An Early GM Response to the TW Changes

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »

That's true, in theory at least... But we didn't introduce "chest of coins" as a reward in cube. Chest of coins = 1mil coins / 5 gold (perfect iron hammer to open chest) = 200k for 1 gold. In addition to gold going from 100k to 200k+ overnight, it instantly rendered the chests useless as a reward... just one more thing taking up space in your bank. Or one more thing to try to sell to newbs that don't know any better.

I'm not trying to pick apart what you said or be mean or hateful, I'm just saying...

b:surrender

I understand that theory, but that isnt the first time ive seen gold inflated in pwi. The first time was when they put the duke rose set in the boutique and it had a glitched npc price. You could sell it for millions and the gold prices shot up to 700k that night, then they had an emergency update. Im not completely sure if this was before or after chest of coins, but i think it was before. Anyways, chest of coins doesnt have to dictate the gold prices. The reason the players set the gold prices at 200k at least is because they want to make a profit off of noobs who dont know any better buying hammers to open the pack. There are 2 ways to fix the chest of coin problem. 1) take them out completely, which would be the easiest thing. or 2)make an npc where you pay so much to open one chest, (say 600k-900k) and limit that to once a day.

Ignation - Lost City

Elayne - Lost City wrote: »

So, you are punishing the factions that do well at TW because you as the GMs are not controlling people who fake bid? If you banned and properly punished the factions who were fake bidding, like the GMs said they would back when Lost City started, then you wouldn't need to change the TW system to 'fix' that problem. Furthermore, if you looked at the history on Lost City you would realize that Conqueror and Essence have never once used a fake bid to control its TW position. The wrong doings of another server should not be used to punish us.

I will agree that a larger guild owning more land is likely to attract more players, however, if they don't then those players would remain in smaller factions who are unable to TW against the bigger, more powerful factions regardless of what TW system you have in place. Also, if you look at the current bidding on the Lost City server it has gone down since your patch. Smaller guilds are not attracted to bidding on a land that will cost them a lot of money and resources without the chance at a good reward. 150 mirages is not an incentive to have them bid. You are destroying TW, not encouraging it.

Furthermore, while it is true that a larger land owning faction attracts more players, their competition also attract equal numbers of new recruits looking to take that faction down. Your recent patch has removed their drive to do that as there is little to no reward for them to compete against us.

When will you act on the damage you are causing the game rather than continue to spout "give it a chance", "learn from the other servers" when the PWI community is different than those servers and does not have the same history that those servers have. Furthermore, the dominate factions in this game are mainly made up of the larger cash-shopping players and are not as adversely affected by the TW income that they receive. You are killing the smaller factions here not the big ones.

These changes are not making TW more competitive, they are making it worse and making it less appealing to everyone big and small alike. Your "fix" for fake bidding doesn't work; it makes it easier to fake bid and get away with it. Your reward system for TW is broken and doesn't provide people incentive to do. You are destroying the main reason people play this game. Like I've said in my previous posts you should start listening to the community and those of us who have been around a long time, rather than towing the company line that comes from Developers who have no clue what goes on, on these servers. WE ARE NOT PW China or PW Malaysia nor will we ever be. Conqueror took over the map and Conqueror gave it back to promote more TW's for smaller factions than your changes to the TW system ever will. A larger faction (or sometimes 2) will always emerge to take over the map...that's the point of the game.

100% Accurate.

There is no real reason to go for TW at this point.
Larger factions will still dominate, smaller factions will not even bother going for 150 mirages that they can get from BH.

Trying to justify the new patch by saying it will put everyone on equal grounds is a lie.
Relies on so much failed logic and flaws. Sorry but what I'm telling you here is the truth.

TW existed long before packs were around. Care to explain why gold was 100-200k a piece before packs? And how it jumped to 500k+ when packs came around?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

frankieraye wrote: »

This is why, with the former system, PW in Malaysia and China ultimately ended up with the territory war map completely taken over and nothing anyone could do about it.

You don't really get it. Big factions will still take over the map. The incentive for smaller factions to particpate has been completely removed.

Big factions will still get thousands of mirages which are being NPC'd. We still get paid.

The smaller faction that doesn't have a huge bank account can't afford to bid 500k, be out bid and not receive a refund and NOT get to TW for that week. If they do happen to win a bid and win a land, they're not going to be able to afford defending.

If you even bothered to read the last thread you conveniently had closed... at least a dozen small faction leaders who came on just to post have said TW is no longer in their picture.

PWE has taken away the competition and the motive for other smaller guilds to even participate. Now the largest factions will take over the map more quickly and wtih less of a fight... On Lost City, we'll take the map just to control who gets Rank 9, not that more than a handful of people can actually afford it. We'll still get more money and be able to defend and pay our members, small factions lose everything.

Blancheneige - Heavens Tear

frankieraye wrote: »

So the huge faction continues winning its battles (whether they are legit battles or fake battles), and it wins 90% of every winning bid. Legit wins give them a new source of income, and fake bid wins only cost them 10% of the bid that they themselves made (keep in mind that you don't need charms for a fake battle).

Eventually, the dominant faction has enough coins to outbid everyone for 200M coins each through fake bids. They then get back 90% of each of these 200M coin bids. The map ultimately is entirely theirs.

I thought you (PWI) were monitoring the TW bids to prevents fake bidding?

Or did you (PWI) gave up on monitoring this as well? b:puzzled

TheBishSlap - Lost City

frankieraye wrote: »

The changes should make TW far more competitive. And I don't think you're a bowl of jello.

The old way, once a faction holds half the map, they are making 300M coin per week, which leads to:

#1 - Poaching elite players from smaller factions who want to get in on the Coins.

#2 - Being able to either pay for charms or fake bids, both of which give them a huge advantage over a non-TW faction.

So the huge faction continues winning its battles (whether they are legit battles or fake battles), and it wins 90% of every winning bid. Legit wins give them a new source of income, and fake bid wins only cost them 10% of the bid that they themselves made (keep in mind that you don't need charms for a fake battle).

Eventually, the dominant faction has enough coins to outbid everyone for 200M coins each through fake bids. They then get back 90% of each of these 200M coin bids. The map ultimately is entirely theirs.

This is why, with the former system, PW in Malaysia and China ultimately ended up with the territory war map completely taken over and nothing anyone could do about it.


With the new rules in place, huge factions will no longer be getting enough coins from the TW system to be able to afford Charms and fake bids every week. You will no longer have to depend on a faction disbanding out of the kindness of its heart to have a diverse TW map.

im sorry frankie but what you said does have merit but it sounds to me like a bunch of bs.
while what you said about charms and fake bids is agreeable about how you get an advantage over TW is true this has defeated the entire purpose. You basically TW for 2 reasons in this game
1.To have fun in war going head to head in an intense competition about everything in the game, skill, strategy, and gear.
2.For the REWARD of tw afterwards while a faction gets the money every week from the system it is NOT FREE they have had to work for months and months to earn that land and to get the recompensation it gives and then they use ALL of the money every week on each TW.

by taking the pay down from 10m to 150 mirages you have basically slapped everyone in big factions for all the work theyve put in to getting the territories, for all the money invested, and for all the work theyve put into their gear for these territories.

My next point is that there is absolutely no point to TW anymore if all it leaves you is 150 mirages and charms getting ***** to all hell.
while yes it is an extremely fun instance and ill still go every week with a charm even though i wont get compensation because it is fun, there is no competition
in the lost city server there isnt going to be any tws from this point on till the patch is fixed. You can try to argue this point but look at the evidence.
For example im a lvl 100 ep in essence on the lost city server,
now the Primary Competition for essence, Spectral is falling apart.
It can be argued that they were falling apart before but they still TW and other guilds still TW.
This is all changing now half of spectral has left guild purely to rpk because theres no other form of pvp. they arent even bothering to TW against us.
so now instead of doing what you set out to do with this patch which is to make it so no one faction controlled the map, instead no one is fighting back for tw so it will be incredibly easy to take the map, Why? because theres no point in fighting back no one cares anymore.
We in essence have literally been told we can take the map, who wants to fight for hours on end for 150 mirages.
Why would a small faction bid and try and win a war when once they win the war they basically get told "hey you did all this work and put together such an impresive display of teamwork and sacrificed sooo much coins to get here, have 150 mirages"




end rant

crunchycat

frankieraye wrote:

The changes should make TW far more competitive. And I don't think you're a bowl of jello.

The changes make TW ridiculously costly with negative gain.

frankieraye wrote:

The old way, once a faction holds half the map, they are making 300M coin per week, which leads to:

#1 - Poaching elite players from smaller factions who want to get in on the Coins.

#2 - Being able to either pay for charms or fake bids, both of which give them a huge advantage over a non-TW faction.

There's nothing wrong with #1. Regarding #2, there's nothing wrong with funding charms from TW gains. Fake bids wouldn't be an issue if GMs were actually present and did their job.

frankieraye wrote:

So the huge faction continues winning its battles (whether they are legit battles or fake battles), and it wins 90% of every winning bid. Legit wins give them a new source of income, and fake bid wins only cost them 10% of the bid that they themselves made (keep in mind that you don't need charms for a fake battle).

Eventually, the dominant faction has enough coins to outbid everyone for 200M coins each through fake bids. They then get back 90% of each of these 200M coin bids. The map ultimately is entirely theirs.

This is why, with the former system, PW in Malaysia and China ultimately ended up with the territory war map completely taken over and nothing anyone could do about it.


With the new rules in place, huge factions will no longer be getting enough coins from the TW system to be able to afford Charms and fake bids every week. You will no longer have to depend on a faction disbanding out of the kindness of its heart to have a diverse TW map.

The only real problem you have mentioned is fake bidding. That's one of the reasons why GMs are supposed to exist. Instead you have chosen the path of collective punishment to "fix the problem" in a way that requires no GM intervention. So the real question is, why don't GMs want to do thier jobs?

frankieraye

Logan_Morgan - Lost City wrote: »

Long Live Conqueror b:thanksb:thanks

P.S.

What you say frankie makes alot of sense, so why did it take you this long to say it. why did you continue to insist that TW income was the cause of inflation which it obviously isnt, given that best luck tokens add more coin to the economy per day than TW salary did each week. i think it would be best for everyone if you were just straight up with us, we are not stupid and we can see a bold faced lie when one is told.

A lot of things caused inflation, including grinding, questing, DQ item vendoring, decomposing gear into Mirage Celestones and vendoring them, 10M big notes, and weekly TW income payouts. TW income is not the only culprit, but it does add about 2.4 billion coins to the economy every month, which is substantial.

We do not insist that TW income is the sole cause of inflation, but we do believe that the TW change should at least help somewhat. That point was originally brought up because, after the change was announced, these forums erupted into a supernova, and Kanto was hoping to bring up a good point that had not brought up yet. Of course, this observation was then blown way out of proportion, to the point where it seemed like TW income was taking the full blame for inflation, and this change was going to fix everything in one fell swoop.

This is not the case. It may help, but I don't expect it to single-handedly curb inflation, and I don't expect you all to believe that either.

The TW changes were made primarily to make TW more competitive, ideally to keep us from spiraling down the same path as PW-MY and PW-CN, where entire TW maps had been owned by one unstoppable force.

A reduction in inflation would merely be a welcome side effect of these changes.

Thank you all for your patience and for the good discussion here in this thread.

Mraochan - Lost City

Elayne - Lost City wrote: »

So, you are punishing the factions that do well at TW because you as the GMs are not controlling people who fake bid? If you banned and properly punished the factions who were fake bidding, like the GMs said they would back when Lost City started, then you wouldn't need to change the TW system to 'fix' that problem. Furthermore, if you looked at the history on Lost City you would realize that Conqueror and Essence have never once used a fake bid to control its TW position. The wrong doings of another server should not be used to punish us.

I will agree that a larger guild owning more land is likely to attract more players, however, if they don't then those players would remain in smaller factions who are unable to TW against the bigger, more powerful factions regardless of what TW system you have in place. Also, if you look at the current bidding on the Lost City server it has gone down since your patch. Smaller guilds are not attracted to bidding on a land that will cost them a lot of money and resources without the chance at a good reward. 150 mirages is not an incentive to have them bid. You are destroying TW, not encouraging it.

Furthermore, while it is true that a larger land owning faction attracts more players, their competition also attract equal numbers of new recruits looking to take that faction down. Your recent patch has removed their drive to do that as there is little to no reward for them to compete against us.

When will you act on the damage you are causing the game rather than continue to spout "give it a chance", "learn from the other servers" when the PWI community is different than those servers and does not have the same history that those servers have. Furthermore, the dominate factions in this game are mainly made up of the larger cash-shopping players and are not as adversely affected by the TW income that they receive. You are killing the smaller factions here not the big ones.

These changes are not making TW more competitive, they are making it worse and making it less appealing to everyone big and small alike. Your "fix" for fake bidding doesn't work; it makes it easier to fake bid and get away with it. Your reward system for TW is broken and doesn't provide people incentive to do. You are destroying the main reason people play this game. Like I've said in my previous posts you should start listening to the community and those of us who have been around a long time, rather than towing the company line that comes from Developers who have no clue what goes on, on these servers. WE ARE NOT PW China or PW Malaysia nor will we ever be. Conqueror took over the map and Conqueror gave it back to promote more TW's for smaller factions than your changes to the TW system ever will. A larger faction (or sometimes 2) will always emerge to take over the map...that's the point of the game.

Very well said, agree 100% b:surrender

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

Just to touch on something you said earlier, Frankie - kind of off topic but I've no desire to get into the arguments here.

IF a guild managed to take over the entire map and IF the leader of that guild requested it, are you saying that there's no way for PWI/PWE to reset a TW map?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

frankieraye wrote: »

The TW changes were made primarily to make TW more competitive,.

TW on Lost City this week:

Essence vs Spectral
Kami vs ThaClick

Those two were guaranteed to happen no matter what. Disregard them.


Spectral = not attaking. They have not attacked since the change.
ThaClick = not attacking. They have not attacked since the change.
Yakuza = Not attacking. I thought they might bid on ThaClick, they didn't.

ThaClick is falling apart. Deserted Sea is basically free land. Nobody bid on it. Nobody attacked Forest of Haze or Island of Broken Dreams. These two territories were usually attacked every week.

These are 5 wars that would have normally happened and one 'giveaway land' nobody even bid on.


Tribute vs Yakuza. Non factor vs Tier 3 guild = your 'TW is more competitive'

This is the only new TW in a 'more competitive' environment.

There are only 3 wars this weekend.

TheBishSlap - Lost City

frankieraye wrote: »

A lot of things caused inflation, including grinding, questing, DQ item vendoring, decomposing gear into Mirage Celestones and vendoring them, 10M big notes, and weekly TW income payouts. TW income is not the only culprit, but it does add about 2.4 billion coins to the economy every month, which is substantial.

We do not insist that TW income is the sole cause of inflation, but we do believe that the TW change should at least help somewhat. That point was originally brought up because, after the change was announced, these forums erupted into a supernova, and Kanto was hoping to bring up a good point that had not brought up yet. Of course, this observation was then blown way out of proportion, to the point where it seemed like TW income was taking the full blame for inflation, and this change was going to fix everything in one fell swoop.

This is not the case. It may help, but I don't expect it to single-handedly curb inflation, and I don't expect you all to believe that either.

The TW changes were made primarily to make TW more competitive, ideally to keep us from spiraling down the same path as PW-MY and PW-CN, where entire TW maps had been owned by one unstoppable force.

A reduction in inflation would merely be a welcome side effect of these changes.

Thank you all for your patience and for the good discussion here in this thread.

TW IS NOT COMPETITIVE WITHOUT A REWARD YOU CANNOT GIVE US 1/10th OF WHAT IT WAS AND THEN GIVE US A 1/30th OF A CHANCE TO GET A PIECE OF GAME BREAKING GEAR NO ONE CAN USE
Essence has 1 8jun and she is a cleric what is this going to do make people get 9jun? for what 5 min TWs with 20 people from the BIGGEST OPPOSING GUILD ON THE SERVER why? because No one is going to get a land from us because there is nothing to pull them together and make them all collectively try and win. THERES NO POINT YOU GAIN NOTHING TWS GOING TO DIE. And With the only end game pvp event gone THE SERVERS GOING TO DIE. no way around it unless you put back in the reward or put in a better reward







roseb:cute

Elayne - Lost City

frankieraye wrote: »

A lot of things caused inflation, including grinding, questing, DQ item vendoring, decomposing gear into Mirage Celestones and vendoring them, 10M big notes, and weekly TW income payouts. TW income is not the only culprit, but it does add about 2.4 billion coins to the economy every month, which is substantial.

We do not insist that TW income is the sole cause of inflation, but we do believe that the TW change should at least help somewhat. That point was originally brought up because, after the change was announced, these forums erupted into a supernova, and Kanto was hoping to bring up a good point that had not brought up yet. Of course, this observation was then blown way out of proportion, to the point where it seemed like TW income was taking the full blame for inflation, and this change was going to fix everything in one fell swoop.

This is not the case. It may help, but I don't expect it to single-handedly curb inflation, and I don't expect you all to believe that either.

The TW changes were made primarily to make TW more competitive, ideally to keep us from spiraling down the same path as PW-MY and PW-CN, where entire TW maps had been owned by one unstoppable force.

A reduction in inflation would merely be a welcome side effect of these changes.

Thank you all for your patience and for the good discussion here in this thread.

This change won't do anything when the packs bring more income a day than TW does in a week. You will NEVER fix inflation as long as packs and 10mil big notes exist from Best Luck Tokens.

You have taken away the incentive to do TW. We are not upset about the loss of coins so much as we are upset about the fact that Mirage Stones are NOT AN INCENTIVE FOR ANYONE TO DO TW. Therefore, it will not matter what your intentions are for TW no one will bid except those who want to own the map which are the really big factions.

Why don't you give us a good reward like 50 Wraith Officer Badges for a Level 3 Land, 100 for a Level 2 land and 150 for a Level 1 Land. That way you can couple them the Medal of Glory and use it to make Rank gear. This would give people a reason to TW again without injecting coins into the economy.

But stop insulting the community. Stop spouting lines from the PR department and start looking at what the community of PWI is telling you. We want a reason to do TW, something that sets us above the other factions, not a reward that isn't worth the mail you send it in. This would promote people to do TW.

Just a thought. I think the money was a good reward and the system wasn't broken, but if you're determined to change it then change it to something that makes sense. Do not change it to something that simply insults the PWI player base and treat us like we're stupid and won't see through the lies. Your PR department is doing a terrible job right now. Start listening.

On a side note, I do appreciate the fact that you are taking the time to reply so that this is more than a 1 sided conversation.

Aelric - Lost City

frankieraye wrote: »

A lot of things caused inflation, including grinding, questing, DQ item vendoring, decomposing gear into Mirage Celestones and vendoring them, 10M big notes, and weekly TW income payouts. TW income is not the only culprit, but it does add about 2.4 billion coins to the economy every month, which is substantial.

We do not insist that TW income is the sole cause of inflation, but we do believe that the TW change should at least help somewhat. That point was originally brought up because, after the change was announced, these forums erupted into a supernova, and Kanto was hoping to bring up a good point that had not brought up yet. Of course, this observation was then blown way out of proportion, to the point where it seemed like TW income was taking the full blame for inflation, and this change was going to fix everything in one fell swoop.

This is not the case. It may help, but I don't expect it to single-handedly curb inflation, and I don't expect you all to believe that either.

The TW changes were made primarily to make TW more competitive, ideally to keep us from spiraling down the same path as PW-MY and PW-CN, where entire TW maps had been owned by one unstoppable force.

A reduction in inflation would merely be a welcome side effect of these changes.

Thank you all for your patience and for the good discussion here in this thread.

whoa whoa whoa frankie... you just blamed all of the problems that this game has on the ONLY ways to make money in game... so you are saying the people who make money and attempt to play for free since this is technically a Free to Play game are the problem? I get it now, thanks for clearing that up!

EDIT: I'm really looking forward to seeing a response to this frankie lol...what lie are you going to make up next? btw don't you need a degree to work for PWE? cuz I'm wondering how you could make so many mistakes with what you say.

PS hire me and I'll gladly patroll the forums and call up all the mysterious people who work for PWE and demand answers and input. although that will probly end with me just being fired. oh well

RedsRose - Lost City

Elayne - Lost City wrote: »

This change won't do anything when the packs bring more income a day than TW does in a week. You will NEVER fix inflation as long as packs and 10mil big notes exist from Best Luck Tokens.

You have taken away the incentive to do TW. We are not upset about the loss of coins so much as we are upset about the fact that Mirage Stones are NOT AN INCENTIVE FOR ANYONE TO DO TW. Therefore, it will not matter what your intentions are for TW no one will bid except those who want to own the map which are the really big factions.

Why don't you give us a good reward like 50 Wraith Officer Badges for a Level 3 Land, 100 for a Level 2 land and 150 for a Level 1 Land. That way you can couple them the Medal of Glory and use it to make Rank gear. This would give people a reason to TW again without injecting coins into the economy.

But stop insulting the community. Stop spouting lines from the PR department and start looking at what the community of PWI is telling you. We want a reason to do TW, something that sets us above the other factions, not a reward that isn't worth the mail you send it in. This would promote people to do TW.

Just a thought. I think the money was a good reward and the system wasn't broken, but if you're determined to change it then change it to something that makes sense. Do not change it to something that simply insults the PWI player base and treat us like we're stupid and won't see through the lies. Your PR department is doing a terrible job right now. Start listening.

On a side note, I do appreciate the fact that you are taking the time to reply so that this is more than a 1 sided conversation.

Well said...I do agree though that even Rep would be a much better reward for TW then just mirage stones that have already been flooded into the game since the one packs that had them and the 100 bh's.


I would like to point out though that the way the discussion is now going is the way it should be. Back and forth with constructive comments.


PS --> ty J b:cute

Aelric - Lost City

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

I would like to point out though that the way the discussion is now going is the way it should be. Back and forth with constructive comments.

Oh hai Rose! You reads mah post? *looks up* b:cute

RedsRose - Lost City

Aelric - Lost City wrote: »

Oh hai Rose! You reads mah post? *looks up* b:cute

b:cute Hi!!

And yes, I read everything b:chuckle

Eoria - Harshlands

frankieraye wrote: »

The TW changes were made primarily to make TW more competitive, ideally to keep us from spiraling down the same path as PW-MY and PW-CN, where entire TW maps had been owned by one unstoppable force.

As someone from the Malaysian version, let me elaborate on this for everyone.

PW MY-EN had two servers before the merge. The TW map was eventually taken over by WarLord on Oracle and ImmortaL on Delphi. They had so much money they could 200mil fake bid easily. And even now with the server merge, you practically need to 200mil a bid to even TW.

As this went on for awhile, zen prices went through the roof. By the time the servers merged, you were lucky to get zen at around 900k apiece from AH. By the time I left about a month ago, people were selling it over WC for anywhere from 1.2mil to 1.5mil apiece. This zen price remained constant even when we hadn't had a damn box or even a patch for over seven months.

What about tokens of best luck and the 10mil notes, you ask? What was there to ask? We got them in one box and one of them sold for about twice the price of one of those 10mil notes by then. You'd be better off selling it as is to some player. So no. The tokens of best luck did not contribute to our inflation at all.

Seriously, to everyone here that thinks PWI fails...you should play MY-EN for a week or so and then come back here and tell us your experience. I'm sure you'll have a new-found appreciation for the GMs here.

Mraochan - Lost City

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

I understand that theory, but that isnt the first time ive seen gold inflated in pwi. The first time was when they put the duke rose set in the boutique and it had a glitched npc price. You could sell it for millions and the gold prices shot up to 700k that night, then they had an emergency update. Im not completely sure if this was before or after chest of coins, but i think it was before. Anyways, chest of coins doesnt have to dictate the gold prices. The reason the players set the gold prices at 200k at least is because they want to make a profit off of noobs who dont know any better buying hammers to open the pack. There are 2 ways to fix the chest of coin problem. 1) take them out completely, which would be the easiest thing. or 2)make an npc where you pay so much to open one chest, (say 600k-900k) and limit that to once a day.

This is off topic kinda, so I apologize... but I have to clear some things up:

1. It's not a theory, it's what actually happened.

2. The gold price almost sets itself automatically once an item like that is introduced. No one in their right merchanting mind is going to allow a profit margin like that to exist without taking advantage of it. Let's say you're trading gold for coin. Why would you sell your gold in the auction house for 100k each, when you could get a chest of coins (presumably for next to nothing) and a perfect iron hammer and make a million coins?

3. The rip off is that people will sell the chest of coins for oh, 10-40k... Newbs see that it has 1,000,000 coins inside! If they don't know enough to research how much a perfect iron hammer costs first, well then... >< I always cringe when I see someone ask "what's a perfect iron hammer?" I say... "you bought one of those chests, didn't you?" lol

4. Taking them out completely would have worked, maybe, a year ago... I don't know if it would have any effect now.

5. Trading them to an npc would be ok, except wouldn't it be easier to just give the coin reward for finishing cube? But again this introduces more coin into the system...

Hope this clears things up a little and again sorry for off topic

trevtimusprime

I hit 30k hp finally and I don't even have a TW to pull a catapult in because of these shenanigans.

FML b:cry

drjiggle

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Tribute vs Yakuza. Non factor vs Tier 3 guild = your 'TW is more competitive'

This is the only new TW in a 'more competitive' environment.

There are only 3 wars this weekend.

This is probably the first week in months that we (YaKuZa) haven't been triple attacked or worse.

This is probably the first week in months that SG1 hasn't attacked anyone.

This is probably the first week in months that none of Nagare, RedDawn, and/or Zodian have been attacked.

These are the territories that would normally have been attacked by the smaller factions. Right or wrong, the people have spoken and clearly don't agree that this makes TW more attractive to them.

Also, FWIW, Tribute vs. YaKuZa isn't new. They attacked us last week as well.

Alphae - Lost City

frankieraye wrote: »

A lot of things caused inflation, including grinding, questing, DQ item vendoring, decomposing gear into Mirage Celestones and vendoring them, 10M big notes, and weekly TW income payouts. TW income is not the only culprit, but it does add about 2.4 billion coins to the economy every month, which is substantial.

LOLOLOLOLollololololooollllll

That's like saying a lot of things fill an olympic-size swimming pool, including (in order of how you listed them) a single raindrop, another raindrops, two raindrops at once, a half a raindrop, A HUGE GIANT RAGING FLOOD OF 1 ZILLION GALLONS OF WATER, and a five gallon pail.

lololllllllllllllllllolololol

Danteii - Lost City

frankieraye wrote: »

A lot of things caused inflation, including grinding, questing, DQ item vendoring, decomposing gear into Mirage Celestones and vendoring them, 10M big notes, and weekly TW income payouts. TW income is not the only culprit, but it does add about 2.4 billion coins to the economy every month, which is substantial.

We do not insist that TW income is the sole cause of inflation, but we do believe that the TW change should at least help somewhat. That point was originally brought up because, after the change was announced, these forums erupted into a supernova, and Kanto was hoping to bring up a good point that had not brought up yet. Of course, this observation was then blown way out of proportion, to the point where it seemed like TW income was taking the full blame for inflation, and this change was going to fix everything in one fell swoop.

This is not the case. It may help, but I don't expect it to single-handedly curb inflation, and I don't expect you all to believe that either.

The TW changes were made primarily to make TW more competitive, ideally to keep us from spiraling down the same path as PW-MY and PW-CN, where entire TW maps had been owned by one unstoppable force.

A reduction in inflation would merely be a welcome side effect of these changes.

Thank you all for your patience and for the good discussion here in this thread.

I'm sorry but I will have to disagree with you.

I know alot of people have pointed it out already, but, I'm going to say it again: Inflation was caused by items such as Chest of Coins and in/famous packs with several names.

Why the chest of coins?

Well adding a boutique item which cost 5 gold which is used to open a Chest that contains 1m coins forced every sever to keep their gold price at 200k or higher since these Chests were ridiculously easy to get.

Why the packs?

These absolutely killed most (if not all) of the PvE instances such as Frost and Lunar. The common reward from the pack is the Token of Luck, you obtain 15 per pack. You can exchange a certain amonunt of these Tokens for items such as Ultimate Substances, Skill Book Pages, Wines (10 tokens = 1 wine which you can exchange for 99.999 on the wedding NPC) and others..

It's second common item is the Token of Best Luck, a worthless item. Oh wait- if you get 2 you can exchange them for 10 million notes.

The rest of the items are rare but not impossible to obtain, but, these items once you obtain them players get such big advantage over others PvE wise, making the only instance worth to farm (Twilight Temple) easier than ever.

Note: I was afk for a period of 11 hours and I counted every token of best luck that I could see on my screen, I counted 26 Tokens of best luck that's 130m worth of coins injected to the game by doing nothing in one day and it could be higher.

Territorial War is not a competitive event anymore (at least not in Lost City), here's some proof.



If this is the way you see TW competitive I can't imagine what it was to you, GMs, before it was changed.

As it was mentioned previously by other players the bigger guilds will remain with their lands since it's pointless for small guilds to fight them.

That's all I have to say for now.

b:bye

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

frankieraye wrote: »

A lot of things caused inflation, including grinding, questing, DQ item vendoring, decomposing gear into Mirage Celestones and vendoring them, 10M big notes, and weekly TW income payouts. TW income is not the only culprit, but it does add about 2.4 billion coins to the economy every month, which is substantial.

We do not insist that TW income is the sole cause of inflation, but we do believe that the TW change should at least help somewhat. That point was originally brought up because, after the change was announced, these forums erupted into a supernova, and Kanto was hoping to bring up a good point that had not brought up yet. Of course, this observation was then blown way out of proportion, to the point where it seemed like TW income was taking the full blame for inflation, and this change was going to fix everything in one fell swoop.

This is not the case. It may help, but I don't expect it to single-handedly curb inflation, and I don't expect you all to believe that either.

The TW changes were made primarily to make TW more competitive, ideally to keep us from spiraling down the same path as PW-MY and PW-CN, where entire TW maps had been owned by one unstoppable force.

A reduction in inflation would merely be a welcome side effect of these changes.

Thank you all for your patience and for the good discussion here in this thread.

So...when I grind for a few hours to make a little extra coin to pay for Crazy Stone (yes I still do that), make a TT or Nirvana run to sell the drops so I can afford that item in AH/CS that I want or need. That's MY fault the economy is so screwed? It's MY fault that I have to work, just like everyone else, to get something even remotely decent?

(insert expletive here)

You sound just like the BP dimwits blaming EVERYONE but themselves for the massive oil spill in the gulf. And that's exactly what PWI is becoming, a big disaster.

Alphae - Lost City

Frankie, I just read what you said to my guild. First reply:

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k188/theshadowlife/lololol.jpg

Aelric - Lost City

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

Well said...I do agree though that even Rep would be a much better reward for TW then just mirage stones that have already been flooded into the game since the one packs that had them and the 100 bh's.


I would like to point out though that the way the discussion is now going is the way it should be. Back and forth with constructive comments.


PS --> ty J b:cute

Alphae - Lost City wrote: »

Frankie, I just read what you said to my guild. First reply:

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k188/theshadowlife/lololol.jpg

haha *presses like button*

Mraochan - Lost City

Elayne - Lost City wrote: »

Why don't you give us a good reward like 50 Wraith Officer Badges for a Level 3 Land, 100 for a Level 2 land and 150 for a Level 1 Land. That way you can couple them the Medal of Glory and use it to make Rank gear. This would give people a reason to TW again without injecting coins into the economy.

I like this idea.

Or how about an exponential down curve based on the number of lands you own? That would give everyone a lot of incentive to get one land, the first land(s) would give the most reward and drop off from there. No rewards past 23 lands, so no one would have any incentive to take all the lands... By playing around with this math, you could have the server any number of colors you want.

Alphae - Lost City

Mraochan - Lost City wrote: »

Or how about an exponential down curve based on the number of lands you own? That would give everyone a lot of incentive to get one land, the first land(s) would give the most reward and drop off from there. No rewards past 23 lands, so no one would have any incentive to take all the lands... By playing around with this math, you could have the server any number of colors you want.

I like this idea better.

X_Diogenes_x - Sanctuary

Hi, my previous post in the now closed TW Discussion thread went unanswered so just reposting here. I haven't seen an official response about this yet so if I've missed it, could someone pls post the link? Thanks

So are bids meant to be secret and the fact that they're being announced (but still anonymous) a bug? Or is this how it was intended to be all along?

Would like some clarification on this please so that we don't come to expect a fix for it if this is how it should be.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

X_Diogenes_x - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hi, my previous post in the now closed TW Discussion thread went unanswered so just reposting here. I haven't seen an official response about this yet so if I've missed it, could someone pls post the link? Thanks

I actually think it's a bug? Earlier this evening the system message clearly said that Equinox had bid on Calamity's territory....but I don't know...

Wished I had grabbed an SS of it.

Drippydrop - Harshlands

This is still BS..