Useless against Assassins?

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Comments

  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Agreed, Domain is fairly useless as a counter unless you're prescient in your timing and manage to stop the stun in the first place. If it's used after the stun, at best it buys you enough time for the stun to wear off and to pop Wings of Grace to prevent the next stun, so you can run away.

    Badge of Courage (remove stun) seems like it may be more useful, if your reaction time is fast enough. Not sure of the energy cost, but it may even be possible (on a good genie) to use Badge of Courage, Thunderstorm, and an archer skill of your choice in quick succession. I'm inclined to think a quick Winged Pledge or Lightning Strike may work best, since a critical may well result in a dead assassin. Wings of Grace takes too long to cast, and an intelligent assassin would just go back into stealth rather than try to fight after the surprise attack is nullified.

    The other thing I haven't checked is the timing of the various coming-out-of-stealth actions. It displays the "teleporting/logging in" animation when the assassin is coming out, but I'm not sure if it shows up before or after the attack takes effect. In other words, if Absolute Domain or Fortify can be activated in time to prevent the initial stun by someone with fast reflexes.
  • rikako
    rikako Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ^write a bot like the ppl in guildwars do b:surrender
  • TroubleDD - Dreamweaver
    TroubleDD - Dreamweaver Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You know whats funny? As soon as a new class pops people whine about it, why? Because they dont know what to do about it.... Every class can be beat its not impossible you just have to figure out how to beat them. The trick? There isnt one.....I beat a lvl 99 Assassin with TT 99 Gold 4 socks Primevals Love up and Down all that its not impossible just have to figure out how. Me i learned and waited he stealthed i waited he poped up i stunned and sage sparked 5 shots he was dead >.>....its all about timing and learning its a wonderful concept you should try to learn
  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You're a barbarian. You have these things called "physical defense" and "HP". Archers are notably lacking in both. You should try learning the difference between classes and how they operate in PvP. There's a huge difference between beating an assassin (melee, physical damage) as a Heavy Armored class with over 10k HP and 8k PDef and beating an assassin as a Light Armor class with under 4k HP and 4k PDef.

    Admittedly, there may be a way for archers to counter an assassin other than by taking out a second mortgage. Part of this thread is us trying to come up with said way.
  • Sint - Harshlands
    Sint - Harshlands Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    immobilize/run (take aim or genie ranged blessing)
    ranged blessing + holy path (45 vit) might hurt them.

    dont know if this would stop them from teleporting though.

    for the dmg... expell. silence yourself in exchange for 9 seconds of physical imunity. (+1 sec per 40 dex)

    this probably requires you to change your genie though.
  • TroubleDD - Dreamweaver
    TroubleDD - Dreamweaver Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Wasnt meant to flame.....I understand each class and there weaknesses ive tried each just for that purpose.....The point is instead of complaining about a new class and whining about how hard it is and it needing to be nurfed and all that go ok well how do i beat this guy? Throwing a tantrum solves nothing ive seen so many post such as this one its almost laughable now........
  • Esuna - Raging Tide
    Esuna - Raging Tide Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    DarkHam - Harshlands wrote: »
    Most of you know how OP assassins are to Archers, but isn't this just a bit ridiculous?

    I mean before some classes were good at fighting others, like Mage vs BM, or Archer vs Cleric. But the BM and Cleric still had a fighting chance against the mage and archer. With these assassins it feels like an archer can't do anything but die, I mean seriously what the hell can an archer do to fight an assassin?

    I can't wait until they get nurfed -_-

    You're 8- and you probably don't even have most your skills properly leveled. You have enough defensive measures, the 79 skills, Wings of Grace, Plume Shell can all be used defensively. Popping a bramble rage on a sin usually 1hits it or finishes them off after a hit. Use more tools than just the narrow spec of skills you think are effective.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Gotta love the cash shop idiots.
  • Shadowvzs - Lost City
    Shadowvzs - Lost City Posts: 877 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »


    and were are these daggers with berserk?

    idk if already added but dont ahve berserk tt90 gold zerk dagger? (its obviously every melee weapon got zerk)

    if tt90 gold not got zerk (what i bet if this happened then later will be changed and will be zerk dagger) then there is the nirvana weapon:
    fixed Additional attributes:Sacrificial Strike / Advanced Sacrificial Strike / crit+3% / crit+4%
    Possible additional attributes: crit +1%~2%, MP+310, HP +350, STR +18 ~ 19, DEX +18 ~ 19, VIT +18~19,MAG +18 ~ 19 ~ 19, Attack lvl +1~2, Defense lvl + 1~2, Physical Damage Reduction 2%, phy attack +100/+130,attack lvl+3



    uh huh, and?



    if u checked then u know everybody die damn fast from a fist user who got 4attack/sec with spark burst. u dont have huge skill dmg but till a wizz cast a nuke u do more dmg and gain chi same time.

    (whatever the 30attack lv nice too with good combo before lv90 when ppl's not uber refined yet)

    few thing ..........
  • rikako
    rikako Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    tt90 dagger have no zerk, no dagger has zerk. no clue about nirvana until someone get it
  • steelmyth
    steelmyth Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Me thinks assassins should have the cooldown on shadow escape reset when they unstealth... They already have a bunch of defensive skills (deaden nerves, focused mind). If they want a skill to escape from combat they have to pay a price for it, and that would be being visible before the fight starts (they still have tele-stun, but at least you know what are you facing).

    So they either have element surprise, or they can get the hell outta there, but not both.

    Its a simple, minor change, which would silence many qqers out there. And Im sure assassins would understand it too...
  • Ignation - Lost City
    Ignation - Lost City Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »
    you want
    our force stealth removed
    our teleports range reduced
    for us not to be able to buff while in stealth
    AND you want us to lose defense when using chill of the deep?

    i can understand not wanting us to be able to spark while in stealth, but i believe our buffs should be given longer timers, otherwise the only time they will be used in pvp is in duels

    i can understand wanting the teleports range to be reduced

    i can understand having a problem with the forced stealth

    but messing with chill of the deep as well? you ****ing kidding me?
    look at all the sins 59 skills, ONLY one of them has +% of weapon damage and that is headhunt and it only has 100% at level 10

    every other class has a hard hitting 59 skill
    bm > Myriad Sword Stance/Heaven's Flame(yes i know the damage from this isn't as good as head hunt but the amp effect is waaay better than the sin amp)

    wizzie > blade tempest/black ice dragon

    barb > prediction

    veno > parasitic nova

    archer > barrage(yes i know you can't use it close up and you all QQ you just get stunned out of it, but it has it's uses(pve/tw)

    cleric > tempest

    psychic > red tide

    now i know sins are OP and you all want them nerfed but seriously, try not to get **** about it

    we lose all melee ability with CotD for 30 attack levels and then our only skill that really has a chance to break someones charm isn't all that great damage wise AND it is one of our two only stuns that we have, our other stun having a 90 second cool down and only lasting 3 seconds

    yes there are some points about sins that could be changed to make things seem a bit more fair, but chill of the deep is not one of those things

    Watch your mouth boy when you say the word "****", I know this is a late response but I really don't care.

    You did not understand a single word I said boy, Sins have a high damage output, they can stealth whenever they want, don't give me that **** about cooldown on stealth, you can wait for it to cooldown, or if you are geared properly, you can take a lot of hits and survive until you can use it again.

    Melee ability? are you kidding me boy? only people who actually use normal attacks are Fist BMs, everyone, and I mean every other class spams skills to get through the opponents charms, so making chill of the deep reduce your attack speed is freaking pointless.

    And I bet you read what MagicHamsta said, so yea, he's like a mind reader o.O that's what I was gonna say.

    Archers don't have a lot of skills that depend on your weapon or something like that, that was already mentioned, and on top of that, they have long casting time.

    I don't care if you are able to buff under stealth, or have a really long teleport range, of course these are OP, but to be honest, I really don't care, the only things I care about are

    Sins can force stealth AND gain chi? seriously? are you kidding me?
    And the fact that any other class besides a Sin can't locate them at all, nothing have been introduced to make us locate you.

    Think about it boy, if awareness pots that actually work and are there to be purchased by everyone, will you lose your advantage as being a stealth class? NO.

    Why? because when I go out of a safezone I won't be spamming pots every 30 seconds or every 15 seconds just to locate some fish.
    "It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."
  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »
    If you want to run away you should maybe be using elven alacrity instead of wings of grace?

    Or am I confused about something?
    Elven Alacrity is better than Wings of Grace for running away, yes. Not sure how many archers actually get the 79 skills though, while every archer has Wings of Grace.

    Winged Shell will stop one, maybe two hits at most. It also does nothing to prevent stuns.

    The genie skill Ranged Blessing (aka Stunning Blast) is worthless. It only works on targets that are basically right next to you, and is only a freeze not a stun.

    Expel works as a survival skill, but not as a counter skill. If the best we can hope for is to burn charm, genie stamina, and apothecary powders just so we can run away, then we're still pretty useless against assassins, no?

    Before I can think of any other viable options, I need to check the timing of the effects on coming out of stealth anyway. If there's no window between the animation appearing and the stun taking effect, then the only things I can really think of to actually fight back, not just survive to run away, remain hoping for a thunderstorm critical, or using Badge of Courage and hoping you last long enough to fight back.
  • DarkHam - Harshlands
    DarkHam - Harshlands Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Esuna - Raging Tide wrote: »
    You're 8- and you probably don't even have most your skills properly leveled. You have enough defensive measures, the 79 skills, Wings of Grace, Plume Shell can all be used defensively. Popping a bramble rage on a sin usually 1hits it or finishes them off after a hit. Use more tools than just the narrow spec of skills you think are effective.

    lol almost all my usefull skills that can be maxed, are maxed. And I have the ones that cant be maxed, as high as possible.

    I'm not a poorly equipped archer, Im level 80 and have around 3.4k HP and a +5 Crimson Soulsmasher and I'm STILL getting owned by assassins easily.

    Wings of Grace costs a spark, and I don't ALWAYS have a spark to use. If I had a spark, i'd use it for a spark eruption instead of WoG because the cast time for WoG is slower and they can interrupt it. Winged shell costs chi, and I don't always have chi to spare, besides it's a crappy shield that only absorbs 810ish damage, most assassins can get rid of that in 1 hit.

    I notice that a lot of people saying that sins arn't OP are the classes that can actually fight them, Barb, BM, Veno..

    Level up an archer to 7x, or 8x then fight an assassin 5 levels lower than you. Then sit back and watch how useless you are against him or her
  • Chezedude - Dreamweaver
    Chezedude - Dreamweaver Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    expel >> metal >> stun >> win
    youtube.com/chezedude
  • Sint - Harshlands
    Sint - Harshlands Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »
    we lose all melee ability with CotD for 30 attack levels and then our only skill that really has a chance to break someones charm isn't all that great damage wise AND it is one of our two only stuns that we have, our other stun having a 90 second cool down and only lasting 3 seconds

    only 2 stuns? omg how unfair, you should have bm stuns O_O archers have 1 stun!!!1!!!1!shiftone. and it can miss. and even if it doesnt miss, it has a 10% chance to fail.

    and while i'm at it, you have 2 stuns (8 seconds total) a 5 second sleep, a 4 second seal (with an 8 second cooldown) and enough chi gain to keep casting all of that.

    i fought a sin 12 lvls lower than me, i spent most of my time either stunned or sealed.

    face it, most people who play sin probably cant handle the game any other way.

    PS:
    Chezedude - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    expel >> metal >> stun >> win

    expell silences you. i believe that means your casting is locked.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If the forums be any indication, me think we be safe from assassins as most of the assassin population has no idea what they be capable.
    b:chuckle
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
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  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    If the forums be any indication, me think we be safe from assassins as most of the assassin population has no idea what they be capable.
    b:chuckle
    The problem is, all the competent assassins know they're overpowered, and don't waste their time debating it in the forums.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    but all teh incompetent assassins come here and me faceroll them.
    b:surrender
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Sint - Harshlands
    Sint - Harshlands Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    but all teh incompetent assassins come here and me faceroll them.
    b:surrender

    there is no degree of incompetence apliccable to an assasin who doesnt go invis before getting near you.

    most **** OP fact: SINS HAVE MORE RANGE THAN SAGE ARCHERS. Not to mention they can interrupt casting from that distance too...
  • Chezedude - Dreamweaver
    Chezedude - Dreamweaver Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sint - Harshlands wrote: »


    expell silences you. i believe that means your casting is locked.

    did I say you cast it on yourself?
    youtube.com/chezedude
  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Chezedude - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    did I say you cast it on yourself?
    Expels a ally from the physical world.
    Silences the target but grants
    immunity to physical damage for 4.5 seconds.
    For non-hostile units.

    Reasonably certain an assassin that's just tele-stunned you counts as hostile. However, we all know skill descriptions can be horribly wrong at times, so anyone that already has Expel want to test it for us?
  • Boozer - Lost City
    Boozer - Lost City Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    TroubleDD - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    You know whats funny? As soon as a new class pops people whine about it, why? Because they dont know what to do about it.... Every class can be beat its not impossible you just have to figure out how to beat them. The trick? There isnt one.....I beat a lvl 99 Assassin with TT 99 Gold 4 socks Primevals Love up and Down all that its not impossible just have to figure out how. Me i learned and waited he stealthed i waited he poped up i stunned and sage sparked 5 shots he was dead >.>....its all about timing and learning its a wonderful concept you should try to learn

    LOL sais the barb, the hardest class to kill in the game.

    Sins dont do **** to me either - it comes with our class. They tickle me and im pretty sure they tickle you to. Try thinking what it would be like having 10k less hp and 6k less phy def and having those daggers chopping you up.

    Its not about skills or timing here its about class/build/armor. Doesnt bother us the least if they stealth, since we can chill and wait til they pop up again and timing with anti stun/stun is not a problem if you can tank someone 4ever. It is so much harder tho if you will get 1-3 shoot as soon as they pop up behind you.
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »
    Expels a ally from the physical world.
    Silences the target but grants
    immunity to physical damage for 4.5 seconds.
    For non-hostile units.

    Reasonably certain an assassin that's just tele-stunned you counts as hostile. However, we all know skill descriptions can be horribly wrong at times, so anyone that already has Expel want to test it for us?

    LOL... are you serious... very clueless for someone on a pvp server. there is no hostile units outside of tw and duels. in the wild... everyone is as friendly as friendly gets. don't believe me... just go ask all those who triple sparks in front of me only to get sealed and wracked with metal.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Impetus - Lost City
    Impetus - Lost City Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You know when you attack and you get that red flashy outline around your name? Yeah, that's what hostile is. Self buffs (sparking) don't trigger hostility. Hitting someone does. Obviously someone can spark beside you and not be hostile because they haven't hit you yet. 101 and STILL can't grasp that fact. >.>



    P.S. Sins faceroll anything short of Heavy Armor, 'nuff said. We squishies have to deal with the fact that we can never kill (a smart) sin QQ
  • TigerLily - Lost City
    TigerLily - Lost City Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    This tread will never die b:shocked

    I think someone should make a tread about how OP endgame hell barbs are to archers instead b:surrender.

    99+ Barbs are far more Op than sins will ever be, but i guess we are all used to the fact that they cant die 1v1 and will 1 shoot you with armageddon or onslaught crit. My lvl 9X barb has more crit than my lvl 101 archer btw, when his demon onslaught procs. But we just accept barbs are superior since the class has been around since start.

    Or make a tread about OP rank8 wizards are to archers. I get 1 shoot 10k with a tiny gush while the rank8 archers does like 2-3k crit and cant even bypass my charm b:cry.

    I really really dont give a **** about sins compare to the above predators, sins do lowbie dmg and all they do is annoy you with stealth.
  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    LOL... are you serious... very clueless for someone on a pvp server. there is no hostile units outside of tw and duels. in the wild... everyone is as friendly as friendly gets. don't believe me... just go ask all those who triple sparks in front of me only to get sealed and wracked with metal.
    Mm. And just how do you propose to do this to an invisible assassin, I wonder?

    Also, the bit with "Reasonably certain" is called sarcasm.
  • Sint - Harshlands
    Sint - Harshlands Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »
    FIXED!
    b:chuckle

    more range than sage archers, period. i'm not making an exception for the 2(?) sage archers who insist on using a bow with +range mod.
  • Chezedude - Dreamweaver
    Chezedude - Dreamweaver Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Impetus - Lost City wrote: »
    You know when you attack and you get that red flashy outline around your name? Yeah, that's what hostile is. Self buffs (sparking) don't trigger hostility. Hitting someone does. Obviously someone can spark beside you and not be hostile because they haven't hit you yet. 101 and STILL can't grasp that fact. >.>

    obviously never used it, so don't assume descriptions are just what you expect.
    Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »
    Mm. And just how do you propose to do this to an invisible assassin, I wonder?

    And just how do you propose an assassin can kill you while invisible, I wonder?
    youtube.com/chezedude
  • SilentReaper - Harshlands
    SilentReaper - Harshlands Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Chezedude - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    And just how do you propose an assassin can kill you while invisible, I wonder?

    The point is, assassins have a tendency to use their sparks and buffs while in stealth, before attacking you. So you don't see anything coming until you're already taking massive damage. It's hard to react to them, thus the purpose of assassins.
  • Chezedude - Dreamweaver
    Chezedude - Dreamweaver Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    SilentReaper - Harshlands wrote: »
    The point is, assassins have a tendency to use their sparks and buffs while in stealth, before attacking you. So you don't see anything coming until you're already taking massive damage. It's hard to react to them, thus the purpose of assassins.

    well if you die faster in a period of time shorter than your reaction time (maybe 2-3 seconds for slow people?), then I don't think an assassin's invisibility is the main reason to why you were getting killed. After all anyone could have dropped on you from the sky and killed you similarly if you can't survive for 2 seconds, so no genie skill can help you if you can't even react fast enough to click it.
    youtube.com/chezedude

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