An Early GM Response to the TW Changes

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Comments

  • moxiath
    moxiath Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    this is the worst patch that has ever come across in the gaming world (next patch will be that every class only has 3 starting skills and the rest has be bought in boutique for more fair gameplay)

    TW was alot of fun, 10mil really was guud motivation to get up at 5am and with it i was able to get back costs like repair, pots, charm or whatever.

    TW now is fun coz i will get like 150 mirages from it, this means i will get only aprox18% of what i used to get when my leader distributed the money


    PLAYER question: Oooh no! how about catas and towers? How about charms and repair costs???

    PWI mod :catas and towers? wth you get 150 mirages what are you complaining about? and the charm, repair, etc cost? dont worry we are going to make it even more fair, we are going to add packs that contain tw repair hammers and a charm

    PWI player monitor: Hehhhhh? we lost 200.000 players in the last few days

    PWI mod: Guud, now i finally have some time to play *removed*;D

    PLAYER: -_- Well,,, its back to **removed** then at least they don't have patches that ruin the game
  • Kiaxn - Archosaur
    Kiaxn - Archosaur Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Im not reading 64 pages of mind numbing nonsence .. just 1 question ... why mirages .. I already have a ** load of those I never use
    Blood Red for a reason.
  • Darksylph - Heavens Tear
    Darksylph - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,816 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Kiaxn - Archosaur wrote: »
    Im not reading 64 pages of mind numbing nonsence .. just 1 question ... why mirages .. I already have a ** load of those I never use

    Because it was originally going to be sadness cards, but they felt that would be too blatant of a slap in the face.
  • Asmodiel - Heavens Tear
    Asmodiel - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,442 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Kiaxn - Archosaur wrote: »
    Im not reading 64 pages of mind numbing nonsence .. just 1 question ... why mirages .. I already have a ** load of those I never use

    the other thread contained 191 or 192 pages :p
    b:angry and yea why not warsoul frags damned...b:chuckle

    j/k

    but yea...mirages :p you get like 1/3 TW pay from BH alone :p (i think it's 50 from BH right? not too sure)
    "One of the most important factors, not only in military matters but in life as a whole, is ... the ability to direct one's whole energies towards the fulfillment of a particular task." - Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear
    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,864 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Asmodiel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    b:angry and yea why not warsoul frags damned...b:chuckle

    They're giving out badges for soon to be implemented r9 gear already, so that's actually not a half bad idea.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    moxiath wrote: »
    PLAYER: -_- Well,,, its back to runescapze then at least they don't have patches that ruin the game

    Fail. Remeber/know the update where they removed wildy pking and brought in trade limits?

    /facepalm    b:bye
  • SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear
    SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,225 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    They're giving out badges for soon to be implemented r9 gear already, so that's actually not a half bad idea.



    TBH those are pretty useless, only the 1% will qualify and only a percentage will be willing to continue dumping money to get them since the game has gone to ****, supply will most likely over shadow the real demand causing them to be near worthless.
    "Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory.
    Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." ~Sun Tzu

    "Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!"
    ~Iron Mike Tyson Enrage.omgforum.net
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Aelric - Lost City
    Aelric - Lost City Posts: 1,031 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    how do you people even have enough rep for rank 9 >.> I've always been extremely behind on rep becuz it is literally impossible to get enough to keep up with your level
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks XRipetidex for the awesome sig!
    "I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a telescope and that enables you to laugh at life's realities."
    -Dr. Seuss
    b:victory
  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Aelric - Lost City wrote: »
    how do you people even have enough rep for rank 9 >.> I've always been extremely behind on rep becuz it is literally impossible to get enough to keep up with your level

    People buy it.
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • Aelric - Lost City
    Aelric - Lost City Posts: 1,031 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    People buy it.

    true lol. i guess people buy the tags and everything? hey they should release that into the cash shop!! lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks XRipetidex for the awesome sig!
    "I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a telescope and that enables you to laugh at life's realities."
    -Dr. Seuss
    b:victory
  • drjiggle
    drjiggle Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Waiter, this isn't what I ordered.

    That's OK, this dish is delicious. I tried it once.

    But I ordered steak.

    I know, I know, but you'll like the shrimp better.

    But I'm allergic to shellfish.

    You're not allergic to these shellfish. Trust me.

    I could go into respiratory failure.

    Don't worry. If that happens, I'll get you a steak.

    b:infuriated
  • Aubree - Dreamweaver
    Aubree - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,868 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »
    It stands to reason that if guild "a" owns 50% of the land, and the other 50% is held by guilds "b", "c", "d", and "e", then guild "a" must have one or more of the following:

    1. Strongest players on the server.

    2. Highest levels on the server.

    3. Largest percentage of cashshopping players.

    Imagine if your huge business in real life didn't cater to the majority. You lose their support. Possibly have a riot on your hands. Aside from all that, it's disrespectful. When you lose the support of the majority you fail, or you're at least taking that risk. Maybe PWE sees more gain in losing the support of the majority, if that's the case then all they want to do is turn this game into a 3d chatroom with mounts and weapons and armor and gambling packs. I guess there's more money in that. **** the game when we can make more money...

    One faction of 200 people is not a majority.


    Also this is the first week of altered bidding, the changes last week came after bidding. No one then knew of the changes coming.
  • Minimus - Sanctuary
    Minimus - Sanctuary Posts: 208 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    frankieraye wrote: »
    Update:

    The changes should make TW far more competitive.

    The old way, once a faction holds half the map, they are making 300M coin per week, which leads to:

    #1 - Poaching elite players from smaller factions who want to get in on the Coins.

    #2 - Being able to either pay for charms or fake bids, both of which give them a huge advantage over a non-TW faction.

    So the huge faction continues winning its battles (whether they are legit battles or fake battles), and it wins 90% of every winning bid. Legit wins give them a new source of income, and fake bid wins only cost them 10% of the bid that they themselves made (keep in mind that you don't need charms for a fake battle).

    Eventually, the dominant faction has enough coins to outbid everyone for 200M coins each through fake bids. They then get back 90% of each of these 200M coin bids. The map ultimately is entirely theirs.

    This is why, with the former system, PW in Malaysia and China ultimately ended up with the territory war map completely taken over and nothing anyone could do about it.


    With the new rules in place, huge factions will no longer be getting enough coins from the TW system to be able to afford Charms and fake bids every week. You will no longer have to depend on a faction disbanding out of the kindness of its heart to have a diverse TW map.

    Right what u say but why taking the incentive almost completely away? What about those factions who managed to bring back TWs to thier respective servers again despite the monopoly that is engendered by the TW system? With 150 mirages I wonder who is willing to put the effort in TWs like before if the incentive is gone? Why not making a compromise for those factions who put a lot of effort and cash into this part of the game?

    Just have a look at Sanctuary server in the past few month and you see that the problem of map domination shouldn't be changed by drying out the sources for coins like this but by another TW system where the powerful factions have to fight more often and land can't be held as easily as before.

    And again like in other updates the example of PW Malaysia and China has been taken as bad example although pwi is different.

    And please don't use the irony ("out of the kindness of its heart to have a diverse TW map") above that gives players of not huge factions the impression as if all players of huge factions sit on their coin and it depends of their goodwill to have good TW. This is quite a generalisation. Some are like this, others aren't. Those who are aren't reason enough to dry out the TW pay as it happened imo.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Susamajii - Lost City wrote: »
    Did this topic die or is everyone tired of beating their face against a wall?

    Yes. And that's why they had the first thread. For everyone to get pissy, stomp their feet, give their opinions and then go away so they can lock it and let it sink away mostly forgotten.

    A lot of important statements, outrage, discussion and understanding developed there. To be forgotten for several reasons What we have left is basically the handful of people that haven't yet quit and still want to voice their opinion.

    Besides, having a 200 page post stickied at the top of the forum is bad when potential investors or stockholders might decide to stick their head in and see what's going on and what player sentiment is like. Seeing a huge stickied post of pissed off people is the last thing they want the public to see. They've done this a number of times. Annipack thread. Duke Rose exploit thread. DQ nerf thread. Probably a few others as well.

    Then they leave this thread open so they can pretend they're actually listening. I won't lie and say they don't listen... does it actually get heard though? That's different.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Asmodiel - Heavens Tear
    Asmodiel - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,442 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Listening/hearing or not....stock market doesn't lie. If they decide to ignore that too...well...that would probably the dumbest move of the company ever.
    "One of the most important factors, not only in military matters but in life as a whole, is ... the ability to direct one's whole energies towards the fulfillment of a particular task." - Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Chillum - Dreamweaver
    Chillum - Dreamweaver Posts: 887 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    As an aside, I would be interested to know what they learned from the feedback received from previous notable incidents e.g. anniversary packs.

    I don't think we ever got any feedback as to what if anything they learned from that.

    I'm guessing some of the more cynical of you would say nothing besides that they can introduce more and more cash shop packs in one shape or form. Frankly, it would be hard to argue that point.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mraochan - Lost City
    Mraochan - Lost City Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    drjiggle wrote: »
    Waiter, this isn't what I ordered.

    That's OK, this dish is delicious. I tried it once.

    But I ordered steak.

    I know, I know, but you'll like the shrimp better.

    But I'm allergic to shellfish.

    You're not allergic to these shellfish. Trust me.

    I could go into respiratory failure.

    Don't worry. If that happens, I'll get you a steak.

    b:infuriated

    I had the exact same thought cooking dinner last night, lol
  • Mraochan - Lost City
    Mraochan - Lost City Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    One faction of 200 people is not a majority.


    Also this is the first week of altered bidding, the changes last week came after bidding. No one then knew of the changes coming.

    If one faction of 200 people own 50% of the land, and the rest of the land is split between another 5 factions, then yes, they are indeed a majority - they are the land-owning majority. Don't they deserve something for that?

    I saw in another recent thread: a member of the land-owning majority faction on LC server noticed this change coming from the MY/CN servers a month ago and posted it on their website.

    The main point I wanted to make was how you shouldn't **** those people over, as you run the risk of having a riot on your hands due to their power/influence.
  • Steopie - Heavens Tear
    Steopie - Heavens Tear Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    frankieraye wrote: »
    I think awarding Wraith Officer Badges is an interesting suggestion, and something I can propose to the Devs. What are some other non-coin rewards that you guys think might work?

    I have come up with a few ideas which I think may be feasible to give in addition to / in replacement of R9 badges.

    Basically, something which is desirable and could be sold by the winning faction to make coin to send as pay, or kept within the faction to 'power up' members.

    Items such as: (some exist in the game, others are fictional ones that i just made up, yet seem reasonable and shouldn't be a problem to implement)

    TT100 'Red mats'
    Scroll of Tome
    Advanced Scroll of Tome (create a tome 1 grade higher than the current scroll of tome)
    Cube Stamp
    Advanced Cube Stamp (create a G15 or 16 cube necklace)
    Warsong Belt
    Advanced Warsong belt (G15 / 16 belt)
    Helm of Holy punishment
    H'rage boots
    Rapture Chest
    Big Rapture Chest (more rapts than normal chest)
    Canny chest
    Big Canny chest (more cannies)

    Basically.. desirable items which are sought after by fairly rich players. I feel the R9 badge is not going to be desired enough, as indications show that R9 gear will be amazingly expensive, enough so to put a lot of the current R8 people off progressing to R9.

    With desirable items like the ones listed above, a small guild may get a 300m++ pay off, to pay their members, should they wish to sell. The items are desirable and buyers wont be limited to a 'super rich 1 or 2' people per server.

    I know im about 20 pages late, sorry about that ;> b:shockedb:cuteb:bye
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Aelric - Lost City
    Aelric - Lost City Posts: 1,031 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Okay so I have been thinking about it... increase the mirage award by twice as much, so instead of 150 you get 300 (mirage prices may drop to compensate, but that also means cheaper refines!), and implement some quest or some way to make money purely in game. Could be something like collect x amount of mats and kill x amount of mobs (kinda like Dragon Quest), and you will get a money reward. It will be like a job quest, and the more you do it the better the reward could be? Or just beef up DQ rewards and increase DQ drop rate. In addition to either of these things, increase the amount of gold dropped by each mob.

    Hopefully, the price of tokens will drop with perma packs, and in response gold will drop with tokens pretty much becoming the new main currency.

    *I made these suggestions because this IS technically a FREE 2 PLAY game and there should be some way to still be able to make ample amounts of money just by hard work in game. I'm not saying to make it extremely easy to make money, kinda like TW rewards were becoming (being handed millions and billions of coin each week even for territories that didn't need to be defended), but make it possible. Also, the whole silent bidding needs to go. It does not work at all.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks XRipetidex for the awesome sig!
    "I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a telescope and that enables you to laugh at life's realities."
    -Dr. Seuss
    b:victory
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Make money = farm mats, merchant, gold trade or do TT. Don't like it? Play something else. I went from 500k to 35m in 2 months, and I don't even have a 24/7 catshop.
  • Chovan - Harshlands
    Chovan - Harshlands Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Despite all the changes you made to TW you are completely missing the point.

    YOU REMOVED THE DAMN FUN

    A leader can make 1 bid on 1 piece of land and that's it, how pray tell is that BETTER than the old system. He gets outbid and that's it no TW for us and even worse is he doesn't know he's outbid till TW bidding is done.

    I used to have a bunch of fun watching everyone bid and counter bid, that's gone too.

    We used to have several TWs a week and guess what THAT'S GONE TOO.

    I couldn't care less about the bloody rewards but hey why stop there you removed that too.

    All in the name of making people spend more RL Money.

    If you REALLY wanted to drop gold prices you'd do what EVERY SINGLE PLAYERS KNOWS and remove the stupid packs.

    You haven't made it better you made it worse in EVERY aspect. Way to go killing the last fun thing PWI had going for it.
  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I used to have a bunch of fun watching everyone bid and counter bid, that's gone too.

    VILKASS: b:sad I miss the 69696969 Regi bids b:sad As well as some other WC-system bid wars between one of the big VS a nub faction, just for lols b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Theo - Raging Tide
    Theo - Raging Tide Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Lets add to the fun?

    Replace the reward of Mirage stones awareded from TW with Lucky Coral xD see how fast things go from bad to Worse.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Monkeytoes - Sanctuary
    Monkeytoes - Sanctuary Posts: 154 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    frankieraye wrote: »
    You will no longer have to depend on a faction disbanding out of the kindness of its heart to have a diverse TW map.

    You didn't have to rely on that BEFORE the patch
    The factions of Sanctuary managed to work together and coordinate attacks against the "red" faction that held the entire map and were successful in bringing TW back from the dead there.

    The TW system in this game was horrendously broken and this patch has only put the nail in the coffin.

    Factions will no longer be able to do what Regicide, Legendary, Enelysion, RedRaiders and Amplified did on Sanctuary. Each of those factions got rolled in 5 minutes attacking alone, but when they attacked together, they were able to take down a much more powerful faction. If they had not been able to do so, the Sanctuary map would likely still be completely red. The ability to coordinate those simultaneous attacks has been removed, as have the piddly rewards. TW pay might have been a lot back in the days of 100k gold, but in the post-pack era of 400k+ gold, it wasn't even a FRACTION of what you would have spent on TW, now it is even less.

    We as players have been telling you for a long time now what was broken with the TW system and have given many valid suggestions on how to fix it. PWE listened to none of it.

    We as players have been telling you for a long time now what was broken with the in-game economy and have given many valid suggestions on how to fix it. Once again, PWE didn't listen.

    This patch has taken an already broken system and made it even worse. If PWE truly intended to fix the economy, they might have listened to their player base. This patch proved to me that PWE has no idea what goes on in-game and is completely out of touch with its player base.

    For the past few months, the only things keeping me in this game were TW and not wanting to walk away from something that I had spent a ridiculous amount of RL cash on. It certainly wasn't the content, because lets face it, there is none after lvl 90 or so. Well, Nirvana...but why bother farming Nirvana gear when you don't have anything to do once you have it? There are a great deal of 100+ players that only ever logged on for TW....now TW is essentially dead.

    I've been factionless for a few weeks now and have been on the fence in regards to leaving the game completely as there wasn't anything for me to do except TW once a week. Well, after this patch, I have no desire to even log on, let alone sink another cent into this broken game, so thank you PWI, for giving me the incentive I needed to stop spending RL cash on pixels. b:cute
  • Susamajii - Lost City
    Susamajii - Lost City Posts: 902 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »
    The main point I wanted to make was how you shouldn't **** those people over, as you run the risk of having a riot on your hands due to their power/influence.

    Exactly. I'm sure the GMs heard about what Essence did for 5 hours straight after the patch. I just hope they know they are running out of time to fix this before it happens again and doesn't stop.
    Push me,
    And then just touch me.
    Tilll I get my,
    Satisfaction.
  • Chillum - Dreamweaver
    Chillum - Dreamweaver Posts: 887 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Susamajii - Lost City wrote: »
    Exactly. I'm sure the GMs heard about what Essence did for 5 hours straight after the patch. I just hope they know they are running out of time to fix this before it happens again and doesn't stop.

    Pray tell? b:question
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Susamajii - Lost City wrote: »
    Exactly. I'm sure the GMs heard about what Essence did for 5 hours straight after the patch. I just hope they know they are running out of time to fix this before it happens again and doesn't stop.

    What did they do? Sorry I'm on Trolling Tides b:cute
  • Susamajii - Lost City
    Susamajii - Lost City Posts: 902 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »
    What did they do? Sorry I'm on Trolling Tides b:cute

    5 hours straight of killing anyone and everyone that happened to stumble out of safezone and wasn't in Essence to the major QQing of the server.
    Push me,
    And then just touch me.
    Tilll I get my,
    Satisfaction.
  • Chillum - Dreamweaver
    Chillum - Dreamweaver Posts: 887 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Susamajii - Lost City wrote: »
    5 hours straight of killing anyone and everyone that happened to stumble out of safezone and wasn't in Essence to the major QQing of the server.

    I'd say that's probably counter productive....

    ...and hi Susa b:cute
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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