An Early GM Response to the TW Changes
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tl;dr too colourful, hurts my eyes.0
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I like the idea of multiple free teleports per hour for land holders. This would be an incentive for certain locations. Here's an amazing idea though. How about free faction teleport directly to instances such as TT, Nirvana, FBs ( save a lot for bh Abbadon/SoT ), and Lunar Glade.[SIGPIC]http://a.imageshack.us/img714/9433/testoz.jpg[/SIGPIC]
If I had a dime for every time I was wrong, I'd be broke.0 -
And for cata cleric who do not get kills etc? The people who farm and make the apo? A lot more goes into tw than PK kills.Frost/ - Dreamweaver wrote: »Hardly people dont wake up in the morning and say oh boy I'm going to teleport all over the map because its cool.
People need that End game motivation to get those cool weapons that we see pictures of and that pretty armor ,
placing a reward like reputation on the table that allows a player base to play tug of war for to gain something of great value, that takes a considerably long time to achieve but IS ACHIEVE-ABLE is whats going to keep a community together and strong.
not to mention it will increase sales, to elaborate, people trying to hurry to keep up with the said dominate factions, making said wars more competitive which is another goal of both PWI and the community, to get more rep badges, which will increase PWI's income making them happy , players will finally achieve rank 8 and a chosen few will finally hit rank 9 after much effort is exhausted, so the player base will be happy,
and TW will be fixed making the community happy .
b:pleased
And a possible Solution to keep abusers from taking to much advantage of the system that "could" be implemented,
you could have the developers talk among each other about having your actual game engine distribute reputation equal to the contribution the players put into TW, how many kills etc, much like the Nein event that would allow you guys to watch from afar hands free and have no worries what so ever b:cute
~Frost0 -
I like the idea of multiple free teleports per hour for land holders. This would be an incentive for certain locations. Here's an amazing idea though. How about free faction teleport directly to instances such as TT, Nirvana, FBs ( save a lot for bh Abbadon/SoT ), and Lunar Glade.
I've said this is previous threads and posts, this will make lands with dungeons more valuable than lvl3 lands. So in my opinion no.0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »LOL...I never said it was not doable. Trust me on that one. But you are arguing the Rep when with Rank 9 = the Rep will be the easiest thing to get by far.
The rest is FAR out of the realm for many b:bye
Rank 9 is do-able, I agree. Even farmable (proven by you I think it was). But the majority of the people don't have Rank 8 yet, so no, I don't think it's easy for everyone. Giving out reps will just make the TW system unbalanced (depending on the amount given) when smaller factions will most likely end up losing. I don't think giving out rep badges as a reward will benefit these small factions when they need a land in the first place. In the long run or the short run, the bigger factions will just get stronger.
If you do want to go alone with rep badges or whatever rewards (I like the apoth idea btw), I think changing the TW system one step further would help. Add more time slots. What I mean is instead of just limiting to 3 factions to attack one faction at a time, just increase it to 5, 6 or more. I think this is fair for smaller factions and gives a bigger challenge to the powered factions. This can even make TW a lot more fun when you see many other factions, small and big, going at each other. Giving other factions a better odd to win or even a chance to win I think is a better incentive.0 -
Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »And for cata cleric who do not get kills etc? The people who farm and make the apo? A lot more goes into tw than PK kills.
So think in terms of PQ, clerics getting points for healing, melee classes get points for killing, everyone in the class system has a roll, points could be distributed in several different ways, making the margin for fairness equal what do you think b:cute?0 -
First of all, this suggestion is UNtimely. It seems that an agreement was decided before we saw this suggested change. Secondly, this will cause several unwanted events:
1. Loss of gold in more ways than one.
2. Disinterest in even trying to build a quality character thru game play.
3. Feelings of discrimination against the GM who (hastily) thought this is a good idea.
4. Eventual loss of income at server site and possible loss of jobs
5. Even more eventual loss of players coming to the server because of this reputation inclusion idea for only one large faction.
If it were MY programming shop and I had to respond to players, I would make them wait until my supervisor saw these posts and pass the RESULTS of player input on to the developers. To institute a change like this could have negative consequeces because NOT all players are under 30 years of age and MANY of those players are watching these posts as we text to determine the level of maturity at the decision makers level.
Friendly warning: Do you want to lose the player base you have because of a hasty, ill-thought suggestion, or do you want to continue to build a quality game. It is as simple as that.
Good Luck and tolet you know, there are already OVER 500 cash players ( angry btw) who are watching the outcome of this post.
BTW: The UNEMPLOYMENT office is just down the street.0 -
Sure, Do that, but only if they agree to make it so endless amount of factions can bid and attack a current land. Make it so that as many factions bid and that a faction would have to defend up to 20 factions of in 1 hour. Other than that, they don't deserver to be given rank 9 and rank 8 for being able to hold land off from factions that barely have TT 90 gear. Only a few factions have a significant amount of people with TT 90 gear or better.Frost/ - Dreamweaver wrote: »Hardly people dont wake up in the morning and say oh boy I'm going to teleport all over the map because its cool.
People need that End game motivation to get those cool weapons that we see pictures of and that pretty armor ,
placing a reward like reputation on the table that allows a player base to play tug of war for to gain something of great value, that takes a considerably long time to achieve but IS ACHIEVE-ABLE is whats going to keep a community together and strong.
not to mention it will increase sales, to elaborate, people trying to hurry to keep up with the said dominate factions, making said wars more competitive which is another goal of both PWI and the community, to get more rep badges, which will increase PWI's income making them happy , players will finally achieve rank 8 and a chosen few will finally hit rank 9 after much effort is exhausted, so the player base will be happy,
and TW will be fixed making the community happy .
b:pleased
And a possible Solution to keep abusers from taking to much advantage of the system that "could" be implemented,
you could have the developers talk among each other about having your actual game engine distribute reputation equal to the contribution the players put into TW, how many kills etc, much like the Nein event that would allow you guys to watch from afar hands free and have no worries what so ever b:cute
~Frost[SIGPIC]http://a.imageshack.us/img714/9433/testoz.jpg[/SIGPIC]
If I had a dime for every time I was wrong, I'd be broke.0 -
Frost/ - Dreamweaver wrote: »So think in terms of PQ, clerics getting points for healing, melee classes get points for killing, everyone in the class system has a roll, points could be distributed in several different ways, making the margin for fairness equal what do you think b:cute?
How would you factor in people who are farming apoc?0 -
I wonder what kind of job an ex-gm of a game company could have, considering other game companies wouldn't want them. Hmm..........think about it.Drakanson - Sanctuary wrote: »First of all, this suggestion is UNtimely. It seems that an agreement was decided before we saw this suggested change. Secondly, this will cause several unwanted events:
1. Loss of gold in more ways than one.
2. Disinterest in even trying to build a quality character thru game play.
3. Feelings of discrimination against the GM who (hastily) thought this is a good idea.
4. Eventual loss of income at server site and possible loss of jobs
5. Even more eventual loss of players coming to the server because of this reputation inclusion idea for only one large faction.
If it were MY programming shop and I had to respond to players, I would make them wait until my supervisor saw these posts and pass the RESULTS of player input on to the developers. To institute a change like this could have negative consequeces because NOT all players are under 30 years of age and MANY of those players are watching these posts as we text to determine the level of maturity at the decision makers level.
Friendly warning: Do you want to lose the player base you have because of a hasty, ill-thought suggestion, or do you want to continue to build a quality game. It is as simple as that.
Good Luck and tolet you know, there are already OVER 500 cash players ( angry btw) who are watching the outcome of this post.
BTW: The UNEMPLOYMENT office is just down the street.
[SIGPIC]http://a.imageshack.us/img714/9433/testoz.jpg[/SIGPIC]
If I had a dime for every time I was wrong, I'd be broke.0 -
Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »Sure, Do that, but only if they agree to make it so endless amount of factions can bid and attack a current land. Make it so that as many factions bid and that a faction would have to defend up to 20 factions of in 1 hour. Other than that, they don't deserver to be given rank 9 and rank 8 for being able to hold land off from factions that barely have TT 90 gear. Only a few factions have a significant amount of people with TT 90 gear or better.
Thinking in terms of PQ and Nein event combined in TW fashion , it could work, contribution isn't based on what your wearing but how much you contribute, you could run in with level 10 swords and still do something to a degree0 -
Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »How would you factor in people who are farming apoc?
Considering its not factoring in with the territory WAR it wouldn't be of much factor.0 -
DrAgOOnZ - Dreamweaver wrote: »Add more time slots. What I mean is instead of just limiting to 3 factions to attack one faction at a time, just increase it to 5, 6 or more. I think this is fair for smaller factions and gives a bigger challenge to the powered factions. This can even make TW a lot more fun when you see many other factions, small and big, going at each other. Giving other factions a better odd to win or even a chance to win I think is a better incentive.
i kinda like this idea. it'll give small factions a better chance to win and i'm sure more fun for big factions instead of steam rolling in 15minutes.0 -
DrAgOOnZ - Dreamweaver wrote: »What I mean is instead of just limiting to 3 factions to attack one faction at a time, just increase it to 5, 6 or more. I think this is fair for smaller factions and gives a bigger challenge to the powered factions. This can even make TW a lot more fun when you see many other factions, small and big, going at each other. Giving other factions a better odd to win or even a chance to win I think is a better incentive.
I said that too.... been ignored again b:shockedBoogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »Map reset + remove max 3 attacks at once will make sure 'big' factions cannot own too many lands. Also, re-roll the bidding changes to encourage smaller factions to bid.0 -
Apoc is a major factor in TW. Any faction who knows what they are doing have some kind of apoc program.Frost/ - Dreamweaver wrote: »Considering its not factoring in with the territory WAR it wouldn't be of much factor.0 -
Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »Sure, Do that, but only if they agree to make it so endless amount of factions can bid and attack a current land. Make it so that as many factions bid and that a faction would have to defend up to 20 factions of in 1 hour. Other than that, they don't deserver to be given rank 9 and rank 8 for being able to hold land off from factions that barely have TT 90 gear. Only a few factions have a significant amount of people with TT 90 gear or better.
I think you are missing the point that they were also once at this level of wearing TT90 and such and have taken the time/effort/spending(time and money) to get past this point and now are lookiing to do TW to get better rewards otherwise all this time/effort/spending is completely pointless and wasted. You're basically saying land shouldn't give any rewards, so then what is the point of TW? I do like the idea of more than 3 wars per hour on one faction though, but the players in these dominant factions shouldn't be shorted just because everyone is not on their level. Everyone else should just work harder to get to their level.Push me,
And then just touch me.
Tilll I get my,
Satisfaction.0 -
Frost/ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
we the players see this solution as the stripping away of a difficult but well earned REWARD that is worthy of throwing real cash at, most people who enter TW want to be extremely COMPETITIVE, the serious ones that is,
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but what reason is there to be competitive over something that has no reward worthy of such straining endeavors ~ answer is simple ~ there is no reason ~ it takes away the reason to strive for that shiny armor, or that cool weapon, it takes away any reason to set an objective for a purpose that no longer exists, and above all else...
it takes away the will players and the community has to work together for a difficult task.
_________________________________________________________________________
Games like this one exceed there time by keeping a community curious and excited and happy, take away the simple pleasures and your left with cracks in the foundation that holds up what was once strong.
Solution: I believe you had the right idea introducing RANK 9 into the equation, now you just need to make RANK 8 more attainable - its already been said once in this topic,
" Allow the reward of TW to be distributed Rep points " <
In the form of contribution, combine the concepts of PQ and Nein event as a possible fix
Transform what you had to begin with and mold it into a reason for players to strive for something great - RANK 9, this will not only encourage people to spend more, it'll draw pride from victories in TW's and vast amounts of wars for people trying to acquire the unattainable, you'll be set.
its a difficult task but it would be sought after indefinately, by many and achieved by few.
The real END game goal is to achieve something few have, something difficult, TW could be your way of making a challenge that isn't based on a boss's strength, or some dungeon, but a players commitment to long hours on the game, when players feel accomplished and others see that others stay to achieve the same and fight harder for it.
I believe using the game engine you have right now you could possibly adjust it to raffle factions into a mix that would allow for the competition your looking for, it'd bring factions that have never known each other in TW together, and since it would be based on contribution there would be no sore losers, just greater victories ~0 -
TW without incentive = fail. See the other 10000 posts.0
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Remove max attacks on lands and adding rep as a reward on lands is fine.
Dont remove max attacks on lands then do not add rep.
If you are not prepared to remove the max attacks then its time for a new suggestion as rewards something lesser then rep that is.0 -
Susamajii - Lost City wrote: »This was my idea I believe or at least several of us chatting in vent. This should definitely get a serious look into, I mean you are giving out an item that requires rep to use, so giving out rep with the item is a HUGE incentive to do TW.
I like the idea of giving reputation (in some form) as a reward for TW. To be honest, for me (and I think for most people), the rank 9 medals are about as worthless as the mirage stones. Maybe even more worthless. There's just no realistic way I, or anyone in our faction, is going to be getting enough reputation to do anything useful with them. I don't think we even have anyone with Rank 8 anymore.
Snide remark: Actually putting Rank 9 gear into the game might also be a good idea.
Having said all that, I still don't really buy into the premise that the coin rewards were the problem. I do think the TW system leads to a map that's dominated by 1 or 2 factions, and I've often complained about that, but it's not the coins that do it. There are really 2 major contributing factors, IMHO.
1) The addition of packs, the destruction of the economy, and the overpowered gear that comes with it has really widened the gap between big cash shoppers and free players. When Conquerer took over the map on Lost City, that was done largely by excelling at PvE, farming their gear, and cash shopping minimally in order to compete with the bigger cash shoppers. That will never happen again, certainly not without some major repairs to the economy, and that doesn't mean removing TW pay.
2) Limiting the number of simultaneous wars to 3 makes it much easier for the dominant faction to survive. As long as they can win 2 out of 3, their worst case scenario is a stalemate. Even if they lose 2 out of 3, one of the "winners" will likely be attacked the following week, losing their land. That means your triple attack is made up of: 1 faction that is slowly gaining land, 1 faction that holds 1 land and then loses it again, and 1 faction that is just wasting its money martyring itself to help the others. That's difficult to sustain. Eventually the attackers give up and the dominant faction recovers.
Solutions: Remove packs, at least some of the time. Reduce the odds of hitting the jackpot in the packs, thus decreasing their perceived value. Allow an unlimited number of simultaneous attacks in TW. Allow the bidder to choose the time of his attack (within the prearranged slots, but let the attacker choose Fri / Sat / Sun and morning / afternoon / night).0 -
Susamajii - Lost City wrote: »I told him this idea in vent
I didn't know I'd ever talked to you in vent Susa.. b:shocked
Pretty sure I came up with it but that doesn't matter, as it seems we're all on the same page pretty much, and it's good that we've got some constructive ideas going.
I think PWE should ask and listen to the leaders of the guilds that own the most land now and make the change based on what they think. If it were my game I would have asked them first before any changes were ever implemented. Talk to the people that make the game what it is... After all they did work hard to get that land with the old system.
I still say change it back to the way it was before the patch. Right before this patch, I had just gotten used to the fact that my guild of noobs was never going to be able to go to TW... I knew I'd have to join a larger guild just to get the experience... and even though I love my guild of noobs dearly, I was fine with that.
Now for the 2 year anniversary, why don't we just reset the whole server back to Age of Spirits? If the game were still like that, I'd play for years. The problem now is my confidence in the stability of the game has been destroyed, now I'm always thinking "what will they change next??"0 -
Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »I didn't know I'd ever talked to you in vent Susa.. b:shocked
Pretty sure I came up with it but that doesn't matter, as it seems we're all on the same page pretty much, and it's good that we've got some constructive ideas going.
I think PWE should ask and listen to the leaders of the guilds that own the most land now and make the change based on what they think. If it were my game I would have asked them first before any changes were ever implemented. Talk to the people that make the game what it is... After all they did work hard to get that land with the old system.
I still say change it back to the way it was before the patch. Right before this patch, I had just gotten used to the fact that my guild of noobs was never going to be able to go to TW... I knew I'd have to join a larger guild just to get the experience... and even though I love my guild of noobs dearly, I was fine with that.
Now for the 2 year anniversary, why don't we just reset the whole server back to Age of Spirits? If the game were still like that, I'd play for years. The problem now is my confidence in the stability of the game has been destroyed, now I'm always thinking "what will they change next??"
LOL yes let us all bow down before the land owning gods and have them make the decisions.0 -
Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »LOL yes let us all bow down before the land owning gods and have them make the decisions.
TBH...you have been negative at just about every suggestion.
What do you suggest and why?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
I think the system they put in now is fine. BTW I'm in a faction that owns second largest amount of land.RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »TBH...you have been negative at just about every suggestion.
What do you suggest and why?0 -
Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »I think the system they put in now is fine. BTW I'm in a faction that owns second largest amount of land.
So you didn't like it before?
And what about the new system do you like?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
I like everything about the new TW system, anonymous bidding, TW is fun for me even without pay, it lvls the playing field for up and coming factions. Min bid is now 100k.
And I wasn't negative about everything, I thought that fac tele should be able to be used more than once an hour. That would be an upgrade.0 -
Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »I like everything about the new TW system, anonymous bidding, TW is fun for me even without pay, it lvls the playing field for up and coming factions. Min bid is now 100k.
And I wasn't negative about everything, I thought that fac tele should be able to be used more than once an hour. That would be an upgrade.
See, I can see the new system both ways. However, I am in the belief that this new system has given smaller factions less of an incentive in even attempting to compete in TW. Why would they want too?
I just do not see your logic in thinking that it levels the playing field for up-in-coming factions...maybe it is a server thing.
And the faction tele thing = meh to me. I use telestones or teleport. *shrugs* MAYBE 1-2 times a week I will use faction tele. Not exactly a win imo...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
Everyone keeps saying "why would a faction TW for mirages?", but I paid attention and factions are still bidding as normal and vying for lands. Seriously until large factions actually abandon lands because it is no longer worth it, there is not an argument there either. So until one of the 2 happens I don;t think they should up and change the system again. Competition and winning is its own reward.0
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Raging Tide's QQme vs. Leviathan wars went from being 2 wars a week both lasting 3 hours, to 2 wars a week both ending in under 20 minutes. Why? Because everyone is uncharmed, save a few of the more well known cash shoppers.Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »Everyone keeps saying "why would a faction TW for mirages?", but I paid attention and factions are still bidding as normal and vying for lands. Seriously until large factions actually abandon lands because it is no longer worth it, there is not an argument there either. So until one of the 2 happens I don;t think they should up and change the system again. Competition and winning is its own reward.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »Everyone keeps saying "why would a faction TW for mirages?", but I paid attention and factions are still bidding as normal and vying for lands. Seriously until large factions actually abandon lands because it is no longer worth it, there is not an argument there either. So until one of the 2 happens I don;t think they should up and change the system again. Competition and winning is its own reward.
Um ... as others have pointed out, on Lost City there are only 3 wars this weekend. That's 1/2 or perhaps 1/3 of what we've been having. Supposedly the goal is to make TW interesting and affordable for smaller guilds who have previously felt locked out. On Lost City, not one new faction bid this week who hadn't bid the previous week. Furthermore the 2nd or 3rd strongest faction on the server -- a faction that I think has had a war every week since I started playing over 15 months ago -- has suddenly ceased attacking.
So maybe Dreamweaver is different, but on Lost City both of your 2 things have already started happening. I don't expect it to change next week.0
![http://a.imageshack.us/img714/9433/testoz.jpg[/SIGPIC]](http://a.imageshack.us/img714/9433/testoz.jpg[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
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