Spliting TT drops, and fairness
Comments
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Personally, I've stopped going on any run where I can tank all the bosses, unless a friend needs them. Why?
...Because I can do it, by myself, with much less hassle and much more reward.
It's that simple. Venos, if you're QQing about not getting the mats you want... don't go TT with other people who needs your mats. Solo the bosses.
However, I WILL go on a TT where I can't solo all the bosses, and I'll tank the ones I can... because the clerics in my squad can sometimes spend over a million coins in charms on the run. Anything I can do to lessen that, I will.
*looks at lypi*HT clerics at their finest:
hari: can you do mdef debuffs? makes the fight go faster
naughty_x: waste, I do more damage without them
hari: ...you do more damage in 2 seconds than reducing mdef by 35% for 4 casters does in 20 seconds?
naughty_x: is waste, i do more damage
hari: 3-3 BH goes a lot faster with a sin
naughty_x: no, only a difference of like 3 minutes
hari: ...we've been in here a lot longer than 3 minutes already
naughty_x: your opinion0 -
What guild are you in? Are you in a guild? Pick up groups, as has been said many times, suck. Get into a guild of trustworthy people. I've never been cheated by a guild group. 3 times I've picked up groups, and 3 times people have *tried* to cheat me. Do the math. Get a guild.Except they likely won't. This system is ridiculous, it just promotes cronyism and corrupt practices regarding mats. Asking low levels (who likely outnumber the higher levels) to sacrifice for the promise of future help it's most likely a scam, and a gross injustice at best...
It's an idea way to do things, yes, but it's not always done, and I'm willing to sacrifice time to come to another TT that I need nothing out of (for now) and make arrangements for the person in need to assist in a coming TT that I need.People should do the runs with other people their level, who also need the mats, but since in many factions barbs/clerics must be at the disposal of higher levels, other classes get cheated out of a chance to get their own mats...
Barbs and clerics always deserve compensation for their repairs and for charm burn. It depends on how they wish to be compensated. Some want mirages. Some want DQ. Some want the unwanted mats. Some want you to come help them on their TT runs.And i remember a time when some of us argued for barbs and clerics to receive their due. Try looking up the old threads and you'll find lenghty discussions about repairs and charm costs. And now the "usual" thing is barbs, then clerics pick first? Makes me sick, whatever happened to equality... I'd rather just get the mats from AH, at today's prices it's not even expensive.
This is an outrage, and i can't believe so many of you have become so conceited not to realize everyone's time is just as valuable as yours.
As I said before, going into TT as a squad, and for venos often solo as well, is a loss of money. Always. You're ALWAYS going to be able to make more grinding solo in the same amount of time then you're going to make in TT, unless it is the very unlikely instance that you step in on a money run and every boss drops 2x of his gold mat.
I find the easiest way of compensation is, if possible, to trade TT runs. Plan two at a time. The first run, you're helping one person. The second, you're helping another. That leaves more mats for the people who don't need anything in either TT to split and be fairly compensated, and it also allows the pair who needed mats to compensate each other.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
In my faction its whoevers needs gets or who ever is tabbed gets the stuff and can do what they want.
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@Everyone, Stand up, they can't force you to accept this. Lie, say you'll go along, then steal the mats. DDs can certainly PK barbs n clerics if they complaint, but even on pve servers, just lie and steal mats.
You should ALL do this, until everyone accepts the "USUAL" thing to be the EQUAL thing. Stop the Hogs, change your game for better, have fun doing it. Don't let barbs/clerics with this atitude anywhere near mats, drop out of factions that suport unfair mat distribution. PK till you get your way, carebears you... ks or something, spill the tea and steal cookies? This is a problem which exclusively concerns the playerbase so revolt and change it. Come on DDs you all know you would love to hear barbs/clerics qqing over this, don't stop till they agree to JUSTICE FOR ALL.
Not sure if you're just trying to incite people to action here, but there's a reason why there aren't that many barbs on all servers! They take WAY more time and money to level up than people who can 3-4 shot mobs from a distance...you make it sound like every barb and cleric are money hoarders.
Stealing mats is really a horrible suggestion--you have DDs start doing it as some sort of revolt and then you don't expect anyone else to follow this pattern? There's so little trust in this game as it is. I'd rather not have people stealing left and right "to prove a point".
It's simple, people. If you want better picks of the mats, sub the TT. Then you are coming to roughly the same expenditures that a barb or cleric has on a run, and then you can have your pick.
And maybe next time, consider trying to call mats beforehand? In every pick up squad I've been in, if someone says "I want x mat please for my armour" the request is usually fulfilled. If you're squadding with friends this should be easier too--use a need before greed system and everyone walks away relatively happy.
Some observations:
-every wizard i've been with in a TT has meditated during bosses. Just in my experience, if you can afford to meditate without causing a party wipe, then you probably shouldn't get first pick of drops.
-a cleric using a mp charm will exceed the cost of every other class on a TT run, end of story. There is a solution for now-event pots. Charms are not smart anymore. But traditionally it's not uncommon to run TT at a loss.
-DD classes are good at grinding..go buy the mats if it's that urgent. TT runs won't be going anywhere; you can always do them for fun. I had to buy several of my mats due to the fact that I'd be losing too much money going on the actual runs.
-You will probably say that I am fine with the system only because I'm a cleric; I will say I have alts too. As do many other posters here.0 -
Learn to play your class, if you think being "rare" afords you anything then you really got it wrong... People should play a class because they like it, not because 12 year olds are more likely to squad you..
Why so much hating on your furry companions? Guess who had to tank those pesky bosses when we were all lower levels? That's right, us, Barbarians, with the help of our lovely clerics. You need General Wurlord, Drum, Soulbanisher? Unless you have a level 100 BM or Veno (the latter probably won't bother too much) you will need who? That's right, a Barbarian... weeeeee Barbarian complex.
PS: I'm just **** with you, chill. But I'm honestly telling the truth b:surrenderLike they say in my country:
When you are too smart, smartness eats you up.0 -
Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »Not sure if you're just trying to incite people to action here, but there's a reason why there aren't that many barbs on all servers! They take WAY more time and money to level up than people who can 3-4 shot mobs from a distance...you make it sound like every barb and cleric are money hoarders.
It's simple, people. If you want better picks of the mats, sub the TT. Then you are coming to roughly the same expenditures that a barb or cleric has on a run, and then you can have your pick.
Quoted for truth, thank you Rillien
EDIT: oooops double post my badLike they say in my country:
When you are too smart, smartness eats you up.0 -
There are too many posts for me to respond to all personaly.
I've always made sure barbs and clerics got paid extra for their costs, go back and read my posts that's never been an issue. Back when i was active i would get calls from people to run instances on a daily basis, and as much as i would love to flatter myself that it was because of skill (i am good at playing my class) a big part of it was that i was always fair.
If anyone in my faction needed mats i would always make sure they would pay non guildies their share (who more often than not, were clerics/barbs) and this was the main reason i could always count on being able to put together a squad at short notice. Everyone knew if i called, that doing a run meant they were guaranteed to get a part of whatever dropped. If we already had enough people i would always put it to a vote to invite someone else, because to me someone else always meant less loot to go around.
EVERYONE DOING A RUN DESERVES TO GET A PART OF THE LOOT.
I've seen wizzies save parties from wipes in TT by helping the cleric with healing or even sacrificing themselves so they could make an escape. BMs and archers can be a boon if played by the right people. There's no such thing as more "important" players once you've squaded. Barb (or veno when pulling) leads, and the cleric always gets to make decisions concerning bosses, but it's only because that's their job description.
And i've got nothing against barbs/clerics, in fact most of my best friends were clerics, i never called them for resses and always gave them mana recovery apos if i had them. What i'm against is someone getting "first pick" because of their class. And if a friend asks me to do a run for their mats i may be willing to do it for free, but he has to put the squad together and i won't call any of my friends because i won't ask them to do something for "free".
That's what being a friend means to me, looking out for the interest of the people who help me out, not asking for favors.0 -
10 pages and it can all be summurized with:
"It depends, just make sure everyone agrees to whatever method before the run starts"Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »You run the TT to help other members, not your wallet. Trash your greed its not wanted.
I wouldnt call giving whats needed to those who need it and splitting the rest greed. Im giving up part of my share to help someone, and still getting a bit for myself. You know... we all get something out of it. Why should I get nothing? Sounds to me like the greedy one is your guild bank.
Honestly you are pretty messed up in the head if you call wanting anything above nothing greed.0 -
I have to agree with the OP about charm costs. Having to pay repairs/charm shouldn't entitle you to a 2m mat while the rest get 500k drops. And for those clerics/barbs who think that's fair, admit it, if I went as a DD and payed you 200k or so charm cost to get first dibs on that 2m mat, you'd tell me to gtfo.0
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_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »I have to agree with the OP about charm costs. Having to pay repairs/charm shouldn't entitle you to a 2m mat while the rest get 500k drops. And for those clerics/barbs who think that's fair, admit it, if I went as a DD and payed you 200k or so charm cost to get first dibs on that 2m mat, you'd tell me to gtfo.
Actually...no, i wouldnt
if i had no social consciousness I wouldnt play "cleric" and just go for Veno (fast money and fast lvling). I enjoy squads and enjoy to help. So please dont make us sound like we are money making hoes. If i m trolling and spamming on forum...then i cant sleep and need a good laugh0 -
Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »I wouldnt call giving whats needed to those who need it and splitting the rest greed. Im giving up part of my share to help someone, and still getting a bit for myself. You know... we all get something out of it. Why should I get nothing? Sounds to me like the greedy one is your guild bank.
Honestly you are pretty messed up in the head if you call wanting anything above nothing greed.
It's actually quite simple.
You don't want to work that way, then dump the squad. Ask first. Don't like it, no one is forcing you to stay.
If I and my faction mates decide to make a TT run for mats for the bank - you don't have to join. We always say up front who were are making runs for, and where it's going.
There are plenty of players here, and plenty of factions, and plenty of factionless players. Pick one.
RedMenace
\don't understand the <spittle> involved in this thread
\\it's real easy to ask first, and even easier to drop the squad before it starts
\\\never been shy about dropping from a *cluster%#@&* squad before it startsA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
Robert A. Heinlein0 -
Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »It's actually quite simple.
You don't want to work that way, then dump the squad. Ask first. Don't like it, no one is forcing you to stay.
If I and my faction mates decide to make a TT run for mats for the bank - you don't have to join. We always say up front who were are making runs for, and where it's going.
There are plenty of players here, and plenty of factions, and plenty of factionless players. Pick one.
RedMenace
\don't understand the <spittle> involved in this thread
\\it's real easy to ask first, and even easier to drop the squad before it starts
\\\never been shy about dropping from a *cluster%#@&* squad before it starts
Yes, it is that simple.
You don't have to invite anyone outside of your faction if you're doing runs for your guild's bank.
RedMenace
/doesn't understand what the thread is about but insists on posting.
//apparently needs to lecture everyone he squads with on why he deserves drops.
///has no shame in being likely to throw a tantrum and quit a squad if he can't hold hands with guildies.0 -
_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »I have to agree with the OP about charm costs. Having to pay repairs/charm shouldn't entitle you to a 2m mat while the rest get 500k drops. And for those clerics/barbs who think that's fair, admit it, if I went as a DD and payed you 200k or so charm cost to get first dibs on that 2m mat, you'd tell me to gtfo.
Probably not...and if we went on the run specifically for your mat...it would be no problem at all.
Is it me, or do all the QQ'ers just squad randomly with whomever is available? That's how it seems. And if that's the case, the rules for drops should be discussed and agreed upon before the subber subs.
Do I have a barb complex? Yes, if that barb complex includes worrying about timing the cancels, keeping aggro from the rest of the squad-even the BM fist user 8 levels ahead of me that steals aggro every time his toon sneezes, and trying to maintain chi while FR and Devouring between Alacrity...all the while my gear is getting pounded.
So yeah, I've got the "barb complex" and I'm more than fair with TT drops. Does that make me rare? Hardly. I could be grinding for coin and exp instead of going in TT.
Oh and BTW, stealing drops-or not giving them to the banker would result in getting kicked from that TT party. Wouldn't matter if it was the tanker or the cleric or a DD that stole.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Lvl10XBarb
Lvl10XArcher
lvl10XAssassin0 -
/doesn't understand what the thread is about but insists on posting.
//apparently needs to lecture everyone he squads with on why he deserves drops.
///has no shame in being likely to throw a tantrum and quit a squad if he can't hold hands with guildies.
A problem you will *never* have from me on Heavens Tear, I can assure you.
Thanks for the heads up. Is that your in-game name? Are you on the HT server? I wanna write it down.
b:pleased
RedMenaceA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
Robert A. Heinlein0 -
This content has been removed.
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Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »A problem you will *never* have from me on Heavens Tear, I can assure you.
Thanks for the heads up. Is that your in-game name? Are you on the HT server? I wanna write it down.
b:pleased
RedMenace
LOL Are you gonna blacklist me from tea parties? Ofc it's not my "ingame-name" but don't worry, i'm not on your carebear server. Wish i was tho... or maybe i am, and will secretly work towards squading with you and stealing your TT mats. Watch out man, i could be anyone...0 -
if someone threads me or anyone elsein a squad unfair , i dont make much of drama. I just never squad with him again. Once my mold got stolen on my fb59 ...yes i say stolen since i do think all drops belongs to tabber (if you dont agree...please make another theard and flame me there lol) and i said this BM to kill the last boss and never ever show up in front of my face again. After i reached lvl74 i got again with him in a squad...guess who of us both got kicked
. What goes around, comes around. If i m trolling and spamming on forum...then i cant sleep and need a good laugh0 -
LOL Are you gonna blacklist me from tea parties? Ofc it's not my "ingame-name" but don't worry, i'm not on your carebear server. Wish i was tho... or maybe i am, and will secretly work towards squading with you and stealing your TT mats. Watch out man, i could be anyone...
Oh, heavens no.
I just want to make *absolutely sure* that my communist practices and complete naivete about the world I live in doesn't rub off somehow on *you*, or affect you in any way.
I have alts on other servers too, and certainly don't want to stain your Gaming Experience with my stupidity - I just wanted to know, so I could quickly log off when you were spotted.
Unfortunately, now I will be forced to not squad with anyone anymore, because
Watch out man, i could be anyone...
RedMenace
\still shivering a bit
\\not afraid to use his game name and server in this forum
\\\more slashies because it annoys you, ACA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
Robert A. Heinlein0 -
our faction operates the following practice for TT drops
Assigned Banker - after each boss drops (shards, skins etc) are collected by banker
At end of run the drops are picked by each team member in the following order:
Subber (provided Ultis) > Cleric > Tank > Rest By Level Descending
If someone needs a specific drop we usually agree beforehand that they take priority for that mat. Also everyone has a chance to sub a run, so they can get first pick no matter their level.
It works very well for us, with seldom any issues. If someone picks a mat someone else wanted, they are encouraged to make a deal so everyone ends up happy.
This might not work so well with pug squads, but if you have a regular group of people you squad with it might be a good solution.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
There is no place in a perfect world for double entendre!0 -
Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »
Unfortunately, now I will be forced to not squad with anyone anymore
RedMenace
\still shivering a bit
\\not afraid to use his game name and server in this forum
\\\more slashies because it annoys you, AC
I imagine celebrations will soon follow on HT...
RedMenace... He's a sad panda...
/oddly turned on by forum discussions b:shocked
//kind of a bully, confused when he can't use personal attacks instead of arguments
///admitedly posts with the purpose of annoying others0 -
yar so split by need seems to be the best system with whatever left over mats being sent to the banker. O.oI imagine celebrations will soon follow on HT...
RedMenace... He's a sad panda...
/oddly turned on by forum discussions b:shocked
//kind of a bully, confused when he can't use personal attacks instead of arguments
///admitedly posts with the purpose of annoying others
\is confoosed. o.o' forum discussions turn you on? DX wheres your the off button then? b:chuckle
\\agrees with the 2nd part, using your mind confooses you? me too!
\\\admitedly posts due to boredom.darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Lot of people think, that DD especially mages doesn't loose anything in TT runs. WRONG I have more than 13K mana pool, but for 1 boss in TT 2... I have to fill up this pool few times!! So How much mana I have to spend? There are thousand and thousand of mana on just 1!! boss. Also I have to repair all gear as another players of course not as many as barb.
But sad thing is, that I get drop mostly as last one. So I stopped to do TT run. Better way for me is sell 10$ of real bucks for 4M and buy what I need.b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
It's normally first pick for the subber.
The tank (whether it's a barb or veno and what bosses we are doing).
BB'ing cleric then support cleric if running with 2.
Then DD by level.
If we end up doing Belial in 2-3, then all his mats go to the guild bank and distributed to those that need them according to level and TT run activity (not going to give belial mats to those who don't work for them).Not motivated enough to make another PWI siggy0 -
LadyofReal - Heavens Tear wrote: »It's normally first pick for the subber.
The tank (whether it's a barb or veno and what bosses we are doing).
BB'ing cleric then support cleric if running with 2.
Then DD by level.
If we end up doing Belial in 2-3, then all his mats go to the guild bank and distributed to those that need them according to level and TT run activity (not going to give belial mats to those who don't work for them).
Yes, it's normally that, but it's hardly fair is it? I had seen attempts at extorsion form tank/healer classes before, but never this massive...0 -
I don't think there is anything wrong with it. If you're going in as anything but the subber you are going to help with the understand that they get the better drops. Honestly, if you want a good drop, sub the run yourself. Couldn't tell the amount of times I walked away with nothing, not even mirages, and paid about 30-50k in repairs.Not motivated enough to make another PWI siggy0
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The support cleric is what really gets me. I understand the rational behind a tank/cleric (even if I've already proven the intention isn't met with the rule, the way things are) but following the logic of costs, why is a support cleric so high? They're less damage than a veno/wizard/archer, hold back further because they want to be ready heal, and 90% of the time don't bother to debuff (atleast the one's I've seen). What warrants them above someone who does their job properly, contributes to the groups success, and actually increases the success rate of the squad?
Even if you go by the philosophy of rewarding based on how vital the job is to the squad... support cleric is below dd's, so why is their pick above them?0 -
The problem is that reward based philosophy... it's kinda like watching a 6 year old tell his classmates they can't play with his toys unless they let him win. Seriously...0
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Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »The support cleric is what really gets me. I understand the rational behind a tank/cleric (even if I've already proven the intention isn't met with the rule, the way things are) but following the logic of costs, why is a support cleric so high? They're less damage than a veno/wizard/archer, hold back further because they want to be ready heal, and 90% of the time don't bother to debuff (atleast the one's I've seen). What warrants them above someone who does their job properly, contributes to the groups success, and actually increases the success rate of the squad?
Even if you go by the philosophy of rewarding based on how vital the job is to the squad... support cleric is below dd's, so why is their pick above them?
I agree. The cleric's job is heal other and do supportive parts. My job is deal huge damage. I don't understand also why is cleric so high in this hierarchy. I'm spending more mana than cleric I can bet with anyone.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
To be honest, I'm not so sure about the support cleric myself, but it's been months since I actually did a TT run with 2 clerics. Who needs a second cleric when you have a level 100 one?Not motivated enough to make another PWI siggy0
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