Spliting TT drops, and fairness

Options
Tojop - Dreamweaver
Tojop - Dreamweaver Posts: 623 Arc User
edited October 2009 in General Discussion
My question is how you guys go about splitting TT drops. When we were doing runs for 70 and 80 gear, it usually went Barb>Cleric>Veno>DD-by-level, sometimes switching Barb and Cleric. This was a pretty good system, as Barb/Cleric costs run higher, and the mats are generally of proximate value.

This issue recently came to light in my faction, as when we do 2-3 runs, Antenna is worth significantly more than Forushura's Arm, which is worth still more than anything else. As such, I find myself getting Antenna on almost every run, Arm when there are no Antennas, and a squad of frustrated DDs.

I don't think there is a question that Clerc/Barb costs are higher, but just because I'm spending 100-200k more than a wizard, why am I entitled to a mat worth 2 mil and he gets stuck with 700k?

Here are the prices (give or take, based on AH) of mats from 2-3 on Dreamweaver:

Antenna of consumer of souls: 2-2.5 mil
Forshura's Arm: 1-1.5 mil
Giant ape's tail: 600-800k
Horn of Feng's horse: 200-400k
Astral Stone:700k-1 mil
Frenzy Lion's Edge: 1 perfect mana potb:chuckle

Recent run had 5 tails, 2 arms. 5 man squad, I got arm and a tail, Barb got same, and veno/dds got a tail each.

A Barb in my faction recently came up with a bidding system, similar to what we do with gold mats (sell in AH and split money), but would by pass the AH. Basically, you're just buying out the squad for your drops.

Problem I have with this is it's impossible for someone without a bankroll to get mats. They would profit nicely, but would end up buying mats from AH at inflated prices.

Now, I don't mind doing charity TT runs every so often to help someone finish their gear. I recently did a 2-2 where the barb said beforehand that he was taking all Manes and nothing else; everyone was ok with that.

But with this system in place, how are dds supposed to get Antennas and Arms, short of doing MANY more runs than clerics/barbs. How do you split mats in your faction? Discuss.
Post edited by Tojop - Dreamweaver on
«134567

Comments

  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    In the faction I'm in, whoever needs it for their armor, gets it. No questions asked. If you don't need it, you don't get it.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • SultryShade - Dreamweaver
    SultryShade - Dreamweaver Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    I'll admit it's a royal pain in the ****, but the general consensus in all runs I've been on is the order you guys do it in, is it fair to everyone? Not really. Got a better idea? I don't...

    EDIT: Love your sig Zoe
    I will not hesitate to beat you over the head with your own stupidity.

    Yes I am a hypocrite.
  • ColdSnow - Dreamweaver
    ColdSnow - Dreamweaver Posts: 983 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    Hmm..you spent only 100-200k? O.o then i must do something wrong :P one TT-run eats 30% of my charm..which are equal to 500k now. Also ..yes it seems like unfair to wiz and all DDs. But consider the fact that this squad could have survived without a wiz (they CAN wait till their MP gets up and DD again)...but not without a cleric. So guess nothing against this system. Tho it is unfair...but there is no other solution for me then selling mats in AH and split the cash.
    If i m trolling and spamming on forum...then i cant sleep and need a good laugh
  • AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear
    AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,413 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    In my faction we do runs distribution as stated. Usually it goes subber/tank/cleric/DD's by level.

    We use that picking method until we have our armor/weapon. Then we do by need. This way we get everyone what they need and then we can run for money.

    Now with that being said its better for a DD to sub to get first pick if they want the chance to finish their gear faster.
    Retired

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    In the faction I'm in, whoever needs it for their armor, gets it. No questions asked. If you don't need it, you don't get it.

    ^^ This ^^

    Except, if you do not need it, it goes to the guild bank (HH90).

    If not, generally in the runs I have been on everything is split as evenly as possible and about what you described if someone were to "call" a certain mat.

    It gets interesting in 2-3 when someone is going for GX and wants Belial.....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • Isala - Sanctuary
    Isala - Sanctuary Posts: 1,607 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    Basically, how I've always done it, and even in random squads of random people, is split based on group opinion. Subber gets first choice of what they want, and the party agrees on shares for everyone. You call what you want out of it, and if the party agrees, it's yours. Any remaining drops are then split out until nothing is left but the common drops, like mirages, and skeleton pieces, ETC, and those get divided by party members, with subber taking the odd high count. Never had any complaints in any squad I've been in. I even walked away from my last TT1-2 run with 2 broken shards of gold armor. The rest of the party split what they needed, and all I took was the shards, so everyone was happy. Such a beautiful set of drops that run. 4 Tentacles... A ton of mirages... 3 Broken shards... Among all the other drops... It was like Christmas had come early. Of course, what made it even sweeter was the fact that there was only 3 of us. Our BM DCed, and never came back, so it was 2 Venos and a Cleric, splitting a treasure trove.
  • Tojop - Dreamweaver
    Tojop - Dreamweaver Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    Well, I said 100-200k MORE than wizard, but actually I have no idea what a wizard spends on a TT run b:surrender. The point of this thread was just to see how other people do things.

    Zoe, that's fine, but what happens when everyone needs the same mats? So I finish out my armor requiring antennas a lot sooner than the dds, finish my gear, and stop doing 2-3 runs. They replace me with another cleric who also needs antennas, and so on.

    Now, I try to be helpful to people, that's why I rolled cleric. But it can be hard not being greedy when it's actually assumed, albeit grudgingly, that I'm getting the best/most expensive drops.
  • Centetric - Lost City
    Centetric - Lost City Posts: 1,528 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    yea its always the same for us if u dont need it u dotn get it.
    but the rest always get decent drops xD like mirages xD
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Through the darkness light can always emerge, it is only when the unwilling come upon this light that fear takes over. Emerging from this darkness takes more then courage, it takes faith in ones own mind and more importantly in ones own heart. To deny the light is to deny yourself the feeling of true happiness and true peace within your own soul. Denying your own happiness and your own soul is denying all that one has to live for."
    ~RedsRose
  • Tojop - Dreamweaver
    Tojop - Dreamweaver Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    Left this out of original post, sorry: we don't give subbers primacy in pick order, we just pay them for subs with mirages. 2 mirages per sub, give or take. Or a cheap mat if no mirages, before we decide split.
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Left this out of original post, sorry: we don't give subbers primacy in pick order, we just pay them for subs with mirages. 2 mirages per sub, give or take. Or a cheap mat if no mirages, before we decide split.

    I have done this often and it works much better then giving them first pick of the best mats.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • Skimi - Dreamweaver
    Skimi - Dreamweaver Posts: 333 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    if i bank then i put together cheap mats with mirages, like in 1-2 there r mats that worth 200-500k and some 30k only, i stack them up with mirages and books so their price is 200k+ too and dd dun feel like sh.it when can get only 30k mat when some1 else gets 500k worth mat... seems kinda more fair to me, but dunno...barbs dun wanna let me bank after that b:laugh
  • Mothergoose - Sanctuary
    Mothergoose - Sanctuary Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    Skimi - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    if i bank then i put together cheap mats with mirages, like in 1-2 there r mats that worth 200-500k and some 30k only, i stack them up with mirages and books so their price is 200k+ too and dd dun feel like sh.it when can get only 30k mat when some1 else gets 500k worth mat... seems kinda more fair to me, but dunno...barbs dun wanna let me bank after that b:laugh

    It doesn't always work, when one mat is worth 2 mil or so, more than the sum of rest of drops.b:chuckle
  • Tojop - Dreamweaver
    Tojop - Dreamweaver Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    Right, this whole issue is centered basically around 2-3, and antenna of consumer of souls. Having such a huge disparity between the values of the mats inevitably skews the split in favor of those who get to pick first. I was asking for suggestions to avoid this, and make it "fair" while still compensating those classes with higher TT costs.
  • calavera
    calavera Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    What i used to do (squaded mostly with casuals) was set things to random and give the bulk of the nonvaluables, perhaps even some coin, to barb/cleric. Yes, it can be grossly unfair too, but everyone gets an even chance at mats and it mostly means no enforcement. I've been cheated so many times out of my share by people claiming they would mail it after it sold the mats on AH, that my KoS list got ridiculous for a while... so yea, random's the closest to fair and the easiest even if someone will always qq.
  • AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear
    AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,413 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    If you are running for just money. And your group is all friends/trustworthy. Just have one person sell all the mats and mail money. That's about as fair as you can be.
    Retired

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    Whatever gets agreed to up front.

    For guild runs, mats are split by need, with leftovers going to guild bank.
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Antenna of consumer of souls: 2-2.5 mil
    Forshura's Arm: 1-1.5 mil
    Giant ape's tail: 600-800k
    Horn of Feng's horse: 200-400k
    Astral Stone:700k-1 mil
    Frenzy Lion's Edge: 1 perfect mana potb:chuckle

    State at the beginning that anybody who wants an Antenna of Consumer Souls must donate half the price to the remaining squad members.

    If Antenna is 2m, then if the Cleric wants the Antenna, (s)he must donate 1m in coins to the other 5 members (200k each).

    This means the Antenna is now worth 1m in net profit to the bidder, and everyone still gets some value out of it. You can do the same for Forshura's Arm.

    Since this is half the price of a mat, the DDs do not need as much money to bid on an item as a whole. They still need money, but not as much.
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    Yes, that's the system I'm use to and us DD's do get f-over drop wise. TT2-1 is the worst of all imo since only 2 bosses that dropped mats that were worth something. One of the thing a Barb in our faction did was do 2 runs then switch the picking order on the second run. I though that was pretty cool.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver
    XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver Posts: 505 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    If I run with outside squads I have no choice but to go with the common rule: tank, cleric, then the rest. And in every run I've been, no matter what class I play in it (veno, BM), I got last pick and totally got jipped in some runs. Same with friends who run outside faction. By "jipped" I mean not getting what we needed, and what we got was not even worth the time we took to help. I agree clerics and barbs have high costs and that we do need them, but keep in mind the other members in the party might need mats as well.

    In faction runs, I'm going to with "need before greed" we had in my previous factions on HT. What we did is that we either split mirages and other random drops between the group, or if the run was horrible / upon group request, give the mirages and such to the tank/clerics.

    Yeah, I miss running with my faction on HT. But I'm fixing that in Feral on DW... >_>. Several people are leveling clerics up to avoid too many outside squads, including our director and I.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Due to constant PMs: I'm not German, sorry folks D:
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    The rest of the squad should comp cleric / barb charm cost with coin and then have the drops on fair split after. Always having the last pick means never being able to get anything you need. Keep in mind other classes have their own costs with going on runs.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Refining Simulator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/refiningsimulator.html (don't use IE)
    Genie Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html - (don't use IE)
    Socket Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/socketcalculator.html
  • turtlewax
    turtlewax Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    How about sharing the costs first, then just let the drops distribute randomly (squad setting), or evenly distributed (by 'hand').

    (Edit, Mhh, Asterelle basically made the same suggestion)
  • Vinat - Sanctuary
    Vinat - Sanctuary Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Right, this whole issue is centered basically around 2-3, and antenna of consumer of souls. Having such a huge disparity between the values of the mats inevitably skews the split in favor of those who get to pick first. I was asking for suggestions to avoid this, and make it "fair" while still compensating those classes with higher TT costs.

    a veno can solo that. there is no need for a barb or a cleric for this boss. therefore your guild's rule of thumb that the barb and or cleric get the best drops isnt rational in this case. for wurlord or some boss where a barb is absolutely necessary, sure. this case, no.

    if you dont need that mat anymore and someone else in the party does you shpould give it to them and take something else in exchange.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    My question is how you guys go about splitting TT drops.

    Faction gear runs: Person needing specific mats provides subs, gets 2-3 of the mats they need. Rest is split and sold between everyone.

    Money runs: Mats are either split for value, or sold and split. A mat or two is sold for subs for the next runs.

    Gold Runs: Person calling a gold mat provides subs, rest of the mats get sold and split between the rest of the party. Party members sometimes chip in a sub.


    I do not do out-of-guild HH runs unless it's help farming for a friend and I'll usually only take a mat or some mirages. I have a regular group of friends who I farm HH with.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Alyyy - Sanctuary
    Alyyy - Sanctuary Posts: 3,165 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    since when do wizards get into TT's xD?
    Clerics are like cops...they always seem to be around.....until you actually need one b:surrender - DeadRaven
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kannone - Heavens Tear
    Kannone - Heavens Tear Posts: 907 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    TT is too easy for DDs. I usually go at the cost of 20-30k (if I'm actually doing anything, 5-15k if I'm just pretending to DD), so if you look at it in terms of cost input vs. returns, it makes perfect sense that I would get last pick (although I usually try to convince everyone that venos = gimped DDs & therefore should not pick before us b:shutup).




    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    In the faction I'm in, whoever needs it for their armor, gets it. No questions asked. If you don't need it, you don't get it.

    Your faction doesn't count. b:chuckle
  • Foxx - Heavens Tear
    Foxx - Heavens Tear Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    For guild runs, mats are split by need, with leftovers going to guild bank.

    So if I dont *need* anything, I get nothing?
    Sounds like a horrible system.
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear
    Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    So if I dont *need* anything, I get nothing?
    Sounds like a horrible system.

    You run the TT to help other members, not your wallet. Trash your greed its not wanted.
    Main characters
    Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
    Sage Barbarian Malego - 91
  • Maelael - Heavens Tear
    Maelael - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,497 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    "how are dds supposed to get Antennas and Arms..."

    A: Be the subber so you get first pick.

    B: Go with friends for that purpose.

    C: Do multiple runs with the same squad and split after

    D: Don't go at all. Grind and buy.

    I don't do TT groups unless by friend's requests. I spend just as much as a cleric or barb on repairs and pots whenever the squad has "issues" with lag, the barb dying (see lag), the barb losing taunt (see lag?), AOE mowing trash and getting aggro (see lag), and caring about my cleric buddies and giving them Guardian Scrolls and Res Scrolls (lag?).

    Prior to the 188 update we didn't have all these lag issues, but I did swear off pickup TTs due to the cost vs reward issue. Ive left with 50k in loot, a 40k repair bill, loss of minor amounts of exp, and lots of charm ticks a few times. Choose wisely I guess.

    I think what I'm saying here is: TT is not worth the time and investment for DDs being last pick. I understand normally Barbs and Clerics spend WAY more, but with the loot rate nerf, its a waste of time unless you're a Barb (or the BM tank, rare), Cleric, or Subber. Go with friends and help eachother out in terms of need, not greed.
    pwcalc.com/bb6fc16982637a5c / pwcalc.com/28948ee5778526f5
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    So if I dont *need* anything, I get nothing?
    Sounds like a horrible system.

    I got my TT80 gaive done and used 7 war drums from guild bank. Do you think it is a bad deal to give TT drops back to the guild bank if I do not need them? Why would I be in a guild if I did not feel it was important to help my fellow guildmates with their gear the same way they help me with mine?
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Options
    Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    So if I dont *need* anything, I get nothing?
    Sounds like a horrible system.

    It works....you never know when you/someone else might need something.

    See Below...
    Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You run the TT to help other members, not your wallet. Trash your greed its not wanted.
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I got my TT80 gaive done and used 7 war drums from guild bank. Do you think it is a bad deal for me to give TT drops back to the guild bank if I do not need them?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous

Categories