An Early GM Response to the TW Changes

dogm

TW discussion.

Things I think are ok:
Reducing the reward in coins. Holding land still has other benefits like apoth, refining, free tele, cool factor of 'Held by <insert guild name>'. Cutting back to 15% for tier 3 may be a bit much though.

Anyway ,the things that lead me to post here are things I don't like.
It's the fact guilds bid a lot of coin to have some fun and see their investment evaporate literally with zero to show for it.
And no chance to 'go for plan B' and get a TW opportunity by bidding on another land if first option has gone out of reach funding wise.

Imo if a guild does not get what they bid for, the bidding offer should be returned.
To be used for another option / fun stuff.

Frost/ - Dreamweaver19

Elayne - Lost City wrote: »

So, you are punishing the factions that do well at TW because you as the GMs are not controlling people who fake bid? If you banned and properly punished the factions who were fake bidding, like the GMs said they would back when Lost City started, then you wouldn't need to change the TW system to 'fix' that problem. Furthermore, if you looked at the history on Lost City you would realize that Conqueror and Essence have never once used a fake bid to control its TW position. The wrong doings of another server should not be used to punish us.

I will agree that a larger guild owning more land is likely to attract more players, however, if they don't then those players would remain in smaller factions who are unable to TW against the bigger, more powerful factions regardless of what TW system you have in place. Also, if you look at the current bidding on the Lost City server it has gone down since your patch. Smaller guilds are not attracted to bidding on a land that will cost them a lot of money and resources without the chance at a good reward. 150 mirages is not an incentive to have them bid. You are destroying TW, not encouraging it.

Furthermore, while it is true that a larger land owning faction attracts more players, their competition also attract equal numbers of new recruits looking to take that faction down. Your recent patch has removed their drive to do that as there is little to no reward for them to compete against us.

When will you act on the damage you are causing the game rather than continue to spout "give it a chance", "learn from the other servers" when the PWI community is different than those servers and does not have the same history that those servers have. Furthermore, the dominate factions in this game are mainly made up of the larger cash-shopping players and are not as adversely affected by the TW income that they receive. You are killing the smaller factions here not the big ones.

These changes are not making TW more competitive, they are making it worse and making it less appealing to everyone big and small alike. Your "fix" for fake bidding doesn't work; it makes it easier to fake bid and get away with it. Your reward system for TW is broken and doesn't provide people incentive to do. You are destroying the main reason people play this game. Like I've said in my previous posts you should start listening to the community and those of us who have been around a long time, rather than towing the company line that comes from Developers who have no clue what goes on, on these servers. WE ARE NOT PW China or PW Malaysia nor will we ever be. Conqueror took over the map and Conqueror gave it back to promote more TW's for smaller factions than your changes to the TW system ever will. A larger faction (or sometimes 2) will always emerge to take over the map...that's the point of the game.

+1 to the quote
________________________________________________________________________
To summarize my view of your side / meaning "Frankies post that Elayne quoted": You see taking TW pay away in hopes of restoring some ingame economy problems as a solution.
________________________________________________________________________
we the players see this solution as the stripping away of a difficult but well earned REWARD that is worthy of throwing real cash at, most people who enter TW want to be extremely COMPETITIVE, the serious ones that is,
________________________________________________________________________
but what reason is there to be competitive over something that has no reward worthy of such straining endeavors ~ answer is simple ~ there is no reason ~ it takes away the reason to strive for that shiny armor, or that cool weapon, it takes away any reason to set an objective for a purpose that no longer exists, and above all else...

it takes away the will players and the community has to work together for a difficult task.
_________________________________________________________________________
Games like this one exceed there time by keeping a community curious and excited and happy, take away the simple pleasures and your left with cracks in the foundation that holds up what was once strong.

Solution: I believe you had the right idea introducing RANK 9 into the equation, now you just need to make RANK 8 more attainable - its already been said once in this topic,

" Allow the reward of TW to be distributed Rep points " <

---

Transform what you had to begin with and mold it into a reason for players to strive for something great - RANK 9, this will not only encourage people to spend more, it'll draw pride from victories in TW's and vast amounts of wars for people trying to acquire the unattainable, you'll be set.

its a difficult task but it would be sought after indefinately, by many and achieved by few.


my 2 cents.
~Frost

Conavar - Heavens Tear

Well looks like there is two fake bids on HT this week ( hard to tell now since cant see refund to judge guild size, but two factions no one has heard of )

So I hope the Gm's put their money where their mouth is and investigate and ban people .. and that includes finding out the main char's.

They need to start acting on what they preach and not respond with the same old " Submit a ticket " line .. Do your jobs that you are paid for and dont expect the players to do it for you.

MsEvilness - Heavens Tear

Putting min bids at 100k now just encourages more fake bids, the opposite of wat this patch supposedly intends to do. It just means these fake bids are on lands which would not otherwise have been bidded on; however they can still influence TW timeslots and groupings.

Clearly it's another case of GMs making things up but any informed person can see it's all just 1 big excuse.

JiEunxD - Archosaur

Well, being in Archosaur server, the big guilds (Which are all at a very bad state, as in even a director of the most powerful guild in the server would leave to make a new guild) have now decided to work together, but here's the problem now:
What the hell are you training for to do at endgame?

TW is now meaningless to the entire game because there's no important status symbol or rivalry that is going to happen. So yeah, it did make the bigger guilds collapse, but why is that a good thing necessarily? It just made everything boring...

So yes, some things were achieved, like preventing 1 guild from taking the entire map, but now the point of reaching endgame is utterly destroyed...

Edit: +1 to frost's post.

TheBishSlap - Lost City

just thought id put this up here seems to "fit" the situation
Perfect World Entertainment Inc.

2200 Bridge Pkwy Ste 201, Redwood City, CA 94065
(650) 590-7707

and

Perfect World Entertainment Inc.

1001 E Hillsdale Blvd, Foster City, CA 94404
(650) 591-1211

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear

TheBishSlap - Lost City wrote: »

just thought id put this up here seems to "fit" the situation
Perfect World Entertainment Inc.

2200 Bridge Pkwy Ste 201, Redwood City, CA 94065
(650) 590-7707

and

Perfect World Entertainment Inc.

1001 E Hillsdale Blvd, Foster City, CA 94404
(650) 591-1211

It's not like that stuff is private though.

Or should we all go over there and discuss all this over a cup of tea?b:chuckle

TidaI - Lost City

@Eoria - Harshlands

I'm sorry but you're COMPLETELY WRONG here, for the simplest reasons. Firstly just so you can relate to my thoughts I came from the Oracle server long ago, before the huge merger. Since you seem to know SO MUCH about the Malaysion servers let me remind you, WARLORD and Immortals dominated their own respective servers since the beginning of the servers. I can't say for sure about Immortal's but WARLORD dominated the server right off the bat through various methods such as botting, hacking, rampant fake bidding and numerous other things before packs were even released. And anyone who's played on Oracle server knew this about WARLORD because GM's DID NOT DO ****.

Week after bloody week you saw the same bloody message "Warlord has bid ______ coins on WARLORD's teritory of ____ " *pause to 1 min later* "WarLord has bid ______ coins on WARLORD's teritory of ____ "

The only reason there was max inflation was because that server was pretty much broken down and taken over from the start hence at one point gold was selling at bloody 50k~80k max alright. And you're forgetting the cultural differences of these games in Malaysia, pw has its on set of sponsors and etc with open challenges and everything, PWI IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like the Malaysion server ot the Chinese servers alright. PWI servers didn't ahve someone like WARLORD running the show right off the bat, instead we had decent guilds and fair tw's by factions such as Conqueror, BloodLusT, UnLimited, RageQuit. At no point was there rampant fake bidding by any one of these guild's so that no other guild at all could afford to bid. And as for your love of the GM's on PWI, you can seriously cram it and stop being a suck up, the only ones screaming endlessly at the GM's are idiots I'll admit, but for the most part people are giving constuctive criticism as well and are rightfully frustrated for the PR Department's bullshyt they're getting forcefed down their throats. The GM's here might actually reply to a thread but from what I recall from the Oracle server, getting a reply wasn't hard, it was getting something done that was impossible. Which seems to be the obvious case here.

TheBishSlap - Lost City

no but ive read this entire post (sad i know) and more than a few people said they wanted to go directly to the devs.
so i thought itd be funny to point out what people are to lazy to look for

Takumeme - Dreamweaver

Guys, everything we do that adds coin into the system DOES contribute to inflation, just not as noticeable as the 10mil big note, just saying b:bye

Marmut - Heavens Tear

Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »

Or how about an exponential down curve based on the number of lands you own? That would give everyone a lot of incentive to get one land, the first land(s) would give the most reward and drop off from there. No rewards past 23 lands, so no one would have any incentive to take all the lands... By playing around with this math, you could have the server any number of colors you want.

I think this is a real good idea, keeping the incentive to TW yet reduces the advantage of owning multiple lands.

Mraochan - Lost City

Marmut - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I think this is a real good idea, keeping the incentive to TW yet reduces the advantage of owning multiple lands.

Thanks... I saw one other person that thought it was a good idea and honestly I expected to get flamed. Please flame away, I'm curious to hear what others think about this...

The truth is - even this is a compromise, I fail to see what was wrong with the old system, and I wish they'd change it all back, including the UI.

Regardless of this "reward curve" I proposed, I'm not going to TW for mirages, so I think the reward should be carefully thought out/better/more valuable/something, if it MUST change...

Chovan - Harshlands

It's no good coming up with alternatives PWI/PWE don't care, they are a business out to make money not to make an enjoyable playable game.

I thought we all understood this as now it's more evident than ever before.

Basically if we don't like it play something else, that's the message they give us.

PW in China caused the lowering of DQ items, so, easy, don't appy the change to us, instead they promise something that never comes.

They moan about inflation yet EVERY PLAYER knows it's PWI packs that causes this, but they don't care they are a business out to make money.

Anything you suggest unless it benefits them will likely fall on deaf ears and even if they do promise something they are not the developers of PWI. It would most likely have to go through so much red tape it would probably not get done.

It's a shame cso PWI has been totally wrecked with these changes.

drjiggle

MsEvilness - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Putting min bids at 100k now

Lest this slip by unnoticed, allow me to ask, is this accurate? Did the minimum bid drop to 100k? I've been asking about this for a week and haven't seen any sort of response. If it's true ...

Glass half full: This could be a positive change that could actually encourage smaller factions to get into TW. As you mentioned, coupled with all the other changes it still has problems, but taken in isolation, it's a good step. It's a small step but a step nonetheless.

Glass half empty: As I mentioned, I've been asking about this all week. Either the GM's were trying to sneak this past us (I doubt it) or they legitimately weren't aware of it (more likely). Either way, that's bad, isn't it? Shouldn't the GM's know about or be made aware of changes when a major patch is rolled out? Is it really acceptable that we have to just experiment to figure out how the game works?

LexSanada - Sanctuary

I'm just gonna reiterate exactly what I said in the previous topic on this dumb TW Pay Nerfing.

If they really want to reduce the massive influx of coin going coming from TW then this strategy may work. Instead of feeding factions cash for every land they own at the end of the week, give them the pay out of lands they had to attack/defend. This way, the territories they own won't just be constantly feeding them cash and in order to make any cash out of TW, they will have to work for it. This would also appease the ones saying that TW funds their charms because they aren't technically losing any cash. In fact, they are gaining the same amount. However, this would reduce the income of the factions that hold a massive amount of land while still providing them the funds they need to support themselves and their individual players.

Now, I'm not a TW pro. In fact, I just started TW maybe last week, so I just participated in my 2nd TW. I haven't seen cent 1 from it and I'm ok with that. I wasn't expecting it to pay me. I was prepared to take the hit from TW. I joined for the experience of it all. However, this does seem like a more plausible idea versus a complete shut-off on funds to everyone.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

Don't forget, the factions that owns alot of land and farms money from it worked very hard to obtain and then keep them in the first place. It's only fair that they now get some of it back.

Os_city - Harshlands

we should just boycott all tw bids on all servers and c how gms and entire pwe react coz they cant shut all of servers and ban all the ppl for enjoying what was once the most interesting part of the game b:surrender

Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver

Os_city - Harshlands wrote: »

we should just boycott all tw bids on all servers and c how gms and entire pwe react coz they cant shut all of servers and ban all the ppl for enjoying what was once the most interesting part of the game b:surrender

Better yet, boycott gold buying. If we stop buying gold as well as boycott TW bids, they won't be getting any money, and maybe then they'll get the hint. They don't seem to be caring much unless we start kidnapping devs and tying them to train tracks.

Chasee - Archosaur

Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Better yet, boycott gold buying. If we stop buying gold as well as boycott TW bids, they won't be getting any money, and maybe then they'll get the hint. They don't seem to be caring much unless we start kidnapping devs and tying them to train tracks.

Totally agree if we don't buy GOLD they will think twice before doing bulls*** at inflation

frankieraye

Elayne - Lost City wrote: »

This change won't do anything when the packs bring more income a day than TW does in a week. You will NEVER fix inflation as long as packs and 10mil big notes exist from Best Luck Tokens.

You have taken away the incentive to do TW. We are not upset about the loss of coins so much as we are upset about the fact that Mirage Stones are NOT AN INCENTIVE FOR ANYONE TO DO TW. Therefore, it will not matter what your intentions are for TW no one will bid except those who want to own the map which are the really big factions.

Why don't you give us a good reward like 50 Wraith Officer Badges for a Level 3 Land, 100 for a Level 2 land and 150 for a Level 1 Land. That way you can couple them the Medal of Glory and use it to make Rank gear. This would give people a reason to TW again without injecting coins into the economy.

But stop insulting the community. Stop spouting lines from the PR department and start looking at what the community of PWI is telling you. We want a reason to do TW, something that sets us above the other factions, not a reward that isn't worth the mail you send it in. This would promote people to do TW.

Just a thought. I think the money was a good reward and the system wasn't broken, but if you're determined to change it then change it to something that makes sense. Do not change it to something that simply insults the PWI player base and treat us like we're stupid and won't see through the lies. Your PR department is doing a terrible job right now. Start listening.

On a side note, I do appreciate the fact that you are taking the time to reply so that this is more than a 1 sided conversation.

I think awarding Wraith Officer Badges is an interesting suggestion, and something I can propose to the Devs. What are some other non-coin rewards that you guys think might work?

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

50 officers badge? How do you share that around lol? Make it at least worthwhile, or give implement stackable badges or whatever that gives 1 rep each so you can distribute it.

@Frankie, event card, tokens of luck, shard boxes [contains random shards g5-g9] and ecstasy cards :P

frankieraye

X_Diogenes_x - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hi, my previous post in the now closed TW Discussion thread went unanswered so just reposting here. I haven't seen an official response about this yet so if I've missed it, could someone pls post the link? Thanks

So are bids meant to be secret and the fact that they're being announced (but still anonymous) a bug? Or is this how it was intended to be all along?

Would like some clarification on this please so that we don't come to expect a fix for it if this is how it should be.

The bidding system is working as intended; the bids are meant to be anonymous, not secret, and I apologize for the mix-up.

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Are you guys insane? Rep and ecstacy cards for TW lands etc? NO The TW system is fine... stop being spoiled cry babies. BTW ecstacy cards go against the reason they stated for TW changes.

RedsRose - Lost City

frankieraye wrote: »

I think awarding Wraith Officer Badges is an interesting suggestion, and something I can propose to the Devs. What are some other non-coin rewards that you guys think might work?

We were all talking about this in vent last night when Elayne suggested it and about all of us thought that it was a fantastic idea!

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Are you guys insane? Rep and ecstacy cards for TW lands etc? NO The TW system is fine... stop being spoiled cry babies. BTW ecstacy cards go against the reason they stated for TW changes.

Think about it...Rep would take ALL MONEY out of the TW system...isn't that what ppl are pissed about? Besides, at least rep is worth something...Mirages are not and get NPC'd the second they end up in the Leader's inbox.

The cards can be gotten from 100BH's and the event = No Different.

<-- Neutral party here but I would rather have rep then mirages or coins.

frankieraye wrote: »

The bidding system is working as intended; the bids are meant to be anonymous, not secret, and I apologize for the mix-up.

Can you not see how this would make it easier to Fake bid?

Just wondering...

DrAgOOnZ - Dreamweaver

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

We were all talking about this in vent last night when Elayne suggested it and about all of us thought that it was a fantastic idea!




Think about it...Rep would take ALL MONEY out of the TW system...isn't that what ppl are pissed about? Besides, at least rep is worth something...Mirages are not and get NPC'd the second they end up in the Leader's inbox.

The cards can be gotten from 100BH's and the event = No Different.



<-- Neutral party here but I would rather have rep then mirages or coins.

Bad idea. Think about the big factions with the most lands. Giving them all rep badges allows everyone to obtain rank 8 so easily. How will those smaller faction trying to fight them in TW be fair going up against everyone that is rank 8 or above?

Susamajii - Lost City

Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »

I like this idea.

Or how about an exponential down curve based on the number of lands you own? That would give everyone a lot of incentive to get one land, the first land(s) would give the most reward and drop off from there. No rewards past 23 lands, so no one would have any incentive to take all the lands... By playing around with this math, you could have the server any number of colors you want.

I told him this idea in vent

RedsRose - Lost City

DrAgOOnZ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Bad idea. Think about the big factions with the most lands. Giving them all rep badges allows everyone to obtain rank 8 so easily. How will those smaller faction trying to fight them in TW be fair going up against everyone that is rank 8 or above?

It is not even Rank 8 now...with Rank 9 coming out, it would be better for a system such as this.

And have you even thought about the distribution of a set # of Rep badges divided between 80 people? O.o

It is not like people would hit Rank 8 over night...hell it is like many things, you could farm it faster.

Keep in mind too NOT all ideas people will like, but the majority here seem to think that the Mirage system is a complete joke. At least Rep would give something for people to work for...a goal...no goal = why are you playing? It is something...

If you do not like the idea of Rep, what would you suggest? Like frankie asked...A non-coin reward for the Land Holding Guilds....

Susamajii - Lost City wrote: »

I told him this idea in vent

Liar...b:cute

Aubree - Dreamweaver

The mirage system at least pays for some of the costs of the lands you have to defend. Building towers in lowest lvl land by itself is 1.4 mill.. pay for it is 1mill, it is in fact a coin sink.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

What's the difference between 1.5m and nothing? Not much. What's the difference between 10m and 1.5m? Alot.

I'd rather have reps than that 3 pathetic mirages.

Susamajii - Lost City

frankieraye wrote: »

I think awarding Wraith Officer Badges is an interesting suggestion, and something I can propose to the Devs. What are some other non-coin rewards that you guys think might work?

This was my idea I believe or at least several of us chatting in vent. This should definitely get a serious look into, I mean you are giving out an item that requires rep to use, so giving out rep with the item is a HUGE incentive to do TW.

As for other ideas you are giving out mirages already possibly tossing in some refining aids such as tienkang, tisha, or chienkun stones. Just my thoughts (inb4Elaynesaysit)