New TW pay system

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's hard to say what the effect will be without a complete listing of the changes.

I'm curious about any changes to scheduling priorities.

So far this:

Example:Faction A has multiple lands and Factions B,C and D want to attack the lands of Faction A.So,if Faction B,C and D decide to attack the lands of Faction A at the same time,the System will as much as possible put the 3 battles at the same timings

The change of the rules is mainly to increase the difficulty of defending multuiple lands and to increase the intensity of Territory Wars and tactics required in Territory Wars,allowing all faction to have a chance to participate in the exciting Territory Wars

truekossy wrote: »

And this is the biggest problem with the new bidding system. They should either make the bids unknown but provide refunds so that people will know if they've been outbid and can attempt to bid on another land/try again... or make the bidding visible without providing refunds. Making it hidden and not providing refunds, on the other hand, just causes more problems than solutions.

Agreed.

Example:Faction A has multiple lands and Factions B,C and D want to attack the lands of Faction A.So,if Faction B,C and D decide to attack the lands of Faction A at the same time,the System will as much as possible put the 3 battles at the same timings

So long as all three of these factions are bidding on different territories. On our map, there are usually bidding wars on several of smaller guild's lands. Right now there are 3 factions that hold 1 territory each and 2 that hold two. Most of the action is going to be on these lands... and without bidders being known or refunds being given, a lot of smaller factions are going to get screwed out of their money and not get a war, so this rule seems to disadvantage the smaller factions more than it does the larger ones like us, who will just throw a high bid on a land we want to attack to avoid losing any money at all.

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

Only thing is though, if the smaller factions really are not bidding now, what would now make them bid?

^ Does that make sense?

I just cannot see anything other then a few stronger factions getting together to "plan" multiple attacks at the same time. More so then is already attempted...

It's all those smaller lands that are getting most of the action. Without knowing who is bidding, if their bid was trumped, or what hasn't been bid on, many smaller factions may not get involved, or have to rely on bidding against the larger factions which they have no chance against. Look at the TW map and see for yourself.

Am i the only 1 thinking that these rewards.. maybe could have demon/sage shards in as TW pay? it would give a bit sence.. be able buy charm/hyper etc with shards non tradeable without flood market with coins.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

It's all those smaller lands that are getting most of the action. Without knowing who is bidding, if their bid was trumped, or what hasn't been bid on, many smaller factions may not get involved, or have to rely on bidding against the larger factions which they have no chance against. Look at the TW map and see for yourself.

Not sure if I can agree with that...I mean how many TW's happen each week? Not too many and they are always the same guilds (ignoring the fakes of course) and we all know there are 578979846 guilds out there; of which I know there are those that could easily TW each week.

Once the "littler" factions are gone, it will be the "Top 3" again like it was not too long ago and then what? b:surrender

I think this will work either way depending upon the state of each server and how involved some of the smaller guilds want to get. After-all, nothing says that a larger guild could not sponsor a smaller one.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If a faction holds multiple lands,the system will organize the battles based on the times that the bidding factions decide to fight.

So if he had translated correctly, a gank is encouraged now?

Nothing is being encouraged. The artificial restrictions protecting a multiple-territory holding faction are being weakened.

Remember, the baseline state for any group vs. group PvP is anyone can attack anyone at any time. So if your faction held all the territories and 25 guilds decided to attack you at the same time, they could, and you'd be forced to defend 25 territories at once. PWE enacted some incredibly stringent rules to prevent this scenario. One look at the territory maps on the servers and I think you'll agree the rules offer too much protection for territory-holding factions.

If your faction holds multiple territories, you should be thankful for any protection above the baseline state. In a true competition, there is simply no way <200 people could dominate a server of thousands. You have no grounds for complaining about those protections being weakened since their whole reason for existing is to give you an unfair advantage.

Edit: Also, I suspect the bid being non-refundable is motivated by wanting to add another coin sink to the game, not out of any concern over the dynamics of the bidding process.

Calija - Raging Tide wrote: »

I wonder if the TW map get resetted with these changes.

shhhhhhhhhh.... some of the higher ups might have a heart attack

Seems like it will add another dimension to bidding strategy really. On just the surface, the easiest one to notice is that picking the place to attack has more meaning. Currently people bid on one for best placement/strategy. Now they may have to choose going for one that is rarely bid on just to ensure they can TW. So this could increase the number of TWs, since out-bidding at the last minute, or a faction being out-bidded while the leader is sleeping isn't as likely to happen. Will have to see if it over-all increases or decreases.

Similarly, could be a great coin sink when people bid on choice territory; whether it's for a apoth 6 territory, or just to set up for a co-ordinated attack. Then there is the backstabbing that could happen after a plan is made. Something else I was wondering if PWI was going to change, can't remember what it was though.

So uhm... how will this make gold prices drop?
The uber packs are still in cash shop, it was after Anniversary packs was implemented that gold went up to 500k+ and havent dropped more then a little under 400k+ since...

I havent tried the new system to actually know if I like it or not, but if its like Rank 9 badges dropping, who are gonna buy them? Probably most Rank 8 people are already in a major TW faction so when its a overload of R9 badges it should be cheap since only a handful on each server got it yet...


So the way I see it is that the top guild will still be on top - the weekend warriors of the top guild will quit cause they dont get any TW income and dont play anymore on the weekdays so they wont farm that coins just to do TW. So old semi-retired players quit for good.
Less factions will bid on territories cause they are afraid to lose the cash.. That will result in only the serious TW guilds to bid.. On Heavens Tear thats probably 5-6 decent factions that will keep bidding at least a while untill they lose so much money they give up.. So top faction will stay on top and the 2nd and 3rd will bid once in a while.. That will make less TW action, less to talk about, less drama and less reason to keep on playing the game..
Top faction will probably get bored to death and decide to split, they may or may not.. but its possible. Then maybe it will be more fun when it will be 50 different colors (not sure how many territories it is, just making an example)
TWers also consist of more cash shoppers then the regular Bob and Tom from a lvl 1 faction, they constantly want to get better to pawn more, simple as that.. So if people don't get a lot of TWs they might as well quit easier so PW will lose a lot of cash shoppers and money from their business. I don't know whats gonna happen, just making assumptions, but for me this sounds likely..'

Mirages as a reward is kinda fail - they are not worth anything mainly cause of events and BHs.. I NPC those to get some money out of it.

Result:
* Fewer TWs every weekend
* Good old players retire for good.
* Cash shoppers quit faster out of boredom
* Still 400k+ gold prices (that wont change when you get a chance to get 100 million items or more from 1 gold packs + the tokens are that I really like, but with them you can make cheap wines and other funky stuff cheap)
* Slowly making top factions die cause their main core quit the game.. resulting in new fresh meat joining that dont know anything about TW so top faction will not be as good anymore when their experienced core are gone.
* Maybe more factions on the map.


As long as the game is based on gambling (packs, refining etc) the cash flow will be huge, its like a Casino. Gambling = a lot of money and the house always win even though you have a great time.

Its the items in cash shop that you can buy with gold that makes up the gold prices, not the pay from lands.. If this change ever happen I think it will be bad for the game, the chinese version had a lot of problems with players exploiting, botting and what not, thats what PWI announced the reason for the 20% value drop on DQ items. They also said that since that is not an issue here we should be rewarded somehow.. this is not a reward that we are getting punished by the issues of other PW versions. Only way to make gold drops is to get out the OP stuff in the boutique so you actually gotta play not pay - to get what you want, making you work and do an effort to farm.. Cheap gold prices = a load of +12 weapons + crazy +30 atk lvl blessing = 1 shots all the time.. What fun is that?
Well its super fun, at least for a month or two.. I dont like changes like this, I feel that major changes to modify the game is not good, we play the game cause we like how it is.. at least I do..

Changes I would want is:

* More endgame gameplay @ 100+ (today its only BHs and Nirvana ppl do)
* More Quests and make people want to do it. At lvl 100 you get like 18 000 exp for a quest and you need 67 million exp to 101.. That doesnt make sense, that you get as much exp from quests at lvl 100 that you do at lvl 30. Quests would have to give better rewards like more Exp and spirit, more reputation and better gear rewards.. Getting quest gear rewards for 100+ is like like lvl 97 quest wristguard with +345 water resistant and 2 sockets.. Wohoo.. Thats totally annoying and not useful.. I rather do BHs to get a lot of exp and good items at lvl 100+ then any of the lame quests that dont give you anything. Overhaul the Quests is an idea.
* Public Quest lvl 95+ -> its deserted, there are no people there at least on Heavens Tear. Its a reason for it.. should make that more popular in a way.
* Reduce the cost of Teleport.. peope use several hundred thousands of coins every day to get where they gotta go to help people, to quest, to get gear etc.. No wonder people sell stuff for sick prices. 1k, 3k etc is fine, but 8k to small places?! 50 000 to nirvana? 30 000 to SoT and Abaddon? hmm... Not that people ever tele there, they go to 1k and use tele to the other village and a mount from there.
* Take out the Jones blessing, for heavens sake.. Its really fun and all, but it cant be permanent.. its too powerful.
* Remove the packs for good. Make a way for people to earn the event items like TT gear.. Most of that gear that you can earn in game is more or less impossible.. Make it hard but still obtainable within reason.
* Change the Nien Beast event somehow.. Fist BMs/Archers always win, its so sad to see a lvl 60+ Psychic get over 10 000 points cause its squading with his main BM that got +10 Lunar Claws or whatever.. The Psychic dont do anything still it always win.. shouldnt be allowed. (Well it happens to me every Nien event, I usually get 2nd with a Rank 8 +10 weapon and always get beaten by a lvl 60+ Psychic with +1 TT60 green, so I am gonna QQ about it) I get aroudn 5.7k contribution alone and that wont cover it when Fist users can get above 20 000.


In the boutique its nice with new fashion, some mounts, sales etc. But rare mounts you get like the DQ horses, dont put em in cash shop.. Make people work for the rare mounts and same with mounts people have obtained as a reward from PWI competitions etc. Its sad to see 1 person got a cool new mount and the week later its in the boutique. Entering competitions, events etc like that seems kinda pointless then. Everyone is waiting for Warsoul mats to be in cash shop, and it kinda is somehow. Its important for PW to make a steady income, but should be a way to do it and still keep a good gameplay. I like updates and such but pleas fix the basic bugs, like the PK enabled corner in room 1 in cube, the 45 min lasting cleric buff etc.

Anyways.. tired to write more.. A wall of text and I bet it sounds like a lot of complainting.

ArchAngel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

47 territories on the map(plenty of land to bid). 100k min bid(cheap). No visibility on the status of the bidding, i.e who bids on which land and the amount bid.

I would think that more factions(smaller ones especially) will bid. Fake biddings will be harder to succeed too, unless one can fork out the max bid at the earliest possible timing. b:shocked Besides, fake biddings are usually more reactive than proactive. So fake bidding won't really increase.

then consider those small factions fake bids, whats so hard to do it? even a decent high lvl player can bid on all 47 lands with just minimum 100k. i know people with chars in all big factions with territory, wont be hard for others to do it too

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

Not sure if I can agree with that...I mean how many TW's happen each week? Not too many and they are always the same guilds (ignoring the fakes of course) and we all know there are 578979846 guilds out there; of which I know there are those that could easily TW each week.

Once the "littler" factions are gone, it will be the "Top 3" again like it was not too long ago and then what? b:surrender

I think this will work either way depending upon the state of each server and how involved some of the smaller guilds want to get. After-all, nothing says that a larger guild could not sponsor a smaller one.

Please tell me how this affects the larger factions? For our server, Essence, Spectral, Kami, Yakuza, ThaClick can all afford to lose bid money. That's not a big deal. They also know they'll be attacked by certain factions. There's nothing that will stop them from fake bidding, and might even encourage them to place additional fake bids to make sure TW times are more likely to be divided.

Right now, there are still a bunch of smaller factions on the map. Sure, when the largest factions have absorbed all of the land, your point may prove true, but up to this point on our server, the changes are detrimental to competitive and fun TWs.

Larger guilds won't be affected by these changes much, the smaller ones will suffer.

Fake bidding will be discouraged by the simple fact that there won't be any bid refund.

Winning guilds will not receive any $$$ from TW: think about it. At first, actual large land-owning guilds will have enough coins to try fake-bidding via their alts' guilds, but not for long, it will prove costly in the long run.

As for the market returning to normal, it's an obvious consequence. These new TW rules will affect the whole game, from top to bottom and is the most intelligent decision of PW in a very long time.

Putting fun back in PW: priceless!

b:pleased

and what about the smaller factions that do TW for fun. i mean sure at the moment i pay so my faction can have the fun but wheres the fun in loosing milions each week for nothing.

As for the coin loss, sure the coin will hold more value ..but no one will have any of it making the value of items ratio exactly the same. seems to me its just taking the fun out of TW making the entire game money based.... i want my fun back ..Its a game after all

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The new system kinda breaks the fake bid to split attacks thingy. In order to split your opposing factions attacks, you would need to know when they are bidding to attack because the attacks would be prioritized to placing factions with same attack times who are attacking the same faction.

No, to break up the attacks you just need to have more bids placed. Large land owning factions can stand to lose several fake bids a week. So if our enemy knows they're being double attacked, all they need to do is spam fake bids. Who cares if they get a refund. Losing 100k is kind of a joke. I waste nearly that teleporting WQ daily.

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

^ This.

Of course this will only hurt people and factions who TW, since they sink their coins.

However, speaking in general now, people have this obsession with "inflation is bad, deflation is good". It's purchasing power that is the factor here. I'd rather have 400k gold with a 600k income per hour than 100k with 50k income per hour... (just an example!)

Deflation is bad because it means the economy isn't growing.

Inflation is bad because it hurts the purchasing power. Look at Zimbabwe. Wow, everyone is a trillionaire there. Sounds awesome right? A loaf of bread costs many times that. Doesn't sound so good anymore eh?