Useless against Assassins?

DarkHam - Harshlands
DarkHam - Harshlands Posts: 47 Arc User
edited March 2010 in Archer
Most of you know how OP assassins are to Archers, but isn't this just a bit ridiculous?

I mean before some classes were good at fighting others, like Mage vs BM, or Archer vs Cleric. But the BM and Cleric still had a fighting chance against the mage and archer. With these assassins it feels like an archer can't do anything but die, I mean seriously what the hell can an archer do to fight an assassin?

I can't wait until they get nurfed -_-
Post edited by DarkHam - Harshlands on
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Comments

  • Narukanikahn - Harshlands
    Narukanikahn - Harshlands Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    tbh doesnt really take much to kill you.....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DarkHam - Harshlands
    DarkHam - Harshlands Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Narukanikahn - Harshlands wrote: »
    tbh doesnt really take much to kill you.....

    Yeah it doesn't take much for you to kill me Naru. You are 20 levels above me and you are probobly one of the best equipped archers on HL.

    But your huge ego probably blinds you from that fact.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    uh....mayhaps...
    genie out of their stun, close range aoe metal attack.....
    stun arrow, normal attack?
    b:sweat

    o and pray that you crit and not miss/get resisted the whole time.
    xD
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
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    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
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  • Narukanikahn - Harshlands
    Narukanikahn - Harshlands Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    i r naru i has huge ego i r blinded by it gtfo, kill sins by stabdung next to a mob and use tangeling mire, knows out of stealth and they cant re enter
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Narukanikahn - Harshlands wrote: »
    i r naru i has huge ego i r blinded by it gtfo, kill sins by stabdung next to a mob and use tangeling mire, knows out of stealth and they cant re enter at least until they figure out they has Shadow Escape.....and realize they has an instant teleport/stun skill...with a 35 meter cast range.....

    b:surrender
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
    1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Absoluth - Heavens Tear
    Absoluth - Heavens Tear Posts: 764 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Quit or play other class. Seriously. PWI's failure to balance classes has always been present, and if they havent even tried to fix the overpowered veno after over an year, what makes you think they'll do it now?
    They wont nerf tideborns anytime soon due to a high amount of players who want overpowered classes and are burning oracles/hyper stones to achieve fast lvs. Its all about the money.

    Archers have no real buffs. Archers depends on evasion, which is a neglated aspect of the game. Archers get nerfed with close-range and our 'push away' skills are useless. Archer's defenses rely purely on light armor, which is **** on both ends, while other classes have skills to boost up def. Unlike some other classses, we cant get by with so-so gear in TW.

    Either you accept the dificulties knowing PWI will never make your life easier, or play an overpowered class and turn on easy-mode.
    PWI:
    "Free to play. Pay to win"

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • TurismoX - Lost City
    TurismoX - Lost City Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Y'know, this is probably how I feel about Barbs that can actually hit me.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    TurismoX - Lost City wrote: »
    Y'know, this is probably how I feel about Barbs that can actually hit me.

    pointremember folks sins have a tendency to break...easily

    seriously if a bm or barb zerks or crits even once they drop

    and unlike archers kiting isnt an option for them

    and they have no real way of punching through HA like bm's can (literaly) and no access to the oneshotanythingness of arma at late/endgame

    both the new classes are high end offence but are made of paper up close...


    hint:jump a lot shadow teleport and tele stun dont deal with rapid elavation chages well
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Restat to fist, get some interval gear and use domain.


    No but seriously... if they catch you off guard out of stealth, use a skill like domain or something similar, then follow it up with wings of grace and spam close range skills or drop/run away and stun them. Once their stuns are on cooldown they're going to have to run or die if you play it right.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'd say an archer can sort of get by with so-so gear in TW (lol who am i kidding LA is "so-so gear" period)...but absolutely needs a good weapon.

    About sin vs archer...the other comparison i could make with sin is maybe bm. well bm normal attacks don't actually hurt that much...they just make up for it in other ways like high skill damage, dragon, fast attack speed during stuns.

    Here you have a class in which their attacks do hurt, and they are able to stun lock for a good bit of time as well as have high skill damage. it's definitely a lot harder than other melee classes to deal with i think.

    and just as i've had chain crits as much as 5 times in a row, i expect lucky sins to possibly cause wtf moments with their dodges as well...
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The thing is... people will always argue a Sin is easy to drop.

    And they are.

    The trick is catching them and killing them before they Shadow Escape and stealth away to either flee or to come up behind you and brutalise you so fast you can't even cry for momma. If they are also charmed you need to break through that charm and kill them as fast as humanly (elvenly?) possible before they do Shadow Escape, or use that marvellous teleport skill and stun your ****.

    Wings of Grace is a huge help here, but it doesn't really last long enough. A sin has more than one or two stuns and if you ever fight a BM and have them catch you then you're probably already aware that if they have more than two stuns and aren't completely stupid they will simply wait WoG out and attempt to keep you at close range so that the instant WoG's effects end you're in a stunlock and you're dead.

    Genie skills help to prolong this but, again, smart sins will wait it out - they'll attempt to kill you without their stuns and then stun you the instant they can.

    The trick is to, basically, kill them before they kill you, and it's very difficult. Sins are pure bred PvP class and one who knows what he's doing has the upper hand against nearly every other class short of heavy armor sage barbs with so much HP they just wouldn't bother to try and kill it. The thing they don't have going for them is they're Light Armor (although then again, Ri$en on DW now has Nirvana gear... I'm wondering if the fact he's wearing the worst def and HP per refine armor matters with the stats on those gears. >> )

    You can kill them despite their OPness. But it is by no means easy (when is it ever easy for an archer who wears the crappiest armor endgame and has to sacrifice a bit of dex for strength so that they can use fists, etc. etc?) and if you thought it would be easy...

    you will sadly have to reroll and be very disappointed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • TigerLily - Lost City
    TigerLily - Lost City Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    DarkHam - Harshlands wrote: »
    Most of you know how OP assassins are to Archers, but isn't this just a bit ridiculous?

    I mean before some classes were good at fighting others, like Mage vs BM, or Archer vs Cleric. But the BM and Cleric still had a fighting chance against the mage and archer. With these assassins it feels like an archer can't do anything but die, I mean seriously what the hell can an archer do to fight an assassin?

    I can't wait until they get nurfed -_-

    Most well-geared classes are OP to archers 90+ b:bye

    Really no clue why you would single out sins as more OP. A 100+ barb for example is far more OP than a sin can ever be. Sins dont have 20k hp and can 1 shoot you for 30k dmg b:chuckle.

    Archers need to get amped, instead of "nurfing " the poor sins. They dont even have elemental attacks and will have to face barbs/fist bm in mele range in squishy LA armour.
  • DarkHam - Harshlands
    DarkHam - Harshlands Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Absoluth - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Quit or play other class. Seriously. PWI's failure to balance classes has always been present, and if they havent even tried to fix the overpowered veno after over an year, what makes you think they'll do it now?
    They wont nerf tideborns anytime soon due to a high amount of players who want overpowered classes and are burning oracles/hyper stones to achieve fast lvs. Its all about the money.

    Archers have no real buffs. Archers depends on evasion, which is a neglated aspect of the game. Archers get nerfed with close-range and our 'push away' skills are useless. Archer's defenses rely purely on light armor, which is **** on both ends, while other classes have skills to boost up def. Unlike some other classses, we cant get by with so-so gear in TW.

    Either you accept the dificulties knowing PWI will never make your life easier, or play an overpowered class and turn on easy-mode.

    I think the reason why they havnt nurfed the "OP Veno class" is because the Nix costs what, 200$ to get if you buy it? A pet worth 200$ BETTER be OP, or else it would be a waste of money.

    A veno without a nix is the easiest class for me to kill.

    What i'm saying is, a sin with "decent" gear and one who is 10 levels below me can still kill me with ease. And I have pretty good armor and weapon.


    I wont reroll because despite what other people say, I've seen archers that are good endgame, and Im holding out hope that when they raise the level cap they will release new skills that will make archers stronger.
  • Djaen - Lost City
    Djaen - Lost City Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    DarkHam - Harshlands wrote: »
    I think the reason why they havnt nurfed the "OP Veno class" is because the Nix costs what, 200$ to get if you buy it? A pet worth 200$ BETTER be OP, or else it would be a waste of money.

    A veno without a nix is the easiest class for me to kill.

    What i'm saying is, a sin with "decent" gear and one who is 10 levels below me can still kill me with ease. And I have pretty good armor and weapon.


    I wont reroll because despite what other people say, I've seen archers that are good endgame, and Im holding out hope that when they raise the level cap they will release new skills that will make archers stronger.

    ha thats funny, thats only if they refine the **** out of their gear or if you are transend b:surrender
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    DarkHam - Harshlands wrote: »
    I think the reason why they havnt nurfed the "OP Veno class" is because the Nix costs what, 200$ to get if you buy it? A pet worth 200$ BETTER be OP, or else it would be a waste of money.

    A veno without a nix is the easiest class for me to kill.

    What i'm saying is, a sin with "decent" gear and one who is 10 levels below me can still kill me with ease. And I have pretty good armor and weapon.


    I wont reroll because despite what other people say, I've seen archers that are good endgame, and Im holding out hope that when they raise the level cap they will release new skills that will make archers stronger.

    uhh...the piece of paper in my tome box is worth 150m which is more or less 300 gold converted to coin, and you don't see me bleeding people for 2k a tick. "it costs money" is not a valid excuse for something being overpowered in general because of how much high end gear costs anyway. (not arguing whether bleed is overpowered or not but just saying)
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • DarkHam - Harshlands
    DarkHam - Harshlands Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    uhh...the piece of paper in my tome box is worth 150m which is more or less 300 gold converted to coin, and you don't see me bleeding people for 2k a tick. "it costs money" is not a valid excuse for something being overpowered in general because of how much high end gear costs anyway. (not arguing whether bleed is overpowered or not but just saying)

    What I'm saying is Veno's have to spend over 200$ to become OP. Assassins don't have to spend that much to become OP and completely dominate archers.
  • wnight
    wnight Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    At 1v1 Assassin can only dream to kill Archer if Archer knows his char(Duel)
    At TW little bit harder but still if you have pay attention what is going on on the field Assassin has litle close to none chance to kill you so stop whinning and learn you char. b:scorn
  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    wnight wrote: »
    At 1v1 Assassin can only dream to kill Archer if Archer knows his char(Duel)
    At TW little bit harder but still if you have pay attention what is going on on the field Assassin has litle close to none chance to kill you so stop whinning and learn you char. b:scorn
    Duels aren't PvP. In world PvP, archers stand almost no chance of killing a similarly-leveled assassin 1v1. The assassin has many more stuns, high spike damage, and the ability to always get the first shot in. If things start going badly, they can force stealth. Barring a critical one-shot, there's no way the archer is going to actually kill the assassin.
  • Bobzl - Sanctuary
    Bobzl - Sanctuary Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    sins are op b:cry

    first time i ever fought a sin was in a duel. sin was only lvl 85 or so and he won >.<

    when i looked back on the damage log it read 1, 1, 2000, 1, u have been defeated b:shocked and i was like: what the fuxs D:

    -although to be fair to myself, i knew nothing about sins, and took it easy cause i felt sorry for the little lvl 8x, and dueled him again and won xD

    but seriously, it sucked >.<
  • Technotic - Sanctuary
    Technotic - Sanctuary Posts: 591 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    i made a post about this, it got closed because everyone realized how overpowered tideborn is and Admin/GMs got upset QQ
    Say my name 3 times, I dare you.

    ~Technotic
    TrueMyths.Guildplex.com
  • NonameWiz - Sanctuary
    NonameWiz - Sanctuary Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i made a post about this, it got closed because everyone realized how overpowered tideborn is and Admin/GMs got upset QQ

    Give it a couple months and then there'll be more QQ in Sin's forum cuz they get nerfed b:laugh
    Rank 8 Wizard: 1% farm b:shutup
  • Technotic - Sanctuary
    Technotic - Sanctuary Posts: 591 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    XD I loves you! you can just dragon breath though and they can't get ya lol
    Say my name 3 times, I dare you.

    ~Technotic
    TrueMyths.Guildplex.com
  • FanFon - Dreamweaver
    FanFon - Dreamweaver Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    NonameWiz - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Give it a couple months and then there'll be more QQ in Sin's forum cuz they get nerfed b:laugh

    And right after that they will nerf barbs hp and give archers 20% more crit and release a 200k heal charm that has a 2 second cooldown that only cost 40 gold b:laugh
  • Camerlengo - Dreamweaver
    Camerlengo - Dreamweaver Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i made a post about this, it got closed because everyone realized how overpowered tideborn is and Admin/GMs got upset QQ

    No, it got closed because I got tired of your BS and made a few threads pointing out what is "overpowered" about the other races. Just because the Tideborn beat you in a few duels (which are NOT a good indicator of PVP ability)- or maybe even in open PVP, does not mean they are overpowered. People (ie: you) haven't found a way to uberpwn them yet, which makes you upset and QQ all. over. the. forums. It's nauseating, just suck it up and deal with it. The classes are more balanced than you think- Soulburn is a little excessive, but that's what patches are for.
    Full power to the Vagiroscope!
  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Camerlengo - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    No, it got closed because I got tired of your BS and made a few threads pointing out what is "overpowered" about the other races. Just because the Tideborn beat you in a few duels (which are NOT a good indicator of PVP ability)- or maybe even in open PVP, does not mean they are overpowered. People (ie: you) haven't found a way to uberpwn them yet, which makes you upset and QQ all. over. the. forums. It's nauseating, just suck it up and deal with it. The classes are more balanced than you think- Soulburn is a little excessive, but that's what patches are for.
    The forum mods basically said "a plague on both your houses" and banished each of the "___ are overpowered" threads into the lower depths.

    Your level 54 PvE server avatar does very little to make you a credible source, by the way. Perhaps you should post on a character that's actually got, you know, real PvP experience?

    Personally I don't see anything about Psychics that's horribly unbalanced. I still haven't a clue, either in theory or in practice, as to how to defeat a similarly leveled/geared competent Assassin in 1v1 though. In group PvP Assassins don't seem nearly so powerful, but that's another situation entirely.
  • TurismoX - Lost City
    TurismoX - Lost City Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think everyone is still balanced right now.

    It's good as is, it's just that the Tideborn are still relatively new, so strategies haven't really came to peoples minds on how to beat them.

    I know I'm only mid levelled, and we ain't got our new skills yet, but I know BMs and Barbs are basically always going to be tough.
    I know I will be one shot by a decent wizard/archer at higher levels if they spot me first.

    Everything seems balanced to me.
  • Camerlengo - Dreamweaver
    Camerlengo - Dreamweaver Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »
    The forum mods basically said "a plague on both your houses" and banished each of the "___ are overpowered" threads into the lower depths.

    Your level 54 PvE server avatar does very little to make you a credible source, by the way. Perhaps you should post on a character that's actually got, you know, real PvP experience?

    Personally I don't see anything about Psychics that's horribly unbalanced. I still haven't a clue, either in theory or in practice, as to how to defeat a similarly leveled/geared competent Assassin in 1v1 though. In group PvP Assassins don't seem nearly so powerful, but that's another situation entirely.

    I post on my highest character, so my LC Sin will be showing up in a little while... I don't put too much stock in the server a person plays on, anyone can give good advice or use sound and valid arguments- carebear or no.
    Full power to the Vagiroscope!
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »
    Duels aren't PvP. In world PvP, archers stand almost no chance of killing a similarly-leveled assassin 1v1. The assassin has many more stuns, high spike damage, and the ability to always get the first shot in. If things start going badly, they can force stealth. Barring a critical one-shot, there's no way the archer is going to actually kill the assassin.

    Critical one-shot...well forget about those lol...do you see 9x archers 1 shotting each other? then it's not going to happen with archer vs sin fights...our skill damage is just not that high.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Critical one-shot...well forget about those lol...do you see 9x archers 1 shotting each other? then it's not going to happen with archer vs sin fights...our skill damage is just not that high.

    Not so much at 9x, but at 7x-8x it's theoretically possible. 9x I don't really expect to beat anyone in a fair fight, let alone one where the opponent gets complete tactical surprise. Also, I'm not sure what Thunderstorm maxes out at damage-wise, but that offers possibilities.

    edit: Thunderstorm's apparently 728, x6 for grounded close targets, so call it 4.2k + 2%/dex. Realistically a genie might have what, 70-80 dex? Call it 75 so ~10.5k, /4 for PvP so 2.6k. That would make it maybe a 5.2k crit before resistance, which sounds like it'd be enough to one-shot an unbuffed assassin, or one that's been Thunder Shocked. Entirely theorycrafting here though.
  • Zephyl - Harshlands
    Zephyl - Harshlands Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Camerlengo - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I post on my highest character, so my LC Sin will be showing up in a little while... I don't put too much stock in the server a person plays on, anyone can give good advice or use sound and valid arguments- carebear or no.

    Objection yeah they can make valid arguments and give advice but someone who has ACTUAL Pvp experience with a sin (which you most likely dont) can tell you that Sins can kill a archer easy(Not duels)same can probably be said for other robes......sneak at you...attack...disapear....attack dead all that while having you not moving b:surrender

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