New TW pay system

RRARRRRGGHHH - Sanctuary

Blueberry b:dirty

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »

block of quotes

>.> sometimes you see postings that make u giggle out loud during work. you did the trick today.

NightRage - Raging Tide

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

>.> sometimes you see postings that make u giggle out loud during work. you did the trick today.

I wish they would have taken a hint though.

BigFIuffy - Archosaur

Exegesis - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Changes I would want is:

* More endgame gameplay @ 100+ (today its only BHs and Nirvana ppl do)
* More Quests and make people want to do it. At lvl 100 you get like 18 000 exp for a quest and you need 67 million exp to 101.. That doesnt make sense, that you get as much exp from quests at lvl 100 that you do at lvl 30. Quests would have to give better rewards like more Exp and spirit, more reputation and better gear rewards.. Getting quest gear rewards for 100+ is like like lvl 97 quest wristguard with +345 water resistant and 2 sockets.. Wohoo.. Thats totally annoying and not useful.. I rather do BHs to get a lot of exp and good items at lvl 100+ then any of the lame quests that dont give you anything. Overhaul the Quests is an idea.
* Public Quest lvl 95+ -> its deserted, there are no people there at least on Heavens Tear. Its a reason for it.. should make that more popular in a way.
* Reduce the cost of Teleport.. peope use several hundred thousands of coins every day to get where they gotta go to help people, to quest, to get gear etc.. No wonder people sell stuff for sick prices. 1k, 3k etc is fine, but 8k to small places?! 50 000 to nirvana? 30 000 to SoT and Abaddon? hmm... Not that people ever tele there, they go to 1k and use tele to the other village and a mount from there.
* Take out the Jones blessing, for heavens sake.. Its really fun and all, but it cant be permanent.. its too powerful.
* Remove the packs for good. Make a way for people to earn the event items like TT gear.. Most of that gear that you can earn in game is more or less impossible.. Make it hard but still obtainable within reason.
* Change the Nien Beast event somehow.. Fist BMs/Archers always win, its so sad to see a lvl 60+ Psychic get over 10 000 points cause its squading with his main BM that got +10 Lunar Claws or whatever.. The Psychic dont do anything still it always win.. shouldnt be allowed. (Well it happens to me every Nien event, I usually get 2nd with a Rank 8 +10 weapon and always get beaten by a lvl 60+ Psychic with +1 TT60 green, so I am gonna QQ about it) I get aroudn 5.7k contribution alone and that wont cover it when Fist users can get above 20 000.

why cant we have a GM react to some of these things. This was a well thought out post and he wasnt accusing anyone or saying the game sucked. But it seems that GMs just sit back and do not deal with problems that the general public has been yelling for awhile. I understand that the GMs don't make the changed to the game but their job is to communicate with the Devs about what the Gamer is asking for right?

sorry i necro'ed that a bit came back to thread looking if their had ever been an answer then decided to post forgetting it was old

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

At least you've shown your true colors.

You don't care about "the economy". You just care about your own pockets. You said that yourself.

I still don't understand why you even bother arguing with me then when I'm specifically talking about the "standard of living" in this game... I don't give a rat's **** about your pocket specifically... instead I get flamed for trying to improve this standard of living.

Would you do the same in a RL economy?

Of course you talk nonsense again. Not sure if you deliberately miss my points or are just plain stupid, because apparently mathematics is something you cannot grasp.

Take the following statement:

EVERYONE can have +12 with enough hard work.

Read the caps again, ok?
You know what that means right?

Everyone right?

Ok, the average a player has to spend is like $2000 in that example.
Now, since everyone can have +12 with enough hard work, then how does that work out?

There will be some free-loaders who pay $0... so they will buy it from someone else who put gold in AH right?

On the equilibrum average equation looks like this:

$2000 + $2000 + $2000 + $2000 + .... = total revenue in game

Unless you got completely confused right now, let's go further. What happens when we remove 1 of them, but still want to keep the same result?

Oh right, we have to increase some other factor. After all:

$0 + $2000

makes $2000, not $4000 as before. Let's assume it looks like this:

$0 + $2500 + $2500 + $2500 + $2500 + $2000 + ... = total revenue (same as before)



$2500 > $2000 ijs


Lesson? Someone has to pay an insane amount of money if you are not willing to pay $2000 but still want +12. The more you don't pay yourself, the more others have to.


I know what idiotic response you'll give. "Who said everyone should have +12?"

Well, that's what I've been actually arguing about. Improving the standard of living in this game, aka gear, for everyone. Oh I forgot, you want, no matter how hard the work, only few "hardest workers" or the most advantaged to have it.

After all, you don't actually measure by HARD WORK, you measure by HARDEST WORK. That is, a RANKING.

An example of hard work would be, for example, 5000 points of hard work gives you X, 6000 gives you more, etc... an example of HARDEST work would be, top 5 get X, 10-6 get Y, etc...

In effect you want to make a pyramid scheme of economics, of hierarchy. Kind of those in fail societies. Completely against the western concept, at least in Europe. you want some sort of Feudal system economy.


Your nonsensical statements are like saying "everyone can be 1st in the Nien event", which is completely stupid.

Funny coming from the guy that can't even manage getting TT90

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

then someone else has to pay more than $2000 to offset that.

/facepalm

I'm sure that you still actually believe that. I'll give it one last go.

The gold in-game comes from many people. Those people aren't spending any more money to get something so someone else can pay less. People who are charging zen and selling the gold in the gold trader are specifically doing so because they want coin. That gold is made available so anyone with coin so they can purchase that gold and use it. If someone else wants to buy that *cash shop item* with gold, the person who is buying that same item by using coin in the gold trader doesn't affect that price to the cash shop user at all.

So if 12 people are getting +12 refines, one of them is using coin, the cost of the refine will be the same for the 11 people who are getting that cash shop item. Gold trading relies on the simple premise that some people who have cash to spend will want in-game coin and that some people with in-game coin will want items from the cash shop. If I want to buy enough orbs to +12 an item with in-game coin, I am only relying on the people who are spending cash in the game because they want coin.

If you actually pay attention to gold trading and market prices along with sales, you will see there is enough people who sell gold to fund whatever anyone else wants in the cash shop over time, no matter how cheap or expensive the item may be. Nobody is getting hurt or ripped off. The cash shop users buying gold are relying and expecting that some person in-game will want to refine to +12 or whatever, so they can sell their gold and have the coin. It's a win-win situation really.

Of course, you're not arguing from a logical standpoint, you've got some misguided idealistic beliefs involved keeping you from understanding exactly why you're so off base.

b:bye

tsunadecimo

Who here thinks that the coming updates that we see coming, spell the death of Perfect World?

Archers_Soul - Lost City

Remember back in the day when 100 mirages were like 1.2 mil?

Traz - Dreamweaver

Archers_Soul - Lost City wrote: »

Remember back in the day when 100 mirages were like 1.2 mil?

I see people sell 1000 for 13k now...

_Grim_Reaper - Harshlands

1000 mirages for 13k? that doesn't make any sense you can sell mirages to npc for 10k ea

SecretGem - Heavens Tear

Well idk if you all have noticed yet, probably some of you have and others havent. Currently it seems that PWE(in china) is trying to manage two different game economies and is haveing trouble. Obvisouly you cant treat 2 different versions of the game the same money wise it's just not applicable.

PWI-CN has what seems to be a big issue in coin farming. w/ boting etc. PWI-CN is doing everything they can currently to get rid of anything that instantly makes coin. The same updates usually go over to our server as well whether were ready for them or not.

So until that problem is resolved i'm sure we can expect to see changes to anything that makes coin instantly.

Examples:
-tokens that give you 10mil when 2 put together
-Gold Tradeing(i'm sure this might be the last resort)
-price of items in general

Currently gold prices arent that bad on any server, obviously if ppl couldnt afford those gold prices they wouldnt be that high. If we see a reduction in our coin income(from any activity u do to get coins) the prices on things we buy and sell will fall as well. How big that price drop would be is hard to tell.

However even if these changes did happen. you can literally buy zen and insert it into the game creating coin. Regardless of what we read on forums people spend tons of $$$ on this game because they enjoy it. That $$$ pays for in-game coin(everything in the botique has a coin price comprable to the gold price) which constantly inserts coin into the game. The people who CS keep the game economy going. this is why we see so many things price'd highly imo. As long as people keep pumping money in the game It doesnt really matter if you create a few more money sinks the purchasing power of your coin wouldnt really change much. Also you cant forget about the people that merchant gold too. That also creates a fair amount of money itself.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Funny coming from the guy that can't even manage getting TT90

I know this was some time ago and I didn't have TT90 then, but it's funny seeing people who encourage farming talking to others who actually take their time farming instead of buying that they should get it faster, aka buy it instead (especially if we don't get 60 mil hand-outs).

(and if you do some calculation on mat prices most TT90 arcane isn't that worth it, except for the leggings)

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

/facepalm

I'm sure that you still actually believe that. I'll give it one last go.

The gold in-game comes from many people. Those people aren't spending any more money to get something so someone else can pay less. People who are charging zen and selling the gold in the gold trader are specifically doing so because they want coin. That gold is made available so anyone with coin so they can purchase that gold and use it. If someone else wants to buy that *cash shop item* with gold, the person who is buying that same item by using coin in the gold trader doesn't affect that price to the cash shop user at all.

So if 12 people are getting +12 refines, one of them is using coin, the cost of the refine will be the same for the 11 people who are getting that cash shop item. Gold trading relies on the simple premise that some people who have cash to spend will want in-game coin and that some people with in-game coin will want items from the cash shop. If I want to buy enough orbs to +12 an item with in-game coin, I am only relying on the people who are spending cash in the game because they want coin.

If you actually pay attention to gold trading and market prices along with sales, you will see there is enough people who sell gold to fund whatever anyone else wants in the cash shop over time, no matter how cheap or expensive the item may be. Nobody is getting hurt or ripped off. The cash shop users buying gold are relying and expecting that some person in-game will want to refine to +12 or whatever, so they can sell their gold and have the coin. It's a win-win situation really.

Of course, you're not arguing from a logical standpoint, you've got some misguided idealistic beliefs involved keeping you from understanding exactly why you're so off base.

b:bye

You're still missing the point.

Yes of course I agree, people who sell gold want to get coins. For whatever reason, they need coins. But this makes them even further from refining unless they use that coin to buy boutique items (which is kinda nonsensical unless they find cheap deals, like for most items).

Anyway, only charged zen has the potential to bring refining aids into circulation.

What you're saying is there's enough people to fund everyone else over time. Or an influx of new people to fund the old timers. Do you know what kind of scheme this sounds like? It sounds like a ponzi scheme. (in regards to refining aids)

A ponzi scheme falls if there's no new influx of people to spend money for the others' "profits". Because a ponzi scheme is just a form of merchanting. There is NO production whatsoever. Just moving around money. How do people "profit" from it? From new people's money.

The obvious downfall is, that those new people won't get profits until other new people jump in... and so on and so on, it is never ending and it will collapse. In game, though, "profits" are not compounding automatically, but someone will ALWAYS not be able to acquire it. Unless someone else jumps in, of course.


Let's assume, for sake of simplicity, 2000 gold equals +12.
Since this is the only method to bring refining aids into circulation, and if we want everyone to "be able" to get +12... how much would that amount on average per person?

Or... let's put this another way. If we have 100 people on the server who want to have +12 and work towards it. How much gold must be charged in total? This is the question you have not got the point of.

200,000 gold!

Now, each of those 100 people could charge 2000 on average, or ssomeone charge 100,000 and others far less. It doesn't matter, all it matters is you need a HUGE amount of gold to bring refining aids into circulation. That was my point.

How simpler can it be than this? There is nothing hidden about it. I have no idea what you don't understand.

Not saying that everyone must have +12. I'm saying that everyone who WANTS it and works towards it SHOULD be able to have it. REGARDLESS of new influx of players from whom to leech from. Because we are not running a ponzi scheme.

If someone sells gold for coins because he/she wants coins, then that makes that person impossible to get +12 himself/herself unless he/she charges even more. (assuming coins are used, for example, for skills or w/e else)


And mind you, that 2000 gold is only for refining one piece. There are a lot of other boutique-exclusive items as well...

Like I said, I don't care where the burden falls, my point is only that a LOT of gold has to be charged in order for people to get +12. Doesn't matter WHO charges it...

Hope that makes more sense to you now, tried to avoid trolling and w/e.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

SecretGem - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...
you can literally buy zen and insert it into the game creating coin. Regardless of what we read on forums people spend tons of $$$ on this game because they enjoy it. That $$$ pays for in-game coin(everything in the botique has a coin price comprable to the gold price) which constantly inserts coin into the game.

.... Also you cant forget about the people that merchant gold too. That also creates a fair amount of money itself.

wrong, cash shopping does not pump coins into the market. You can buy zen, and trade it for coins which is different than making new coins.

Also your point about gold merchanting actually reduces the amount of coins in game by taxes.

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

(and if you do some calculation on mat prices most TT90 arcane isn't that worth it, except for the leggings)

You're still missing the point.

Kinda sad this comes from a level 91. TT90 gold sleeve can be used as end game sleeve, green sleeve provides quite a good stats for the non channel stackers

TT90 green armor is kinda good for what you can find at that level.

TT90 boots sucks.

However, tt90 gears have a guaranteed 2-4 sockets, and all elemental resist.

There is nothing else better for an arcane at level 90(except for rank top, or generic gears with good add ons)

OHT armors that come later would be too expensive to craft in order to get one with all resists and good add ons, and good sockets.(except for boots and sleeves since theres a daily for that)

That being said, TT90 set is a decent set for its price.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

What you're saying is there's enough people to fund everyone else over time. Or an influx of new people to fund the old timers. Do you know what kind of scheme this sounds like? It sounds like a ponzi scheme. (in regards to refining aids)

Oh you have to be kidding. It's nothing like a Ponzi scheme at all. Your understanding of how gold trading works is seriously screwed if you even think that for an instant.

A ponzi scheme falls if there's no new influx of people to spend money for the others' "profits". Because a ponzi scheme is just a form of merchanting. There is NO production whatsoever. Just moving around money. How do people "profit" from it? From new people's money.

/facepalm

It's not a form of merchanting, it's a scam. It's promising people an epic payout if they give money, the first people involved in a Ponzi scheme win, the last people lose before the person who collects and distributes the funds cuts and runs. A merchanter just cannot do this. They can't sell something they don't have. The premise of a Ponzi sheme is that you have to put out your money first and wait for your payout. Merchanting requires people who want to sell and people who want to buy and without any product a merchanter can sell nothing. Jeez.

Now, each of those 100 people could charge 2000 on average, or ssomeone charge 100,000 and others far less. It doesn't matter, all it matters is you need a HUGE amount of gold to bring refining aids into circulation. That was my point.

How simpler can it be than this? There is nothing hidden about it. I have no idea what you don't understand.

Oh I understand what you're saying. You're just out-of-your-mind completely nuts and wrong about it.

You act as if there is some loss, or some gap that someone just has to lose for someone else to obtain *insert cash shop item bought with in-game coin from the boutique*. You are wrong.

Not saying that everyone must have +12. I'm saying that everyone who WANTS it and works towards it SHOULD be able to have it. REGARDLESS of new influx of players from whom to leech from. Because we are not running a ponzi scheme.

If someone sells gold for coins because he/she wants coins, then that makes that person impossible to get +12 himself/herself unless he/she charges even more. (assuming coins are used, for example, for skills or w/e else)

*sigh* you just don't get it. The person selling gold is getting exactly what they want. The person buying gold is getting exactly what they want. It's not a disservice to either. They both win. In a Ponzi scheme not everyone wins. Most people lose. The person in charge of it wins and many people get nothing.

Like I said, I don't care where the burden falls, my point is only that a LOT of gold has to be charged in order for people to get +12. Doesn't matter WHO charges it...

Hope that makes more sense to you now, tried to avoid trolling and w/e.

Sense to me? Most of what you've been saying is nonsense. Your logic is horrible. I've bolded the only thing that your long-winded post has correct. Everything is is a fallacy.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I know this was some time ago and I didn't have TT90 then, but it's funny seeing people who encourage farming talking to others who actually take their time farming instead of buying that they should get it faster, aka buy it instead (especially if we don't get 60 mil hand-outs).

It seems funny to you because you don't understand what's going on. When we tell people to farm, we aren't telling them to farm specifically what they want. We're telling them to just go and farm anything to acquire goods. Some of those goods will be stuff they want, but most will be stuff they don't want but other people do want.

They then sell the stuff they don't want to people who want it. They then use the money to buy stuff they want from people who don't want it.

You seem to be operating off the incorrect premise that if certain items exist in the system, that's it, the system cannot be made any more effective. That moving the items around in the system cannot provide value. It's trivial to prove that's wrong. Wizard gets a -interval item as a drop. BM gets a -channeling item as a drop. The system consists of a wizard and BM, a -interval item and a -channeling item. But the items aren't doing any good in the hands of the people who hold them. In fact, the system overall is just as effective as if the items didn't exist. It's practically indistinguishable from a system with just the wizard and BM, without those two items.

It's only when the wizard and BM trade those items to each other that the system gains value. The system does not gain value from the mere existence of items. The process of properly distributing the items for most effective use also adds value to the system. That is what trade and merchanting is - properly distributing items from people who got it but don't need it, to people who want it and will use it.

Heck, Ikea has a whole business model built around this. They sell you disassembled furniture. All the parts are there, but they aren't properly distributed. Leaving it disassembled it makes it easier for Ikea to ship and store the stuff, and saves them the labor cost of assembling it themselves. The purchaser then has to put in the work to distribute the parts in the most effective manner by assembling the furniture. That adds value to the product even though the composition of the final assembled product is exactly the same as what came in the box disassembled. Nothing has been added to the system. Its contents have just been rearranged.

That's why it's not a ponzi scheme. In a ponzi scheme, taking money from the new guy and giving it to the old guy doesn't increase the value of the system. It just takes something equally desired and needed by both people, and transfers it from one person to another for an arbitrary reason (seniority). In gold sales, a person who wants coin buys gold with $$ and sells it to a person who has coin but wants gold. Both persons benefit from the transaction.