Requesting an official respnse in regards to Nirvana recasting process

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  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    frankieraye wrote: »
    Hi,

    The post you originally referred to (http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=517862) was a preview of how this system would work. The post itself was made on 11-18-2009 at 03:00 PM--about a month before the system was actually patched into the game.

    At the time, we were under the impression that the necessary material for keeping refinery, sockets, etc..-- a certain Cash Shop item (Chienkun Stones), would be implemented along with the patch. This unfortunately was not the case, and the item remains under development for the time-being.

    Initially, the Cash Shop item (Chienkun Stones) was required for any kind of action with regards to Nirvana Gear creation/modification-- including the "Reforge" option. Hoping to soften the blow that the lack of this item would cause, we were able to rework the "Reforge" option so that the Chienkun stones were no longer required for the refinery/socket transfer to be possible.

    So as you can see, we've been working with what we have to make this process more accessible, but we do apologize for the misunderstanding that arose from this preview, which was published under the assumption that the necessary item would be implemented in time.

    Thanks,
    FrankieRaye :)

    *hug* More cool points for you.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • Miharu - Raging Tide
    Miharu - Raging Tide Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Frankie, why does your avatar have a 105 next to it instead of the normal GM level, "GM"?
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    *hug* More cool points for you.

    No schmoozying up to the CM for mod points. b:scorn

    That being said, thank you for the well explained reply frankie. A lot of the time we only get half replies and shut down, and that was much much better b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
    "We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
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  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Aadi - Lost City wrote: »
    No schmoozying up to the CM for mod points. b:scorn

    That being said, thank you for the well explained reply frankie. A lot of the time we only get half replies and shut down, and that was much much better b:victory

    You would hug him, too...you know that. An amazing and well-explained reply, just like you said.

    ...and...MAYBE...a few mod points...

    b:avoid
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You would hug him, too...you know that. An amazing and well-explained reply, just like you said.

    ...and...MAYBE...a few mod points...

    b:avoid

    I can't deny that b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
    "We talk about you because you're fab. b:cute" -Chillum
    "You live for forums. Like seriously."
  • Miharu - Raging Tide
    Miharu - Raging Tide Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You would hug him, too...you know that. An amazing and well-explained reply, just like you said.

    ...and...MAYBE...a few mod points...

    b:avoid

    Really confused now. b:shocked
  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Aadi - Lost City wrote: »
    I can't deny that b:surrender

    b:victory

    b:cute
    Miharu - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Really confused now. b:shocked

    ...just walk away, walk away...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    frankieraye wrote: »
    Hi,

    The post you originally referred to (http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=517862) was a preview of how this system would work. The post itself was made on 11-18-2009 at 03:00 PM--about a month before the system was actually patched into the game.

    At the time, we were under the impression that the necessary material for keeping refinery, sockets, etc..-- a certain Cash Shop item (Chienkun Stones), would be implemented along with the patch. This unfortunately was not the case, and the item remains under development for the time-being.

    Initially, the Cash Shop item (Chienkun Stones) was required for any kind of action with regards to Nirvana Gear creation/modification-- including the "Reforge" option. Hoping to soften the blow that the lack of this item would cause, we were able to rework the "Reforge" option so that the Chienkun stones were no longer required for the refinery/socket transfer to be possible.

    So as you can see, we've been working with what we have to make this process more accessible, but we do apologize for the misunderstanding that arose from this preview, which was published under the assumption that the necessary item would be implemented in time.

    Thanks,
    FrankieRaye :)

    Thanks for a response. The fact remains that players were mislead by the statement into spending lots off money on their lunar/tt99 gear. I myself have hundreds of gold invested in my +10 lunar bow. This gear was said to be "upgradable" into nirvana. That entire page describes nirvana as am upgrade to your existing gear numerous times.

    There is nothing there about things being speculative. You say that post was made a month before the system was released. And here we are two months after it was released before PWE admitted that the statement is wrong. What was going on in this time? Rather than immediately being open about how it actually works you kept quiet about it and kept releasing more and more packs. Well the dirty secret was discovered and exposed and it is only now we get this clarification. Yay.

    Let's say you get the benefit of the doubt and this is somehow an honest mistake. Are you going to own up to it and replace lost refines/gems on nirvana upgrade? A fair solution is for having customers file tickets documenting lost refines/gems/sockets and for them to be given materials to restore those.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    Socket Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/socketcalculator.html
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    frankieraye wrote: »
    Hi,

    The post you originally referred to (http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=517862) was a preview of how this system would work. The post itself was made on 11-18-2009 at 03:00 PM--about a month before the system was actually patched into the game.

    At the time, we were under the impression that the necessary material for keeping refinery, sockets, etc..-- a certain Cash Shop item (Chienkun Stones), would be implemented along with the patch. This unfortunately was not the case, and the item remains under development for the time-being.

    Initially, the Cash Shop item (Chienkun Stones) was required for any kind of action with regards to Nirvana Gear creation/modification-- including the "Reforge" option. Hoping to soften the blow that the lack of this item would cause, we were able to rework the "Reforge" option so that the Chienkun stones were no longer required for the refinery/socket transfer to be possible.

    So as you can see, we've been working with what we have to make this process more accessible, but we do apologize for the misunderstanding that arose from this preview, which was published under the assumption that the necessary item would be implemented in time.

    Thanks,
    FrankieRaye :)

    Dancing around the fire are we? b:chuckle

    First off, allow me to thank you for taking the time to respond, much appreciated.

    I understand that you were able to remove Chienkun stone requirement from the "Reforge" tab, and that you are unable to remove the same thing from the "Recast" tab. Business is business, no one's passing blame for that part.

    I do have one last question though.
    A few months ago, the official word was that you had no plans of releasing Chienkun stones at the time. A month ago the matter had been supposedly taken under advisement.
    Is it safe to assume that Chienkun stones are to be implemented eventually? Your second and last paragraphs make it sound that way, but are still open for interpretation either way.

    A definite yes or no is what we were, and still are looking for.

    Thanks again :)
    b:dirty
  • Aubree - Dreamweaver
    Aubree - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,868 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    People have lost RL money on mistakes made by this corporation. A responsible corporation would own up to it and make it right. GMs made statements I assume were handed down by management. While GMs are not at fault, the corporation itself, is. The constant changing of official statements concerning the new system are desperate attempts at weaseling out of the responibility to its customers to uphold ethical business practice.

    If you have lost money due to this illegal marketing scheme, you should file a complaint with the Attorney General of California, where their headquarters is based out of.
  • StormChaos - Heavens Tear
    StormChaos - Heavens Tear Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    frankieraye wrote: »
    At the time, we were under the impression that the necessary material for keeping refinery, sockets, etc..-- a certain Cash Shop item (Chienkun Stones), would be implemented along with the patch. This unfortunately was not the case, and the item remains under development for the time-being.


    Thankyou for someone taking the time to finally reply but I think the part that annoys the players more than most was the silence.

    Yes the original thread was a preview and is ofc subject to change we all know that but as Asterelle points out, its two months down the line before we are told something that should have been said in the TB patch notes or as soon as possible afterwards.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    There is nothing there about things being speculative. You say that post was made a month before the system was released. And here we are two months after it was released before PWE admitted that the statement is wrong. What was going on in this time? Rather than immediately being open about how it actually works you kept quiet about it and kept releasing more and more packs. Well the dirty secret was discovered and exposed and it is only now we get this clarification. Yay.

    Even when the first piece was crafted nearly a month ago, GMs had no clue whether the refines or sockets would actually transfer. The preview notes say they did, and the forges sort of reflected this in the crafting process, however the key ingredient, the Chienkun Stones, had not been released with the expansion.

    This screwed things up, because on the other official version, these stones have been available for some time, and the implementation of Nirvana was *designed* for these stones to work there as well. It is only PWI with the intention of not selling these that has messed up the system that was originally described and properly function on the original servers it was released and tested on (that the GMs here would have no clue about anyway).

    So the problems that not releasing these stones created this issue that they had no way of knowing was going to be an issue, and in that they're not at fault for trying to intentionally mislead anyone. As a matter of fact, after they figured out how the system worked, they probably had to figure a way to make the system work without these stones.

    Personally, I think they should make it so refines, sockets and shards do transfer from the original to the Nirvana, since they will not allow these Chienkun stones to be released. PWI, in good faith, should allow this, as well as compensate for Wizzled's bow because they were in fact responsible for changing the system and how it works without notification, even if only to adapt it to PWI.

    We all know why PWI won't release Chienkun stones. I think they should disable that feature at the Promotion's Agent completely, then they wouldn't have to worry about lowbies continuously transferring refines. They'll only make money off the higher level player. But you know that'll cut into the profit margin a few percentage points or so....
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    I wonder how the other admins that posted feel when they said it was the player base's misinterpretation now that they have been shown to have blatantly made 2 lies in one go. Also means take future replies with a grain of salt, as they may not be true; instead just a way to try to deflect blame.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

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  • Collapse - Harshlands
    Collapse - Harshlands Posts: 467 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    frankieraye wrote: »
    Hi,

    The post you originally referred to (http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=517862) was a preview of how this system would work. The post itself was made on 11-18-2009 at 03:00 PM--about a month before the system was actually patched into the game.

    At the time, we were under the impression that the necessary material for keeping refinery, sockets, etc..-- a certain Cash Shop item (Chienkun Stones), would be implemented along with the patch. This unfortunately was not the case, and the item remains under development for the time-being.

    Initially, the Cash Shop item (Chienkun Stones) was required for any kind of action with regards to Nirvana Gear creation/modification-- including the "Reforge" option. Hoping to soften the blow that the lack of this item would cause, we were able to rework the "Reforge" option so that the Chienkun stones were no longer required for the refinery/socket transfer to be possible.

    So as you can see, we've been working with what we have to make this process more accessible, but we do apologize for the misunderstanding that arose from this preview, which was published under the assumption that the necessary item would be implemented in time.

    Thanks,
    FrankieRaye :)

    While its great you took the time to reply, this still doesnt answer the original question; rather it, once again, dances around the answer we want and instead kind of implies it thru example of the 2ND part of the process, which you supposedly "Fixed". Do you loose refines when going from Lunar/tt99 => Nirvana (The RECAST not REFORGE). I means eriously how hard is it to say "Yes Lunar/tt99 => Nirvana makes you loose your refines". I mean most of us already know, but it'd be great if you could just say this so other people dont loose money.
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  • ArchAngel - Dreamweaver
    ArchAngel - Dreamweaver Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    "..and the item remains under development for the time-being."

    What is this suppose to mean? The Chienkun stones don't need to be under any kind of development; they already exist and have already been implemented in other versions of the game.
  • TigerLily - Lost City
    TigerLily - Lost City Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    frankieraye wrote: »
    Hi,

    The post you originally referred to (http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=517862) was a preview of how this system would work. The post itself was made on 11-18-2009 at 03:00 PM--about a month before the system was actually patched into the game.

    At the time, we were under the impression that the necessary material for keeping refinery, sockets, etc..-- a certain Cash Shop item (Chienkun Stones), would be implemented along with the patch. This unfortunately was not the case, and the item remains under development for the time-being.

    Initially, the Cash Shop item (Chienkun Stones) was required for any kind of action with regards to Nirvana Gear creation/modification-- including the "Reforge" option. Hoping to soften the blow that the lack of this item would cause, we were able to rework the "Reforge" option so that the Chienkun stones were no longer required for the refinery/socket transfer to be possible.

    So as you can see, we've been working with what we have to make this process more accessible, but we do apologize for the misunderstanding that arose from this preview, which was published under the assumption that the necessary item would be implemented in time.

    Thanks,
    FrankieRaye :)

    Dont really think "an apology" will do it here.

    I have (like so many other high lvl players) invested hundreds of gold to +10 lunar bow and also +10 my CV-helmet.

    I was mislead by PWI telling me that refines + shards on Lunar/hh99 items would be kept when upgrading to Nirvana. Now i will loose everything because this company gave out false information.
  • Foxgrit - Lost City
    Foxgrit - Lost City Posts: 421 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    1-Do you have any intention of releasing the refine transfer stones?
    2-If you dont want to release the transfer stones will you at least make it so the recast keeps refines like the reforge does?


    While i can understand not wanting the stones to be released for common use your official expansion preview claimed that the recast process would keep all refines and gems. At the same time you released pack after pack getting your players to spend hundreds and in some cases thousands of dollars to upgrade their current equipment because you claimed these would be transferred during the nirvana upgrades. At the moment this was false advertising if not outright fraud which is highly illegal in the country which PWI is based out of. It does not matter if you are a subsidiary of a larger company based out of China you set up shop inside the United States. Every person who charged gold between the time of your announcement to the time of your clarification would be entitled to a refund under the law if this is not made right. All we players want is for things to work as we were told they would before you conned us into spending large amounts of real life money on false information.

    If you can get us real answers for those 2 questions that will solve this issue. We dont want a vague response and we dont want to lose our hard earned money on deceptive business tactics.

    Nothing in this post constitutes a threat of lawsuit against your company. Just a statement of the facts and our desire for clarification on how this will be made right by your company.
  • _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,294 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »
    Dont really think "an apology" will do it here.

    I have (like so many other high lvl players) invested hundreds of gold to +10 lunar bow and also +10 my CV-helmet.

    I was mislead by PWI telling me that refines + shards on Lunar/hh99 items would be kept when upgrading to Nirvana. Now i will loose everything because this company gave out false information.

    QFT on that.

    One player loses thousands of $ and a huge deal more spend hundreds of $ in the belief that they can transfer it over, and PWI suddenly turn around with.

    "Ooops typo, our bad. Soz guys. Btw, press "O" to buy our new hyper stones :D"

    It isn't exactly a few hours worth of game money here. It's a substantial sum of real life cash invested in their products they advertise. Maybe the devs think we're all insanely rich or stupid or something and they can get away with it. Either way they show zero respect towards their player base and customers.
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Foxgrit - Lost City wrote: »
    1-Do you have any intention of releasing the refine transfer stones?
    2-If you dont want to release the transfer stones will you at least make it so the recast keeps refines like the reforge does?

    Bump for justice.
    ArchAngel - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    What is this suppose to mean? The Chienkun stones don't need to be under any kind of development; they already exist and have already been implemented in other versions of the game.

    I'll hazard a guess and assume they're trying to remove it from PWI boutique agent and make it available for nirvana only. That way they get even more money from people buying them for their endgame sets, and don't lose any money on dragon orbs by not allowing people to transfer refines from lower level gear. Would be a smart move.

    I mean lets be realistic, I can count maybe 5 people on sanctuary who would be willing to start anew with a nirvana set. I take it the situation is the same on other servers as well. By doing the above they'll be getting money from thousands, rather than a dozen.
    b:dirty
  • frankieraye
    frankieraye Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Hey guys,

    For those of you who used the Recasting process with the belief that your refinery and slots would transfer over, please submit a ticket so that our Customer Service team can assist you.

    As for the question of whether Chienkun Stones will be made available in the game, at this time we are unable to answer this question, but over the next couple of weeks we will be interacting with the development team, and we should be able to give you guys a more concrete answer.

    Thanks :)

    FrankieRaye
    PWI Wiki | Dragon Points | GM Support | Private Message
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Hmmm.... has anybody taken the time to figure out the cost vs. benefit of Chienkun stones, assuming they are eventually made available?

    I've yet to refine my gear past +5, but so far the "savings" I'd get by using Chienkun stones are pretty mediocre.

    For example, it says I'd need 60 Chienkun stones to transfer a +5. That's the same number of Dragon Orb 1s it takes to make a Dragon Orb 5. While you would save 40 Dragon Orb 1s by not having to make Dragon Orbs 1-4, you'd also be losing the resale value of your old weapon.

    I don't know what the savings are for higher level refines, but a savings of 40% doesn't seem all that impressive when it costs me the resale value of my old item. I'd personally still rather sell the old weapon and refine the new one if that's the case.

    I can see there are exceptions in cases of bound items like rank gear, but overall it still seems like the best/cheapest option by far is to wait till you've got your Nirvana gear before committing your riches to the big refines.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Foxgrit - Lost City
    Foxgrit - Lost City Posts: 421 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    frankieraye wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    For those of you who used the Recasting process with the belief that your refinery and slots would transfer over, please submit a ticket so that our Customer Service team can assist you.

    As for the question of whether Chienkun Stones will be made available in the game, at this time we are unable to answer this question, but over the next couple of weeks we will be interacting with the development team, and we should be able to give you guys a more concrete answer.

    Thanks :)

    FrankieRaye


    at least thats a start. better not forget about what you just said because if there is no update on this situation in a few weeks you know the forum will start raging again demanding this to be made right. replacing equips for people who have already recast still doesnt solve the problem of all the people who refined their equips due to your claims and havent collected enough nirvana mats to recast.
  • Vinat - Sanctuary
    Vinat - Sanctuary Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    NINNY!

    i agree 110 percent. they sold us a bill of goods (that expression is so stupid, but you know what i mean). false promises. it's really sad. i made my wand +5 thinking i could keep the refines because they spent like 2 months explaining to us and telling us over and over that THATS WHAT NIRVANA IS FOR!
  • ArchAngel - Dreamweaver
    ArchAngel - Dreamweaver Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    It will be a big goodwill gesture to give us a way to save our sockets,shards and refines made on our nirvana upgradable equipment in the event that the 'concrete' answer is a 'NO'...
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Sorry for the crosspost, but this question needs to be answered as well:

    There are three terms.... recast, quench and reforge. Recast is where you upgrade from CV or TT99 armor to Nirvana G13. You lose all refines and shards, and you have a 80% chance to craft 3 socket, 10% chance for either 2 or 4 socket. Then you quench your armor to G15. At this point, you lose all refines and shards as well?
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • ArchAngel - Dreamweaver
    ArchAngel - Dreamweaver Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    If im not mistaken, as of current, only the last process, i.e reforging retains refines/shards/sockets.
  • frankieraye
    frankieraye Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    ArchAngel - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    If im not mistaken, as of current, only the last process, i.e reforging retains refines/shards/sockets.

    This is correct----^
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    frankieraye wrote: »
    This is correct----^

    PWI's changes are sad. From a guild with 6-8 pages of people able or almost able to do Nirvana, only about a dozen people are actually interested in farming Nirvana gear because of this. Nobody wants to lose the money they've spent, and they don't consider the upgrade to be worth the cost associated with making new gear.

    I'm sure you'll see from your tracking data, it's only a small handful of people that are actually farming nirvana. I will, but I don't have my 99 gear yet, and I'm not going to end up wasting a whole lot of money sharding and refining it until I get to that point. Too bad, PWI has to wait a lot longer for only a slect few to actually give them money. Kinda stingy if you ask me. Hope it doesn't bite ya in the butt, so to speak.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Vinat - Sanctuary
    Vinat - Sanctuary Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    if they were able to make chin-whatever stones not needed for reforge, can't they just make it so we don't need any for the recast either?

    and frankie, you said something about having done this to "soften the blow" to the players... how the hell does this soften anything? it doesn't. not one iota. we still loose everything we've already worked for. "but hey, once you get back to where you were before we wiped your slate clean, you cant lose it again"

    whoopde effing doo
  • whiskeyking
    whiskeyking Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    so is it true that u can only turn TT 99 weps and armor into nervana not TT 100 wepons

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