Demon Or Sage ??

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  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited January 2010
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    MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Nice post Red.What does cata cleric mean?Yeah I will be on seesaw for awhile..I got two mentors who I look up to for sage and demon.

    I mist give credit to joemann for showing us the good thing of being demon.What is needed is pros and cons of both.

    A cata cleric is a cleric whose job it is to heal catapults in TW. That's my favorite part of being a cleric b:chuckle Killing people in TW is nice and all, but healing is what I DO.
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  • aswqes
    aswqes Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    I think demon for wat iv have heard but i dont really know help pls b:victoryb:victoryb:victory
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    It's really funny how a simple question of demon or sage creates a bunch of fanatics who try hard to justify their choice by outlandish reasoning, especially the over-generalizations surrounding pvp and pve.

    The real difficulty that's had with many skills is that most players are going off of ecatomb which doesn't adequately show a player how it works. For this, people just need to hang around both demon and sage clerics, find out the skills they personally prefer, and choose according to said individual tastes. There is no wrong answer here.
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    joemann wrote: »
    Honestly saying only a sage clerics are good for catsquads obviously have never seen a good demon cleric in action. Yes sage has more hp, yes sage can purify nonstop and have lots of chi, but sage clerics also use more chi than that one skill makes up for. 50 chi every 30 secs is nice but when you are in catsquad the only skills you use that require chi are plume shell purify silent seal and chromatic seal. Demon purify requires no chi so no worries there demon plume shell uses half chi and while that extra 5% damage absorb is nice look at how much u get hurt while you have plume shot up about 200 damage. so taking 180 damage instead honestly does not matter because you will have an hp charm. Demon rez is the main reason that you need one for each barb. I can not tell you how many times I have rezed a barb with demon rez and then died or gotten stunned. Sage IH is nice but demon IH is also very strong so even tho you lose that 10% heal you more than make up for it in your rez or not having to worry about chi to purify.

    Honestly the best choice for a catsquad would be one demon cleric and one sage although if you had 2 sage clerics who work very well together or 2 demon clerics who work great together then I would use those, because yes sage and demon skills together work wonders but teamwork between the 2 clerics is more important once you have that you can mess with the sage and demon skills.

    There honestly is no right or wrong answer to is demon or sage better just more of which skills must I have from each which skill do I absolutely need,and after you figure that out figure out how expensive these skills are and if you will be able to obtain them. I went demon for Rez IH and purify I have all of these skills now more to luck than anything but I am very happy with my choice and would do the same if I had to pick again.
    tbh i never had a lack of chi in TW ever cause thers always something to cast to gain chi even if u dont want to ;/ ...only exception is when u die, the sage chi50 skill does help
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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  • Xoria - Sanctuary
    Xoria - Sanctuary Posts: 419 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Personally, I went Demon for the extra damage boost clerics seem to get from it. The price you once paid for Chromatic Seal and Silent Seal are gone completely and Revive was a temptation I couldn't resist.

    Technically speaking, in my mind, a perfect catapult squad would have both a Sage and a Demon cleric. The boosted healing power of Sages and they different effects their buffs give- Demon's purify for when a pesky Venomancer uses Soul Degeneration (which utterly halts Ironheart Blessing's effect, if they just didn't downright Purge the buff right off) coupled with Stream of Rejuvenation's 100% equipment buff- *ranting while lost in thought at the different mixes*

    Well anyway, it all depends what you'd like in the end. As stated above time and time again, each player has their own playing style. I made up the lack of healing power by going Demon with high channel. Even the barbs in Lunarglade appreciate their charms not ticking when I'm not on BB patrol last time I went there. b:chuckle
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  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    I would agree with JanusZeal as to hanging around both types.I see my demon mentor has more time on its side yes that being Xoria.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    What I find really nice about this thread was my old faction leader said, and I quote "Demon clerics are fail." I asked him why and he had no particular reason to say that, in fact, he had only worked with one demon cleric in the game, and that person was apparently fail to begin with. I started listing off the advantages of a demon cleric, and he couldn't tell me anything beyond "Demon clerics are fail" and couldn't get into specifics. I've had that a few times on my server, and it seems like a majority are sage here, unless I'm missing something b:chuckle

    I like how well balanced the poll and the posts are. I'm going sage but I know a few people that went demon that were discouraged at first by random people not knowing anything about the skills claiming that demon clerics are fail.
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    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
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  • joemann
    joemann Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    tbh i never had a lack of chi in TW ever cause thers always something to cast to gain chi even if u dont want to ;/ ...only exception is when u die, the sage chi50 skill does help

    well when you die is when im saying you need chi and most of the time after you die either squad wipes or u accelerate back to your barb before he dies. Now when you are running back to barb you simply have no chi and 2 hours into TW you burn alot of chi pots. So if you are sage you have your free chi skill if you are demon you have your demon phy def buff and mag def buff both have a 25% chance to gives 55 chi which is very useful.

    If your squad wipes you just regroup at base and push again and you can build your chi there waiting for next push. Chi for a cleric is not needed but it is nice to have a spark or 2 for guardians light or wings of protection or plume shell. Things get hectic when you are second biggest target and you are not as survivable as a barb so chi is not something you want to also have to worry about.
  • Sir_Martin - Lost City
    Sir_Martin - Lost City Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Hmmm.... This is just my opinion but from what i have seen on the Sage and Demon move is yes Demon is more for the offensive but from what i see is that you as the Cleric has to have the surprise on the other person to be able to kill them and especial in close combat with the Melee classes the high survivability especial with the Sage Spark.

    Sage Spark Eruption
    700% weapon damage and reduce all damage taken by 25% for 15 seconds.

    Demon Spark Eruption
    700% weapon damage and increase casting speed by 25% for 15 seconds.

    The Sage Spark Giving reduce 25% all damage taken which makes a huge Difference when facing classes that the Stun a lot.*Cough BM's Cough*

    Demon Spark not being much of a use when being stunned a all the time >>

    But ya this is just my opinion b:chuckle
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  • BeingHope - Harshlands
    BeingHope - Harshlands Posts: 5,013 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    b:chuckle Am I glad I haven't reached that point of choosing demon or sage yet

    But QQ I bet when I do get there I'll be posting a thread too b:surrender

    So until then, laughing at threads with demon or sage (jk <3) b:laugh
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  • Azura - Lost City
    Azura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Demon because all their spells are better. There is even one that increase your physical def while it heals you, don't remember the name though.
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  • Bowlinbob - Lost City
    Bowlinbob - Lost City Posts: 3,446 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Azura - Lost City wrote: »
    Demon because all their spells are better. There is even one that increase your physical def while it heals you, don't remember the name though.

    Stream of Rejuvenation , but its lvl 99 QQ

    and "better" is an opinion <_< (although my opinion agrees with you, I can see other peoples' view on why they think sage is better)
  • Missy_kathie - Sanctuary
    Missy_kathie - Sanctuary Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Gezzz, this thread was suppose to make it easier to choose, yet it made it harder... ^^ well, i have alot of time to think about it, so thanks for all your advices...
    *ChicknFlick*

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  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Missy_kathie - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Gezzz, this thread was suppose to make it easier to choose, yet it made it harder... ^^ well, i have alot of time to think about it, so thanks for all your advices...

    That's the idea b:chuckle In the end, these threads can't tell you definitively "Go demon!" or "Go sage!" They can only tell you the skills and what other people chose and why, and you have to choose for yourself. It's so balanced for clerics that you can't lose either way b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "aadi is a forum ninja, always there, skirting thru the shadows... striking with quick posts while you are distracted by your own" -Alexeno(kin)
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  • Rillien - Heavens Tear
    Rillien - Heavens Tear Posts: 569 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Azura - Lost City wrote: »
    Demon because all their spells are better. There is even one that increase your physical def while it heals you, don't remember the name though.

    Well the good thing about demon/sage is that most of the bonuses from 1 track are present in the other track, just with different skills. Sages get free chi, demons have skills that give them more chi than normal. Demons have stream of rejuv, sage has Vanguard Spirit, [pdef buff] that gives 100% more pdef for 10 seconds after casting [lvl 89]. I really think that, with cleric, you can't go wrong.

    Also, lots of the rare 89, and 92 skills are more widely available now. Like everyone has been saying, take a look at how you play and what skills you think you can acquire, then make a choice. I know I'm not really aiming for 99, so I'm not worried about getting 99 skills. And I love me some sage buffs b:dirty
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    I would just like to ask quetion regading this subject and that how do you obtain the skills at 89/92?I know you get them through skill books but do they drop in fb89/99 etc?
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Azurite - Harshlands
    Azurite - Harshlands Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I would just like to ask quetion regading this subject and that how do you obtain the skills at 89/92?I know you get them through skill books but do they drop in fb89/99 etc?

    http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Skill_Books
    ^^ Should help you a bunch. I wish there was an easier and less expensive way to get skill books though. I want my demon IH and rez so bad. Q.Q
  • Ewings - Heavens Tear
    Ewings - Heavens Tear Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Ok if you wanna choose between demon or sage, the trick is simple:

    1) Find a pack of baked munchies, and get a can of favorite drink.

    2)Now keep these aside (they r for me), open ecatomb and browse thru the skill benefits.

    3) By lvl 89 you should know how you play and which benefits help you more. Unless u r one of the children of oracles (polite way of saying oracle noobs).

    based on the benefits and think of which one suits your style more, then pick that path and have fun. I am demon cleric but a very close friend of mine is sage and we both have fun and try n out perform each other all the time, Both of us have all the demon/sage skills so i can tell u, its totally your choice.
    One Wing One Heart
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  • Euphy - Dreamweaver
    Euphy - Dreamweaver Posts: 495 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    This is how I've broken down the clerical cultivation paths:
    Sage:
    Ironheart Blessing: +10% healing on this is godly.
    Wellspring Surge: The point of this skill is fast, emergency healing. The faster the better so 1,2 cast time is great compared to 1,5.
    Plume Shell: Absorbing 5% more damage is great, and saving a tiny bit of Chi isn't so helpful. Demons get very little from their upgrade.
    Demon:
    Revive: Reviving faster is extremely helpful when someone dies while fighting a boss. Reviving over 40m might be nice, but it doesn't seem as helpful.
    Purify: Sage purify costs them 20 chi, so even with 50chi/30sec. they cannot spam it over long periods of time. Demons might not be able use it quite as fast but they can use it no matter what whenever they want to.
    Stream of Rejuvenation: A heal that adds 100% of the equipments defense bonus? Godly.
    Silent Seal: Not having a damage reduction for this spell makes it awesome!
    Cyclone: Extra damage is always helpful, and that is a big boost. Furthermore, the sage bonus of moving 5% slower for a second longer simply doesn't make up for it.
    Wield Thunder:Yes gaining Chi is very nice, but the demonic lightening makes your metal magic 30% stronger! Imagine using a single sparked tempest after this! Clear winner for PvP situations.
    Metal Mastery: Comparing +5% damage from this skill to the 600 extra Demonic Cylcone damage with +2% crit... You calculate how high your magic attack would have to be for +5% to equal 600 (Its 12,000 silly).

    For the following skills their bonuses were either tied, or I did not find them major enough to count as a point for their cultivation path. However, I would argue: Chromatic Healing Beam, Vanguard Spirit, Magic Shell, Celestial Guardian's Seal, Spirit's Gift, Plume Shot, Razor Feathers, Chromatic Seal, Siren's Kiss, and finally Tempest. I do not use Pureheart Blessing or Thunderball so I wont comment. Elemental Seal and Dimensional Seal don't make it or break it for me either way.

    So yes, it boils down to Sages being more powerful healers with more survivability and Demons being more capable of spike damage (which is how one generally defeats enemies in PvP). However, Demons get greater benefits from a great number of skills in my opinion. This is not the end all be all. I for one have decided to pick Sage, simply because I want to be the best healer I can be. I want to make my squads immortal, and seals and spike damage wont help me as much as stronger heals and chi for sparked healing and mana recovery.

    I also take offense from the Sage clerics who make it sound like Demon clerics are incapable of getting their squad through a TT:3-3 (I can't speak for Warsong). That's preposterous. Yes Sages heal more; however, Demons are capable of doing the same. Demonic Ironheart is a huge improvement on Ironheart X in terms of healing power as well. Nonetheless, I recommend that Demons invest as heavily as they can in Channeling gear because that makes the most use of their Spark, faster Plume Shot, and higher critical hit rate (more opportunities to crit).

    Reasons why I didn't think the Sage Buffs counted for more then half a point: Demon Stream of Rejuvenation is much later then Sage Vanguard Spirit but in the end its more practical. I've never fought a Sage Cleric who buffed themselves with Magic Shell to improve their own channeling speed, so I believe that buff is impractical and can be replaced with a Genie's Rainbow Blessing. However, channeling faster through your spark rocks your socks off!

    Finally...
    ZOMG! The demonic fairy is so kawaii!
    th_demon1.jpg
    fee1.jpg
    Demons are just cuter!!! But Sages are darn pretty. Its the little light that gets you through the dark nights.
    Oh and when we grow up...
    demon3.jpg
    Sages just get all weird and bug-wingy...
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  • Lanaught - Harshlands
    Lanaught - Harshlands Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Demon ^^ Cause im evil and love the stats it brings xD Even if im not much interested in pvp ^^
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Euphy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I've never fought a Sage Cleric who buffed themselves with Magic Shell to improve their own channeling speed, so I believe that buff is impractical and can be replaced with a Genie's Rainbow Blessing. However, channeling faster through your spark rocks your socks off!
    cause by the time your lv90 most pple already have 20% channeling or more. 18-24% -channeling seems the most effective. Get up to 30% and your attacks and heals will start to glitch and stop and skip half way. With all my gear i can get up to -49% channeling. I dare not equip all that cause it slows me down due to it glitching and stoping so often.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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  • Euphy - Dreamweaver
    Euphy - Dreamweaver Posts: 495 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    I was only explaining why I didn't count Magic Shell as a bonus for the Sage path. I've never glitched during casting - besides interruptions - but I've never had more then -27% channel. However, whether you glitch or not, most people wont take the seconds to cast Magic Shell on themselves.
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  • Nexdonum - Lost City
    Nexdonum - Lost City Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    I'm going Demon. I have read and reviewed the skills for quite some time now, and the Demon's path outweighs Sage, for me.



    And, to all those saying that Sage Spirit's Gift is great for recovering mana, yes it is. But also, Demon Celestial Guardian's Seal ALSO grants 900 mp/15 sec recovery, and it costs 60 mp LESS. So, over 5 casts of this buff, a Demon Cleric is gaining an additional 300 mp! Now, that isn't TOO much, but still, it's free MP. Especially considering if Demon CGS is stackable (not completely sure, but I recall someone stating it IS stackable, which is amazing), you can be at 40% mp, cast CGS several times, and within 15-20/25 seconds be nearly, or completely, at full MP again. So, set up a macro using Demon IH and CGS, and you're recovering HP at an insane rate, as well as completely nullifying the cost of the IH skill. Win.


    b:victory
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  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Nexdonum - Lost City wrote: »
    So, set up a macro using Demon IH and CGS, and you're recovering HP at an insane rate, as well as completely nullifying the cost of the IH skill. Win.


    b:victory
    I think if it were THAT obvious, the whole discussion and economy for cleric cost would be diff. by now
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  • Aya__ - Heavens Tear
    Aya__ - Heavens Tear Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    im in full panic mode right now...
    doing my culti tomorrow evening... and yes, i decided on going sage some time ago, but...
    but now im re-reading skill descriptions in case i missed something important b:cry and checking threads such as this one... i played with both demon clerics and sages and they were good players who could use skills for their advantage. and i was pretty sure sage suits me better a month ago, and a week ago too, but now im not anymore... what if i chose wrong??? b:shocked
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  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    im in full panic mode right now...
    doing my culti tomorrow evening... and yes, i decided on going sage some time ago, but...
    but now im re-reading skill descriptions in case i missed something important and checking threads such as this one... i played with both demon clerics and sages and they were good players who could use skills for their advantage. and i was pretty sure sage suits me better a month ago, and a week ago too, but now im not anymore... what if i chose wrong???



    I chose Demon and I'm more than satisfied with my decision. Both Sage and Demon have great benefits for Clerics, however Sage is more support oriented. Clerics, being mainly a support class, truly don't need the extra support benefits that come with Sage skills.

    The Demon versions of our skills improve our offensive abilities, giving Clerics more balance and strengthening us at what we're weak in. If I were you I'd go Demon, but I'm not you so I'll leave the decision up to you.

    (But just remember... only us Demons get a flying tomatob:laugh)
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Aya__ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    im in full panic mode right now...
    doing my culti tomorrow evening... and yes, i decided on going sage some time ago, but...
    but now im re-reading skill descriptions in case i missed something important b:cry and checking threads such as this one... i played with both demon clerics and sages and they were good players who could use skills for their advantage. and i was pretty sure sage suits me better a month ago, and a week ago too, but now im not anymore... what if i chose wrong??? b:shocked

    Calm down. I was going to go demon from when I learned what sage and demon was up until level...87? Then I switched my choice and ended up going sage.

    Both paths are pretty sweet. It's not like demons can't support (If given the choice as a tank, I'd actually prefer a demon in most instances), or sages can't attack. You can't go wrong no matter which you choose b:victory
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  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Aya__ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    im in full panic mode right now...
    doing my culti tomorrow evening... and yes, i decided on going sage some time ago, but...
    but now im re-reading skill descriptions in case i missed something important b:cry and checking threads such as this one... i played with both demon clerics and sages and they were good players who could use skills for their advantage. and i was pretty sure sage suits me better a month ago, and a week ago too, but now im not anymore... what if i chose wrong??? b:shocked

    I would do what your heart is content with maybe sage might be for you.You won't lose either way.I am still wighting my option but have 18 lvls to go.you could delay it a for a few days to make sure itis what you want.

    Good Luck on what you choose and your FB89.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Bowlinbob - Lost City
    Bowlinbob - Lost City Posts: 3,446 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I would do what your heart is content with maybe sage might be for you.You won't lose either way.I am still wighting my option but have 18 lvls to go.you could delay it a for a few days to make sure itis what you want.

    Good Luck on what you choose and your FB89.


    89 - 72 =/= 18 levels. ijs.

    and what is wighting?
  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »
    89 - 72 =/= 18 levels. ijs.

    and what is wighting?

    Come on, really? I understand some things Mysti says aren't quite right, but picking on her for spelling and subtracting levels wrong? b:sweat
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