

I was paying attention right until the bad grammar and lousy points...
>.> Oh wait.

Juggalobeast - Harshlands wrote: »

I know a lot of people who whould buy 2x more gold if it was near 200k each again. The anni packs ruined the game honestly. People spending 5-20k$ on nothing but packs how stupid. It's a game and it won't be around forever; no one's bytching about the TB class its just unfair--

STOP.
Yes they are. Are you blind? There's a whole QQ/Argument thread about Nurfing Force Stealth.

Juggalobeast - Harshlands wrote: »

to venos, wizzys, archers, clerics and barbs that sins can spark n attack while invisble only way they win they need to nurf that skill to where you cannot attack while invisble that whould help a lot.

Once again...thread.

Juggalobeast - Harshlands wrote: »

Venos won't die so easy wizzys can have a chance and barb they get stuned n sealed n occult and what's with deadened nerv and why can't any of the true old class get a skill that does that and lol i buypassed a psyics voodoo.

(Agreed with revamps on other classes--)
>.> You can't "Bypass" White Voodoo, unless you have a cleric/Veno. (They can purify it off.) Last I checked....you're a barb. The only way you bypass white voodoo as a barb?
Hit harder. Ask Jlung sometime how to do it.

Juggalobeast - Harshlands wrote: »

zerk crit ftw (Uh...what?) And psychics, why are they made so OP? They weren't meant for that. (For what? Being OP? Of course not, that's why I get killed by an assassin on a daily basis...duh. Everybody knows, the Sins are the op class...)
They were meant to replace a barb with Magic boss's make it easyer from what iv been looking into i mean all i see is psyics with 1-3k hp n 12-15k mp. (And where the hell are YOU looking at? You must be looking at what's-his-name from Ca$hShop. I know for a fact that UrDian and Longknife don't have 1-3k HP (We're lucky to get even the 3k--) or 12-15k MP. (I think they may have 10-11.) I know people talk **** but sins are OP with that invisble skill and psychics need to be built how they were meant to be

Oh yes, because you're clearly the expert on how Psychics are built. (Not so much to say I am, but I know what I'm talking about at the very LEAST.)
Exactly how is a Psychic meant to be built, Juggy? We're not tanks, at least not like you. There are, like all the other classes, different builds which serve different purposes. I've seen everything from Pure Arcane Psychics (5 Mag each level, squashy as hell,) to Heavy Armor (lol) to Light armor (even MORE lol) and Hybrid. (2 Vit 3 Mag...ftw.)

Our class focuses mainly on buffing ourselves with buffs that harm our enemies. We're like little pufferfish that if you try to hit you will end up dealing damage to yourself. That's what our class is built off of.
Of course, with White Voodoo and Black Voodoo, we're a magic class that's allowed to adapt to certain situations. DDing would require us to go black (and we have to constantly mind stealing aggro, because we hit very hard in black,) and Tanking usually requires us to go in white depending on the kind of boss and how good the cleric is.
PvP is even harder. If we're caught in the wrong buffs? We die. Simple as that.

*sigh* Almost you're entire post was made of QQ, except for maybe the first line. If you want to complain about the Tideborn, make another thread please. This about TW. The only reason why gold was even brought up was because TW is apparently affecting the economy to the point where this change was made.

sethh

Limequest - Dreamweaver wrote: »

By the way....it's almost November now Frankie....just letting you know.
I'm pretty sure your month trial period is long past due.

Remember Gm's month are 3 years in normal calendary

CHRLETT - Archosaur

I HAve A Suggestion ??
Woud It Be Possible To Have The Text Area Window Up When Players Are Looking At The Map??. Please, Because" I Use The Map Lots When Flying. So I Can See My Squad: Members And Chat As Well Thank You b:thanks
And I Love The Game

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

CHRLETT - Archosaur wrote: »

I HAve A Suggestion ??
Woud It Be Possible To Have The Text Area Window Up When Players Are Looking At The Map??. Please, Because" I Use The Map Lots When Flying. So I Can See My Squad: Members And Chat As Well Thank You b:thanks
And I Love The Game

Good suggestion.

Wrong place to put it. Try the *suggestion* forums down by the bottom.

Also, Why Is The Beginning Of Every Word Capitalized?

Alphae - Lost City

CHRLETT - Archosaur wrote: »

I HAve A Suggestion ??
Woud It Be Possible To Have The Text Area Window Up When Players Are Looking At The Map??. Please, Because" I Use The Map Lots When Flying. So I Can See My Squad: Members And Chat As Well Thank You b:thanks
And I Love The Game

Just hit enter to place your cursor back in the chat box while on the map. Your chat box will pop up over the map.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

Alphae - Lost City wrote: »

Just hit enter to place your cursor back in the chat box while on the map. Your chat box will pop up over the map.

Really?

Wow I never tried that. Still used to the old system. b:cute

Alphae - Lost City

Xarathox - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Really?

Wow I never tried that. Still used to the old system. b:cute

You discover things like this when you spend more time talking than leveling b:avoid xD

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

Alphae - Lost City wrote: »

You discover things like this when you spend more time talking than leveling b:avoid xD

Or actually logged in and playing the game. Something I only do on occasion. b:surrender

Valrain - Archosaur

Frankie, is there any information you can offer us on how TW will work in PW Genesis? Even if it's just to say, "TW will be different." Also, is there any chance coins for territory will return?

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

justice bump.

answers pl0x

FallenSnow - Raging Tide

Elapidae - Dreamweaver wrote: »

anyway i'm in TW fact, but we dont hold any land. Some of you asume that this new TW-rules might change anything but it wont at all. GMs said its for bigger facts who just sit on their gold but in the end its not the money they get each week thats gonna **** the big facts, actually its the money small facts gonna bid on this big fact (which they wont get refunded). Some ppl say "oh well they have no money now for charms" (small facts dont have the money either)..its bs...2mil the week is nothing for them. All members in big facts are over lvl90 they just go solo TT in squad mode few times and sell all **** they have and earn 10mil.

TW with small fact against big fact might last 15min if lucky (and enough people appear), so means it has nothing to do with the charms whatever...its their gear. PWI makes people lvl to fast...and thats the only reason why people getting rich and grind their *** off on TT, cube, event, molds. I remember when those big facts had req. lvl60+ and now its lvl90+...and i see ppl getting richer and greedier since BH started along with tokens etc (i just blame ur ****ty tokens). It has nothing to do with bots (which actually dont excist on our servers)..its all PWIs fault and they push it on loyal players.

The reason why big facts will get weak for a few is cause some of you really think that this change is profitable and attack at same time....but in longterm it wont change anything at all, cause they will stay overpowered.

sorry for my bad english ppl

...i dont want to say it..but i told you so..

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

Meow.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

FallenSnow - Raging Tide wrote: »

...i dont want to say it..but i told you so..

How does that make anything he said invalid?

*shrug*

Alphae - Lost City

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

How does that make anything he said invalid?

*shrug*

I think the idea was that he says that the TW changes were supposed to decrease gold price, and he's saying that this screenshot shows that gold price hasn't decreased. But that's just inference, I'm frankly not sure.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Alphae - Lost City wrote: »

I think the idea was that he says that the TW changes were supposed to decrease gold price, and he's saying that this screenshot shows that gold price hasn't decreased. But that's just inference, I'm frankly not sure.

Re-read the quoted post carefully... I certainly wouldn't have worded it that way, not that his English is bad, but he's pretty much spot on with everything he says. The picture of the one-color TW map just goes to show the quote of Elapidae is correct. I was just curious why he said 'I told you so' when I don't see how that would be any sort of disagreement.

/flabergasted

Alphae - Lost City

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Re-read the quoted post carefully... I certainly wouldn't have worded it that way, not that his English is bad, but he's pretty much spot on with everything he says. The picture of the one-color TW map just goes to show the quote of Elapidae is correct. I was just curious why he said 'I told you so' when I don't see how that would be any sort of disagreement.

/flabergasted

Ah geeze, someone was looking at gold thread and this thread at the same time and combined the two -.- No he was saying that it was supposed to prevent 1 guild domination and it didn't.

idk maybe he misunderstood Elapidae or misquoted.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Alphae - Lost City wrote: »

No he was saying that it was supposed to prevent 1 guild domination and it didn't.

I didn't see where he said that, he basically just said that it would weaken the strongest factions briefly, but nothing would really change. And the strongest factions couldn't even fill 80 man parties after the changes occurred.

If all of the other factions would have stepped up and bid against the primary ruling factions the first month after the changes, maps would be a whole lot different. Except that nobody in those other factions cared either, so nothing really changed.

Alphae - Lost City

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

I didn't see where he said that, he basically just said that it would weaken the strongest factions briefly, but nothing would really change. And the strongest factions couldn't even fill 80 man parties after the changes occurred.

If all of the other factions would have stepped up and bid against the primary ruling factions the first month after the changes, maps would be a whole lot different. Except that nobody in those other factions cared either, so nothing really changed.

Well he kind of implied it, but I think he misunderstood the post he quoted and should have agreed with it when he implied disagreement.

None of the smaller factions could field 80 member teams after the changes either, because so many people dumped the game, so the playing field never really changed. Or so I have observed, casually.

Born_Free - Harshlands

...I defy the laws of this game, and CAST REVIVE ON THIS TOPIC! b:angry

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

Why beat a dead horse...just go burn some kittens for entertainment, or something.

Born_Free - Harshlands

Xarathox - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Why beat a dead horse...just go burn some kittens for entertainment, or something.

Everybody knows beating a dead horse makes it run faster. x3

Limequest - Harshlands

It's November now.... -_-

Your trial period is WAY PAST OVERDUE. b:angry

Cheze - Lost City

frankieraye wrote: »

Update:

The changes should make TW far more competitive.

The old way, once a faction holds half the map, they are making 300M coin per week, which leads to:

#1 - Poaching elite players from smaller factions who want to get in on the Coins.

#2 - Being able to either pay for charms or fake bids, both of which give them a huge advantage over a non-TW faction.

So the huge faction continues winning its battles (whether they are legit battles or fake battles), and it wins 90% of every winning bid. Legit wins give them a new source of income, and fake bid wins only cost them 10% of the bid that they themselves made (keep in mind that you don't need charms for a fake battle).

Eventually, the dominant faction has enough coins to outbid everyone for 200M coins each through fake bids. They then get back 90% of each of these 200M coin bids. The map ultimately is entirely theirs.

This is why, with the former system, PW in Malaysia and China ultimately ended up with the territory war map completely taken over and nothing anyone could do about it.


With the new rules in place, huge factions will no longer be getting enough coins from the TW system to be able to afford Charms and fake bids every week. You will no longer have to depend on a faction disbanding out of the kindness of its heart to have a diverse TW map.

Update 2

A lot of things caused inflation, including grinding, questing, DQ item vendoring, decomposing gear into Mirage Celestones and vendoring them, 10M big notes, and weekly TW income payouts. TW income is not the only culprit, but it does add about 2.4 billion coins to the economy every month, which is substantial.

We do not insist that TW income is the sole cause of inflation, but we do believe that the TW change should at least help somewhat. That point was originally brought up because, after the change was announced, these forums erupted into a supernova, and Kanto was hoping to bring up a good point that had not brought up yet. Of course, this observation was then blown way out of proportion, to the point where it seemed like TW income was taking the full blame for inflation, and this change was going to fix everything in one fell swoop.

This is not the case. It may help, but I don't expect it to single-handedly curb inflation, and I don't expect you all to believe that either.

The TW changes were made primarily to make TW more competitive, ideally to keep us from spiraling down the same path as PW-MY and PW-CN, where entire TW maps had been owned by one unstoppable force.

A reduction in inflation would merely be a welcome side effect of these changes.

Thank you all for your patience and for the good discussion here in this thread.

Yeah I know this is an old thread lol but

Here's what I have to say about both of the stated "reasons"

For the first statement that the change will make TW more competitive by reducing fake bids, large faction domination from getting extra 300m, you only stated the effects that contritube to competitiveness from the change.

However to look at the change in overall competitiveness, you also have to look at the negatives. As an analogy, if a group of 10 people are playing in a tournament against each other with an entry fee of 40 dollars for a reward of say 500 dollars for the winner, they will try very hard to win and maybe people would like to play. Now consider reducing the reward to 50 dollars. I don't know about you but I'd say that there is almost no incentive at all to participate other than simply for fun, therefore reducing the competitiveness greatly.



As for the second reason that getting rid of the 400-500mil per week from TW pay can slowly reduce inflation, I must say this reason is a completely bad excuse. Consider several inflows of coins into the game:

1. 500m per week of TW pay.
2. monster drops that gets npced. People generally farm DQ to npc. farming 200k worth of DQ per hour is probably a low estimate. While the server is running if there is on average about 50 people (also a low estimate) that is killing mobs and picking up loot at all times, That is 200k * 50 = 10m coins into the game per hour, which is about 2 Billion coins per week. Now considering there are repairs, comparing the TW pay of 500m to this amount, you can say that TW is a reasonably large amount. but now look at the next source of coins.
3. Best Luck tokens. If you pay attention to the duke shouts you will notice that there is probably on average 10 best lucks per hour that people get. this is 50m coins per hour into the game, for a weekly average of over 10 billion.

Compare the 10 billion coin source per week from Best Lucks to the 500m TW pay which is only 1/20 the amount, and you can see that the contribution to inflation caused by TW pay is not even 5% of the contribution from Best Lucks which can be altered much more easily. (for example reducing the chance of getting a best luck from 1.72 to 1.65 will have the same effect on inflation as taking away all TW pay).

so what do you guys think?

Born_Free - Harshlands

Cheze - Lost City wrote: »

As for the second reason that getting rid of the 400-500mil per week from TW pay can slowly reduce inflation, I must say this reason is a completely bad excuse. Consider several inflows of coins into the game:

1. 500m per week of TW pay.
2. monster drops that gets npced. People generally farm DQ to npc. farming 200k worth of DQ per hour is probably a low estimate. While the server is running if there is on average about 50 people (also a low estimate) that is killing mobs and picking up loot at all times, That is 200k * 50 = 10m coins into the game per hour, which is about 2 Billion coins per week. Now considering there are repairs, comparing the TW pay of 500m to this amount, you can say that TW is a reasonably large amount. but now look at the next source of coins.
3. Best Luck tokens. If you pay attention to the duke shouts you will notice that there is probably on average 10 best lucks per hour that people get. this is 50m coins per hour into the game, for a weekly average of over 10 billion.

Compare the 10 billion coin source per week from Best Lucks to the 500m TW pay which is only 1/20 the amount, and you can see that the contribution to inflation caused by TW pay is not even 5% of the contribution from Best Lucks which can be altered much more easily. (for example reducing the chance of getting a best luck from 1.72 to 1.65 will have the same effect on inflation as taking away all TW pay).

so what do you guys think?

Of course you are correct, but they're just going to ignore us. Nothing unusual about that. They said it'd be for a month, and they upped the deadline. They said it would possibly go back. Don't be surprised if we get a note from Frankie about this saying--

"Due to the success of this TW change, the changes and adjustments to this area of the game have been set as indefinate."

And the game will completely bomb, which it's dangling by a hair from doing already. They're lucky they announced this new expansion, or many people would still be leaving.

Territory Wars are a joke now. We want them returned to normal. End of story.

Darcwolf - Lost City

so, 150 pages of this and they still haven't figured out NO ONE wants mirages, and its NOT helping the economy in game..... Oh wait, they don't care, they just want you to spend more money instead of getting coins from them.