Useless against Assassins?

1…5791011

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  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Vixre - Harshlands wrote: »
    Um... what? b:surrender

    don't worries about it?
    O.o'
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
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  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    "yesh me do....it depends on the class, fist bms and archers have most of their DPS come from their normal attack....me don't just go to the forum solely for teh lulz."
    Well then, considering assassins are a combination of the two it shouldn't be hard to figure out where their best damage potential comes from... and as most people here should know physical damage from skills lategame is awful. It's going to be similar for assassins... so they have a buff to compensate for the relatively low damage. But they give up their best source of damage output and become unable to kill heavies. CotD is hardly going to be a problem when you're at endgame.

    "an equal level and geared fist BM will be inferior to assassins."
    Depends what you're going for. Sins do more damage per hit and have more crit, but don't attack as fast as a BM. Other than the fact that you're already -.1 interval behind, it's also harder to get a weapon with the same amount of interval. Add cyclone heel for even more of a difference... Does it compensate? No, BMs are still behind in damage, but they get survivability and the ability to AOE. You trade one for the other... meaning neither is inferior to the other.

    "5 atk per second limit."
    Good luck reaching it without triple spark/cyclone heel/relentless. Irrelevant.


    Too bad trolling doesn't work if you're wrong...
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    "yesh me do....it depends on the class, fist bms and archers have most of their DPS come from their normal attack....me don't just go to the forum solely for teh lulz."
    Well then, considering assassins are a combination of the two it shouldn't be hard to figure out where their best damage potential comes from... and as most people here should know physical damage from skills lategame is awful. It's going to be similar for assassins... so they have a buff to compensate for the relatively low damage. But they give up their best source of damage output and become unable to kill heavies. CotD is hardly going to be a problem when you're at endgame.

    "an equal level and geared fist BM will be inferior to assassins."
    Depends what you're going for. Sins do more damage per hit and have more crit, but don't attack as fast as a BM. Me call in Kristoph's other side to combat Kristoph. http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=6394392&postcount=21 Other than the fact that you're already -.1 interval behind, it's also harder to get a weapon with the same amount of interval. Add cyclone heel for even more of a difference... Does it compensate? No, BMs are still behind in damage, but they get survivability and the ability to AOE. You trade one for the other... meaning neither is inferior to the other.

    "5 atk per second limit."
    Good luck reaching it without triple spark/cyclone heel/relentless. Irrelevant. again. (O.o)'


    Too bad trolling doesn't work if you're wrong...

    oooooo
    me think it be working
    xD
    me wasn't kidding when me say me read everything.
    ._.'
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
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  • rikako
    rikako Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    oooooo
    me think it be working
    xD
    me wasn't kidding when me say me read everything.
    ._.'

    he also mentioned how expensive it is compared to bm to reach an actual usefull attack speed
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    rikako wrote: »
    he also mentioned how expensive it is compared to bm to reach an actual usefull attack speed

    but it be possible to lolomgwtf own everyone.
    b:sin
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
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  • rikako
    rikako Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    but it be possible to lolomgwtf own everyone.
    b:sin

    true b:victory, but with that ammount of money spend, anyone can lolomfgwtf own anyone b:shocked
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    oooooo
    me think it be working
    xD
    me wasn't kidding when me say me read everything.
    ._.'
    Invalid argument. You were talking about equal level and gear, and sadly for you rank 8 costs quite a lot, meaning the BM has quite a bit of spare money for other things as rank 8 is useless for them. Oh, and daggers with -.1 interval only come in two variations at the moment. Rank 6 which isn't available and g13 nirvana. So lets waste the BMs money on g15 nirvana instead. Hope I don't need to inform you of the damage difference there... unless you'd like to attack slower? It's true that assassins -can- attack as fast as a BM, but a BM that spends the same amount of money would murder your damage advantage. Either way you won't be very far ahead of a BM in damage and behind in survivability + target control. Inferior? Hardly.


    And lol at the "Again". Good luck reaching it without triple spark. Even with all that you're still stuck at .25, which is not the cap. So I was right, too bad.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • Lusca - Sanctuary
    Lusca - Sanctuary Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    Silly Lusca this entire "argument" arose from teh fact you misunderstood Ignation and ElderSig.
    this be the starter post which me has argued against which you has thus far failed to defend.

    defend what?

    I say sins don't have a decent damage dealing 59 skill, which they don't
    regardless of how much you like the the other sin skills doesn't change the fact their only 59 skill with weapon attack is headhunt and only adds +100% weapon damage

    I say losing defense and attack speed with CotD would be ****ing stupid, and then few posts later you say you were just joking about the cotd thing

    So please what of my points have you argued with that I have failed to defend huh?
  • Incindere - Harshlands
    Incindere - Harshlands Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Jesus; note how no one really **** too much about sins' DD skills. But their utilities. So who the hell needs so many direct-damages when you have fifty bleeds and a stealth skill with absolutely no reprecussions at higher lvls.
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Incindere - Harshlands wrote: »
    Jesus; note how no one really **** too much about sins' DD skills. But their utilities. So who the hell needs so many direct-damages when you have fifty bleeds and a stealth skill with absolutely no reprecussions at higher lvls.
    Except that you have to watch out where you stealth, 'cause any AOE will take you out of it. It also has a cooldown. Already had a few assassins stealth right next to a mob, npc or player...


    And what? bleeds? assassins have one bleed skill and it absolutely sucks above lv70.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • Lusca - Sanctuary
    Lusca - Sanctuary Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    Except that you have to watch out where you stealth, 'cause any AOE will take you out of it. It also has a cooldown. Already had a few assassins stealth right next to a mob, npc or player...


    And what? bleeds? assassins have one bleed skill and it absolutely sucks above lv70.

    .

    puncture wound kicks the **** out of other Dots but it is still a Dot
  • Malaquey - Heavens Tear
    Malaquey - Heavens Tear Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If you can catch a sin out of stealth then you can easily kill him,
    because they almost always get the first hit in and you deal half you have to rely on metal skills.
    I like to go around with a bm who can destroy a sin and in return i kill robes for him.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    Invalid argument. You were talking about equal level and gear, and sadly for you rank 8 costs quite a lot, meaning the BM has quite a bit of spare money for other things as rank 8 is useless for them. Oh, and daggers with -.1 interval only come in two variations at the moment. Rank 6 which isn't available and g13 nirvana. So lets waste the BMs money on g15 nirvana instead. Hope I don't need to inform you of the damage difference there... unless you'd like to attack slower? It's true that assassins -can- attack as fast as a BM, but a BM that spends the same amount of money would murder your damage advantage. Either way you won't be very far ahead of a BM in damage and behind in survivability + target control. Inferior? Hardly. b:sad *waits for all daggers to be available for assassins.


    And lol at the "Again". Good luck reaching it without triple spark. Even with all that you're still stuck at .25, which is not the cap. So I was right, too bad.
    b:cry
    b:cry

    also silly Lusca here take a look at this. check out the archer skills. and QQ moar just because they be 59 skills doesn't mean they have to own.
    Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »
    defend what?

    I say sins don't have a decent damage dealing 59 skill, which they don't
    regardless of how much you like the the other sin skills doesn't change the fact their only 59 skill with weapon attack is headhunt and only adds +100% weapon damage

    I say losing defense and attack speed with CotD would be ****ing stupid, and then few posts later you say you were just joking about the cotd thing

    So please what of my points have you argued with that I have failed to defend huh?
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
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  • Incindere - Harshlands
    Incindere - Harshlands Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    Except that you have to watch out where you stealth, 'cause any AOE will take you out of it. It also has a cooldown. Already had a few assassins stealth right next to a mob, npc or player...


    And what? bleeds? assassins have one bleed skill and it absolutely sucks above lv70.

    So you're telling me.... Don't be an idiot and you'll be fine? Thank god. At least this class is idiot-proof, if nothing else. (but somehow, that proves to be false anyway)
  • Lusca - Sanctuary
    Lusca - Sanctuary Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    also silly Lusca here take a look at this. check out the archer skills. and QQ moar just because they be 59 skills doesn't mean they have to own.

    archers have barrage? or did you just not read that when i typed it out?

    but i seriously can't be ****ed arguing with some little kid that enjoys pretending to be a fuzzy rodent online
  • Hidden_Wolf - Harshlands
    Hidden_Wolf - Harshlands Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Honestly i find assassins a very easy class to beat there LA does **** to stop phys or mag def Archers can easily kill an assassin if they are smart and know there class
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »
    archers have barrage? or did you just not read that when i typed it out?

    but i seriously can't be ****ed arguing with some little kid that enjoys pretending to be a fuzzy rodent online

    that be all you can come up with huh?
    well then....
    Assassins have Subsea strike, Power Dash, +a heck of a lot more control skills.
    b:surrender
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
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    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
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  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Hidden_Wolf - Harshlands wrote: »
    Honestly i find assassins a very easy class to beat there LA does **** to stop phys or mag def Archers can easily kill an assassin if they are smart and know there class
    Says the level 65 Blademaster? Try playing an archer till the 80s before making assumptions. The problem isn't doing damage to the assassin, it's getting the chance to do damage to the assassin. Archers are also LA, in case you haven't noticed, and Assassins have stealth to guarantee first strike.

    @Lusca:
    Archers have three 59 skills: Barrage, Stormrage Eagleon, and Wings of Grace. One sucks horribly (Stormrage). One is useful, but not amazing, and is defensive in nature (Wings of Grace). One is amazing in group PvP, or any time when the target isn't ready to stun you out of it immediately (Barrage).

    Assassins have six 59 skills: Subsea Strike, Headhunt, Power Dash, Tidal Protection, Inner Harmony, and Shadow Teleport. Two seem fairly useless (Power Dash, Tidal Protection). One is good in group PvP, or possibly as an opener (Subsea Strike). One is a huge amount of free chi once per minute, which is likewise amazing (Inner Harmony). One is a very long range stun combined with a teleport, which is also amazing (Shadow Teleport). The final one is a decent source of damage and a good stun (Headhunt).

    Assassins have twice as many 59 skills as do Archers. Archers have 1 very good one, one decent one, and one horribly useless one. Assassins have THREE very good ones, one so-so one, and two fairly useless ones.

    Really. QUIT WHINING ABOUT YOUR 59 SKILLS. You're like a guy with a Lexus, a BMW, and a Mercedes complaining that their Volkswagen is bad.
  • Softie - Harshlands
    Softie - Harshlands Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    anybody ever thought 2 give archers a skill like hunter or some **** gives them increased awareness by 10 or 20...that would make them stronger 90+ and sins wouldnt be "OP"
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    (O.o)
    that could work.
    make archers able to see assassins
    :D
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Badazmofo - Dreamweaver
    Badazmofo - Dreamweaver Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »
    Not so much at 9x, but at 7x-8x it's theoretically possible. 9x I don't really expect to beat anyone in a fair fight, let alone one where the opponent gets complete tactical surprise. Also, I'm not sure what Thunderstorm maxes out at damage-wise, but that offers possibilities.

    edit: Thunderstorm's apparently 728, x6 for grounded close targets, so call it 4.2k + 2%/dex. Realistically a genie might have what, 70-80 dex? Call it 75 so ~10.5k, /4 for PvP so 2.6k. That would make it maybe a 5.2k crit before resistance, which sounds like it'd be enough to one-shot an unbuffed assassin, or one that's been Thunder Shocked. Entirely theorycrafting here though.

    *cough* i have over 90 dex on my geni with lvl 10 Tstorm.... pure and simple it pwns if i use my metal debuff it can hit a lvl 80+ barb for over half its hp but by time you debuff a sin and use Tstorm your dead b:cry it sucks on the + side if it does work it is normal a 1 shot b:laugh
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Lono_archer - Sanctuary
    Lono_archer - Sanctuary Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    well they gotta fix up some archer moves........b:sad
    Archers will need to attk fast....
    would winged pledge in sage work for archers???

    but will u go sage?b:surrender

    if ranged we should win, if not we lose.........
  • Lono_archer - Sanctuary
    Lono_archer - Sanctuary Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    and if we could see them.......
  • WarsouI - Sanctuary
    WarsouI - Sanctuary Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    if you could see them they would be trash ffs.. still cant see the point in not using domain and immunity potion as archer, maybe they will even release gear that will increase awareness? who knows.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    WarsouI - Sanctuary wrote: »
    if you could see them they would be trash ffs

    2 teleport skills with more range then pretty much any skill in game and they both be instant cast......me just saying.
    b:surrender

    so go give archers teh ability to see invisible assassins as like a level 79 skill or something
    b:sweat
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • WarsouI - Sanctuary
    WarsouI - Sanctuary Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    one stuns which doesnt let you move, yup.
    But the other one.. if you port and the enemy is flying around its pretty much no difference at all, pwi doesnt allows you to move & hit at the same time b:surrender
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    WarsouI - Sanctuary wrote: »
    one stuns which doesnt let you move, yup.
    But the other one.. if you port and the enemy is flying around its pretty much no difference at all, pwi doesnt allows you to move & hit at the same time b:surrender

    well the answer be simple....start off with the stun port, get on yer fairy wings, then do your lock combo.....
    me just saying
    -.-'

    and they try to fly away?
    well thats where your non stun teleport comes in to play.
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    WarsouI - Sanctuary wrote: »
    one stuns which doesnt let you move, yup.
    But the other one.. if you port and the enemy is flying around its pretty much no difference at all, pwi doesnt allows you to move & hit at the same time b:surrender
    Also, Tackling Slash has slightly longer range than melee. You can usually successfully hit a moving target with it right after the port.
  • WarsouI - Sanctuary
    WarsouI - Sanctuary Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Which isn't possible with domain on, if domain lasts 3 seconds (so does the stun port), your saved.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    WarsouI - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Which isn't possible with domain on, if domain lasts 3 seconds (so does the stun port), your saved.

    *cough*
    just domain yourself to make sure they can do a thing to stop you during the 1 second of invulnerability they have....(o and their genie be useless now due to teh energy cost)
    (domain doesn't break stun...me just saying)
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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