Archer replaced by Assassin?
Comments
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EvAxx - Sanctuary wrote: »I've been playing an archer before my assassin. From my experience the assassin is overall better than my archer. No class will be fully replaced because people will always play a class that they are biased towards. My point is that assassins are capable of being better than an archer can ever be for the most part. You can disagree and continue to play your archer or w/e you play, it makes no difference to me. I'm just posting for those who do care and and those who care to turn this into a discussion and perhaps prove me wrong.
I do not supposed that you have a lvl 80 archer at least?0 -
Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »I do not supposed that you have a lvl 80 archer at least?
She is level 74. Though I'm pretty sure I can see her end game. IMO it's not as capable as an assassin's.0 -
EvAxx - Sanctuary wrote: »She is level 74. Though I'm pretty sure I can see her end game. IMO it's not as capable as an assassin's.
I hope you will not be frustrated without having range. Lotsa range magical mobs from this point onwards. Next to none melee mobs...0 -
Right, discussions are key, providing information is key, but your posts tend to be more derogatory than informative in nature.
I never said I agreed with people who are arrogant enough to say that X will replace Y (or, conversely, that X can NEVER work as well as Y in ANY situation), I'm just tired of the constant "nuh uh we're better, you're useless" arguments from both sides.
Meh.. I'll just stop reading. It was entertaining for a bit but now it's just annoying. b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
EvAxx - Sanctuary wrote: »@Psudeotrophe
The fact that archers do not have many skills with damage that is based on percentages is why they lose effectiveness end game. Assassins will always doing damage based on percentages. Btw assassins are a lot more capable than you give them credit for. No assassin is going to just stand there and get hit by a barb when they are reducing all damage by 90%. I shouldn't even need to say that. Archer's elemental attacks are good early to mid game. But they also lose effectiveness end game.
BTW Stormrage Eagleon is a **** skill no one should need to tell you this either.
no one needs to tell me that stormrage eagelon does 12k damage in 12 seconds, dont worry, I also dont need someone to tell me that Demon stormrage can easily tick a barbs charm on its own with a 5160 Dot damage effect against them
Also, if a barb/bm is hitting you, they can just cancel your channeling, and negate your cloak, look at the channel time. Im certain at end game if a person is playing smart they'll win out, but there is a lack of differential damage(IE elemental). Because the % increases in damage isnt incredible because your base weapon damage is your Weapons attack, not your character's attack damage. So Base weapon damage x2.2 (x2.2 = earthenrift (with general summer's dagger's high end damage of 324)) = 712
this is before the monster modifer, which is removed for PvP.
Defense modifier vs attack modifier:
Earthen Rift Level 10
Range Melee
Mana 178.5
Channel 0.7 seconds
Cast 1.8 seconds
Cooldown 8.0 seconds
Weapon Daggers
Requisite Cultivation Aware of Coalescence
Detonate the ground under the enemy. Deals base physical damage plus
400% of weapon damage to all enemy units within 8 meters.
thats x4 of your base weapon damage against a human opponent so lets say your dagger has this attack damage:
522-783
and you happen to hit on the base end which is 522. 522 x 4 2088. Impressive against an arcane wearer.
So lets go with a BM with 22456 pdef (thats TT90 normal with Altermarrow lvl 10 and bell lvl 10) or a barb with 21045 (thats TT90 normal with Tiger form)
Reduce that damage by 21% and you'll get your damage.
2088 x .21 = 438.48 damage so in one single attack stroke, you took as much hp as a sacrificial stike. now adding in crit chance you get an additional x2.3 so if you happen to critical on an enemy you get 1008.5 damage which is equivelant to crit chance, or +20 attack level. (adding in +30 attack level will increase exponential damge from 1k to 3025.1 if you crit with earthenrift with lvl 10 deep chill on a heavy armored player.) Its enough damage to startle a heavy armored player at end game, but not kill or tick them, being as you're still dealing with an extra 5-10k hp you need to mull through.
Adding Deep sea strike only adds .3 more damage to this total, whereas adding Heaven's flame Doubles the previous calculated value.
Remember, a bm can deal 5-700 damage to you in a single swing of an axe. as well as an archer with a bow/crossbow, and their attacks arent purely physical, they get modifiers that allow percentiles of their dps to be converted into magic or stacked onto their attack to increase their damage against you.
Just something to think about Apparently its more difficult to milk a smurf than originally conceived..0 -
Ephemerai - Sanctuary wrote: »Right, discussions are key, providing information is key, but your posts tend to be more derogatory than informative in nature.
I never said I agreed with people who are arrogant enough to say that X will replace Y (or, conversely, that X can NEVER work as well as Y in ANY situation), I'm just tired of the constant "nuh uh we're better, you're useless" arguments from both sides.
Meh.. I'll just stop reading. It was entertaining for a bit but now it's just annoying. b:bye
I'm sure if I can find time to play a sin, I would spot it's obvious flaws and putting them out here.
From what most sins are saying, sins seems perfect. But life isn't perfect. My comments will be based on obvious flaws which you have never pointed out in the first place. Derogatory or not, it still truth.
All along, it's sins that are pointing to older classes that sins are better (dps blah blah blah) and replacing them.
I slightly amuse that sins are fighting so hard to be top dps, when it will only happen in solo and replacing older classes.
But it's getting old. Since sins started the flame bait, we will simply defend our class.0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »Just think about it. It'll be people like him trying to replace us archers. Needless to say... our future is secured.
people like me are defending people like you... with a level 91 archer/93 bm and 89 barb. Just because you see the fish face, doesnt mean Im a main assassin.Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »I have BOLDED the parts which make all these skills superior to a Stormrage Eagleon. [/B]
the inital statement was that the skill does inferior damage, not was inferior in spark, and 6k is far less than 12kApparently its more difficult to milk a smurf than originally conceived..0 -
Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm sure if I can find time to play a sin, I would spot it's obvious flaws and putting them out here.
From what most sins are saying, sins seems perfect. But life isn't perfect. My comments will be based on obvious flaws which you have never pointed out in the first place. Derogatory or not, it still truth.
All along, it's sins that are pointing to older classes that sins are better (dps blah blah blah) and replacing them.
I slightly amuse that sins are fighting so hard to be top dps, when it will only happen in solo and replacing older classes.
But it's getting old. Since sins started the flame bait, we will simply defend our class.
Sins aren't perfect but ideally, they can come closest by giving it equip that most players will never obtain. Like you said AoEs hurt. However, there is usually a solution to most problems in life. Hopefully I'll find an alternate one if mine fails.
@Psudeotrophe
Assassins primary damage comes from sparking. So you'll need to add the % bonus into your calculations. Then you need to consider that they have high attack speed which means using skills might not be best for raw damage output. Using demon spark an assassin shouldn't have much trouble reaching 2.8-3.3 atk/s. They also won't have much problem connecting or recasting that demon spark. Then consider that they have a skill which raises critical rate to a total of 60% easily and along with 30% more critical damage. You can reach even more damage with extreme poison or tangling mire. That is a lot of damage for 8-15 seconds even if it's only physical.
I don't see how you can defend Stormrage Eagelon, even with demon, it does 12k damage over 15 seconds. That's less than 1k damage per second. It also suffers a PvP penalty. And it's not like barbs have no magic defense either..0 -
Psudeotrophe - Dreamweaver wrote: »people like me are defending people like you... with a level 91 archer/93 bm and 89 barb. Just because you see the fish face, doesnt mean Im a main assassin.
Do take a look on the number of fishies fanatics that are trash-talking. My thanks to you if you are defending older classes.
But if not, feel free to replace us. I'm sure we are not needed at aoe bosses nor anything that can bring boss's hp down with STA debuff.0 -
Chronos - Raging Tide wrote: »I think assassins definitely replace archers because they use the same build (mostly dex) and assassins have daggers, making them much better! I use a bow until the mob gets close to me (usually I get about 3 hits in) then I switch to daggers to finish it off. Archer does the same thing, except without switching to daggers. So Archer=Assassin-Daggers, meaning assassins are much better.
Think about it ... Imagine if it was real life ... There someone throwing stones at your face and you have to go slap them ... Thing who would win? ;P Ofc the stonethrower! b:victory Meaning Archers Pwn Assassins ... somehow 0 -
SoXXx - Dreamweaver wrote: »Think about it ... Imagine if it was real life ... There someone throwing stones at your face and you have to go slap them ... Thing who would win? ;P Ofc the stonethrower! b:victory Meaning Archers Pwn Assassins ... somehow
Wow...such a stupid analogy.
The slapper can apparently teleport right in front of you and give you a HARD slap in the face and won't let you go. Oh and the slapper can also go invisible so the person who is throwing rocks can't and even notice the target.
So yea stop being an ignorant fool and know the newer classes better.
Sins can wipe the floor on Archers face if he knows what he's doing.0 -
all i see is... assasins can replace bm, assasins can replace archers, whats next? thats right, all forget about all your past characters and make assasins instead and lets see how they squad together for bosses and stuff.0
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At first i see everyone bashing tideborn . . . and i think that was a bad thing.
But after read more and more post, i realize b:angry.
Go ahead just replace every class you wanted, since you were the best class.
(i aply these post only on these thread and "end of bm o.0" thread, not all tide say they want to replace other class . . .)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...0 -
sins can hit and run AA and LA in TW at a rate of...
1 kill every 90 dam seconds while remaining alive (aka stealth)
archers = turret
for pve?
go have fun DDing on aur and rancar sinniesb:pleased
honestly ive seen threads claiming sins will replace every existing class including clerics...your just another DD get used to it...the rest of us did want to be important to a squad? roll a cleric or barbGifs are hard to make work here0 -
My appoligies I had the armor modifier incorrect on Heavy armor. its not 22% physical reduction for 22k pdef its closer to 87% sorry b:cry
22% is an arcane wearer so a 3k hit is possible there
but a heavy with 22k pdef the attack damage is closer to 350-500 in earthenrift attack with chill of the deep, wolfemblem, and a crit (x9.3 damage) with no magic modifier.Apparently its more difficult to milk a smurf than originally conceived..0 -
i'm sorry what? 22% is arcane wearer and you claim to have 9x chars?0
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You are very mistaken in everything that you say.Psudeotrophe - Dreamweaver wrote: »no one needs to tell me that stormrage eagelon does 12k damage in 12 seconds, dont worry, I also dont need someone to tell me that Demon stormrage can easily tick a barbs charm on its own with a 5160 Dot damage effect against them
First of all, Stormrage's tick damage in PvP has a dps of about 100 on a well geared heavy. It will not tick a barb's charm, it will not tick anyone's charm. Here is how you would calculate it: 12000 metal damage in 15s, so in PvP that is really 3000 metal damage in 15s, which would be 200 metal damage per second, which would be 100 metal damage per second accounting for 50% mdef reduction (which every well geared 9x heavy should have)
Second of all, Earthen Rift is base damage + 400% weapon damage at level 10, get it right. Base damage is indeed the damage shown in your character screen. This ability is basically an AOE take aim, except daggers have less weapon damage than ranged weapons.
if you don't know anything stop confidently claiming that you do, it misleads people.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »You are very mistaken in everything that you say.
First of all, Stormrage's tick damage in PvP has a dps of about 100 on a well geared heavy. It will not tick a barb's charm, it will not tick anyone's charm. Here is how you would calculate it: 12000 metal damage in 15s, so in PvP that is really 3000 metal damage in 15s, which would be 200 metal damage per second, which would be 100 metal damage per second accounting for 50% mdef reduction (which every well geared 9x heavy should have)
Second of all, Earthen Rift is base damage + 400% weapon damage at level 10, get it right. Base damage is indeed the damage shown in your character screen. This ability is basically an AOE take aim, except daggers have less weapon damage than ranged weapons.
if you don't know anything stop confidently claiming that you do, it misleads people.
Even worse, he managed to underestimate and overestimate the damage it does. The skill itself does more damage than listed, but neglected to count the PK reduction to the skill as well. Still ends up being higher than it should be though.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
I dont even know why you would compare sin and archers in the first place <.< Only thing sins and archers have in common is LA armor b:surrender
Archer is a ranged kinda more suitable pve class, thats rather weak in 1v1 pvp endgame - unless you have rank8, lvl 100 skills and pretty amazing refines.
Sin a pure pvp class that nevertheless can hold their spot as an amazing DD in pve. Sin may be able to use a bow like any other class but they dont have 75-90% weapon dmg from mastery. Sin is NOT a ranged tank, sin is NOT a multiple target DD with continuous aoe like barrage.
Might as well compare wizards and sins instead, classes that are amazingly skilled towards pvp endgame, but not as useful always in pve.0 -
EvAxx - Sanctuary wrote: »That's it 1.2-2k damage? I'm considerably less worried now. So far I can Deaden Nerves and I get 2 minutes to hit at the boss without worrying about an unlucky ohko. Those two minutes I'm up there is the same as 6 minutes of an archer attacking.
Do some research before you post. 3-2/3-3 bosses can do 6-8k direct melee damage on light, with a 2-8k aoe on light, and a 20m aoe sleep/stun. And here you are... thinking you can triple the damage of an archer. Even in ideal condictions, no sin will be able to triple my damage. And you think you can do it when your slept 20-25 seconds for every 5 seconds of activity?
Whats more likely is an aoe kills you, but your deaden nerves keeps you up just in time to be slept. And a few seconds later you drop to a second aoe.Psudeotrophe - Dreamweaver wrote: »people like me are defending people like you... with a level 91 archer/93 bm and 89 barb. Just because you see the fish face, doesnt mean Im a main assassin.
the inital statement was that the skill does inferior damage, not was inferior in spark, and 6k is far less than 12k
Seriously, whats with people ****ting out random levels in an effort to prove themselves. Post on your main and let the levels speak for themselves. Your post on stormrage already disqualified whatever knowledge you have of archers.Psudeotrophe - Dreamweaver wrote: »My appoligies I had the armor modifier incorrect on Heavy armor. its not 22% physical reduction for 22k pdef its closer to 87% sorry b:cry
22% is an arcane wearer so a 3k hit is possible there
but a heavy with 22k pdef the attack damage is closer to 350-500 in earthenrift attack with chill of the deep, wolfemblem, and a crit (x9.3 damage) with no magic modifier.
Seriously!? At my level every half assed robe user have more pdef then LA.Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »Actually, I have found stormrage eagelon to sometimes be useful.
I could explain, but I see no advantage in doing so.
I, too, find that skill useful... when i am constipated and need to **** out 2 sparks.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
I love how the guy who started this thread was level 16. And everyone, instead of realizing the kid was a noob who clearly didn't know his head from his ****, raged for 30 pages worth of thread.0
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Reico_M - Dreamweaver wrote: »I love how the guy who started this thread was level 16. And everyone, instead of realizing the kid was a noob who clearly didn't know his head from his ****, raged for 30 pages worth of thread.
this...
everyone who has raged in this thread be a bit slow in the head....
*cough*
STA = Archers win.darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
lol Assassin and acher is almost the same..and they both got Low MP much crit/damage..and they have to HIT first to win..if some1 hit before them..they die.<.< lol[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
QQ If i did Crazy stone at 3x AND not 6x, i had been lvl 105 now!
Didnt know about Bh/CrazyStone before lvl 6x LOL0 -
Sins = melee archers
Archers = long range sins
Sins go invisible > Archers do not.
PWNED b:bye0 -
EvAxx - Sanctuary wrote: »That's it 1.2-2k damage? I'm considerably less worried now. So far I can Deaden Nerves and I get 2 minutes to hit at the boss without worrying about an unlucky ohko. Those two minutes I'm up there is the same as 6 minutes of an archer attacking.
There is a reason 99% of the 8X-9X assassin i ever went TT with uses a bow for close range aoe-bosses such as belial. They dont like to get completely molested or waste entire hp charms for mats.
All tho if a sin is willing to **** their hp charm and DD in mele range w/o crying about Hp charm loss, crying about ress, crying about heals and spamming event pots it will be some pretty decent DPS im sure.
But with a bow their kinda like a bad archer and all of them uses a bow b:surrender. I would do to tho, who the hell wanna stand in phy aoe when you have low hp and LA armor. But archer > bow assassin.0 -
Gasoline - Lost City wrote: »There is a reason 99% of the 8X-9X assassin i ever went TT with uses a bow for close range aoe-bosses such as belial. They dont like to get completely molested or waste entire hp charms for mats.
All tho if a sin is willing to **** their hp charm and DD in mele range w/o crying about Hp charm loss, crying about ress, crying about heals and spamming event pots it will be some pretty decent DPS im sure.
But with a bow their kinda like a bad archer and all of them uses a bow b:surrender. I would do to tho, who the hell wanna stand in phy aoe when you have low hp and LA armor. But archer > bow assassin.
in bow case to archer the sharptooth and +125% eq or 150% eq dmg help too with each hit, and yes sucks the close aoe dmg
but ok not every boss is melee aoe in tt/bh.0 -
Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »I hope you will not be frustrated without having range. Lotsa range magical mobs from this point onwards. Next to none melee mobs...
u obviously have no idea what these skills are and what they do.
Tackling slash
Throat cut
Head hunt
Shadow jump
Shadow teleport
wind push
maze steps
knife throw
from these skills alone its obvious sins wont have no trouble at all dealing with range mobs like most of the other close range physical classes have trouble with.
now giodia u obviously dont even know what a sin is since u never even got one to lvl 1. now stfu and gtfo with the tide bashing. u do it every chance u get when u have no idea on what the classes are even capable of. get a clue on what they can do and then start bashing. cuz atleast then ull be bashing about things that actually makes freaking sense instead of making up random and untrue **** to bash on.0 -
Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »u obviously have no idea what these skills are and what they do.
Tackling slash
Throat cut
Head hunt
Shadow jump
Shadow teleport
wind push
maze steps
knife throw
from these skills alone its obvious sins wont have no trouble at all dealing with range mobs like most of the other close range physical classes have trouble with.
now giodia u obviously dont even know what a sin is since u never even got one to lvl 1. now stfu and gtfo with the tide bashing. u do it every chance u get when u have no idea on what the classes are even capable of. get a clue on what they can do and then start bashing. cuz atleast then ull be bashing about things that actually makes freaking sense instead of making up random and untrue **** to bash on.
she has as much experiance with the 59 skills as you do
seriously would you REALY spend 2 sparks for a short stun on a mob in pve instead of imoblize>sparking?
maze steps....the hell use does this have im pve aside from the rare imoblize/stun mob?
and yes being mele range sucks hard at times
exe: fb 59,fb 69, fb 79, tt 1-2 or higher, any time your white named, TW(force stealth is a 90 second CD kinda screws ya there no?)
same run skills 2 teleports,4 ranged skills,a cancle,3 stuns, and higher HP and def as a bm and it still sucks to be mele (wait till tusk town and you will learnb:sad)
and barbs? imoblize higher base run speed insane hp and the ability to stop every spell...still gets screwed by range
you aperently know sins skills at least decenly(or are repeating what others tell you in a parrotlike manner) well now learn what everyone else can do and cantGifs are hard to make work here0 -
Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »she has as much experiance with the 59 skills as you do
seriously would you REALY spend 2 sparks for a short stun on a mob in pve instead of imoblize>sparking?
maze steps....the hell use does this have im pve aside from the rare imoblize/stun mob?
and yes being mele range sucks hard at times
exe: fb 59,fb 69, fb 79, tt 1-2 or higher, any time your white named, TW(force stealth is a 90 second CD kinda screws ya there no?)
same run skills 2 teleports,4 ranged skills,a cancle,3 stuns, and higher HP and def as a bm and it still sucks to be mele (wait till tusk town and you will learnb:sad)
and barbs? imoblize higher base run speed insane hp and the ability to stop every spell...still gets screwed by range
you aperently know sins skills at least decenly(or are repeating what others tell you in a parrotlike manner) well now learn what everyone else can do and cant
are you serious? all the skills i posted are just the skills that will make get rid of any kitting range mobs may do. they were not posted in any order as if it was in a combo... and wtf your worried about chi? sins have a near endless supply of chi especially after lvl 59. tackling+RDS alone is enought to EASILY get 2 sparks and you can do it on every mob or ever other mob. that opens up for any sparking u want to do on each mob. and your still talking as if HP/def is a problem with grinding... any HP/def issues u had as a sin ended at the 2x and early 3x lvls. after that it only gets better and better. right now im still only getting hit once or twice by mobs and this is without focus mind on. and blood paint is starting to heal me for decent amounts aswell.
force steal is a 90 sec cooldown but stealth is a 6sec cooldown. if forced stealth is on cooldown then use regular stealth. learn how the stealths work with each other.
honestly wtf is up with all these ppl posting random BS about sins? all you have to do is look at there skills and see range mobs wont effect them much.0 -
Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »she has as much experiance with the 59 skills as you do
seriously would you REALY spend 2 sparks for a short stun on a mob in pve instead of imoblize>sparking?
maze steps....the hell use does this have im pve aside from the rare imoblize/stun mob?
and yes being mele range sucks hard at times
exe: fb 59,fb 69, fb 79, tt 1-2 or higher, any time your white named, TW(force stealth is a 90 second CD kinda screws ya there no?)
same run skills 2 teleports,4 ranged skills,a cancle,3 stuns, and higher HP and def as a bm and it still sucks to be mele (wait till tusk town and you will learnb:sad)
and barbs? imoblize higher base run speed insane hp and the ability to stop every spell...still gets screwed by range
you aperently know sins skills at least decenly(or are repeating what others tell you in a parrotlike manner) well now learn what everyone else can do and cant
Sins have no problem with ranged mobs. Open with Teleport or Deep Sting on magic/phys mobs. Tackling Slash works best on Archers/Magic-only mobs. And having now run both a fist/axe BM and an Assassin through Tusk Town, I can honestly say it's far easier as an Assassin. The only thing I miss from my BM is his HP (had about 1k more HP than I do now, although he did have a smattering of VIT points allocated...)0
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